Please explain to me why eliminating APs make business sense for Disney? And the business case for Floridians to have a discounted AP?

[Artemis Fowl]

I've read many of the threads on here about APs. My family has never had them because we're any every other year kind of WDW family. I've always thought I'd need to go at least twice just to break even on park tickets vs. APs, but I feel like we spend a fortune while we're there. Disney certainly makes more off of us in food and drink than they do with out park tickets. It seems to me, even as a resale DVC member, they'd want me coming more often. I just don't get why they stoppped selling them?

Second question, if they're trying to maximize profits per guest per visit (seems to be their stated goal), then why continue to offer Florida resident passes? These seem like the group most likely able to spend the least per visit. (I know FL residents spend a lot, please don't be offended and I'm not asking for a discussion on this point which is why I said "able to spend less")

It seems to me the most profitable move would be to offer the AP at a price point that brought out-of-state travelers back two or three times per year for several days at a time compared to Floridians' weekly or monthly visits for a few hours?

What am I missing here?

 

[Tamar]

Have you seen that AP holders are suing Disney over the reservation system and claiming that they are being shut out of days they want to use their AP? I am guessing this is a big factor.

 

[earfulofmagic]

I just don't get why they stoppped selling them?

There is the public statement by Chapek (the "family from Denver" story lol). But he has also said (non-publicly, I think) that if hotels still fill up with people still buying park tickets, they do not have a reason to sell APs. Friend works in corporate.

No comment on the Floridian APs. I assume that's partially to do with maintaining a good relationship with the local community, and a safety cushion (remember when travel was frowned upon/people were hesitant to travel?), among other things.

 

[Sandisw]

It seems like they would want them...even coming out with specials for AP holders (like the current shopDisney discount for the rest of this month on certain items)...but obviously, they feel they can still get guests into the parks without them.

I am really surprised they never went back on sale this year, but maybe they are waiting for the lawsuit to go further...although, when the started up the Keys program for DL, they amended the language to be pretty clear that they do indeed have buckets and that the AP bucket for reservations can be filled, and not the ticket bucket, and that does not violate the terms of the pass (the essence of the lawsuit).

 

[BrianLa]

Have you seen that AP holders are suing Disney over the reservation system and claiming that they are being shut out of days they want to use their AP? I am guessing this is a big factor.

Even more of a reason to sell to out of staters who are likely to book a multi day hotel stay months in advance rather than locals that plan a few days in advance. As Sandisw stated, they are trying to have a more favorable (higher spenders) attendance mix at the parks. The lawsuits are brought by locals who look a week out and see no APs Park Passes available but passes available for hotel and non-AP guests.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I think "the lawsuit" gives us a nice excuse to add what looks on the surface to be a reason that lets us try to rationalize all of it. At the end of the day, I doubt it's in play at all from Disney's business perspective. Besides, the lawsuit as originally filed anyway, was about CA only.

The answer is so simple, but nobody wants to see/admit it. Disney is having no problem filling up the parks to capacity virtually every day, even during the typically down season; at full retail+. There is absolutely no incentive for them to change course with APs at this point. It is what it is.

 

[DLgal]

It seems like they would want them...even coming out with specials for AP holders (like the current shopDisney discount for the rest of this month on certain items)...but obviously, they feel they can still get guests into the parks without them.

I am really surprised they never went back on sale this year, but maybe they are waiting for the lawsuit to go further...although, when the started up the Keys program for DL, they amended the language to be pretty clear that they do indeed have buckets and that the AP bucket for reservations can be filled, and not the ticket bucket, and that does not violate the terms of the pass (the essence of the lawsuit).

They didn’t add that language until AFTER the lawsuit, in August 2022, when they unveiled the "new" passes available for renewal.

This WDW lawsuit dates back to 2021, same time frame that the Dream Key lawsuit covers.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

I think "the lawsuit" gives us a nice excuse to add what looks on the surface to be a reason that lets us try to rationalize all of it. At the end of the day, I doubt it's in play at all from Disney's business perspective. Besides, the lawsuit as originally filed anyway, was about CA only.

