Paying for fastpass in 2006?????

[raidermatt]

Hmmm... "that may change" -- I cannot see how such a statement can be anything other than absolutely true. Saying that something may change isn't saying very much at all.

Yes, very true. They cannot be any more or less wrong than if they said nothing at all.

But as YoHo points out, the significance to this as opposed to it being in any other guide is that this is the "official" guide, meaning its done with Disney's cooperation. Again, certainly that doesn't mean anything will definitely change.

With these in our pockets we would sleep in (I know thats just us with teens), grab breakfast and take our time (maybe even swim first) and accomplish the exact same result totally refreshed.

That's fine. Sounds very relaxing. But you also have to ask yourself if this is something Disney would be happy about. Believe me, I'm with you, that if you are that much happier about your total experience, that's probably a very good thing, because you'll be willing to pay more for your room and visit more often.

But at the same time, many of the people in the parks DO spend money while they are wandering from ride to ride, and we know that Disney is very concerned about maximizing this kind of spending.

Perhaps they will make these kinds of changes. I'm just saying its not a simple decision for them, even if they have the technology ready to go.

 

[macraven]

It's not from an article, its from the Birnbaum "Official" WDW guide, published in October. If memory serves, its on page 5, but I don't have my copy with me.

It simply says that FP is currently free, but that may change in 2006 for all but Deluxe resort guests.

Since Birnbaum is the only "official" guide, the statement carries some weight and is more than simply random speculation. But again, all it says is that all but Deluxe resort guests maybe charged.

raidermatt, i am confused. i just sent you the link to the article that i was mentioning. it is not from the birnbaum book.
i read about this on another board and just don't know if it is true about disney and their future with the fast pass system.
i didn't want to post here in case i am talking about the wrong thing. nothing like having hundreds of people laugh at you when you make boo boos.......lol.......and i make many mistakes i trying to post sometimes.

 

[jade1]

That's fine. Sounds very relaxing. But you also have to ask yourself if this is something Disney would be happy about. Believe me, I'm with you, that if you are that much happier about your total experience, that's probably a very good thing, because you'll be willing to pay more for your room and visit more often.

But at the same time, many of the people in the parks DO spend money while they are wandering from ride to ride, and we know that Disney is very concerned about maximizing this kind of spending.
QUOTE]

Its a concern and Disney will know whats the best route.

I cant quite follow the spending ride to ride theory though. You are comparing someone staying off site (lost revenue from the room, and going off site every time they go to their room is taking spending power away from Disney) to someone staying onsite (Room Revenue) and spending all of their money at Disney Resorts-breakfast/lunch/snacks/shopping- and heading in daily to the Disney Parks (partly because of this great perk) for ticket revenue and the rest of their spending dollar, plus willing to pay more for the room and visit more often.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

One of the big problems would be making ARR's (Advance Ride Reservations) prior to arriving at your resort. Plus, Disney would have to work out whether your FP limit is based on the resort you were staying when you made the ARR or the resort you are staying the night of their use.

Right now ADR's are non-discriminatory with regard to whether you are staying on property or off, with the only distinction for those staying concierge. In addition to your ticket, then, ARR's would have to be tied to a specific room key as well to verify resort occupancy when making the reservation.

Umm...could just see it now, "Please insert you room key into slot A, next, insert your Ticket you will be using into slot B...sorry, if you do not have either a resort key or ticket we will be unable to verify FP user with resort stay and therefore are unable to make an ARR for you!"

-R

 

[SoCalKDG]

Umm...could just see it now, "Please insert you room key into slot A, next, insert your Ticket you will be using into slot B...sorry, if you do not have either a resort key or ticket we will be unable to verify FP user with resort stay and therefore are unable to make an ARR for you!"

-R

All you need is your Room Key. You have the ARR coded directly to that key. Choose a couple FP's the night before, encode your room key at the hotel. Get to the park, go to appropriate FP machine anytime before your reservation, stick your room key in, out comes the appropriate FP ticket with your reserved time on it. Simple.

 

[bicker]

Right now ADR's are non-discriminatory with regard to whether you are staying on property or off

However, it wasn't always that way. Back when PS was limited to resort guests only, guests were able to make PSs on day of arrival and day of departure.

In addition to your ticket, then, ARR's would have to be tied to a specific room key as well to verify resort occupancy when making the reservation.

Which is why most folks have their admission placed onto their room keys.

 

[jade1]

All you need is your Room Key. You have the ARR coded directly to that key. Choose a couple FP's the night before, encode your room key at the hotel. Get to the park, go to appropriate FP machine anytime before your reservation, stick your room key in, out comes the appropriate FP ticket with your reserved time on it. Simple.

