Pennsylvania governor orders flags to be flown at half staff - agree or disagree

[Tiggernut_jadie]

I think that Coach Paterno would have acted differently if he knew that a boy had been raped. I think that had McQueary told him that when he came to his house, then Coach Paterno would have probably made him (McQueary) go to the police station right then and report what he saw.

However, Coach Paterno didn't get that from McQueary. McQueary didn't tell him that he thought that the boy was being raped. He soft peddled it. That fact and the fact that Coach Paterno could not imagine a man doing that to a boy, resulted in Coach Paterno not understanding what truly happened.

So if the boy was only being 'molested' not raped that is ok in the Paterno household then? ANY behaviour towards a minor child is wrong...it does not have to involve penetration to be so!!! What is wrong with you?!!!!!

 

[jrmasm]

I think that Coach Paterno would have acted differently if he knew that a boy had been raped. I think that had McQueary told him that when he came to his house, then Coach Paterno would have probably made him (McQueary) go to the police station right then and report what he saw.

However, Coach Paterno didn't get that from McQueary. McQueary didn't tell him that he thought that the boy was being raped. He soft peddled it. That fact and the fact that Coach Paterno could not imagine a man doing that to a boy, resulted in Coach Paterno not understanding what truly happened.

What McQueary said is not clear. But I don't think it matters. Paterno knew that what McQueary witnessed was not appropriate behavior. Isn't that why he said something the the AD? If he didn't think anything inappropriate happened why did he say anything?

 

[sbell111]

Why thank you very much for the advice. A personal attack on one's intelligence is all you can justify your reasoning with?

First, I don't need to justify my reasing for you to not twist my words. Second, there was non attack on your intelligence. Your intelligence is what it is. What it isn't, however, is viewed as anything more just because you try to twist people words into something that they aren't.

 

[luvmy3]

Coach Paterno didn't 'know or suspect' that a child had been raped because that is not what McQueary told him. As such, he had no expectation that Sandusky would be arrested for the rape of a child and wouldn't be surprised when Sandusky wasn't arrested for something that Coach Paterno knew nothing about.

Then JP is one very stupid man to not suspect something wrong was going on. Last I checked molestation was still illegal, so so what if he wasn't 100% sure the boy was being raped.
There is no defending what he didn't do, you can keep trying but it is pointless.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...tate-scandal/2012/01/22/gIQArxZJJQ_story.html

“Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?” Paterno was asked, according to the grand jury testimony read in court last month.

“Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy,” Paterno replied.

He was asked if he ever heard of any other allegations against Sandusky, who had been the subject of a lengthy campus police investigation four years earlier after a mother complained Sandusky had showered with her young son at the football complex.

“I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it,” Paterno said, adding, “You did mention — I think you said something about a rumor. It may have been discussed in my presence, something else about somebody. I don’t know.”

 

[sbell111]

So if the boy was only being 'molested' not raped that is ok in the Paterno household then? ANY behaviour towards a minor child is wrong...it does not have to involve penetration to be so!!! What is wrong with you?!!!!!

Nothing is wrong with me. Also, as far as I know no one told the coach that a child was 'molested', either. (Also, that most wouldn't know the actual definition of that word so would have to react based on their understanding of it.)

 

[sbell111]

Then JP is one very stupid man to not suspect something wrong was going on. Last I checked molestation was still illegal, so so what if he wasn't 100% sure the boy was being raped.
There is no defending what he didn't do, you can keep trying but it is pointless.

I'm not defending anything, really. Merely stating the facts.

He was told after the fact that someone not of his program was doing something inappropriate with a boy at the facility. He reported what he was told as per the law and university policy.

There's nothing to defend as he did the correct thing.

 

[Geoff_M]

I am pretty sure 73.33% of the people on this thread are considering the actual facts.

What is truly troubling are the 26.7 who are trying to sweep the facts under the rug in order to worship this pathetic old man.

