~Philadelphia Marathon 11/23/08~

[Optimator]

I'll go to the gym & get angry at the people holding up machines b/c they're batting their eyelashes & flipping their hair annoyingly @ men wearing wife-beater t-shirts, while their kids are in the filthy daycare bawling their eyes out 'cause they've been watching Nickelodeon for 4 hours

1. Hi Little Miss Sunshine

2. What's a "wife-beater t-shirt"?

3. My kids would be thrilled to get to watch Nickelodeon for 4 hours.

4. Don't talk about the chickies flipping their hair. You my make Cindy jealous of the flippability.


Colleen - 45 year old mid-life crisis sufferers? Easy there.


Cindy - Sleeping in is much more valuable than XT at this stage of the game.


Nothing for me to report. Rest day yesterday, 7 miles later today (unless my almost 45 year old mid-life crisis ends and I decide that this whole running thing truly is stupid).

 

[Theta]

Colleen - 45 year old mid-life crisis sufferers? Easy there.


.

Mike, not us! We still have a few more years, right, right!

 

[rKyDeX]

I'm glad that I've already got my 45 year old mid-life crisis out of the way. You darn young whippersnappers!

Chester
W.I.S.H. Half-Fast Geezer in Training Marathon Team

 

[Optimator]

Chester - With your caveman lineage, "mid-life" may be hard to define.

Colleen - No young lady, we still have a long way to go!


Everybody else on vacation? Computer virus? Internet Nazis at work? Don't like us anymore??


I did my 7 miles this evening. My feet/calves/achilles were quite uncomfortable for the first 4 or 5 miles. Then I realized what the problem was. I ordered new shoes today from Runningwarehouse.com (gotta love the 15% WISH discount). I guess my current shoes must have figure it out and were giving me grief.

Sooo, I had a little talk with them as I ran. You know, "It's really O.K.. You've been there for me through my first Disney Marathon, through training for and running my PR a few weeks ago. You've earned a break. I'll still rotate you in once or twice a week. I promise." Just the normal shoe talk. Things calmed down after that and we ran just fine for the last couple of miles.

Me thinks I'm suffering taper madness by proxy for Jodi .

 

[Jodi]

Mike - Hey, I'm here! I though taper meant taper everything having to do with running so I'm trying to limit my posts! I'm glad your conversation with the shoes went well...but FYI, if your undies start to act up at all (stinking & stuff) a talk with them won't do, you need to change them. NICE RUN.

You bring up a good point about the mid-life-crisis phenomena...does anyone here think that you'll wake up one morning & just say "I'm done running"? (I do this each morning).
Mike, imagine you're back in the 80's & there's a guy driving an IROC-Z with black, slicked back hair & a comb sticking out of his back pocket...his name is Vinny & his jeans look painted on...he's the one that's wearing a wife-beater t-shirt... got it?

Colleen - Are you in Boston yet?? How's DH? Nervous at all?

Chester - Nice to know you're still alive, when are you leaving for Minnie?

Cindy - Have you left work yet from yesterday? Any running?

What time does your guys' run start on Sat???

Foot's ok, I'm going to run a few miles today & see how it goes. My gut's in knots thinking about Sun...I hope they're providing enough TP for JodiStops...that wasn't on his list with the soda?

Anyone else got their room or signed up for Philly?

 

[AmyBeth68]

Hi guys...popping in to say a quick "hi".

Jodi: Foot pain??? Me too!!! I'm not sure what's up with mine...it hurts on the bottom of my foot more towards the inside. Been there now for a while. I've been practicing my chi running and everything was great until this week. Did my 10 miler and it was the worst freakin' run I've ever had. Anyway...wonder if you figured out what may have caused your foot pain? My first thought is I need to switch to newer sneakers...even though mine aren't terribly old (prob 150 miles). Anyway...just wanted to see what your thoughts were. BTW...your assessment of the gym was HILARIOUS...living in gyms as I do have to say you've got it spot on LOL!

Mike: You with the foot pain too? Wow! What's up with that. Also...quick question for you. If I remember correctly you used Smart Coach from Runner's world. Did you actually run your long runs at the slower mpm they recommend? I know they have us running at 60 seconds slower than tempo which is kind of hard to swallow for me. Your race was so outstanding...so I'm wondering if you followed their advice or ran your LRs at a faster pace.

Cindy: Wanted to congratulate you on your 8K last weekend. Great pace on those hills!

 

[CynthiaCindy]

I'm here too. I'm feeling kind of run down - I think I need more sleep. Just a thought, but I'm guessing the number of hours I sleep in a week should be higher than the the number of miles I run that same week - that didn't happen last week. So, I'm trying to do better and focus more at work, so can get out of here earlier and get home earlier and get to bed earlier. Unfortunately, that means trying to stay away from the boards. I'm sure this won't last long. I have the attention span of a three year old.

