Parents... WWYD???

I think there is another important point that those who feel like the physical response of the 7 year old was not only justified but to be encouraged are missing. In this case, the 7 year old pushed and the girl was basically injured badly enough to end the confrontation. However, the more likely outcome would be that the push only antagonizes the larger child and she retaliates in kind. Now the 7 year old is subject to a physical attack from a much larger child who will feel justified since the 7 year old pushed first. How vindicated would you feel at that point? Sure, the 14 year old would be punished, but how injured might your own child be? Is it worth the risk to give the bully what they "deserved?"

Instigating a physical response is more likely to just get you more of the same in kind and that's not a message I want to give to my kids. Walk away. It's safer for everyone involved.
 
And yet, somehow I do not see your theory of open warfare on bullies as a solution.

No. That is one way to deal with a bully, but it should be the last way you deal with a bully. All proper avenues should be tried first (informing a parent, the school, etc.).

I don't know you, so this is a bit awkward, but I do believe that you are lying. I highly doubt that several teachers joined up with the bully against you. I'm sorry, but after that bizarre accusation, I can't take anything you say seriously.

Schools are not telling students to "put up with it". They are telling students to report the behavior so that they may deal with it.

No, she did not deserve a broken nose. She deserved to be disciplined by the school(detention or suspension). I still think it sad that an adult would think a teen would deserve a broken nose for taunting another child. Her behavior was absolutely wrong, and the little boy did not mean for her nose to get broken. According to the OP, the little boy felt bad that her nose was broken. At least this 7 year old child has the maturity and compassion to understand that what she was doing was wrong, but not deserving of physical damage to her face. It's really sad that adults can't see what is obvious to a 7 year old child.

She didn't necessarily deserve the broken nose. But she did deserve to get pushed. But, you know, maybe she will think before she gets up in someone else's face. It may make her stop and think that there are consequences for her actions. I would have felt bad if it was one of my kids that pushed her and I may make an effort to make sure the child is ok and extend a hand of compassion. But that doesn't mean I don't think that her falling was a natural consequence for her actions.

Yes, it does in many situations. In a recent incident with my son, the bully was suspended for five days with the knowledge that if another incident happened upon his return, he would be transferred to an alternative school. He was also switched out of my son's class. I haven't had a problem since. Same thing with an incident a few years ago. I used the proper avenues, the school dealt with it and the problem was resolved. My point is that using the proper avenues should be utilized first. Physical violence should be a last resort if defending yourself from physical harm.

And you are under the assumption that those 5 days of suspension will make that bully NEVER bully again? Really? The only way that will work is IF the parents back up the school. If they just let it be like 5 days at home with no other consequences, it won't stop a blessed thing. Of course YOU haven't had a problem since, he isn't in class with YOUR child. That doesn't mean he didn't go on to bully someone else.

In the OP's case, no. I'm sure that child will not get a "wife beater" mentality form this incident. This is because he is blessed with responsible parents that are teaching him how to handle himself with maturity in situation like this. Now, some of the other posters on this thread who are telling their kids that it doesn't matter if it is a girl or boy, just swing away - that is sending a horrible message to their kids and very well could lead to them resorting to violence, whether against a boy or girl, in situations that do not require a physical response.

Both of my boys were taught to defend themselves if they needed to. When older ds was in the 4th grade, he came to us and said that there was a problem with some girls in his PE class. They were pretty much tormenting the boys because they thought they were "untouchable". He reported it, we reported it; nothing done. My last letter (along with several similar letters from other boys' parents) to the PE teacher simply said that he had been given permission to defend himself. He knew the difference between just "hitting a girl" and defending himself. Neither of my sons have gone on to be wife beaters. That is a different mentalitly anyway. Defending yourself is not being violent or overly agressive. A wife beater isn't just defending himself, he is not able to control his anger. Totally different thing.

