Parents - Day Care Problems (Long)

[Nette]

DD is 27 mo. She has been attending the same daycare for nearly 2 years now. It's a national chain center, and DH & I really like the director and all of her previous teachers. Sure, we've had our problems with the program (mostly food related) but we've been pretty happy with the school.

However, since she has been moved into the Preschool 1 room, she has been saying some odd (and disturbing) things. They start potty training at this level, and it is the first age where there is more than one classroom for the age group. It's also the first time she has been in a different class from her favorite kids.

DD is exceptionally bright. Her pediatrician remarks on this at every visit. Verbally she is WAY beyond her age group. (She talks like a 3 yo) We have also had this confirmed by my aunt who is a Diagnostician and holds a PhD in child development/psychology.

Now I know that kids can manipulate their mothers rather easily, and that DD is at an age where it is very difficult to be separated from Mommy & Daddy. But the question is, how deceptive can a 2 yo really be?

Ok, now the problems (in chronological order):

DD starts saying poopy is gross and trying to hide it when she goes (I know this is normal behavior for a child learning to use the toilet). She also starts singing a song (to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star). "Stinky Stinky diaper pants, no more poopy, no more mess". We have NEVER tried to put any negative association with natural (and necessary) bodily functions. So we were a bit disturbed by this song.

DD starts saying pooping is "scary". She won't tell us why, but she holds it for days and refuses to do it in the potty (she does urinate in the potty several times per day).

DD starts coming home with *spiders* drawn on her hand. I know it's nothing, but it is a little creepy.

DD starts saying "Miss ****" poked me. So I ask her "Where?" she says "In the chair" I say "What chair?" she says "*THE* chair".

Later she expands on this to "The blue chair" and then to "The blue chair in the bathroom"

I was actually trying to get her to tell me where on her body... but well she's 2. Later she elaborates to being poked in the bottom. We just assume that her teacher must have scratched her while cleaning her up.

DH picks DD up at school and asks "How was your day?" DD responds with "Good. Miss **** didn't poke me".

So we keep going about our business and she brings it up every now and then. "Miss **** pokes me. " "In the blue chair" "In the bottom".

Every morning DD crys and screams when I drop her off. She has cried before, but not like this. This is a new level. Now we are getting concerned. So we go to the director last week and tell her that we are disturbed by these conversations. She understands and agrees to talk to the teacher without saying who brought it up.

Yesterday morning:
DD is eating her oatmeal and says "I don't want to go to school". I say, "Ok, why?" She says "Miss **** pokes me all the time. I don't like that" and "Miss **** is mean to me". Now I'm a little more concerned. I decide that I will just ask the director to move DD to the other Preschool classroom.

We pull into the school parking lot and DD starts screaming bloody murder. She *really* doesn't want to go in. I tell her that we are just going to go talk to the director, and see if she can go into the other class with her friends. I drop her off in the new room (it was much later than I usually drop her off) and she smiles and skips over to the new teacher.

Yesterday afternoon/evening:
I pick DD up from school and she is glad to see me (as always). We go home and wait for DH to get there. Now, normally when we get home DD is cranky and fussy and pretty much wants to be held and watch a Disney DVD. Last night we got out Mr. (Sweet) Potato Head and played with him until DH got home. Then we all cooked dinner and ate.

This was not the same child. Her nap was a little short yesterday which is usually an indicator that she will be even more cranky. She played and played and then went in the tub and splashed and played some more. She was so happy. To me, that indicates that something was causing her stress before.

This morning:
DD says "I don't want to go to school" I say "why not?" She says "I don't like Miss ****". I say "Well, you are going to Miss *******'s class room this morning." She says "Ok".

We drive up to the school and DD starts fussing. "I don't want Miss ****". I say "We are going to the OTHER class today". She says "Ok".

We go inside and head for the old classroom (all the preschoolers go there if you drop off before 8 am - which is when the lead teachers arrive) DD says "No, I want to go to Miss *******'s classroom" I say, "Miss ******* will be here in a bit to pick you up." She cried when I left her, despite many many reassurances that she would not have to stay with her old teacher (who wasn't there yet).

What do you all think? What would you have done?

Thanks,
Jeannette

 

[JessetheCowgirl]

I would report it all to the director and insist that my child remain in the other class.

I worked in a daycare during my summers while a college student and have seen firsthand some of the "mean" teachers----not abusive, but just not kind, patient, or loving.

If your daughter doesn't feel loved by her teacher, then I say she's in the wrong class.

