PayPal Rage....GRRRR!

[ajh88]

I just have to get this off my chest because I'm really worked up about it right now and I can't focus on anything else.

I have sold on Ebay for almost 8 years now and my feedback is approaching 1500. I'm not high volume, but I sell a fair amount a couple of times a year. I have used PayPal for a good portion of that time as well. In the time I have been a seller, I have had TWO claims against me - one was for item not as described and the other for item not received. The not described was several years ago and the buyer was a scammer who would file chargebacks about a month after the transaction. The item was only 99 cents, but it was ruled in my favor so all was well.

The not received just happened. I sold an item and the auction ended Oct. 29th. I shipped on Nov. 2nd - it was international and I had to go to the post office rather than doing PayPal shipping from home. I have the customs form with tracking number to prove the date of shipment. According to tracking, the item was delivered on November 17th. On Nov. 20th, I get a message from the buyer asking how long it would take for them to get it. I reiterate the tracking number and ask them to check with their mail carrier. On Nov. 25th, they open a claim for item not received. I'm like OK, I have followed the Seller Protection policy perfectly - shipped to the confirmed address on file at PayPal, have a tracking number, shipped within 7 days. I'm not worried - ticked, but not worried. I provided all documents to PayPal and they are "reviewing" the case. Today I get an email that after "careful consideration" they have ruled in favor of the buyer. and

The total was only $31 and I know I should just let it go. The thing is, I'm out the ebay fees, the PayPal fees, and the $15 shipping because the buyer got ALL their money back (even though I have proof of shipment). So, not only do they have my item, but I'm out about $20. I would be inclined to be more sympathetic, but when you check the feedback they have left for others, there are at least EIGHT! other cases in the past month where they are claiming item not received. I want to appeal with PayPal, but there is something messed up on their site right now where I can't do it. I'm just mad that people are such scammers - but then again, I suppose I should be thankful that I've run across so very few of them in all my time on ebay. We won't talk about the person who bid one of my items up to $300 and then decided she wouldn't pay...

OK, vent over - it's only money and it could be a lot worse. I'll just believe in Karma instead.

 

[alohamom]

I know exactly how you feel, I had a similar situation happen. What I HATED was the way the buyer treated me, like I was trying to defraud THEM!!!I am in canada so I was able to get my shipping costs back from Canada Post as they were never able to prove it was delivered but the frusteration it caused was hard to take, I was mad for quite a while! Hang in there...

 

[IDoDis]

Awww, that really stinks! It could be that the buyer did not get their package and it was delivered to the wrong address. Just the other day we received an envelope from a mortgage company that was sent via overnight FedEx. It was taped to our front door when we got home from work. It belonged a neighbor at the other end of the block. I walked it over to their house. This was a VERY important document that they needed to have. Had I not walked it over there, they'd have never received it, even though FedEx had marked that it was delivered to the correct address.

We've also received packages before that should have gone to a house with the same house address, but they live one street up from us. The last package also had a USPS delivery confirmation tag on it.

The package to your buyer may end up appearing. If so, hopefully that person will be honest and return the funds to you that will be given to him. I thought on international shipping orders there was at least a 30 day wait time before someone can file a dispute. Did that change?

Now, I know this is rotten for you because you did everything you needed to do, but think how you would feel if you purchased something online and had it shipped to your house, but you never received it, even though the company has proof that they shipped it. You'd either want another package shipped or you'd want your money back.

If you think this ebay buyer is truly a scammer, then see if there is a way to appeal the decision. Also, if it were me, I'd send a note the buyer asking him nicely to please return the funds back to me if the package does show up.

Good luck!

 

[horseshowmom]

I just have to get this off my chest because I'm really worked up about it right now and I can't focus on anything else.