Most parents can still figure out a better solution, than resorting to violence. If the teacher is not responsive, then you go higher up - an assistant principal, the school principal, the school board. Someone will listen. After all the school shootings, violence, etc., bullying is taken much more seriously than in the past. No school is going to open themselves up for a lawsuit for failing to act against a bully.
going higher up, will help in some instances but not in all. Besides, sometimes all your really accomplish is getting the bully away from your kid and on to someone else. That is really not a solution. I don't go around advocating violence and my children knew/know that they better not every start trouble with anyone. DD has never been in a fight in her life, and the only ones either of my sons were in the school considered them to be defending themselves. You cannot say "no school" becasue you do not know what the policies are in each school. In dd's school, an investigator is called in and he/she talks to all of the kids in that grade. The bully they had last year was bullying everyone and she was able to get several kids to tell her about it. But if it was only one or two and they were scared to tell, then what? Would the investigator do any good? Probably not.

I am not sure about other posters that don't have a problem with a bully being hit, pushed, etc. but my rule with my kids is that we do try other things first. If the bully doesnt' stop or if the bully lays a hand on them--they have permission to defend themselves.



I've worked with several bullies. My first degree was in teaching. Through college and a couple of years after, I worked as an assistant and counselor at a private school. You are wrong on your "attack more" theory. That may happen, but I doubt it is the norm. Your experience was unfortunate and unusual that after taking it up with the school principal, it still wasn't rectified. As I pointed out above in the incidents involving my son, the situation was rectified by the school becoming aware of the situation. In my experiences dealing with other bullies on the job, us being informed of the behavior did not increase the bullying, rather the behavior was halted.

You can't really compare bullies on the job with school bullies.

I have worked in public schools as an assistant also, I have worked closely with a principal and school board to deal with some bullies (not my son's, unfortunately) and have several family members and friends that are in education and have discussed bully problems with them and no I am not wrong. SOME bullies see that as another sign of weakness and will continually badger the victim about it. You may not want to consider that not all bullies fall in your ideal description but that is just the facts.



I think it is wrong to make a blanket statement like that. We had a similar incident several years ago with a bully and I had my son include him when he passed out his birthday invitations to the class. At the party, the "bully" was the most well mannered kid there. He wanted to help with everything. He was so excited to be at the party. He made a comment to me that nobody had ever invited him to a party before. It was really sad. My son did become friends with him, and he truly was a sweet child. It later came to light that the mother's boyfriend of this "bully" was physically abusing him, which is probably why he was lashing out at the world. I remember one of the last times I saw him, he had a black eye and big bruise on his arm. It was one of the worst days of my life - having to call cps. Yes, originally he was a bully, but he really was an extremely scared young boy, and once shown kindness he responded positively. So no - "all a bully knows is aggression" is false.

No, not false. False for some, but not all. SOME bullies only know agression. You said yourself the boy's mom's bf was abusing him. He responded to being included in your son's birthday party. That doesn't mean that he knew how to react to situations without using agression.



I'm not saying that anyone should put up with bullying behavior. I'm merely saying that there are better ways in dealing with a bully, than physical retaliation. And teaching this, will only better our children as they grow up.

My oldest two turned out quite nicely thanks, not agressive in behavior at all and I am fairly certain dd will be the same. Anyone dealing with a bully, should try other avenues, this I will agree. BUT, if it reaches a point that the bullying doesn't stop, a child should be able to defend him/herself and IF the bully lays a hand on the child or if the child feels physically threatened then he/she should be able to defend his/herself.

If the bully was literally "in his face", then the OP's son may have felt threatened and reacted with a push. The bully fell and hit her face.

The fall was an accident and I would not have punished my child (the OP is certainly free to do what she feels is best for her child).

I also agree that when dealing with a bully the schools should do whatever they need to do to help the bully and find out why he/she is acting this way. But not at the expense of another child's safety. They can do all of that AFTER my child makes said bully leave him/her alone. I don't "hate bullies" and I agree they are children just like mine. When ds hit that boy, dh and I called his parents to check on him and talked to them at length about the problems and how best to come to a solution--we are still friends with his parents. But, I am still not going to tell my kid to stand there and take whatever the bully dishes out because he may have problems at home!
 
I was wondering how she hit her face in the first place. OP, your DS pushed her, I got it. She was in his face. I visualize her falling backward, even tripping over another child. I could see her hitting her head. I just don't see how she hit her face.

