Perspectives on crossing the land border with a positive

[erineab]

I know that no one has answers right now, and it’s all so confusing, but I’m just interested in getting others’ thoughts on crossing the land border back into Canada in the event of a positive pre-entry test.

I am scheduled to travel with my 12 and 15 year old in March. We are all fully vaxxed (and I am boosted as well).I originally booked flights out of Buffalo, with the understanding that, should we test positive on our pre-entry test to return to Canada, we would be permitted to show a quarantine plan and isolate at home. We would fly home on a Friday and test in Buffalo so I have access to my car to get the tests done. Because we are flying back on a Friday, we aren’t in a rush to get home.

Of course now, the language states that we “may” be charged a $5,000 fine if we attempt to cross the border with a positive test, and must wait 10 days in the US before attempting to cross. I would actually be okay with that; however, if one of us tests positive initially, there is near certainty that someone else will test positive by the time we re-take the test to enter after that 10-day isolation period. We’d be isolating in a hotel room together - close quarters. Those of us who test negative would have to test again on day 7 of the quarantine period (in order to be within 72 hours of when the 10 day isolation period is up). At that point, if someone else tests positive, we are back to another 10 day quarantine period, which is adding up to 17 days. And imagine if the third person tested positive after that? That’s a very long stay stateside!

Under normal circumstances, I would just postpone. I have already postponed this trip (originally supposed to go March 2020) three times. However, my childrens’ father passed away on Christmas Eve, and they really need something to look forward to. My 12 year old especially is struggling. I haven’t been able to get her back into school full time yet, and it’s just been indescribably rough. I don’t share that to elicit sympathy - only to say that I am willing to assume an increased degree of risk to make this happen for them, but definitely not to the tune of a potentially $15,000+ fine.

Is anyone else in a similar position and wondering whether it’s worth it to try to cross even if the test is positive?

 

[Juventus]

Same position. Family of 5. Leaving from Windsor. We are leaving a second car near Detroit in case we need to split up the positives and negatives upon return. Waiting for as much info/real life examples as possible on the 'maybe' $5000 fine...but there is not much out there.

We do have the Greenshield isolation insurance.

 

[Average Joes]

I am sorry to hear about your situation.

I spoke to a land border guard friend 1.5 weeks ago about crossing with a positive case. He basically said that they were not fining people if they had a place to quarantine in Canada. He almost did when someone was rude and would not tell him he had a place to quarantine. Mind you this is just one employee's experience. He also noted that the rules change constantly. All I took away was that as of 1.5 weeks ago it would be very unlikely to get fined if I used Arrivecane, had a place to quarantine and was respectful. Given your situation someone would have to have no heart to fine you since it appears discretionary.

Hopefully someone has better insight for you and good luck.

 

[dancin Disney style]

I have nothing really to offer in terms of crossing with a positive result. We were just at WDW and had a scare when my DD's test was positive (turned out to be false....we got another one that was neg...bit of a story there). We both spent hours trying to figure out what the options were...leave her there...fly her back to BUF and cross by land. We really didn't find much info on a land crossing. LOL....I think she was secretly hoping to just stay put at WDW for an extra 10 days.

Anyway, what I was wanting to say was that in light of what your family is going through....just go! Take the trip and deal with whatever happens. You can control your own behaviour and keep yourselves safe. If you are planning to go to WDW be forewarned.....it's a whole different animal down there. People don't wear masks like we do, they don't social distance at all and there is very little hand sanitizer.

 

[ellbell]

I am sorry to hear about your situation.

I spoke to a land border guard friend 1.5 weeks ago about crossing with a positive case. He basically said that they were not fining people if they had a place to quarantine in Canada. He almost did when someone was rude and would not tell him he had a place to quarantine. Mind you this is just one employee's experience. He also noted that the rules change constantly. All I took away was that as of 1.5 weeks ago it would be very unlikely to get fined if I used Arrivecane, had a place to quarantine and was respectful. Given your situation someone would have to have no heart to fine you since it appears discretionary.

Hopefully someone has better insight for you and good luck.

Isn't it the health canada workers at the border that would issue the fine? I was under the impression that if you showed a positive at the border that you go to a secondary stop to speak with a healthcare worker and they are the ones fining you as they are the ones enforcing the covid 19 measures.

ETA: the canada covid informatikn page no longer stayes that people "may" get a fine. It clearly states that a positive test within 72 hours is not a valid test and to avoid being fined bot to cross.