Jodi - our race is also on Sunday, so we'll all be running at the same time. You'll just be running for a little longer. Maybe you could stash TP in strategic places. Leaves could also work.

Sara - I hope all goes well with the MRI today.

Mike - It's when the shoes talk back that you need to worry.

Ran 5 yesterday morning and 7 this morning.

 

[CynthiaCindy]

Amy - Hi and thanks for the congratulations. I hope your foot feels better!

I'm not Mike, but I'll offer my opinion on the slower long runs. I always run my long runs very slowly. I ran the National Half at an average pace of 9:15, but my long runs were at an average pace of around 10:30 (and some were slower). I followed a Runners World Ryan Hall training program for the half - It said to do your long runs 60-90 seconds slower than race pace. I think it works - as long as you are doing some other fast running during the week. I felt more prepared for the National Half than I have for any other race, and I think I ran the best race possible for me.

 

[Jodi]

Cindy - You NEED to sleep, woman. Seriously, ask my family, sleep is sooo important . Ah, you run Sunday, too! What time do you guys start? I start @ 7:30 & hope that I'll be able to get to work in time for Mon. a.m.

Amy - Hey, how ya been? OK, what's up with the foot crap? I woke up Sun. a.m. & out of the blue just off the side of the ball of my foot has pain . I've been soaking it & massaging it & it seems to be loosening up a bit, who knows? I'm going to get pins stuck in it tomorrow, so we'll see. Either way, I'll just dope up b4 my run & all will be fine!

 

[AmyBeth68]

Cindy..

THANK YOU for the reply regarding the slower LRs. OK...gonna' bug you know with more questions (sorry in advance)..

Did you add speed work into your weekly training? Or simply just tempo runs?

Also...how many runs per week during training?

My body is just not totally in love with running. So I have swapped out some runs for XT the past year. Anyway...You and I seem pretty similar in pace during training so I'd love to learn from your success in the races. My goal is to run Philly half in the low 9's and hopefully put in a good showing at goofy but with no time goals actually. I really just want to get back to enjoying the runs...and slowing down the LR pace may be the ticket. Currently I run an easy run early in the week, speed work later in the week (tempo, hill repeats or speed drills) and then the LR. But I've been pushing the pace into the low to mid 9's during LR and my body is NOT happy.

Thanks Cindy...and that pace for National was outstanding!....and sorry PMers for hijacking .

 

[AmyBeth68]

Jodi...gonna' be thinking about you this weekend!!! You are such the uber-extreme runner girl. Truly...take care of yourself out there and good luck with the potty stops (this from someone who has the SAME stomach issues during long runs). I think I lost 10 minutes off my marathon time this year due to porta-potty breaks . BTW...have you found any gels that don't bother your stomach? Is it related to fueling during the run???

 

[Jodi]

Jodi...gonna' be thinking about you this weekend!!! You are such the uber-extreme runner girl. Truly...take care of yourself out there and good luck with the potty stops (this from someone who has the SAME stomach issues during long runs). I think I lost 10 minutes off my marathon time this year due to porta-potty breaks . BTW...have you found any gels that don't bother your stomach? Is it related to fueling during the run???

Amy - I think my stomach is an a** & that's why I have problems...nothing to do with fueling. I use Crank E-gels (or something like that) & they've served me well. I also chew on those jellybean thingies if it's really hot. I spent a fair amount of time during this year's marathon waiting in a porta-potty line @ around mile 12...and as I'm sure you're aware, EVERYONE @ that stage of the game is having the same issues . I've given up worrying about whether or not I may need to stop - I just carry TP with me if I'm going out more than 6 miles or so . I've found that leaves are helpful, but depending on the time of year, they can be awfully brittle & that leads to yucky possibilities And I'm not really an uber-runner, I just have serious issues (obviously) & apparently I'm trying to validate myself with running long distances

 

[msblrobs]

Rest day yesterday, 7 miles later today (unless my almost 45 year old mid-life crisis ends and I decide that this whole running thing truly is stupid).

Had the MRI early this morning but unfortunately after 4 days of traveling and not getting home until after 11:00 last night I am incapable of posting coherently right now. I promise to catch up after I get some sleep this afternoon . My kids are on break this week so I am leaving work @ noon to hang with them since they haven't seen me in a bit .

 

[Jodi]

Sara - Welcome HOME!! Did the MRI-tech give you any info about anything?

 

[Theta]

Sara - Welcome HOME!! Did the MRI-tech give you any info about anything?

My MRI tech was ooing and awing and saying things like, "oh, my..." so when she took me by the arm and helped me down the flight of stairs, I knew it wasn't good.

for good news Sara!