Legendary Football Coach? Absolutely

A Pathetic old man with no moral values and character: Absolutely

Hyperbole much?

I've also found that determining "truth" by popular vote can be quite flawed.

Then JP is one very stupid man to not suspect something wrong was going on. Last I checked molestation was still illegal, so so what if he wasn't 100% sure the boy was being raped.
There is no defending what he didn't do, you can keep trying but it is pointless.

I'm not sure what the controversy is all about... After his firing, Paterno expressly stated that his inaction beyond alerting his superiors was wrong when he admitted "I should have done more."

 

[luvmy3]

I'm not defending anything, really. Merely stating the facts.

He was told after the fact that someone not of his program was doing something inappropriate with a boy at the facility. He reported what he was told as per the law and university policy.

There's nothing to defend as he did the correct thing.

He did the legal minimum by reporting it to his superiors, but make no mistake, he did not do the correct thing.

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

Nothing is wrong with me. Also, as far as I know no one told the coach that a child was 'molested', either. (Also, that most wouldn't know the actual definition of that word so would have to react based on their understanding of it.)

Seriously? What other way could you take the word 'molestation'? Does it have another meaning other than the obvious one?

Besides luvmy3 has posted exactly what Paterno said he was told...see below...how can anyone say they were told a child was being 'fondled' (Paterno's own words mind you!) and not see this as something bad?

“Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?” Paterno was asked, according to the grand jury testimony read in court last month.

“Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy,” Paterno replied.

He was asked if he ever heard of any other allegations against Sandusky, who had been the subject of a lengthy campus police investigation four years earlier after a mother complained Sandusky had showered with her young son at the football complex.

“I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it,” Paterno said, adding, “You did mention — I think you said something about a rumor. It may have been discussed in my presence, something else about somebody. I don’t know.”

 

[WebmasterAlex]

I am pretty sure 73.33% of the people on this thread are considering the actual facts.

What is truly troubling are the 26.7 who are trying to sweep the facts under the rug in order to worship this pathetic old man.

Legendary Football Coach? Absolutely

A Pathetic old man with no moral values and character: Absolutely

Well there's a lot of rug sweeping going on..

One thing that everyone on the anti Paterno side seems to ignore because it's inconvenient is that Joe reported the incident to the head of the Police Department that had jurisdiction in the case.
They are not "security guards" or "campus cops" they are a legitimate law enforcement agency and they had jurisdiction
At the time this occurred Gary Schultz was in charge of that department
We don't know exactly what Mike McQueary told Joe.
What's that leave us with?
Joe is told that something happened. He reports it to the person who is in charge of the police department. He knows there is an investigation. At some point nothing happens but he also knows it was looked in to by the head of the Police. At that point he could have pursued it farther but it's a far cry from what all of the folks wringing their hand "OMG he ignored it!" "He allowed it to happen" would have you believe.

 

[Jennasis]

I could see the University lowering their flags (like Disney did for Steve Jobs) but I can't see any government official sanctioning a lowering any government flags.

 

[HelenePA]

I could see the University lowering their flags (like Disney did for Steve Jobs) but I can't see any government official sanctioning a lowering any government flags.

I'm sure most places would do it anyway... its only on the dis do I hear about people hating Joe... Dh was wondering if they'd even hold classes tonight at his local campus

 

[Art 1]

I voted yes. I think the federal govt. flew the flag half mast for a Senator from Mass. So why not for JP.

 

[Jennasis]

I'm sure most places would do it anyway... its only on the dis do I hear about people hating Joe... Dh was wondering if they'd even hold classes tonight at his local campus

What places are "most places"? The Whitehouse? The state capital? A county courthouse?

Those are the places I'm referring to. I can't see any government office or building lowering a flag for a deceased college football coach, and especially not for one embroiled in the crap that Paterno got stuck in the middle of.

I could absolutely see, and actually expect all of the flags around State College and PSU to be lowered to half staff...possibly at other colleges with football programs as well.

