Pete's rants for 8/05/09

[kbelle8995]

I began listening to the podcast because the podcasts are funny, informative and honest. My sister and I have been visiting WDW since the year it opened and both worked for the company for a brief time.

Pete, Kevin, John and the rest of the crew talk about Disney the way we do. It's their podcast and they can talk about whatever they want. They've been in business for awhile now and are doing just fine.

I love Pete's honesty, when he believe it's a good thing he says so and when he sees something bad he says the same thing. He calls a spade a spade. I cherish that honesty. If you want positivety about Disney, go to Disney they do a great job being their own cheerleader.

So to Pete, Kevin, John and the rest of the team, you keep on keepin on, you have a fabulous podcast.

 

[DVCsince02]

Actually I have stopped listening to the e-mail shows, they seem to only have questions and replies to facebook friends for some shows and DIS cruisers. Just a lot of inside stuff that doesn't apply to 99% of the listeners. You know, the 'cliques' that really are not there.

So here you say you stopped listening.

Per Kevin's and John's request I will no longer listen to the show, it truly is the DU team's loss.

And here you say you stopped listening per their request.



Rich, let me spell it out for you because John and Kevin are trying to be nice and I don't need to be.

GO AWAY! DON'T COME BACK!

I have seen your nasty comments for far too long.


I'd now like to remind everyone about the "Ignore" function on the DIS. Click the user name, then go to their profile. Click Ignore.

 

[Dodie]

I'd now like to remind everyone about the "Ignore" function on the DIS. Click the user name, then go to their profile. Click Ignore.

 

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

So here you say you stopped listening.



And here you say you stopped listening per their request.



Rich, let me spell it out for you because John and Kevin are trying to be nice and I don't need to be.

GO AWAY! DON'T COME BACK!

I have seen your nasty comments for far too long.


I'd now like to remind everyone about the "Ignore" function on the DIS. Click the user name, then go to their profile. Click Ignore.

BRAVO

I for one have had enough of the bickering. This is our happy place.

 

[TSWJan78]

i don't always agree with Pete, though i often do.

In this case, i totally agreed with Pete's rant. Agreed with him 1000%. A million percent.

A person who is appropriately skilled to be the head of HR is typically NOT appropriately skilled to run a company. They are two entirely different fields of expertise.

(i'm not even going to get into why heads of HR - and corporate communication for that matter - are usually women - having to do with window dressing and the need for the appearance of a skirt in senior management.).

Over the course of my career, i've had the great misfortune of being around far too many corporate boardrooms, and there is no way any of the HR heads I've worked with could EVER have run the companies they were at. They might have been good at HR (though unfortunately, many of them weren't even good at that), but they certainly did not have the knowledge or experience to run a multi-million dollar organization.

I am not up on Meg, her background or her leadership skills. I agree 100% that the decisions she has made have not been the smartest and I would love to see someone else heading up my favorite place in the world but please be careful with generalizations. Remember Lee is an amazing man and started as a banquet server and did wonderful things for this company.. you would never hear anyone say that a banquet server should not run WDW

 

[Brian Noble]

So you are willing to pay more to eat at Olive Garden on a Saturday night then you are on a Tuesday night?

Supply and demand is not about one person being willing to pay different prices at different times. It's about the willingness of *groups* to pay prices.

It works something like this.

* There are X people who want to eat out on Tuesday. There are Y people who want to eat out on Saturday. Y > X.
* At price P, some fraction p would be willing to eat at Olive Garden. At some other price Q, (Q>P), some smaller fraction q (q<p) would be willing to eat at Olive Garden.
* Ideally, qY == pX == the capacity of Olive Garden.

If the price is the same (lower) price both nights, then the demand is pX on Tuesday, for a full restaurant, but pY on Saturday, with lots of unhappy guests who are waiting too long for a table or told they must leave. If the price is the same (higher) price both nights, then the demand is qY on Saturday, for a full restaurant, but qX on Tuesday, for a really slow night.