Not in Boston yet, leaving Saturday morning. Yes, we are very excited. The pollen here in NC is really kickin' DH's a**, as soon as he walks in the door after work he jumps in the shower, then he puts cold cloths on his eyes and crashes on the couch. For some reason, his body's reaction to his allergies really fatigues him. Hopefully once we get up to Boston he will have relief for a few days before the marathon Monday.

Hi Amy!

Jodi, to you this weekend.

Off for a walk and maybe some miles on the bike.

 

[CynthiaCindy]

Cindy Ah, you run Sunday, too! What time do you guys start?

We start at 8:30

Cindy..

THANK YOU for the reply regarding the slower LRs. OK...gonna' bug you know with more questions (sorry in advance)..

Did you add speed work into your weekly training? Or simply just tempo runs?

Also...how many runs per week during training?

My body is just not totally in love with running. So I have swapped out some runs for XT the past year. Anyway...You and I seem pretty similar in pace during training so I'd love to learn from your success in the races. My goal is to run Philly half in the low 9's and hopefully put in a good showing at goofy but with no time goals actually. I really just want to get back to enjoying the runs...and slowing down the LR pace may be the ticket. Currently I run an easy run early in the week, speed work later in the week (tempo, hill repeats or speed drills) and then the LR. But I've been pushing the pace into the low to mid 9's during LR and my body is NOT happy.

Thanks Cindy...and that pace for National was outstanding!....and sorry PMers for hijacking .

Seriously Amy, don't apologize. You take so much time to give such great advice to everyone on the boards, if any information I can provide can help you out, I'm happy to give it. Ask all the questions that you want

Here are the links to the schedule that I followed:
http://www.runnersworld.com/charts/hallchart.html
http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244-258-12006-0,00.html

I followed the long program and did not do any of the optional days, so I ran 4 times a week and did no cross training (actually, that's probably not entirely true - I may have done 1 or 2 days of cross training during the entire 10 weeks). I also cut a mile off some of the moderate tempo runs. For the easy run days, I always ran 4 miles and those runs were also at a pace of slower than 10 minute miles.

This was only the second training schedule that I've used that had any speedwork or tempo runs (the first was for the Cherry Blossom 10 Miler last year - I used Smart Coach and I think that had speed work and tempo runs on alternating weeks). When training for the MCM, I ran 4 days a week, all easy, no cross training.

I was nervous about doing both speedwork and tempo runs in the same week, but it wasn't as bad as I thought, although some of the tempo runs (even with reduced mileage) were kind of rough. I have some issues with my knees, but nothing was made worse using that plan.

If you have any other questions - please ask! I'd be happy to answer!

ETA: I should also mention that I always did the Tuesday speedwork a little faster than suggested and I used 8:22 as my 5-k pace (which is accurate) and 8:40 as my 10-k pace (that is the equivalent 10-k pace based on my 5-k pace - I've never actually run a 10k even close to that fast).

 

[Optimator]

Mike: You with the foot pain too? Wow! What's up with that. Also...quick question for you. If I remember correctly you used Smart Coach from Runner's world. Did you actually run your long runs at the slower mpm they recommend? I know they have us running at 60 seconds slower than tempo which is kind of hard to swallow for me. Your race was so outstanding...so I'm wondering if you followed their advice or ran your LRs at a faster pace.

Hey Amy - Good to see you again. I just haven't had the time to bee-bop on all the other threads to see what's up with everyone.

I did use and am currently using the Smart Coach plan. I like the mileage breakdown and the 4 day running plan meshes well with my current life/schedule.

To answer (long answer) your question about LR pace: I previously had run almost all my runs, short or long, somewhere in the 7:50 to 8:10 pace. The Smart Coach plan called for most of the runs around 9:20 or so to start . The first couple of weeks I really concentrated on slowing down. It was good and bad. Good in that it really took a lot of pressure off. I didn't feel I had to go sub-8 every day. Bad in that I never really did make it quite that slow and also bad because the 7:55 tempo runs seemed extra hard all of a sudden .

As the weeks went on I settled on a nice comfortable compromise pace of around 8:30 for LR's, a little quicker for the shorties, and the Smart Coach suggested pace for the Tempo's and Speed work runs.

Come race day, I really wanted sub 4 hours. I figured I'd run around 8:15's for as long as I could then struggle to the end. I ran a little quicker than planned for most of the first 2/3 but pleased to be able to sustain a decent pace pretty much through the end with only 2 of the miles in the 9 mpm.

The moral of the story is I've done 4 marathons so far. I've trained faster, slower, and somewhere in between. My first one was only 23 seconds slower than my last one, so I haven't really learned much other than every race is different and there are too many variables for me to figure out the secret!

