Pennsylvania governor orders flags to be flown at half staff - agree or disagree

[trip]

You need another choice in your poll.

Don't care

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

If I apply your logic to our state, then our Governors over the last 10 years could also be criticized for flying flags here at half-staff whenever we lose a Michigander in Iraq or Afghanistan, since if we interpret those guidelines as being exclusive in nature, would also be "improper".

I'm not a PSU grad, or connected to PA in anyway. I also think that PSU did the right thing in firing Paterno. However... I have an understanding that what Paterno did over his unparallelled career was a whole lot more than just teaching guys to run around and throw an oblong inflated leather ball. It's that understanding that makes his act of incredibly bad judgement that led to his firing even more mind boggling. Go ahead and get your knickers in the twist if you want about flags in Pennsylvania being lowered, or stadium lights being turned on at night, or whatever you like.... but to me Paterno's passive response about what people told him about Sandusky isn't much more than a sad post-script to a much broader story.

I also don't agree with the critics in the OP's story that saying your sad that someone has died is tantamount to being "insensitive" to anyone or "ignoring" a moral lapse.

well said!

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

I live here in PA (I'm a transplant - grew up in Cleveland). I have no problem with it. JoePa was a hero to a LOT of people, and not just in PA. He and his wife did do much for Penn State and the students and players. This Buckeye fan is mourning his loss with the Nittany Nation. The tragic events that ended his career do not, in my mind, define Joe Paterno the man. Unfortunately, they do define him to a lot of others.

Rest in Peace, Joe. And to the Penn State fans, know that Joe is no longer in any physical or mental or emotional anguish.

What a shame the same can't be said for those poor boys who could have gone through their life unmolested if he'd had a conscience!

No way should the flags be at half mast...

 

[focusondisney]

I strongly disagree.

I would disagree with it if this scandal never happened. He was a football coach for crying out loud! He's not that special.

Do they fly the flag at half staff for truly great teachers or people who donate just as much or more money than Paterno did?


What kind of world do we live in when a college football coach is so revered like this?

My thoughts exactly!

I don't agree with it, but it has nothing to do with the whole scandal thing. I just think that's an honor that should be reserved for military, police, etc.

I agree: this is an honor that should be reserved for heroes & statesman. I don't think being well liked makes you a hero, whether you are a football coach, movie star or athlete. Military, police, fireman, someone who puts their own life on the line for others:those are my idea of heros.

As far as Ted Kennedy & Richard Nixon deserving this honor: they were men who truely deserved this honor but were involved in scandal/ possibly illegal activities. But their deaths were far removed from these events & they had time to redeem themselves with the public. Paterno's involvement in this scandal was unfortunately still current. Most of the public has not had time to forgive him.

If Paterno was a veteran who distinguished himself while in the service, I could see him being deserving of this honor, if this scandal hadn't happened or if it had happened years ago. But since it is all so current, honoring him as a hero is an insult to the victims.

 

[Pigeon]

Even had he not turned his back on child abuse, I'd still be disgusted by making a big to do about a football coach. I can't think of many professions that are less important and have less to do with improving the welfare of society.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I voted No.

I voted No because Joe Paterno was a football coach for PSU. Regardless of what happened with Jerry Sandusky and how culpable JoePa was, flags at half staff should NOT have been ordered.

Service men or state stroopers who died in the line of duty? A governor or cabinet member who died in office? OK. Flight 93? Yes. A football coach? No.

 

[Disney Doll]

My observations:

In other threads, those who speak in support of Coach Paterno in terms of him having done "everything he could" by reporting what he knew use the argument that he "was only the footbal coach and reported the behavior to the proper people at the university and THEY are the ones responsible for not taking it further"...and so forth.

So he was "only the football" coach and had no power in the University to make the right thing happen???

Then why does he need a flag flown at half-staff if he was "only a football coach"?

The fact that folks think the flag should be flown at half-staff for Coach Paterno leads me to think he had more "power" than the average college football coach. He should have used that power to stop the molestation when he heard about it.

It could have been a very simple statement:

Coach Paterno: "Board of Directors and university officials, it has come to my attention that Mr.Sandusky is sexually molesting young boys. I will allow you 24 hours to go to the police, begin the investigation into what happened and do whatever necessary to make it right for these boys. If I don't hear a big announcement from you tomorrow with regard to this, including an action plan of what you intend to do to rectify it to the best of your ability, I will be going to the police and the media".