 

[CaptainCook]

Take the trip and deal with whatever happens. You can control your own behaviour and keep yourselves safe.

It sounds to me like you guys need this trip, but I have to disagree with this statement. We were in the parks for 4 days at the end of December, wore masks religiously (including many outdoor locales), no indoor dining or shows, took Uber instead of Disney transport, and still came home with Covid. Please don't think it can't happen to you. Make a contingency plan. Can another adult travel with you and then you split the party up if someone gets sick so that at least some of you can get home again?

 

[Juventus]

Isn't it the health canada workers at the border that would issue the fine? I was under the impression that if you showed a positive at the border that you go to a secondary stop to speak with a healthcare worker and they are the ones fining you as they are the ones enforcing the covid 19 measures.

ETA: the canada covid informatikn page no longer stayes that people "may" get a fine. It clearly states that a positive test within 72 hours is not a valid test and to avoid being fined bot to cross.

I wrote this in another thread, the "may" is still there:
Based on your answers, you won’t be turned away at the land border, but you may be fined $5,000 per traveller (plus surcharges).

 

[Frozen2014]

First I wanted to say how very sorry I am to hear of your kids' dad passing. I started tearing up reading it, and can totally understand this trip is needed. I don't have much to add as same dilemma and was also thinking that if one tests positive, then it's possible for others to test positive afterwards and then the clock starts again (and how often do you test while waiting?). We've had enough missed trips though and are thinking of still going (cruise for March, WDW in the summer).

If one of us is positive, we were thinking of maybe renting an AirBnB. Don't know much about them but it would let us us spread out more to lessen chance of others getting it, plus would help with being able to work remotely (work for us and school for kids). Or possible those that are negative will come home while positive will stay depending on who it is, but that doesn't work if its you and your kids.

I don't have an answer and so wish they would remove the fine....esp as it's not clear if it's a warning or if it's carried out. Think it's pretty horrible they did that but doesn't help solve the problem. It's so hard to say whether to chance returning or wait to return.

Hoping it's a non-issue for both of us.

 

[CaptainCook]

If one of us is positive, we were thinking of maybe renting an AirBnB. Don't know much about them but it would let us us spread out more to lessen chance of others getting it, plus would help with being able to work remotely (work for us and school for kids). Or possible those that are negative will come home while positive will stay depending on who it is, but that doesn't work if its you and your kids.

Checking into an Airbnb with a known covid case, or while awaiting covid test results, is against Airbnb policy - though whether (and how) this is enforced may be a different matter.

 

[Average Joes]

Isn't it the health canada workers at the border that would issue the fine? I was under the impression that if you showed a positive at the border that you go to a secondary stop to speak with a healthcare worker and they are the ones fining you as they are the ones enforcing the covid 19 measures.

ETA: the canada covid informatikn page no longer stayes that people "may" get a fine. It clearly states that a positive test within 72 hours is not a valid test and to avoid being fined bot to cross.

This particular border guard was just waving people into Canada even if they are positive. The crossing as a whole was getting dozens of positives crossing daily at that time. He made it sound like it was not a big deal as long as you were going to quarantine. He did not mentioned Health Canada and I did not ask. He specifically said he had not fined anyone but perhaps he was being vague rather than getting into details of who does that.

As far as I am aware there is no requirement to fine anyone who is positive. It seems discretionary.

 

[Frozen2014]

Checking into an Airbnb with a known covid case, or while awaiting covid test results, is against Airbnb policy - though whether (and how) this is enforced may be a different matter.

Thanks for mentioning. Didn't realize this.

This particular border guard was just waving people into Canada even if they are positive. The crossing as a whole was getting dozens of positives crossing daily at that time. He made it sound like it was not a big deal as long as you were going to quarantine. He did not mentioned Health Canada and I did not ask. He specifically said he had not fined anyone but perhaps he was being vague rather than getting into details of who does that.

As far as I am aware there is no requirement to fine anyone who is positive. It seems discretionary.

Great info. Hope that continues. Would be great if you can report back if you hear any further (either more scenarios of no fines, or if they start giving fines)

 

[dancin Disney style]

It sounds to me like you guys need this trip, but I have to disagree with this statement. We were in the parks for 4 days at the end of December, wore masks religiously (including many outdoor locales), no indoor dining or shows, took Uber instead of Disney transport, and still came home with Covid. Please don't think it can't happen to you. Make a contingency plan. Can another adult travel with you and then you split the party up if someone gets sick so that at least some of you can get home again?

