Pentax K100D or Sony DSLR-A100

[photo_chick]

Ok, as far as my PSP comments, my DH set me straight on ripping games to the memory stick. I am not othe primary user for that (I only watch video on it, and normally I do that on my iPod). Although he said they keep coming out with firmware updates that prevent some of the emulators from working.

On the PS3... My DH is a game dev. So there is a lot of console talk in my house. I think the main problem with the failing PS3 (when devs will not make games for it, it is failing) is the price point. The rushed production that Sony ends up doing to get the product out creates many defects.(anyone remember the PSP's and the dead pixels in the first two runs) And why the heck did you take away my Dual Shock Sony, oh thats right you lost the license to that! You can't really compare the PS3 to the Wii though. THey are different machines for different audiences really. They just both came out around the same time. I, as a former Mac user, have gone over to the enemy an now love my 360.

As far as dropping product lines.... Sony has been bashed a bit here by myself included. I hear Pentax gurus touting that Pentax can use every lens Pentax has made... I have 2 that it cannot. They are for my Pentax 110 SLR. A product line that was dropped fairly quickly I might add. Too bad too, it is a fun camera to use. I like Pentax, Sony is evil. But technically it can't use every single lens Pentax has made. 35mm leneses perhaps. But that is not the line I always hear.

And don't knock my lens choice. The lens you use is a personal decision and completely subjective. If that is the way I like to shoot, then it is my choice. There is nothing wrong with it, JUst like it migh tbe another persons choice to capture the sweat on their kids face with a telephoto lens at the game! I said it works for me but might not for others. Again back to the whole photography is art and art is subjective.


Now I am off, I have a date with my 4 year old to play Lego Star Wars 2.

 

[ukcatfan]

If Pentax drops cameras, it will probably be because they sold the practice to Samsung. Samsung wants to grow their camera and camcorder business and the Pentax lineup would be useful to them. They already partner with them, so an acquisition wouldn't be too big of a step.

I have been wondering that myself. It seems like there might be some sort of agreement where Samsung has backed off of the US market for the DSLRs and left it to Pentax. I do not even know anywhere that sells their DSLRs. I also read recently that Samsung has a new CMOS sensor coming out. You might be on to something here.

Kevin

 

[photo_chick]

I thought a lot of Samsung's stuff was actually made by Kyocera, or is it the other way around?

 

[ukcatfan]

I thought a lot of Samsung's stuff was actually made by Kyocera, or is it the other way around?

I am not sure on the p&s models(or anything else they sell for that matter), but the DSLRs are re-branded Pentax models. The names and the color band on the lens are the only real differences. Their K10D equiv. model does not support the Pentax RAW mode due to DNG being supported.

Given the CMOS story, that puts some credibility behind Samsung pushing for market share with digital cameras and possibly buying the Pentax camera division. http://www.steves-digicams.com/diginews.html#samsung_sensor
I think Samsung passed Nikon in market share in '06 moving to fifth.

Kevin

P.S. I realized after posting that this could be misleading. The CMOS sensor mentioned is not a DSLR sensor. I just mean that they are interested in expanding their sensor market share and therefore could end up being the supplier of sensors for the next generations of Pentax DSLRs. If so, it would make a lot of sense to just buy up the Pentax camera division so they could have more control on the development end.

 

[MICKEY88]

I forgot to respond to this. Yes, you are absolutely correct. I don't have sales numbers but it certainly appears that the Pentax community is more active than the Sony/Minolta one. There are a few different Pentax-only forums in addition to the subforums on the bigger sites, a mailing list, etc... there's a lot of enthusiasm out there. I also understand that used Minolta lenses are still pretty cheap while used Pentax lenses have gone up dramatically in value.

The forum message count was, as I said, totally unscientific.

that's because Minolta/Sony owners are too busy using their cameras to sit and talk about them...