Not saying the story isn't true. Not at all. Just having a hard time visualizing it.
 
I was wondering how she hit her face in the first place. OP, your DS pushed her, I got it. She was in his face. I visualize her falling backward, even tripping over another child. I could see her hitting her head. I just don't see how she hit her face.

Not saying the story isn't true. Not at all. Just having a hard time visualizing it.


Honestly, I don't know. As the school and my DS7 both told the same story, I never thought to "question" how she went from facing him to hitting her face.. I also don't know if she actually hit the ground or what she hit.. just that my ds pushed her and she tripped/stumbled on another student who was behind her and the end result was the injury to her nose. the multiple times that we had discussed the incident w/ DS ) never 1 time did his version alter and his version always matched the school version so I didn't go any further with it.
 

I think there is another important point that those who feel like the physical response of the 7 year old was not only justified but to be encouraged are missing. In this case, the 7 year old pushed and the girl was basically injured badly enough to end the confrontation. However, the more likely outcome would be that the push only antagonizes the larger child and she retaliates in kind. Now the 7 year old is subject to a physical attack from a much larger child who will feel justified since the 7 year old pushed first. How vindicated would you feel at that point? Sure, the 14 year old would be punished, but how injured might your own child be? Is it worth the risk to give the bully what they "deserved?"

Instigating a physical response is more likely to just get you more of the same in kind and that's not a message I want to give to my kids. Walk away. It's safer for everyone involved
.

I wish there was a "like" button here on the DIS like facebook has! I would totally click it for this post....I totally agree with this post particularly the bolded parts.
 
Honestly, I don't know. As the school and my DS7 both told the same story, I never thought to "question" how she went from facing him to hitting her face.. I also don't know if she actually hit the ground or what she hit.. just that my ds pushed her and she tripped/stumbled on another student who was behind her and the end result was the injury to her nose. the multiple times that we had discussed the incident w/ DS ) never 1 time did his version alter and his version always matched the school version so I didn't go any further with it.

It's possible that as she began to go backwards, she twisted to try to catch herself with her hand and wound up falling forwards (on her face rather than backwards on the back of her head).
 
She didn't necessarily deserve the broken nose. But she did deserve to get pushed. But, you know, maybe she will think before she gets up in someone else's face. It may make her stop and think that there are consequences for her actions. I would have felt bad if it was one of my kids that pushed her and I may make an effort to make sure the child is ok and extend a hand of compassion. But that doesn't mean I don't think that her falling was a natural consequence for her actions.

We just have a differing opinion on this. I don't feel verbal taunting warrants a physical response, whether a push, kick, hit; etc.

And you are under the assumption that those 5 days of suspension will make that bully NEVER bully again? Really? The only way that will work is IF the parents back up the school. If they just let it be like 5 days at home with no other consequences, it won't stop a blessed thing. Of course YOU haven't had a problem since, he isn't in class with YOUR child. That doesn't mean he didn't go on to bully someone else.

I'm not assuming anything. All I know is that in my son's case, the proper avenues were taken in dealing with this bully. It is no longer a problem for my son. I never said that it was a total solution to the problem for the world. I did say that because of this incident being documented, if the bully acts up again to anyone else, he will be removed from the school. In our county, we have an alternative school for drop out prevention students, students with behavioral issues, etc. I don't know the parents of this bully. Hopefully, they are working along with the school to deal with his issues. I hope he can be turned around. If the parents are not backing up the school, most likely, the bully will end up at the alternative school. But, my point is that the situation involving my son was handled without him needing to resort to a physical altercation. I guess by your reasoning, you think that if a child hits the bully back, then he will not bully anyone ever again. I don't think that will happen either. He may stop bullying the child who hit him, but he may just move on to another child. So, if the bully is likely to offend in either instance, I would rather have my child take the high road in dealing with the bullying behavior

Both of my boys were taught to defend themselves if they needed to. When older ds was in the 4th grade, he came to us and said that there was a problem with some girls in his PE class. They were pretty much tormenting the boys because they thought they were "untouchable". He reported it, we reported it; nothing done. My last letter (along with several similar letters from other boys' parents) to the PE teacher simply said that he had been given permission to defend himself. He knew the difference between just "hitting a girl" and defending himself. Neither of my sons have gone on to be wife beaters. That is a different mentalitly anyway. Defending yourself is not being violent or overly agressive. A wife beater isn't just defending himself, he is not able to control his anger. Totally different thing.