Do you think anyone at Penn State would have told him to shut up and sit down because he was "just the football coach". I doubt it.....

That being said, Coach Paterno cannot be held wholly and singly responsible for this mess, since there were numerous people involved who dropped the ball in a big way. Unfortunately for Coach Paterno, as the most "visible" and well known representative of Penn State, his reputation is going to take the beating....one of the drawbacks of fame.

There really isn't a lot of gray in this one folks, as much as everyone would like to try and convince us there is. If you know about child molestation, you report it to the police. It's a crime. It's their job to investigate, not the University's Board of Directors.

But you report it.

 

[sbell111]

... The one I put the most blame on by far (other than Sandusky, of course) is McQueary. He was young enough that he had been raised knowing that what he saw was wrong and what to do about it. Yet, he didn't know what to do and instead of doing what he should, he called his daddy? If he were a real man, he would have called 911 and Sandusky would have been at least unconscious by the time the cops got there.

I completely agree. McQueary should have stepped in and taken teh child out of that situation, rather than retreating and doing nothing more than telling Coach Paterno about it a day or two later.

This is the second time you have posted this.

Do you really want all of us to believe that raping young boys was ok back in Paterno's younger days? That because he was old, he didn't realize it was no longer acceptable in today's world?

I think that the poster was referring to the changes to the reporting requirements over time. Of course, as it turns out Coach Paterno acted appropriately based on the reporting requirements in place in 2002.

And nobody is debating that McQueary is not equally to blame. But Paterno was the one in charge, so everbody looked to him as the leader, thus modeling keeping quiet is so much worse.

Paterno was not in charge of Sandusky in 2002.

I don't respect Paterno. I lose all respect for any person who would willingly turn their back on a child who was being sexually abused. They are on the same level as the abuser.

Ummm, it was McQueary that turned his back on a child who was being abused. Paterno wasn't told about it until a day or two later.

So many people in these threads are simply feeding off of each other's rancor, rather than considering the actual facts. It's truly troubling.

 

[happygirl]

He was just a football coach that it, I feel like flags should only be flown at half staff in honor of hero's.

A foootball coach isn't a hero, even without all the other stuff that happend.

 

[phorsenuf]

So what would happen if a business didn't lower their flags? What if they objected on moral grounds. Is there some type of fine or anything?

 

[declansdad]

What did he do besides coach football? Here are some examples: http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/44244/your-joe-paterno-tributes
As far as not doing what he should have done (or what he thought he should have done), he was an old man by the time the behavior happened...Many things had changed during his lifetime. The one I put the most blame on by far (other than Sandusky, of course) is McQueary. He was young enough that he had been raised knowing that what he saw was wrong and what to do about it. Yet, he didn't know what to do and instead of doing what he should, he called his daddy? If he were a real man, he would have called 911 and Sandusky would have been at least unconscious by the time the cops got there.

There is nothing in that list of tributes that is any different than many other people.

Many things have changed in his lifetime, you say. I don't think rape and assault has ever been acceptable in his lifetime.

I took a quote from one of the tributes you linked:

What we all learned painfully over the last three months and were reminded of again poignantly this morning was that Joe Paterno was just a man - decent and caring but also flawed and vulnerable like the rest of us. I hope we can remember the man for both his successes and his failures and, in time, come to appreciate what he contributed to Penn State.

I think this person got it right when he said "he was just a man."

 

[Heidict]

the reasons I believe this have already been posted in previous threads, which were closed for the nastiness and back and forth.

For those reasons, I voted and stated my feelings. For those reasons, I will not contribute to the nastiness or back and forth.

I wasn't asking for nastiness. I was respectfully asking why you felt that way in order to understand the your views and/or reasoning. If you don't want to explain yourself, fine.

 

[declansdad]

he totally deserves it - sorry if you disagree.

Why?

 

[sbell111]

My observations:

In other threads, those who speak in support of Coach Paterno in terms of him having done "everything he could" by reporting what he knew use the argument that he "was only the footbal coach and reported the behavior to the proper people at the university and THEY are the ones responsible for not taking it further"...and so forth.

So he was "only the football" coach and had no power in the University to make the right thing happen???

Then why does he need a flag flown at half-staff if he was "only a football coach"?

The fact that folks think the flag should be flown at half-staff for Coach Paterno leads me to think he had more "power" than the average college football coach. He should have used that power to stop the molestation when he heard about it.