 

[MICKEY88]

as far as Sony dropping the DLSR line, I'm putting my money on them keeping it, they wouldn't have spent the money they did to buy Minoltas factory,design team..etc. if they weren't serious, they have a big share of the digital P&S market and they know that those numbers will grow even bigger by selling dslrs and growing the size of their followers...

they have announced 2 follow up cameras to the A100, and yes other companies have released a few while they've released none...the same thing happened with minolta in the late 80's early 90's..Nikon and canon were battling each other to keep coming out with new models, and they were having a lot of returns for repair, while Minolta took the time to get their cameras right, before releasing them..I worked for ritz camera at the time and our return numbers[percentage of sales per brand} for canon and nikon were way higher than Minolta

 

[photo_chick]

What about the fact that Sony is consitantly posting losses? How is that goigng to impact a camera line?

 

[GrumpyOne]

Sony may have shipped a bunch of units and could even be profiting from it, but that does not mean that the product is meeting Sony's ROI requirements. Just b/c something is popular and making money does not mean that it is doing well enough that the money could not be spent elsewhere in the company to bring in more money. If Sony finds that the money could be better spent elsewhere, they will drop DSLR support quicker than anyone can blink. The DSLR product is a tiny part of their overall business. For companies like Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, and Fuji it is a larger share of overall sales so they are more dedicated to the success.

I probably still will not convince you, but that is how I feel about Sony. I have seen two different friends drop big $$$ on DAT and MiniDisc only to stop using it within a year.

Kevin

I wanted to extend this with an example. The online multi-player gaming market is huge now but it wasn't always this way. Before World of Warcraft with its 8 million subscribers, a game was considered a big hit with 250,000. Sony owns the rights to a few well known games and the rights to make games based on a few more. One they own is Everquest, another they own(ed) the rights to was Star Wars.

Sony developed a game based on the Star Wars universe that was unique and extremely popular. At its height, it had as many subscribers as all but the most popular Asian games or Everquest itself.

Then Blizzard produced World of Warcraft with sold more during the first week than Star Wars Galaxies did in a year. Sony figured, "this is Star Wars, if they can get that many subscribers, we can to. We just need to redo the product." So they did.

The resulting product annoyed a lot of subscribers and flocks of people canceled their subscription to a game they loved (I was one). Others stuck it out because the changes didn't affect them as much. Subscriber nunmbers dropped rather than rose.

Sony tried again six months later. WoW had kept climbing and Sony wanted a bigger piece of the pie. The changes this time were even more drastic and more people fled the game.

When all is said and done, Sony gambled with a product that was pulling in 50 million per year and would have kept printing money for a few years even if they didn't invest a drop into new product, they could have had an easy 100m profit. It wasn't enough. They saw where they wanted more reached for it and dropped what they had.

I will never rely on Sony when it comes to any product that depends on continuing support, they are too fickle.

 

[photo_chick]

I am not even going to comment on how Sony dropped the ball on Star Wars Galaxies. SOE is an entirely different evilness, and probably the part of the whole company I have the most disdain for.

May Bunnie O'Hare rest in peace.

 

[Anewman]

What about the fact that Sony is consitantly posting losses? How is that goigng to impact a camera line?

My guess would be...

If they have not shut down the gaming division that has posted some of the biggest losses the company has ever seen, they will obviously not shut down the very profitable digital imaging division.

 

[steery1]

Thanks guys, for an interesting and lively debate.

Unfortunately I am still deliberating which way to go. After listening to your great input and doing some resarch myself I think it will boil down to the lenses.
I intend to eventually get a 18 - 200mm, 50mm prime, 100mm macro and something up to 300ish (In or around these values. Please feel free to comment on my choices )
Ideally Id like to buy pre-owned for these.

My problem is - Which range of Pentax lenses will suit the K100/10d and still retain the auto focus, exposure etc?

Also do all the Minolta range of lenses retain the full functionality of the Alpha?

The relative ease of picking these lenses up pre-owned and them actually working well on the new body will go a long way in helping me decide which way to go.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

The Hoya deal is off for now.

Here are some quotes from today's WSJ:

"Japan's Pentax Corp. (7750.TO) Tuesday scrapped its planned merger with Hoya Corp. (7741.TO) and chose an opponent of the merger as its new president"

"[Pentax] said, however, it was open to seeking other ways of integrating operations with Hoya, an optical products maker."

"Pentax's board appointed Takashi Watanuki, a corporate vice president who is opposed to a merger with Hoya, as its new president effective immediately."