We wore our masks at ALL times....including outdoors. Medical grade, properly fitted masks and changed them every 4 hours. I was absolutely floored that most people in the parks walked around in huge crowds with no masks. People stood in attraction lines shoulder to shoulder with no masks. People had completely improper masks...both in fit and quality. We took all our food/drink to secluded corners outdoors and often had to get up and move because of other people getting too close. I'm not at all suggesting that anyone is completely safe but it is your choice on how careful you want to be.

 

[Average Joes]

It is really hard to walk the line but we have to be really careful about not giving opinions about COVID including transmission. It seems that policy issues related to travel that involved COVID is fair game but not much else when it comes to COVID on this forum.

 

[dancin Disney style]

It is really hard to walk the line but we have to be really careful about not giving opinions about COVID including transmission. It seems that policy issues related to travel that involved COVID is fair game but not much else when it comes to COVID on this forum.

I think my comments pertain to my WDW travel experience of this past week but if you think it doesn’t I can delete it….no big deal.

 

[Duck1]

I have a cousin who works for border services. He told me that it is health Canada who issues the fines as opposed to the border officers. He has not heard of anyone here (Windsor) getting fined but the rule only changed fairly recently. He is going to keep me posted and if I hear anything I will post. I did learn that any quarantine act offences are being prosecuted in provincial offences court. I have reached out to some former colleagues who do these prosecutions to get a sense of how they are handling them and what fines if any are being imposed. An acquaintance of mine recently crossed over at Niagara and was given a ticket as he deliberately decided not to get a pcr test. Don’t ask me why…. He sent in the ticket requesting a trial date. Given the backlog in all the court systems it will likely take ages for this to get reached and I suspect that they may end up getting tossed at some point. I urge anyone who takes issue with this rule to reach out to the MPs. This rule violates the charter in my opinion and is punitive in nature. If a Canadian has a legitimate quarantine plan there is no reason why they should have to choose between returning home with a possible fine or remaining in the states which as the op mentioned could result in a rather lengthy stay in large families. Rant over, but I will post if I receive any further info.

 

[piccolopat]

If you have to stay stateside, consider getting 2 connecting rooms at a hotel with room service so you can be somewhat separate from whoever has COVID.

 

[toesmom]

I know that no one has answers right now, and it’s all so confusing, but I’m just interested in getting others’ thoughts on crossing the land border back into Canada in the event of a positive pre-entry test.

I am scheduled to travel with my 12 and 15 year old in March. We are all fully vaxxed (and I am boosted as well).I originally booked flights out of Buffalo, with the understanding that, should we test positive on our pre-entry test to return to Canada, we would be permitted to show a quarantine plan and isolate at home. We would fly home on a Friday and test in Buffalo so I have access to my car to get the tests done. Because we are flying back on a Friday, we aren’t in a rush to get home.

Of course now, the language states that we “may” be charged a $5,000 fine if we attempt to cross the border with a positive test, and must wait 10 days in the US before attempting to cross. I would actually be okay with that; however, if one of us tests positive initially, there is near certainty that someone else will test positive by the time we re-take the test to enter after that 10-day isolation period. We’d be isolating in a hotel room together - close quarters. Those of us who test negative would have to test again on day 7 of the quarantine period (in order to be within 72 hours of when the 10 day isolation period is up). At that point, if someone else tests positive, we are back to another 10 day quarantine period, which is adding up to 17 days. And imagine if the third person tested positive after that? That’s a very long stay stateside!

Under normal circumstances, I would just postpone. I have already postponed this trip (originally supposed to go March 2020) three times. However, my childrens’ father passed away on Christmas Eve, and they really need something to look forward to. My 12 year old especially is struggling. I haven’t been able to get her back into school full time yet, and it’s just been indescribably rough. I don’t share that to elicit sympathy - only to say that I am willing to assume an increased degree of risk to make this happen for them, but definitely not to the tune of a potentially $15,000+ fine.

Is anyone else in a similar position and wondering whether it’s worth it to try to cross even if the test is positive?

This is just my opinion, but I would go into the trip with utmost care to keep your hands always clean and double mask whenever you are in closed rooms or in lines with other people. If you do this, and of course, be very careful on the plane, you may find your result will be negative.