It could have been a very simple statement:

Coach Paterno: "Board of Directors and university officials, it has come to my attention that Mr.Sandusky is sexually molesting young boys. I will allow you 24 hours to go to the police, begin the investigation into what happened and do whatever necessary to make it right for these boys. If I don't hear a big announcement from you tomorrow with regard to this, including an action plan of what you intend to do to rectify it to the best of your ability, I will be going to the police and the media".

Do you think anyone at Penn State would have told him to shut up and sit down because he was "just the football coach". I doubt it.....

That being said, Coach Paterno cannot be held wholly and singly responsible for this mess, since there were numerous people involved who dropped the ball in a big way. Unfortunately for Coach Paterno, as the most "visible" and well known representative of Penn State, his reputation is going to take the beating....one of the drawbacks of fame.

There really isn't a lot of gray in this one folks, as much as everyone would like to try and convince us there is. If you know about child molestation, you report it to the police. It's a crime. It's their job to investigate, not the University's Board of Directors.

But you report it.

First, it should be noted that he was the football coach. Also, it should be remembered that he found out a day or two after the fact that someone who is not affiliated with the football program had possibly abused a boy in the athletic facility. He reported this information to the two people who were legally be responsible (both for allowing Sandusky continued use of the facilities and for reporting to the authorities) the athletic director and the university president.

Next, lets remember that in 2002, the football team was just coming off two losing seasons. While it's true that people weren't clamoring for Coach Paterno's resignation, one can assume that he didn't have too much ability to threaten. Also, it's not really in his nature to make the kind of threats that you propose. He was more of a straight shooter, in your lane, kind of guy. He reported what he had heard to the people that were supposed to deal with it. I can't imagine that he would think that it would be necessary to threaten them at that time.

Finally, (this goes back to the 'times have changed' position) he didn't witness anything. He heard second hand after a day or two delay that someone outside of his sphere of responsibility might have abused a child who also had nothing to do with his sphere of responsibility. He might certainly have reasonably believed that he couldn't or shouldn't file a complaint about such actions. Instead, he took the reasonable (and legally appropriate) action of reporting what he had been told to those who were in positions of responsibility over the situation, the university president and the athletic director.

 

[happygirl]

So what would happen if a business didn't lower their flags? What if they objected on moral grounds. Is there some type of fine or anything?

I would hope not. I don't think the government can force you to fly a flag at half mass.
.

 

[declansdad]

I completely agree. McQueary should have stepped in and taken teh child out of that situation, rather than retreating and doing nothing more than telling Coach Paterno about it a day or two later.

I think that the poster was referring to the changes to the reporting requirements over time. Of course, as it turns out Coach Paterno acted appropriately based on the reporting requirements in place in 2002.
Paterno was not in charge of Sandusky in 2002.
Ummm, it was McQueary that turned his back on a child who was being abused. Paterno wasn't told about it until a day or two later.

So many people in these threads are simply feeding off of each other's rancor, rather than considering the actual facts. It's truly troubling.

Sorry, spin it all you want but he knew and he washed his hands of it and tried to hide behind "I reported it to my superiors."

The people you mention and Paterno all have a share of the blame.

 

[sbell111]

So what would happen if a business didn't lower their flags? What if they objected on moral grounds. Is there some type of fine or anything?

The governor's decision only affects those flags flown by state agencies.

He was just a football coach that it, I feel like flags should only be flown at half staff in honor of hero's.

A foootball coach isn't a hero, even without all the other stuff that happend.

Many of the men who went through Coach Paterno's program would disagree, as would those people that he influenced outside of the program.

 

[happygirl]

The governor's decision only affects those flags flown by state agencies.

Many of the men who went through Coach Paterno's program would disagree, as would those people that he influenced outside of the program.

That really sad. Then. Football is a game that all

 

[sbell111]

Sorry, spin it all you want but he knew and he washed his hands of it and tried to hide behind "I reported it to my superiors."

The people you mention and Paterno all have a share of the blame.

I believe that you truly believe what you typed. However, your position doesn't seem to be supported by the facts. I'll not make my mind up based on your or any one else's attempt at reading a dead man's mind.

 

[sbell111]

That really sad. Then. Football is a game that all

I think that what's sad is that many believe that it's just a game and that a person can get no more out of the experience than how to play football. Thankfully, people like Coach Paterno disagree with that position.