"Pentax generated a scant net profit of Y805 million on sales of Y142.2 billion in the year ended March last year. Hoya was much more profitable, with a net profit of Y75.6 billion on sales of Y344.2 billion."

"Hoya said in a press release Tuesday its board decided to continue its merger talks with Pentax and that a tender offer was one option. "

"On the Tokyo Stock Exchange Tuesday, Pentax shares ended down 3.9% at Y769. Hoya closed down 1.2% at Y4,090."

The full story is here: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20070410-701424.html?mod=wsjcrmain (link requires subscription).

 

[Groucho]

Ok, as far as my PSP comments, my DH set me straight on ripping games to the memory stick. I am not othe primary user for that (I only watch video on it, and normally I do that on my iPod). Although he said they keep coming out with firmware updates that prevent some of the emulators from working.

That's close but not quite 100% right... what's happening is that some newer games require the most current firmware at the time of their release. So if you are on an older firmware, you can still play everything released up to that point, but not the newest games. The hackers are doing a pretty good job keeping current though, my wife's is on the 3.02 firmware and works great with emulators and games from the memory stick. There may be more current ones out there, I haven't checked in a little while.

And why the heck did you take away my Dual Shock Sony, oh thats right you lost the license to that! You can't really compare the PS3 to the Wii though. THey are different machines for different audiences really. They just both came out around the same time. I, as a former Mac user, have gone over to the enemy an now love my 360.

I never cared for "rumble", I certainly don't mind if they drop it. I also don't like that it's infiltrated other controllers - I was trying to play Test Drive Unlimited on my PC with my force-feedback steering wheel, and it has "rumble" effects as well as the "normal" force-feedback. Unfortunately, this meant that as soon as you started going at any kind of speed, the wheel would jerk left and right - "rumble"! This made your car swerve and usually crash soon afterwards. I had to turn the effects way down just to make it playable. Really a lousy decision on their part.

But you are absolutely right on the Wii vs PS3. It's really PS3 vs X360. The X360 certainly has a lead now, but I still think that race is far from over. Remember than most consoles have had a lot of bad games at line-up (including the PS1, PS2, and X-box)... and also that the X-box was pretty much a dud for a while before MS finally started bringing on devs. Then they ported Halo to the PC - I played it to the end and was astounded at how incredibly repetitive and dull it was. No thanks... I'll skip Halo 2 if/when it gets ported. (I can't stand playing FPSs on a console, so no danger of my playing them there.)

 

[Groucho]

Unfortunately I am still deliberating which way to go. After listening to your great input and doing some resarch myself I think it will boil down to the lenses.
I intend to eventually get a 18 - 200mm, 50mm prime, 100mm macro and something up to 300ish (In or around these values. Please feel free to comment on my choices )
Ideally Id like to buy pre-owned for these.

I would avoid an 18-200mm myself, I think you'll make too many optical compromises. For the Pentax side, I'd lean towards the kit lens and the 50-200mm lens, they are good matches. Still, a lot of people do use 18-200mms and like them for the convenience, but I'll go for optics over convenience. Just a personal choice.

My problem is - Which range of Pentax lenses will suit the K100/10d and still retain the auto focus, exposure etc?

Every Pentax lens will have all the features that it had on a film camera, and more - ie, you'll get focus confirmation on manual-focus lenses.

Finding if a lens is autofocus or not should be easy, and you will probably want to make sure that the aperture ring has an "A" setting. It's extremely unlikely that you'll find an autofocus lens that doesn't have an "A" setting on the aperture ring, so focus is probably the main thing you'll be looking for.

If the aperture ring doesn't have an "A" setting, you'll need to hit the AE-L button to stop down the lens temporarily to take a meter reading. Pretty quick and easy, but it is an extra step and one that can become a bother if you're in rapidly changing light conditions.

 

[steery1]

Every Pentax lens will have all the features that it had on a film camera, and more - ie, you'll get focus confirmation on manual-focus lenses.

Finding if a lens is autofocus or not should be easy, and you will probably want to make sure that the aperture ring has an "A" setting. It's extremely unlikely that you'll find an autofocus lens that doesn't have an "A" setting on the aperture ring, so focus is probably the main thing you'll be looking for.