The answer is so simple, but nobody wants to see/admit it. Disney is having no problem filling up the parks to capacity virtually every day, even during the typically down season; at full retail+. There is absolutely no incentive for them to change course with APs at this point. It is what it is.

That doesn’t explain the Florida discount. It would make more sense for them to offer it to everyone at $1000 than to Floridians at a discount and me not at all.

If out of towners were willing to pay that, it seems like that’d be more profitable than the Florida AP.

If my family had an AP, Disney would likely get a second trip out of us each year and all the money we spend. I can’t imagine us going more than twice. I understand why they’re not interested in an AP holders tenth trip of the year. The margins on my trip have to be comparable to many families once a decade trip.

I really don’t get why this makes sense for them.

 

[HashberryOTG]

The Florida AP was a requirement for some of the tax breaks or other types of perks from state and local governments that Disney receives. Who knows what will happen with that in the future.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

The Florida AP was a requirement for some of the tax breaks or other types of perks from state and local governments that Disney receives. Who knows what will happen with that in the future.

That is something I definitely did not know and hadn’t considered.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Disney has ridiculous amounts of data that tell them day visitors spend more in the parks on average than AP guests. Chapek doesn't even try to hide the fact that they prefer a "more favorable mix" of guests in the parks. If the parks and hotels are filling up, he'd rather it be with day guests.

I think AP guests like you, who take 2 or 3 trips a year, probably skew toward the higher side of spending. People who are more local and go multiple days per month but don't care about merch or eating much in the parks, are they wish would go away.

He'd probably love to never sell APs again, but I don't see how they can be the only major theme parks in the world with no APs for that much longer, especially with Universal right next door. So eventually they'll come back, probably in a form more favorable for Disney. Higher priced, more restrictive with blackout dates, etc.

 

[DebbieB]

There is no longer a Florida Resident discount or DVC on the top pass with no blackouts. When it switched from Platinum to Incredipass, it was eliminated. Was about $400 off before. They do have cheaper passes available with varying blackout dates. DVC can get Sorcerer, Pirate and Pixie Dust are just Florida Resident.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'm a DL Inspire Key holder (renewed from Dream Key in August). I've been in the parks 5 times (4 times in DL and 1 time in DCA) since I renewed 6 weeks ago. I know on three of those trips, that were in the evening and mainly for MSEP and WOC, I spent less than $15, and on one other it was maybe $30 (ate at Docking Bay 7 then turned around and went to Bengal BBQ as well, I was hungry). The last trip I spent considerably more because I grabbed some merch (that I could have probably bought in WOD anyway).

By contrast, my last trip to WDW in September, I spent about 30 times that amount (with the caveat that there were 3 or us, not just me) over just 4 days (only 2 full park days).

 

[The Jackal]

Have you seen that AP holders are suing Disney over the reservation system and claiming that they are being shut out of days they want to use their AP? I am guessing this is a big factor.

Yes in California at Disneyland there was a lawsuit. Guess what they have AP’s for purchase out there. Where they are not available is where they are celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the MK. There was pent up demand for WDW for a few years and they are riding on that forcing people to buy tickets to increase revenue. The 50th celebration was a dud, the 40th celebration of Epcot didn’t even happen. At some point it will end, but will the old AP people go back after being treated the way they have? I’m not sure if Disney even realizes that Universal is building another theme park. If you saw or heard of anything from D23, it doesn’t sound like they have yet. DL and DCA survive on AP guest. WDW is a world wide destination and most people have to buy tickets, AP’s don’t make sense for them. Disney also offers a much longer cheaper pass to European guests, than the 10 day pass they offer to everyone.

 

[Sandisw]

They didn’t add that language until AFTER the lawsuit, in August 2022, when they unveiled the "new" passes available for renewal.

This WDW lawsuit dates back to 2021, same time frame that the Dream Key lawsuit covers.

I know the language was added after..but once done, it is still surprising that they haven’t opened sales.