Most restaurants deal with this by pricing close to Q (the higher price), and then offering discounts on Tuesday night. That's equivalent to pricing close to P but charging a surcharge on Saturday---at least, equivalent in price, but not in perception.

In any event, I'm either willing to pay "Saturday prices" or "Tuesday prices". Depending on my willingness to pay, I'd either view Tuesday as a really good deal, or Saturday as too expensive.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Supply and demand is not about one person being willing to pay different prices at different times. It's about the willingness of *groups* to pay prices.

It works something like this.

* There are X people who want to eat outn on Tuesday. There are Y people who want to eat out on Saturday. Y > X.
* At price P, some fraction p would be willing to eat at Olive Garden. At some other price Q, (Q>P), some smaller fraction q (q<p) would be willing to eat at Olive Garden.
* Ideally, qY == pX == the capacity of Olive Garden.

If the price is the same (lower) price both nights, then the demand is pX on Tuesday, for a full restaurant, but pX on Saturday, with lots of unhappy guests who are waiting too long for a table or told they must leave. If the price is the same (higher) price both nights, then the demand is qY on Saturday, for a full restaurant, but qX on Tuesday, for a really slow night.

Most restaurants deal with this by pricing close to Q (the higher price), and then offering discounts on Tuesday night. That's equivalent to pricing close to P but charging a surcharge on Saturday in price, but not in perception.

In any event, I'm either willing to pay "Saturday prices" or "Tuesday prices". Depending on my willingness to pay, I'd either view Tuesday as a really good deal, or Saturday as too expensive.

Most restaurants deal with this by pricing close to Q (the higher price), and then offering discounts on Tuesday night.

Virtually none of the restaurants at which I choose to dine are less expensive on Tuesday (or Monday, Wednesday, Thursday etc).

I dine out frequently and dont know where these places are located.

An example I've talked about frequently....I love the Celebration Town Tavern. They have one menu thats the same from opening until closing Monday through Sunday.

 

[aspen37]

At one time the DIS Unplugged was fun to listen to, I was part of the community, I wrote and called in questions, donated to charities. I even called in from WDW during my vacation giving you reviews that you played on the show. John even talked about me and my donation, with my company match and not wanting anything in return (John's words, not mine), and Pete called me a 'good guy'. I cared about the show and wanted to help make it better.

Since Bob's passing there have been a change towards the way the show is presented. The team has changed and the fun has disappeared, the chemistry is gone and I lost a friend in the DU show. I guess things change but not always for the good.

Per Kevin's and John's request I will no longer listen to the show, it truly is the DU team's loss. I'm sure that if I feel this way, many others do too, they are just afraid to post.

Imagine how much good Pete and the entire DU team could do if they stuck to positive thoughts and actions. The entire world would be a better place.

As an example, MouseMeets this weekend raised over $26,000 in one day for Make-a-Wish, by being positive and keeping the Disney magic alive. And not one person was talked down to or made fun of. Maybe you can learn a thing of two from that.

I like the DIS because they don't bow down to Disney and act like everything they do is AWESOME! No company or person is perfect. If something is wrong in your company wouldn't you want to about it and fix it? Look at Michael Jackson everyone was afraid to tell him he was killing himself because he was Michael Jackson. Someone needs to keep Disney in check because they aren't doing it on their own. The government thought that the banks could govern themselves too, now look at the mess this country is in.
I thank the DIS for not being like the other butt kissing podcasts! I thank them for putting themselves out there. Keep up the good work! I like hearing the good, the bad, and the ugly.
If you stop listening that is your loss, but then maybe you'll be alot happier.

So here you say you stopped listening.



And here you say you stopped listening per their request.



Rich, let me spell it out for you because John and Kevin are trying to be nice and I don't need to be.

GO AWAY! DON'T COME BACK!

I have seen your nasty comments for far too long.