If the aperture ring doesn't have an "A" setting, you'll need to hit the AE-L button to stop down the lens temporarily to take a meter reading. Pretty quick and easy, but it is an extra step and one that can become a bother if you're in rapidly changing light conditions.

Sorry if Im sounding like a thicko but would this include third party lenses made for the Pentax 35mm cameras, ie Tamron, Tokina, Sigma etc, so long as theyhave an "A" setting?

 

[ukcatfan]

Sorry if Im sounding like a thicko but would this include third party lenses made for the Pentax 35mm cameras, ie Tamron, Tokina, Sigma etc, so long as theyhave an "A" setting?

They must have that "A" setting in order to be able to do auto aperture. There are also some lenses that have no aperture ring at all. These are auto aperture lenses as well. This is not an indicator of the auto focus abilities. Check this website out http://www.photodo.com/products.html. Look at the mount section. The Pentax K SMC, Pentax K SMC-A, and Pentax K SMC-M are the manual focus mounts. The Pentax K SMC-DA, Pentax K SMC-F, Pentax K SMC-FA, and Pentax K SMC-FAJ are the auto focus mounts. All will work with the Pentax DSLRs, but may function differently. The other Pentax mounts listed are not compatible on their own, but sometimes can be used with an adapter as a MF only though. Groucho, did I say that all correctly?

Unfortunately, the third party companies do not always make it obvious which mount it is, so sometimes you have to do a little digging.

Kevin

 

[steery1]

Thanks for the link. Ill check it out

 

[photo_chick]

Then they ported Halo to the PC - I played it to the end and was astounded at how incredibly repetitive and dull it was. No thanks... I'll skip Halo 2 if/when it gets ported. (I can't stand playing FPSs on a console, so no danger of my playing them there.)

DH is not a hacker and since he makes games he tends to be very supportive of using games according to their license.

Some like rumble, some don't. But then that is why you can turn the rumble off. Personally I feel cheated that the American market did not get the trance vibe over here.

Yes, the original Xbox got off to a slow start. I did not get one for like a year after they came out because of lack of games. Halo 2 is out for the PC if you have Vista. It was one of the Vista lauch titles. I don't think there are plans to port it to XP. Probably not with Halo 3 coming out this year and Halo Wars coming out too. Halo 2 has more story than Halo 1, IMO. But it is still a "see how muck sticky you can splatter" game. MY DS worships the Master Chief though. I have to play shooters on the console, I just can't seem to make my fingers work to play them on the PC (as if my horrid typing does not show that) . I prefer games like Final Fantasy myself, with a more detailed story line. Or games where I don't have to think much (sometimes that is nice too) like Katamari Damacy (just turn that infernal music off) Yes, I realize I just listed 2 examples mainly available for Sony platforms.

Oh, and we do have a Wii. I am just not a big Mario factory fan, however my kids are so it gets played often.

Now all that was wayyyyyyy off topic and I get phalangeal diarrhea when it come to talking about games so I will stop.

So OP, made any decisions yet????

 

[steery1]

Im continually swaying between the Pentax K100D and the Sony. Im also now considering the Pentax k10D. (I think the spec is more similair to the Sony than the K100D)

At the moment the Sony is calling me the loudest. Its less expensive than the K10D. But I'm still undecided.

It really is a pain, I'm always indecisive. Wish I could just pick one and be happy with it. Never that simple though.

I'll definitely decide this week though. It'll either be in my hand or on its way within the next few days. The pre-owned lenses and their price/availability will sway it for me. .........(I think )

 

[ukcatfan]

Im continually swaying between the Pentax K100D and the Sony. Im also now considering the Pentax k10D. (I think the spec is more similair to the Sony than the K100D)

At the moment the Sony is calling me the loudest. Its less expensive than the K10D. But I'm still undecided.

It really is a pain, I'm always indecisive. Wish I could just pick one and be happy with it. Never that simple though.

I'll definitely decide this week though. It'll either be in my hand or on its way within the next few days. The pre-owned lenses and their price/availability will sway it for me. .........(I think )

I bought used lenses from http://www.keh.com and I was very happy with them. They seem to be very honest about their grading system. You have to keep checking back with them as the inventory can change daily. Ebay is another common source of used lenses, but just make sure that you are buying from a reputable source.

Kevin