I have no problem with defending yourself. I stated in earlier posts that I would not expect a child to take a beating. Of course, there may be incidences where becoming physical is okay. If there are no adults around and the child is being hit, of course he or she should defend themselves.

going higher up, will help in some instances but not in all. Besides, sometimes all your really accomplish is getting the bully away from your kid and on to someone else. That is really not a solution.

There is no one solution that will 100% ensure that a bully never bothers another child.

I don't go around advocating violence and my children knew/know that they better not every start trouble with anyone. DD has never been in a fight in her life, and the only ones either of my sons were in the school considered them to be defending themselves. You cannot say "no school" becasue you do not know what the policies are in each school. In dd's school, an investigator is called in and he/she talks to all of the kids in that grade. The bully they had last year was bullying everyone and she was able to get several kids to tell her about it. But if it was only one or two and they were scared to tell, then what? Would the investigator do any good? Probably not.

In my experience with school investigators and school resource officers, they have always seemed like competent professionals that could see what was really happening.

I am not sure about other posters that don't have a problem with a bully being hit, pushed, etc. but my rule with my kids is that we do try other things first. If the bully doesnt' stop or if the bully lays a hand on them--they have permission to defend themselves.

My son is basically told this also. If there is no adult around and he needs to defend himself from physical harm, then he has every right to. However, name calling and taunting does not warrant that response in our house.

You can't really compare bullies on the job with school bullies.

I'm not sure I follow you here. My job was at a school, so it was school bullies I was dealing with on the job.

I have worked in public schools as an assistant also, I have worked closely with a principal and school board to deal with some bullies (not my son's, unfortunately) and have several family members and friends that are in education and have discussed bully problems with them and no I am not wrong. SOME bullies see that as another sign of weakness and will continually badger the victim about it. You may not want to consider that not all bullies fall in your ideal description but that is just the facts.

I know not all bullies fall into that ideal category. I never said that they all did. I was merely responding to your comment that they "most certainly attack more". I don't think it is "most certainly", however it is possible.

No, not false. False for some, but not all. SOME bullies only know agression. You said yourself the boy's mom's bf was abusing him. He responded to being included in your son's birthday party. That doesn't mean that he knew how to react to situations without using agression.

That's what I said. You made a blanket statement that "all bullies know is aggression". That is false. As you just clarified - "SOME bullies only know aggression". That is what I was pointing out to you. And in the example with my son, his behavior did improve in all areas - socially, academically, etc. after he befriended my son. I had several talks with the two of them when they would be over the house, whether doing homework or playing. I saw on his report cards that the "N"s were changing to "S"s. I don't think bullies should be given up on and just classified as "only knows aggression".


My oldest two turned out quite nicely thanks, not agressive in behavior at all and I am fairly certain dd will be the same. Anyone dealing with a bully, should try other avenues, this I will agree. BUT, if it reaches a point that the bullying doesn't stop, a child should be able to defend him/herself and IF the bully lays a hand on the child or if the child feels physically threatened then he/she should be able to defend his/herself.

I agree. If the bully gets physical and there are no other options, then defending yourself is proper.


I also agree that when dealing with a bully the schools should do whatever they need to do to help the bully and find out why he/she is acting this way. But not at the expense of another child's safety. They can do all of that AFTER my child makes said bully leave him/her alone. I don't "hate bullies" and I agree they are children just like mine. When ds hit that boy, dh and I called his parents to check on him and talked to them at length about the problems and how best to come to a solution--we are still friends with his parents. But, I am still not going to tell my kid to stand there and take whatever the bully dishes out because he may have problems at home!

Nobody said your children should have to put up with bullying behavior. It was only stated that proper avenues should be exhausted, and physical violence should be used as a last resort. And it's great that you were open to having a dialogue with the parents of that bully. Adults coming together on an issue like that is the best thing in rectifying the problem for the child being bullied, and helps the parents of the bully deal with their child.