 

[Kimberle]

BTDT! Brittany had a teacher, in the potty training room. She loved her and the teacher did a wonderful job training all of the kids. This was also the early morning drop off room.

Brittany moved on to the next room. She went through a stage where she was whiny in the am. (Had always been happy when I left her.) This teacher yelled and spoke harshly to her. Brittany went from a happy child to an absolute mess at drop off. I thought she was "pulling me" to. Turns out she wasn't.

I spoke with the director and her new teacher. I had the situation watched very closely. The old teacher spoke harshly to her again once, this time in the presence of the director. She was spoken to.

I stopped doing the early am drop off. I waited until her new teacher was in the room before I dropped her off. Brittany did love her new room and new teacher. She had many friends and only 1 year left till kindergarten. If she had more time left in pre-school, I would have changed centers.

I old teacher did become more meek after her speaking to. She ignored Brittany from that point on. I know Brittany wasn't the only other child who had a problem with this teacher. I spoke with many other parents and their child was also afraid of this old teacher.

It was a hard situation to deal with. I know this old teacher has been teaching for many, many years. I even gave her a reference when she was finishing her college degree (before any problems.)Personally, I don't believe she should be teaching. I wasn't totally thrilled with how the center handled the situation. I sort of feel like they brushed it under the rug. But like I said, Brittany was happy and had only a year left.

You need to speak with the director and closely moniter this situation.

Good luck.

 

[bananiem]

How deceptive can a 2 year old be? I had one tell his Dad that kisses are yucky. When the Dad asked him why he said that "Ann gives me kisses." I'm Ann, and I promise you I NEVER kissed that kid. I rubbed backs at naptime and the kids could always get a hug or sit on my lap...but kisses? NO WAY! I didn't need a lawsuit! Luckily I had had the family's older daughter a few years before and everything was fine. I don't think the kids are being deceptive, it's just their take on the world.
Anyway...Since you were able to move your dd to the other room
and she seems happy there I think it's just a matter of time until she adjusts and understands that she's only in the other room until her teacher comes for her. Just keep telling her "Miss**** will be here before breakfast to take you to your room" or whatever. It's a new routine and it'll take a little time for her to "get it."
There are many times that, for whatever reason, the chemistry just isn't there between a kid and a teacher. Perhaps that's the case with your dd and the other teacher. Maybe the poking is really when she wipes her bottom. If she's had complaints about "skidmarks" in underwear she may do it a little more "thoroughly." There may also be more to the story but I'm glad your dd was able to change rooms and seems happy in the new one. That the center was able and willing to do that says alot about the center.

 

[stacilee]

DISCLAIMER:

**The following is MY opinion and MY opinion only. The OP has asked a very disturbing question regarding the safety of a child on a public forum and has asked for opinions and suggestions. Below is what I would do if I were faced with this situation.**

1st Rule of Motherhood:

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, follow your gut.

I would plan to be out of the office for the next couple of days, or until the situation is resolved. Starting now.

I would immediately call my pediatrician whom I have trust in since I have chosen this person (group practice) to be MY partner in caring for my child's health and well being to the best of their ability. I would be very frank in relaying the things my child is saying. I would record on paper, dates, comments (including things you may infer from something someone said) and notes of any/all conversations with all persons involved including but not limited to: the director of the center, any teachers, aids or assistants plus any other parents you may have spoken with about this matter who also have children at this center.

I would be open minded about thoughtfully consider their comments and suggestions.

I would ask that the physician override the scheduling secretary's book and make an appointment at their earliest possible convenience to see my daughter. I would be pleased if they could do it today.

(Since you say that she talks up a storm at their office, that tells me that she has a non-fearful relationship with them and she may easily communicate to them the same things she says to you at home. Her comments will be documented on her patient chart. )

I would find a new daycare situation regardless of any inconvenience it may cause and not send her back there.

Please understand that I posting what I would do for my child in this situation, because you asked. I am not trying to be bossy.

Some people just have wacky "methods" of toilet training.........
but then again, not all pedophiles are men.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Those were some strange things your DD said! It doesn't sound like something made up. Her reaction to that teacher was extreme IMO. Sounds like something very bad was happening.

If it were me, I'd probably take her to the doctor and let the doctor determine what kind of "poke" it was. Maybe between you and the doctor you can get to the bottom of what was going on. Honestly, reading your post was disturbing!

Holding off going to the potty is not healthy. Hopefully that was just a short reactionary phase.

I hope your DD is doing better now. Even if she is, I'd still want to know what was being done to her. And prevent it from being done to other children as well.