 

[AustinTink]

I'm so sick of hearing this guy's name.

 

[AndyLL]

Well there's a lot of rug sweeping going on..

One thing that everyone on the anti Paterno side seems to ignore because it's inconvenient is that Joe reported the incident to the head of the Police Department that had jurisdiction in the case.

The campus police has no record of this happening and Paterno did not say that under oath.

That 'rumor' started when Paterno was getting hammered by public opinion.

This is simular to the story chaning by mike mcqueary. He said under oath that he witnessed the boy being raped. Read the Grand Jury testomony... it is graphic.

When he got hammered in the court of public opinion about not stopped it guess what? He sent out an email to friends changing the story.

 

[mvazul]

I have not read all 7 pages. After last night, I don't want to. I will make one comment. Please take the time to read the link I am including. Please read it with an open mind. I still believe with every fiber of my being that he did not have the whole story. That people were keeping things from him. I truly believe if he knew exactly what was going on, he would have done more. Just my opinion.


http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7492873/rick-reilly-paterno-true-legacy

Michelle

 

[luvmy3]

The campus police has no record of this happening and Paterno did not say that under oath.

That 'rumor' started when Paterno was getting hammered by public opinion.

This is simular to the story chaning by mike mcqueary. He said under oath that he witnessed the boy being raped. Read the Grand Jury testomony... it is graphic.

When he got hammered in the court of public opinion about not stopped it guess what? He sent out an email to friends changing the story.

And lets not ignore that Shultz was the Sr, VP of Business and Finance. The campus police is a dept under him, but JP reported what he was told to a college exec, not a campus law enforcement officer. Same with McQ, neither went to the actual police, campus or otherwise.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Don't twist my words. It doesn't make you seem smarter.
How could he 'see that nothing is done'? He would have no knowledge as to whether anything has been done by the university, police, or DA since those people do not and would not report to him. This is especially true since he was neither a witness nor was he Sandusky's superior.

Lot's of great people don't cure cancer. Most all of them, actually. As to whether his actions led to a better world, I think that most people who actually looked into the things that he did would agree that his actions over the course of his life certainly did improve the world. If that's your litmus test as to whether the governor did the correct thing, then most should agree with the governor.

He would have no knowledge of whether his supervisor's did anything else. He wouldn't be in that loop.

If the only thing he ever did with his life was teach people how to play football, I would agree with you.
I have no ties to Penn State.

I completely agree with all you've posted, Sbell...and what I meant by things having changed is that if you look back during his lifetime there were times that something like the molestation of young boys was taken care of inside...honestly, there were times during his lifetime when the police would have felt that they had better things to do (not that I agree with that sentiment, but it was definitely there.) The molestation of boys did not come to the forefront nearly as quickly as the molestation of young girls because boys were seen as more able to protect themselves while girls were seen as innocent and helpless (yes, even during Paterno's lifetime.)

 

[Tozzie]

Well there's a lot of rug sweeping going on..

One thing that everyone on the anti Paterno side seems to ignore because it's inconvenient is that Joe reported the incident to the head of the Police Department that had jurisdiction in the case.
They are not "security guards" or "campus cops" they are a legitimate law enforcement agency and they had jurisdiction
At the time this occurred Gary Schultz was in charge of that department
We don't know exactly what Mike McQueary told Joe.
What's that leave us with?
Joe is told that something happened. He reports it to the person who is in charge of the police department. He knows there is an investigation. At some point nothing happens but he also knows it was looked in to by the head of the Police. At that point he could have pursued it farther but it's a far cry from what all of the folks wringing their hand "OMG he ignored it!" "He allowed it to happen" would have you believe.

Not quite true, he reported it to a vice president who overseas the campus police, he didn't report it to the police, the vice president is not a sworn law enforcement officer, therefore he has zero police powers, he should have notified the police, not a University Vice President.