I have sold on Ebay for almost 8 years now and my feedback is approaching 1500. I'm not high volume, but I sell a fair amount a couple of times a year. I have used PayPal for a good portion of that time as well. In the time I have been a seller, I have had TWO claims against me - one was for item not as described and the other for item not received. The not described was several years ago and the buyer was a scammer who would file chargebacks about a month after the transaction. The item was only 99 cents, but it was ruled in my favor so all was well.

The not received just happened. I sold an item and the auction ended Oct. 29th. I shipped on Nov. 2nd - it was international and I had to go to the post office rather than doing PayPal shipping from home. I have the customs form with tracking number to prove the date of shipment. According to tracking, the item was delivered on November 17th. On Nov. 20th, I get a message from the buyer asking how long it would take for them to get it. I reiterate the tracking number and ask them to check with their mail carrier. On Nov. 25th, they open a claim for item not received. I'm like OK, I have followed the Seller Protection policy perfectly - shipped to the confirmed address on file at PayPal, have a tracking number, shipped within 7 days. I'm not worried - ticked, but not worried. I provided all documents to PayPal and they are "reviewing" the case. Today I get an email that after "careful consideration" they have ruled in favor of the buyer. and

The total was only $31 and I know I should just let it go. The thing is, I'm out the ebay fees, the PayPal fees, and the $15 shipping because the buyer got ALL their money back (even though I have proof of shipment). So, not only do they have my item, but I'm out about $20. I would be inclined to be more sympathetic, but when you check the feedback they have left for others, there are at least EIGHT! other cases in the past month where they are claiming item not received. I want to appeal with PayPal, but there is something messed up on their site right now where I can't do it. I'm just mad that people are such scammers - but then again, I suppose I should be thankful that I've run across so very few of them in all my time on ebay. We won't talk about the person who bid one of my items up to $300 and then decided she wouldn't pay...

OK, vent over - it's only money and it could be a lot worse. I'll just believe in Karma instead.

Definitely appeal, and let us know what you find out. If they will refund money under the circumstances you described, I sure don't want to sell anything else. Did they give you a rationale for refunding the money?

 

[ajh88]

Nope, no rationale given - just that they ruled in favor of the buyer. I'm waiting to hear back from PayPal "customer service", if it can be called that. I think I'm angriest because its like this claim validates the buyer's supposition that it was never sent - I don't like being perceived as dishonest because I am not. I followed all their rules and they still ruled against me - that doesn't leave me feeling very protected, KWIM?

ETA: I suppose I hadn't given a lot of thought to whether or not the buyer could be telling the truth, simply because it seems a lot of packages were 'not received', then they would leave negative or neutral FB about it. Honestly, if they didn't get it, I'm glad they got their money back because I wouldn't want to be on that end of it either. I do value my ebay reputation and I *am* an honest seller - but this person could be my first black mark in nearly 8 years, even though they got their money back. People will still shop at TRU or Target, even if I say I don't like them, but once an ebay buyer claims to have been ripped off, it can be a different story - I know I certainly shy away from sellers with less than stellar feedback.

 

[pandora174]

See something opposite happened to us last year with 2 purchases, not from E-Bay but HSN & Dooney & Burke. Both were delivered by UPS & left in plain view on my front step. Our neighborhood at the time had a few empty rental homes so there was a lot of driving by to see the homes.

Well you guessed it, came home & no packages. Showed delivered on front step. Luckily when I called, HSN immediately sent me a a replacement but Dooney & Burke wanted me to file a complaint with UPS which would of taken forever. I simply filed a complaint with BOA & signed all the docs & got my $ back & went to Macy's & bought my gift there. I did follow through & filed a report to UPS & let them know I received my $ back from BOA. Guess what since 2008 till last wewk I get random calls from UPS asking if I found my items ?? So if I hadn't of filed the complaint with BOA I'd still be waiting on my $ for UPS to investgate. A little OT sorry but frustrated at D&B attitude of "well it was delivered, not our problem" while HSN customer service was amazing.