Just one last thing, my current Smart Coach plan is an quick 6 week plan. I've been running most of my miles back in the 7:50 - 8 mpm range (for no good reason) but it's nice to have a slower pace posted on the refrigerator just in case I'm not feeling it. I can coast a bit and not feel like a total failure.

Holy Crap!! I do like to hear the sound of my own voice, don't I?

Sorry for the rambling. I need to take the Reader's Digest Condensed Version school for verbose posters.

 

[lourodrigis]

Colleen - Have fun in Boston this weekend! The pollen is just starting to kick here in NJ. I have the same reaction to allergies (fatigue). Not good for people that like to run outside.

Jodi - Best of luck on the ultra. Bring some extra TP so you can avoid those leaves.

Cindy - Are you or DH a Washington Capitals fan? I saw the team in Philly on Monday waiting on their bus outside of the Four Seasons hotel. There were 3 Caps fans waiting for them to get off the bus to sign autographs. Not much of a welcome.

Lets go FLYERS! It would be nice to get a win tonight.

Amy, Mike, Chester, and everyone else - HI!

I got in 2 4-mile runs this week as I am in a mini-taper for the 20K this Sunday. The weather here has been AWESOME this week. Cool and dry. I was in Philly on Monday and it was incredible. I walked past the Embassy Suites on my way to the Art Museum (which is where I park when I am in town). The Spring flowers and trees were very colorful. I got a little fired up about the Marathon even though it it 6+ months away. Monday would have been a perfect day for a marathon.

Does anyone plan to stay in Philly for more than Saturday night for the marathon?

Lou

 

[CynthiaCindy]

Cindy - Are you or DH a Washington Capitals fan? I saw the team in Philly on Monday waiting on their bus outside of the Four Seasons hotel. There were 3 Caps fans waiting for them to get off the bus to sign autographs. Not much of a welcome.

No, I'm not really into hockey and neither is DH. The year before the strike I did go to around 10 games because I had a friend who had season tickets and she alwasy asked me to go with her. The games were always pretty empty.

Does anyone plan to stay in Philly for more than Saturday night for the marathon?

I forgot to mention that I did reserve a room at the Embassy Suites a few days ago. The rate was $179 (apparently, its $169 for one person, but $179 for two, which I find annoying). I booked it for both Saturday and Sunday night. I figured it would be nice to not have to worry about rushing to check out after the race and driving back the same night. We'll just stay over Sunday and drive back Monday after rush hour and go into work a little late.

Ran 5 miles this morning. I still haven't figured out what my plan is for the half on Sunday. I can't decide if I should try to really race it or just do it as a slightly faster than normal training run

I also just registered for the Army 10 Miler for October.

 

[Jodi]

What up in the McPhilly dog pound?

Cindy - Jeez Louise, I thought I ran a lot of races...you're just a fillin-out-entry-forms-fool! You go girl ! Nice way to get the run in this a.m. Those early a.m. runs are the best for me, too bad I haven't done one is a few months . Listen, just run fun-like for your 1/2 on Sun. You don't wanna push it & hurt yourself or something, try & enjoy the race & maybe leave the watch/garmin @ home? Thanks for the tip on the Embassy Suites, I'll be sure & tell them that there's only going to be one person in the room .

Lou - You too with all the races . Here's hoping for continued nice weather for your 20k! . I plan on staying over Sat. night for the Philly... Sun. will be a mad dash for the airport! Sorry the allergies are acting up...any luck w/ the honey theory or Quercitin? I will warn you to be patient if you go the homeopathic route; these things tend to take a few days/weeks to kick in. Good luck. BTW, DH will be standing on the sidelines with a roll of TP around his wrist for yours truly!

Colleen - Tell your DH that I am sending mega his way for the race on Mon.!! He must be so excited!! You, too! The kids are going to like Boston a lot I think. Are you going to check out the Olympic trials on Sun.? Oh, & tell Lance to chill, I'll return his call next week sometime, I've been busy .

Mike - I guess I'm going to have to check this smart coach crap out, huh? You & Cindy have both had good luck with it. Hey, any training plan that says slow down sounds like a good one to me! Tell Kathy to stop by the boards before she leaves for Minnie so I can wish her good luck! What is your strategy for the run Sun??

Sara - Hey, wench . Any running today? How're you feeling? Are you still doing the Lake Placid gig? I don't think I'll be able to make it up for that, gas being $3.50 a gallon & all . Any other races on your horizon?

Speaking of which, has anyone entered the lottery for the NYC 1/2 or full? or am I the only tool...again.

So I ran for a little while yesterday & it actually seemed to work the kink out of my foot...sorta. Who knows?