Although we disagree on many issues pertaining to this, I think we can both agree on this earlier statement of mine...
Well, I probably won't be the most popular person on this thread
 
Some schools may not do as much as others or may not be as successful as others, but I am fairly certain that there are not schools that have just given up all together and do absolutely nothing - giving the bullies free reign. That statement is just a "cop out" excuse to give kids permission to respond with violence.

Yes, I did maybe think that. In fact, that is one of the reasons I stated as to how the school took care of the bullying. And no, I don't think this gives the bully an opportunity to move on to another child. Our school's code of conduct is quite clear, and if he is found to be bullying again, he will be removed from the school.

Bullying is a serious problem. Each situation is unique. Different schools have different ways of handling this issue. I don't think any schools totally ignore the issue.

My point, as it pertains to this thread is that many posters on here seem to want their kids to strike back as a first choice, rather than seeking an alternative method. I find this mindset to be wrong on many levels. It makes the school's job harder if parents are advising their children to hit others. And after having their little snowflakes hit others, they will be the first to stand up and complain about violence in schools.

I don't believe that any schools ignore the issue completely either. It's a growing problem in schools and I think everyone needs to be aware of this. The school districts and parents need to work together for solutions.

I feel there are certain situations where a child should fight back against a bully. Examples, when being hit and no one is around to help, in self defense of an attack. I don't think it's right to respond with hitting for name calling, picking etc. Most situations can and should be addressed without violence.

My point was as parents we need to be aware of the increasing amount of bullying happening in schools today. From the name calling, to physical altercations, text messages, and cyber bullying. Solutions to problems can be hard to find at times. As parents we need to work with the schools and law enforcement to help come up with a solution. I know all bullying isn't going to be stopped, but we all need to do what we can to prevent it.
 
I don't believe that any schools ignore the issue completely either. It's a growing problem in schools and I think everyone needs to be aware of this. The school districts and parents need to work together for solutions.

I feel there are certain situations where a child should fight back against a bully. Examples, when being hit and no one is around to help, in self defense of an attack. I don't think it's right to respond with hitting for name calling, picking etc. Most situations can and should be addressed without violence.

My point was as parents we need to be aware of the increasing amount of bullying happening in schools today. From the name calling, to physical altercations, text messages, and cyber bullying. Solutions to problems can be hard to find at times. As parents we need to work with the schools and law enforcement to help come up with a solution. I know all bullying isn't going to be stopped, but we all need to do what we can to prevent it.

I agree with everything you just said. On a side note, there is a 1st annual national bullying council that just began in Orlando today. It is the first national effort for schools to share ideas and find solutions to this issue. It's a 3 day event, I think. So, at least schools do seem to be taking this issue more seriously.
 
This! A friend of mine is an attorney and said that he would not be surprised if the other mother did not sue us!!! :eek: Hopefully it does not come to this, but I would hope if that was the case, the judge would take into consideration the entire story and not just that my child pushed her child and her child got hurt. My poor boy was very sad that he hurt her, even on accident. I actually THOUGHT I was taking it easy on him by taking the TV and DS from him for a week.. I mean, 1/2 the time he does not even WATCH tv or know where his DS is so I figured... we'd use this as the lesson something he might miss a little, but not like taking his bike or toys from him.. those he would REALLY miss :).. he also knows (from our MULTIPLE conversations about this) that what the girl was doing was NOT ok and but that we prefered he handle it differently and we have discussed other examples. I see what a PP means though about his size putting him at a disadvantage and feeling threatened. I don't want to be the parent visiting thier child in the hospital or worse, but I also don't want to be the parent getting served with court papers either! isn't there a middle ground somewhere!!!!!

:hug:Thanks everyone

I would hope the 14yo would be more embarrassed about bullying a 7yo. If I was the 14yo's mother and found out her injury was the result of bullying that she deserved what she got. Suing would not even be on my mind.

I personally wont have my children put up with bullying from another child physically or verbally. We have always told ours to defend themselves and no, I wouldn't punish one of mine if they were doing just that.
 


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