Just to say not everyone is out to scam. In our case with UPS a driver came for us to sign the forms on the cases & told me during the holiday season they had lots of temp inexperienced driver & he would of hidden the boxes. From now on it's signature only with UPS (I requested same). Your case is obviously different since your buyer had so many similar feedbacks. But we've also had our neighbors packages & fed ex, USPS etc. delivered to us because most of the homes look the same & start with the same 2 #'s.

 

[horseshowmom]

Nope, no rationale given - just that they ruled in favor of the buyer. I'm waiting to hear back from PayPal "customer service", if it can be called that. I think I'm angriest because its like this claim validates the buyer's supposition that it was never sent - I don't like being perceived as dishonest because I am not. I followed all their rules and they still ruled against me - that doesn't leave me feeling very protected, KWIM?

ETA: I suppose I hadn't given a lot of thought to whether or not the buyer could be telling the truth, simply because it seems a lot of packages were 'not received', then they would leave negative or neutral FB about it. Honestly, if they didn't get it, I'm glad they got their money back because I wouldn't want to be on that end of it either. I do value my ebay reputation and I *am* an honest seller - but this person could be my first black mark in nearly 8 years, even though they got their money back. People will still shop at TRU or Target, even if I say I don't like them, but once an ebay buyer claims to have been ripped off, it can be a different story - I know I certainly shy away from sellers with less than stellar feedback.

The only thing I would say about their situation is that if I had that many packages that had not been received, I would be contacting the delivery company. I might wonder about a seller for one (maybe even two), but not EIGHT (particularly when the seller has proof of shipment).

I will be very disappointed if Paypal does not resolve this issue in your favor. I can't believe that you are responsible for putting the package in their hands! If they've authorized packages to be left, then they are responsible for them once they have been delivered (or should be anyway).

 

[bumbershoot]

Since it was international, could the tracking info show it delivered to the Customs office? DH had to ship to India last month, and they have to actually pick things up at Customs. When I worked at amazon.com there were many countries like that. I wonder if the customers you sold to are forgetting that part?

 

[singnring]

OP, make sure you appeal the decision and send Paypal ALL of your documentation and correspondence.

We had the same thing happen almost a year ago. Buyer bought 6 lots of books from us.
Shipping was combined to save him/her money and we put everything in 3 boxes to ship.

Buyer claimed only 2 arrived. Said they were going to file a dispute if we didn't make it right and refund partial pmt.
We asked them to give it a few more days, as USPS is not always reliable and maybe #3 would show up.
Buyer agreed to wait, filed dispute the next morning.

PP sided with buyer and refunded the money for all 6 auctions because pmt was made in one transaction!! Buyer admitted he got 2/3 of the books!! We were up in arms about it, and we filed an appeal.

Ended up on the phone a few times with PP and in the process learned that PP will side with the buyer automatically in most cases.
If the Seller doesn't appeal, nothing more will be done about it. You have to appeal and provide proof of your delivery confirmation.

So don't give up. It is a pain to sell on Ebay now because of the way they run things. They seem to think only sellers are scamers. THey don't seem t realize buyers are just as likely to scam a seller, probably more so now that they side with buyers in dispute cases!

We got most of our money back from the seller, even though PP agreed that they probably received the third pkg at some point.

Unfortunately, Ebay allowed them to leave neg feedback on all six of the auctions and would not take it off our profile in spite of the fact that PP eventually sided with us.

I will never sell on Ebay again because of this situation.
DH still does, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

 

[kim929]

I used to work for my BIL when he had his internet toy business. We would ship over seas and because the boxes were very large, the customer wouldn't pay for shipping that would provide tracking because it was very expensive. He shipped overseas for years without a problem. At first we only took visa/mc but then paypal came along and we accepted that. We had a few overseas shipments disputed and because we couldn't prove the item shipped due to not having a tracking number, paypal gave the customer back all their money and it was a few hundred dollars. So we stopped accepting paypal for international customers unless they paid for the tracking.
Paypal doesn't look out for the seller at all.