Sure, or you pick up your FP's when you check in (the same little printed ones you currently get) with Ride/Date/Time on them, if you do any the night before or even the morning of (like from your room TV-which is basically just putting a FP machine in your room electronically and it would know how many FP's that room has already reserved and how many it has left per day), you still could just pick them up at the front desk. That would also verify which hotel you ultimately are staying in etc.

 

[zagafi]

However, it wasn't always that way. Back when PS was limited to resort guests only, guests were able to make PSs on day of arrival and day of departure.

Which is why most folks have their admission placed onto their room keys.

Except for those pesky Annual Passholders and their ilk.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

Which is why most folks have their admission placed onto their room keys.

But that only works if you purchase admission to coincide with your stay at a resort; it doesn't work if you have a ten-day non-expiring pass and you're only using days 4 - 8 during a stay, does it?

All you need is your Room Key. You have the ARR coded directly to that key. Choose a couple FP's the night before, encode your room key at the hotel. Get to the park, go to appropriate FP machine anytime before your reservation, stick your room key in, out comes the appropriate FP ticket with your reserved time on it. Simple.

But you would either need to do this from the resort you are staying or somehow have a passcode that would allow any terminal to authorize the no. of ARR's you are allowed. Scenario - a person is staying at POP but is having dinner at Boma, he realizes he wants to make an ARR for Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, and Soarin' for the next day; how does the computer know he's only allowed 2 ARR's and not give him all three?

Booking through your room TV sounds about the simplest way to go...

However, it wasn't always that way. Back when PS was limited to resort guests only, guests were able to make PSs on day of arrival and day of departure.

Remember the phone banks at the base of SE where you could call and make PS's? I don't think we realized you could make them if you aren't at a park already, though I do remember only resort guests could make PS's for a different day.

 

[raidermatt]

macraven, sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were asking the first time. There are two basic "sources" for the speculation. One is Jim Hill's article from back in May.

Jim Hill on pay for FP

The other is the blurb in the Birnbaum book.

What exactly IS Disney going to change and how? We don't know. Jim Hill says to look for it in '07, but he's certainly been wrong before, and even his article acknowledges that Disney has concerns about making FP a perk for only the "upper level" guests.

The Birnbaum guide just makes a generic statement about the possibility of all being charged but Deluxe guests.

Obviously there is a basis for the speculation. There's sort of two issues. One is adding different ways of getting FPs, like through your TV in your resort room, over your cell phone, or on the internet.

The other issue is whether a hierarchical system will be implemented, where certain guests, like those staying in Deluxe resorts, get increased access to the system while other guests, like off-site and Value/Mod resort guests, get decreased access.

Whether either will actually be implemented, or should be implemented, is anybody's guess at this point, hence the discussion.

You are comparing someone staying off site (lost revenue from the room, and going off site every time they go to their room is taking spending power away from Disney) to someone staying onsite (Room Revenue) and spending all of their money at Disney Resorts-

What I'm comparing is somebody staying on-site and spending money in the park all day vs. somebody staying on-site and lounging in the pool for half the day. Not that anything is wrong with either, or even that Disney wants to get rid of either. I'm just saying they will have serious concerns about doing anything that might move people from the first category to the second.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

What I'm comparing is somebody staying on-site and spending money in the park all day vs. somebody staying on-site and lounging in the pool for half the day. Not that anything is wrong with either, or even that Disney wants to get rid of either. I'm just saying they will have serious concerns about doing anything that might move people from the first category to the second.

But Disney also knows that you can't force people into the parks every minute of every day they are on property or they will be burn out too quickly and leave WDW before their allotted 8.5 days are up (or whatever magical no. Disney has calculated to be the optimal stay). Outside of meals (which really aren't that overwhelmingly profitable), Disney makes their biggest profit from cheap snacks, souvenir sales, and alcohol. If I was being cynical and negative, I might have to admit that attractions are becoming a means to an end instead of the end purpose itself.

Unless they give some huge incentive to resort guests like deeply discounted park admission added to, and good for either the day before or after your room stay, Disney can maximize a person's stay on property for only so long...eventually most of us have to get back to reality or run out of money. And if Disney increases their resort prices too much, even with all the added benefits, most people will start figuring it's cheaper to stay offsite at almost half the cost of a Disney property and add a couple more "leisurely" days of parks, than try to cram everything into the fewer days a person can afford because they are on property.