I'd now like to remind everyone about the "Ignore" function on the DIS. Click the user name, then go to their profile. Click Ignore.

 

[Brian Noble]

They have one menu thats the same from opening until closing Monday through Sunday.

Sure, plenty of restaurants do that too. But, then they are either over-subscribed on Saturday, or under-subscribed on Tuesday. That's less efficient for the restaurant, and provides a lower return on investment. But, it's also simpler for the restaurant.

And, you don't have to change menu prices. You just offer specials on Tuesdays. Or perhaps you only allow Entertainment Cards to be used on weeknights. Or you have a loyalty program where you email discounts to frequent diners usable on off nights. Plenty of places do these things and more to help keep their tables full on slower nights. Alternatively, some places just don't bother opening on the slowest nights of the week, shifting the lower-than-usual weeknight demand to fewer available nights, raising overall occupancy.

I believe that "micro-market-pricing" is only going to get worse, not better, as companies figure out how to better monetize differences in demand. The San Francisco Giants are already adjusting prices, day-by-day, for some of their game tickets based on weather forecasts, etc. Going forward, I expect these sorts of experiments to continue.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Giants_plan_to_play_with_pricing.html

Micro-pricing, is nothing new for Disney Parks & Resorts. Once upon a time, there was Value season, Regular, Peak, and Holiday. That was it. Summer got added to the mix a few years ago, but only for the Values and Moderates. Now there are different prices for Marathon weekend, weekend nights generally, etc. etc. etc., all to get resort rates to better track changes in demand.

If it works for the hotels why wouldn't it work for the restaurants? And, we know it already does work for the restaurants, because Seasonal pricing at the buffets is nothing new---and they are still more or less full, year round, peak pricing or not.

At the end of the day, my relationship with Mickey is "nothing personal, strictly business." It is Disney's job to extract as much money as they possibly can from their investment in their parks and resorts. It is my job to get as much value out of my visits as I can for as little money as possible. This is necessarily an adversarial relationship. That doesn't mean it can't also be fun.

 

[angelmav]

Virtually none of the restaurants at which I choose to dine are less expensive on Tuesday (or Monday, Wednesday, Thursday etc).

I dine out frequently and dont know where these places are located.

An example I've talked about frequently....I love the Celebration Town Tavern. They have one menu thats the same from opening until closing Monday through Sunday.

I am with you on this one Kevin, We eat out ALL THE TIME! it is our single biggest weakness and most common financial blunder, but we do it because w enjoy the heck out of it. I have never come across a chain or mom and pop place that operates a price structure that changes for the days of the week. Sure there are lunch specials, but those are generally smaller and meant to be consumed at a faster pace (the lunch hour). The dining experience is drastically different than the dinner service and the dinner menu. The only exceptions to this are legitimate holidays where a restaurant has special offerings. I think that many are confusing this with dsineys seasonal money grab that offers nothing different rather than a higher price tag.

This is the second time recently that someone has come out decrying the honest expression of opinion on the dis. While I have often disagreed with the mods at times here, in both instances you guys have been crystal clear that the honest discussion of the good and the bad is what makes this site so useful and I thank you for that! If all I wanted was the rose colored version I would just watch the planning DVD 24/7.

I think Pete is 100% correct here. (wait did I just say that??) The ticket increse was one thing, bad PR but expected and when broken down over the length of stay palatable enough, but the dining plan that has been such a success to disneys bottom line while being consistently gutted of its value, that is just a line too far.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Virtually none of the restaurants at which I choose to dine are less expensive on Tuesday (or Monday, Wednesday, Thursday etc).

I dine out frequently and dont know where these places are located.

An example I've talked about frequently....I love the Celebration Town Tavern. They have one menu thats the same from opening until closing Monday through Sunday.

Exactly. Who else does this? No where that I eat.