We traveled at Christmas, arrived Christmas day, and left January 7. We did not hide from people, we went on lots of rides, in lots of lines, think haunted mansion room, tower of terror lines, soarin lines, test track inside lines... we were in everything. We always sanitized our hands, always after getting off rides, always. And wore masks (double masks) anytime we were around a lot of people. I had KN95 and basic 3ply mask on top in these cases, my son wouldn't use the KN95 so he had cloth and 3ply air canada mask on top. And we tested negative.

My parents met us from Naples, they had booster just the week before travel. They both tested positive. My father mid-trip and my mom, few days later. They are ok. But they definitely got this at Disney. They weren't careful, they are older, and plenty of times, my father had his mask in pocket, and he was forgetful about it. Definitely they didn't sanitize their hands nowhere near as much as we did. He only went on few rides (Soarin) and we had few lunches where waiters felt the need to speak 1 foot from his face... Anyhow, they are both fine, and we didn't contract the virus. We stayed in different rooms so we weren't directly exposed.

So you can go safely. Just keep in mind these ideas of how to keep safe and have a great time. I don't regret going at all.

We did have a back up plan just in case, but thankfully we didn't have to drive 24 hours from Orlando to Toronto. I would go again in a heartbeat it was an essential trip for our mental health.

No regrets, have fun!

 

[DisneYE]

I am so sorry about the passing of your kids' dad.
I hope you and them find the strength to overcome these challenging times.

I've no advice to offer regarding your border crossing concern.

But if you end up having to stay in the WDW area due to a need to quarantine, please DM me so I can suggest you a very nice resort-type apartment complex that is beautiful, reasonably priced, with large units and, most importantly, a management company that isn't strict about health status.

 

[Princess Oma]

You asked for perspectives- everyone here seems to be giving one so I will too. The realist in me says there is wording posted by the govt. on what can happen. If you are fine taking the chance- don’t blow a gasket when or if you are fined- and you/traveling party are guilty. Just like speeding- you know the rules-and what the possible outcomes “could” be. (Loose analogy). Just have the money as backup to be prepared to quarantine or pay the fine if you choose to go. I have read 2 cases of families tested at Disney resorts- one was allowed to do their quarantine therei a DVC unit-they had food in the unit already and then they had someone like doordash or something that left food on their doorstep. Another family said that Disney helped them find a hotel that would take them As they could not extend their stay. If you have a positive test- you would need to tell the hotel/air b n b as they may have working in the policy they might have to know for insurance purposes if they can or can not knowingly take in covid positives- so best to try and call and make back up plans ahead of time if you do have to quarantine what hotels would allow it.
If not- find something that might be a little off the beaten path for a vacation in your own area like a camping/hiking/fishing trip where dad could watch from Heaven, Have a week of fun where you buy passes for unlimited bowling,roller skating, arcade, glow in the dark putt putt, and things of that nature. Find a water park near you and book a hotel for a weekend and go out to eat and enjoy the waterpark at leisure. In times like these, not everyone has a lot of disposable income lying around as a backup for oh crap I’ve got Covid and stuck in another country.
And no disrespect to anyone here- but by going on someone’s boyfriends’ sisters’ mother’s brother in law who has a friend who works at the border type thing will never be 100% accurate. Prepare for the worst and Hope for the best. Read the govt. websites. Be prepared. Have backups. If it is too stressful- kids do understand. Just find something for them to look forward to- just doesn’t have to be Disney-in another country.
Don’t know if Canada has any cruises that leave and come back to Canada but that would at least get you back on home country soil if any of you tested positive And could drive straight home. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Whatever you decide just own it. I am so sorry something so bad happened during these trying times where it is hard to get the enjoyment you are looking for without the extra hassle- but always remember when one door closes another opens up. It may not be the one you were looking for or even ever looking for- but one will open and you’ll know when to walk through it

 

[MCFADDEN5]

Well, I dont know what the right answer is. We have postponed this trip 3 times. We are all triple vaxed and although we didn’t get tested due to Ontario rules, I am confident we have already had Covid. We also will be cautious abs take precautions. We are driving (decided to cancel flights) Our issue is that if anyone tested positive my husband cannot extend his stay. We own a dairy farm and and extending is not an option for us. However quarantine is not a problem. I am able to work from home also and my husband obviously works from home. Due to the nature of farming if we cancel again it will be next fall before we can go again.
i think we will take our chances and if anyone tests positive we will cross the border with a good quarantine plan in place and pray we don’t get fined