 

[DL1WDW2]

I think Disney executives are currently on WDW property but truly wonder if they are “ staying “ on property Haha. And taking the busses and walking the parking lots without the tram service!
Hope they can get a dining reservation .

 

[CarolMN]

The Florida AP was a requirement for some of the tax breaks or other types of perks from state and local governments that Disney receives. Who knows what will happen with that in the future.

That is something I definitely did not know and hadn’t considered.

Many believe this to be true, but I am not so sure. I have not been able to find any legitimate source for this statement. To the best of my knowledge, it is not true.

IMO, Disney offers Florida resident discounts for the same reason they offer any discount - to encourage purchase of something that would otherwise go unpurchased. IOW, to increase their revenue. Currently, Disney is filling the parks without discounting tickets beyond what they already do.

 

[artesian]

I think "the lawsuit" gives us a nice excuse to add what looks on the surface to be a reason that lets us try to rationalize all of it. At the end of the day, I doubt it's in play at all from Disney's business perspective. Besides, the lawsuit as originally filed anyway, was about CA only.

The answer is so simple, but nobody wants to see/admit it. Disney is having no problem filling up the parks to capacity virtually every day, even during the typically down season; at full retail+. There is absolutely no incentive for them to change course with APs at this point. It is what it is.

This x10000000

My view it's a pure cash grab. Why bring them back if you're making bank charging for daily passes and still having no issues filling the parks. I'm going to EP Sunday and cost me $144 for the day.
I'm still convinced that mid 2023 the pent up demand and the 50th being done is when we will see things start to turn. Until that actually happens they are under the thought why bother let's maximize profits.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

The answer is so simple, but nobody wants to see/admit it. Disney is having no problem filling up the parks to capacity virtually every day, even during the typically down season; at full retail+. There is absolutely no incentive for them to change course with APs at this point. It is what it is.

This is it. It's hard to believe when you go there, but they really don't want their parks to be packed to the gills right now. They want a smaller number of bigger spenders to not only increase profits, but also protect the brand.

The fact is that APs get a huge discount on entry. You may think you still spend a lot, but Disney knows that all of your spirit Jerseys don't make up for the highly subsidized park entry of AP holders when considering the amount of space we take up in the parks. They froze the program and as we all saw, they still had no problem drawing a crowd and making record profits. It's a short-sighted approach I think, but management isn't incenticized to care about 10 years from now. They will all be gone. Nature of the beast.

As for the Florida AP's, I'm pretty confident that's a political program. Disney has to play ball with the state, as we've all re-learned over the past year. They still protect their gate entries by slapping plentiful blackout dates on those passes (if there's an unexpected slow-time, you can always throw a bone to the locals to keep you afloat until high tide returns).

 

[CalOilerGurl]

I've read many of the threads on here about APs. My family has never had them because we're any every other year kind of WDW family. I've always thought I'd need to go at least twice just to break even on park tickets vs. APs, but I feel like we spend a fortune while we're there. Disney certainly makes more off of us in food and drink than they do with out park tickets. It seems to me, even as a resale DVC member, they'd want me coming more often. I just don't get why they stoppped selling them?

Second question, if they're trying to maximize profits per guest per visit (seems to be their stated goal), then why continue to offer Florida resident passes? These seem like the group most likely able to spend the least per visit. (I know FL residents spend a lot, please don't be offended and I'm not asking for a discussion on this point which is why I said "able to spend less")

It seems to me the most profitable move would be to offer the AP at a price point that brought out-of-state travelers back two or three times per year for several days at a time compared to Floridians' weekly or monthly visits for a few hours?

What am I missing here?

I am TOTALLY with you - this makes no fiscal sense in their currently stated objectives of getting "higher spending" guests into the parks. Coming from out of State, I am going to spend $$$ on meals, merch etc. Without an AP, I am doing this once per year. With an AP, I would be doing this MORE than once a year so my spend per guest factor is multiplied. They simply don't want this revenue I guess...