We often stay at a resort in southern Ohio, you are a bit at their mercy when it comes to food because they are located within a state park and it's quite a drive to go "into town" to eat. They have one sit down restaurant at the lodge. I have stayed there in summer when the place is full to the gills and in early winter when I thought I might be the only guest and the prices in the dining room were the same. Their food is extremely mediorce, but at least they didn't charge me more for it when there were 2 hour waits for a table.

 

[aspen37]

Supply and demand is not about one person being willing to pay different prices at different times. It's about the willingness of *groups* to pay prices.

It works something like this.

* There are X people who want to eat out on Tuesday. There are Y people who want to eat out on Saturday. Y > X.
* At price P, some fraction p would be willing to eat at Olive Garden. At some other price Q, (Q>P), some smaller fraction q (q<p) would be willing to eat at Olive Garden.
* Ideally, qY == pX == the capacity of Olive Garden.

If the price is the same (lower) price both nights, then the demand is pX on Tuesday, for a full restaurant, but pY on Saturday, with lots of unhappy guests who are waiting too long for a table or told they must leave. If the price is the same (higher) price both nights, then the demand is qY on Saturday, for a full restaurant, but qX on Tuesday, for a really slow night.

Most restaurants deal with this by pricing close to Q (the higher price), and then offering discounts on Tuesday night. That's equivalent to pricing close to P but charging a surcharge on Saturday---at least, equivalent in price, but not in perception.

In any event, I'm either willing to pay "Saturday prices" or "Tuesday prices". Depending on my willingness to pay, I'd either view Tuesday as a really good deal, or Saturday as too expensive.

I live in Aspen and the only time you see lower prices is during the off season. It isn't based on the day of the week it is based on the season. The restaurants would like for everyone to think that they are so busy that if you don't make a reservation that you won't get a table.

 

[Brian Noble]

I have to admit---I'm surprised at how *little* ranting and raving there has been about the dining plan pricing---close to an 18% increase in peak season. I'm not sure if the Dining forum mods have just been deleting it all, or what, but people seem to be taking it in stride, for the most part.

Their food is extremely mediorce, but at least they didn't charge me more for it when there were 2 hour waits for a table.

Perhaps they should. They'd make more money.

Folks, businesses don't have souls. They exist only to drive money to their shareholders. If the restaurant would still be full with higher prices, then the company is obligated to their shareholders to charge those higher prices.

Do I like it? Of course not! I'd *love* to pay less rather than more when I visit Disney. But, I don't get to set the prices. I can only decide if I'm going or not. If enough people decide not to go, Disney will know that they've gone too far, and have to lower prices. If enough people keep going, then Disney has done right by their shareholders---and aside from following the law, that's the only responsibility they have.

I live in Aspen and the only time you see lower prices is during the off season. It isn't based on the day of the week it is based on the season.

It strikes me that this is precisely what Disney is doing with the dining plan.

 

[Allison]

Exactly. Who else does this? No where that I eat.

I see it in my area all the time. Of course, it's not called a surcharge or peak pricing during the busier days. It's presented as 2 for 1 on Monday nights, or kids eat free on Tuesdays or $2 off a meal on Wednesdays. Very common.

 

[Brian Noble]

I see it in my area all the time. Of course, it's not called a surcharge or peak pricing during the busier days. It's presented as 2 for 1 on Monday nights, or kids eat free on Tuesdays or $2 off a meal on Wednesdays. Very common.

Right. What's odd is that Disney is not effectively marketing this as a discount. They are presenting it as an increase. They would have been much better off by raising buffet prices across the board, right at the beginning of one of the "peak seasons", and then a few months later announcing an "off-season discount" for non-peak dates. Instead, they announced it as a "seasonal price" which just looks bad.

At the end of the day, the prices are the same, but one way doesn't look nearly as bad as the other. They really bungled the perception around dining pricing, and have since the seasonal pricing notion debuted.

 

[WebmasterJohn]

I get what some are saying about lesser priced meals on certain days. We see this in the form of specials, discounts and incentives to draw in customer. Some places have senior nights, or kids eat free nights. These are usually the less busy days of the week to help increase business during off times.