Admittedly, right now Disney is drawing people away from other attractions/resorts in the area, but one misstep by increasing rates too quickly or starting to charge for amenities that were once free could halt that rate quickly. I don't know what the percentage is but not everyone going to WDW are lifers or DISers and if they have a bad experience because they don't know all the "ins" they won't return and all Disney has in the end created is a resort complex for long-term followers, or DVC'ers.

FP is simple at the moment and people that use it definitely like it, but will they pay for it, in whatever guise it's presented, is another matter...

-R

 

[raidermatt]

Just remember, Disney has promised double digit earnings growth.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Of course they have Matt, who would be happy in the 21st Century with a 1% growth perdiction?

 

[YoHo]

I think plenty of people would be happy with 9% growth though, or a long term plan that saw significant growth a year or two from now...

 

[bicker]

Remember the phone banks at the base of SE where you could call and make PS's? I don't think we realized you could make them if you aren't at a park already, though I do remember only resort guests could make PS's for a different day.

Yes, that's what I meant: Only resort guests could make advance PS reservations, but were allowed to do so for both their day of arrival and day of departure.

 

[raidermatt]

Of course they have Matt, who would be happy in the 21st Century with a 1% growth perdiction?

Where did I say 1% would be satisfactory? In ANY century?

Regardless, the best projection is one you can meet while keeping your business in the best place for future growth/success.

The point with the parks being 10% growth might not fit that criteria, particularly when you are trying to limit capital investment, and 6.5% attendance growth is considered a great year.

 

[ltp74]

I thought the whole point of the Fastpass system was to keep people out of lines and in shops and buying snacks? If they go to a pay or resort guest only system that is going to put people back in lines and there will be more people in line than ones willing to pay $20 per person to use Fastpass and that would bring the snack and shop revenue down. If Disney goes to a everyone must stay on property and all off-site guests are 2nd class attitude they are going to lose alot of customers and drive away ones who maybe make a few visit's in a lifetime and can't or don't want to stay in a Disney resort.

 

[jade1]

I thought the whole point of the Fastpass system was to keep people out of lines and in shops and buying snacks? If they go to a pay or resort guest only system that is going to put people back in lines and there will be more people in line than ones willing to pay $20 per person to use Fastpass and that would bring the snack and shop revenue down. If Disney goes to a everyone must stay on property and all off-site guests are 2nd class attitude they are going to lose alot of customers and drive away ones who maybe make a few visit's in a lifetime and can't or don't want to stay in a Disney resort.

Pretty sure it was also introduced as a "convenience" in the parks to entice new visitors as well as keep many folks coming back because of this new improved system. Allowing folks to spend money while waiting is also a good reason as you suggest. The new system will still dispense FP's in the parks just as it does now so it wont effect offsite guests as much as you think and may very well help them with fewer onsite guests in the lines to obtain a FP. That said the new "improved convenience" would entice offsite guests to stay onsite and capture all of thier spending dollars. Snack and shop revenue may go down in the parks (it may go up if this is popular enough to help fill the parks) but will increase in the resorts.

 

[bicker]

I thought the whole point of the Fastpass system was to keep people out of lines and in shops and buying snacks? If they go to a pay or resort guest only system that is going to put people back in lines

Almost assuredly not. Any change would probably be, at worst, a zero-sum proposition, moving a FastPass from one guest to another -- not vaporizing FastPasses that would have otherwise existed.

In other words, the number of guests using FastPass wouldn't change; the number of guests using Stand By queues wouldn't change. The only thing that may change is precisely which guests are where.

If Disney goes to a everyone must stay on property and all off-site guests are 2nd class attitude they are going to lose alot of customers

Again, almost assuredly not, since there are already even stronger prioritizations afforded to Disney resort guests over off-site guests than the rumored FastPass prioritization would be, including EMH, free Disney Transportation, the priority Disney Transportation has over off-site hotel transportation, etc.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

Again, almost assuredly not, since there are already even stronger prioritizations afforded to Disney resort guests over off-site guests than the rumored FastPass prioritization would be, including EMH, free Disney Transportation, the priority Disney Transportation has over off-site hotel transportation, etc.

The difference here is that once a guest entered the park, the "class" of service a person received was indiscriminatory (well, at least theoretically). Mentally, I think a distinction can be made between the level of service an onsite guest receives and what an offsite guest receives in regards to "supporting services," i.e., transportation, no. of hours in a park, etc., can be relegated to "outside the gates" since during the magic hours of 9:00am and midnight everybody was pretty much treated the same within the walls.

If Disney does go to a prior-day ride reservation system for on-site guests, what's next, special seating in the Tiki Room? Larger Dole Whips? Separate bathrooms?

-R