However, what Disney is doing with the tiered price of the meal plan is the exact opposite of this. Instead of saying 'we see less people coming during off season let's make the price less to entice them to buy the meal plan' what they are saying is 'less raise the prices all the way around AND make it more to eat during peak seasons'.

This may work in a thriving economy but when your corporate profits are a reported 26% loss it doesn't make any sense. If you want to increase profit during your less busy season lower prices then...don't raise them. If you want to 'even out' your business and reduce losses don't raise the price on those that will buy your product to the point they can no longer afford it.

In addition to the basic, common sense of all this there is a undefined variable and that is perceived value. At what point will something be priced at a point that the majority of your customers no longer think it's worth what you're charging.

Again, in a strong economy when you have growth you can play with pricing and push the limits to see at what point the price exceeds the perceived value. When you have a loss of business and you need to increase volume it makes more sense to leave things as-is than to experiment with increasing pricing.

Now, the argument can be made that perhaps Disney's profits were down because they were losing money on the dining plan. If that's the case then you need to look at reinventing it in such a way as to increase it's profitability. The easy way to do that is raise prices - as long as that doesn't cause people not to buy it. The not-so-easy way is to sit down and look at a cost benefits analsys and see what needs to be reworked or thrown out altogether.

At the end of the day this is all speculation. We won't know what effect this will have on Disney, their future profits, the dining plan and/or consumers.

From the subset of Disney fans that are active and vocal on the DIS it appears that more people will forego the Dining plan at the new pricing - but we will have to wait and see.

 

[aspen37]

It strikes me that this is precisely what Disney is doing with the dining plan.

It's not the whole menu that goes down in price. They usually have a 3 course fixed price special. What Disney is doing is charging a premium for when it is busy across the board for the dining plan. Here the menu stays the same and you have a special if you want it. That is not the same.

 

[Brian Noble]

However, what Disney is doing with the tiered price of the meal plan is the exact opposite of this. Instead of saying 'we see less people coming during off season let's make the price less to entice them to buy the meal plan' what they are saying is 'less raise the prices all the way around AND make it more to eat during peak seasons'.

But, this is only a matter of perception. In either case, one price is higher than the other, based on season. It's just a matter of what you call it. And, I 100% agree that Disney has not managed the perception well at all.

I also suspect that part of what is going on is that Foods is pushing back a little on Resorts. A lot of people "on the inside" suggest that Foods has taken it on the chin with the dining plan, because it was too good of a value for the guests---restaurants are generating thinner margins than they did pre-plan. But, because DDP was part of Destination Disney, this was seen as an overall win for the P&R segment. The entire idea behind the dining plan (along with the MYW ticket pricing structure and Magical Express) was to encourage guests to (a) spend all of their Central FL vacation time and money with Disney and (b) pre-pay for as much of it as possible.

Destination Disney has been, by all accounts, a screaming success---the market share between Disney and the other Orlando players changed significantly that year---so Foods' boo-hooing about no revenue was more or less ignored. But, over the past several years, Disney has made several non-trivial changes to the plan (appetizers, tips, etc.) without really weakening the Destination Disney program and presumably without pushing Dining Plan sales below expectations. So, this is just the next step in that evolution.

 

[aspen37]

Here is the bottom line for me, I have never been to WDW without having the dining plan. I will not be using it anymore. They have made it almost impossible to get my moneys worth. I don't except to make money on the dining plan, but I don't want to waste money either.

 

[WaltD4Me]

I see it in my area all the time. Of course, it's not called a surcharge or peak pricing during the busier days. It's presented as 2 for 1 on Monday nights, or kids eat free on Tuesdays or $2 off a meal on Wednesdays. Very common.

Right, they are offering some discounts off their regular prices to draw in customers on slow days. Ok, I get that. How is this the same as Disney who is raising their regular prices during busy times?