Just my .02. Good luck!

 

[OceanAnnie]

Stacilee, I just saw your post. You said it better than me.

 

[Nette]

Ok, I left something out... at her 24 month well check (actually at 25 months and after the "poking" had begun) The doctor did not mention anything when he checked her genitals and bottom.

My aunt (the diagnostician) also tried to speak with DD about it, and thought that maybe it was a wiping issue too.

I don't know what to think.

We are seeking a new center, because the current one is really no longer convienent to our life.

Don't think me a poor parent... I am very concerned and trying not to over react.
jb.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I'm just one to err on the side of caution.

(Not that there's anything one way or the other.) I may be wrong, but I think that the docs just do a cursory look at well baby visits.

 

[aimee11621]

Your little one is telling you the truth!. I really don't like the poking situation.

Listen to her, she is indeed very intelligent.

I think you know very well when she is manipulating . And this is not one of the times.

 

[capthooksmom]

HMMM... You didn't say which national chain (and I'm not asking you to) I'm just wondering if it's the same one I worked for as an Asst. Director. I went to work there after my ds had been there for some time. Before I went to work there I had concerns about some of his teachers. I spoke with my boss at the time and asked if I could take lunch breaks at odd times of the day. My dh and I would drop by unannounced at different times of the day and watch from the window of the classroom. We also talked to the director (who we love) almost every day about our concerns. My point...go see for yourself. You can tell by your daughter's interactions if there is a problem with the teacher(s). Your daughter seems especially articulate for her age, but her words like poked may not mean the same to her as they do to you. Having said that, though, if you truly feel like something is not right, it probably isn't. Take her out. It's not worth the risk. Good luck to you!!

 

[lightningcoach]

The best advice besides following your gut is to always drop in several times unexpected at all different hours to see what is going on.

My DD went to one daycare that had an indoor play area. One day before I rounded the corner I could hear the teacher screaming at the kids, but lo and behold when she saw me it was all smiles and nice soft talk to the kids. I spoke to the director about it but was brushed off. I found a new place for my child after that.

Some children do react to change differently, but if it effecting her physically (holding her poop) then definately change centers immediately.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I agree with Stacilee. My child would not be in that Center if I had doubts about one of their employees.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

I would definetly file a report with the director and the teacher.
What answer did you get after the director talked to the first teacher? Even if she is in a different class, she should not be in that class in the morning. It defeats the purpose of her switching classes if she has to see that teacher in the morning. The director should see that. I'd find out exactly what is going on in the first teacher's class. Demond to talk to someone over the director, district manager etc. But I would definetly find a new center.

I'm sure everything will be okay. I know, it is very upsetting.
My kids were always in at-home daycare until school started.
I remember when my older DD was potty training, she was about 30 months old. She was in the bathroom standing in front of the toilet I asked why she isn't sitting on it like girls do.She said "she wanted to go to the bathroom like boys do". The babysitter at that time had a teenage son. So I started freaking out! We finally found out whay after talking to her, the The potty training video we bought had a boy just standing in front of the toilet and the girl sitting .

Hang in there

 

[Nette]

Ok, we are going to the doctor right after lunch. DH is on his way NOW to pick her up.

Also, "mean teacher #1" is not in the class room for the early morning drop off... it's just "her" classroom that they use.

jb.

 

[karebear1]

Why do you continue to take the most precious person in your life somewhere that she OBVIOUSLY does not want to go? 2 year olds should know nothing about "poking" and discomfort like that. She SCREAMS when she thinks she is going to this particular teacher's room- and has consistantly verbalized her fear of this woman to you and your DH. I believe if you are going to err- err on the side of your child! She is making it as obvious as she possibly can that she is VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with her situation. I appreciate the fact that you have taken her out of this woman's care, but she was still being taken to a place that she may feel is unsafe to her- this is exhibited by the fact that she tells you over and over again that she does not want to go to Mrs. **** class- even after you told her she's not. You said in your last post that you are seeking a new center because this one is no longer convienent to your life. I hope that your priority is not for your convience - but that your daughter's welfare is your priority.

2 year olds are not manipulative. They react in honest, forthright ways. You are feeling concerned. Trust your feelings. Please don't push those feelings you have as a mom away. You have them for a reason. It's obvious to me that you love your DD. I don't think of you as a poor parent- just a new parent that is unsure of herself in that role. Have confidence in your ability to judge what your children are saying to you. PLEASE listen to your DD-

 

[zurgswife]

OK...having been a preschool assistant for a number of years...yes 2 year olds can be manipulative but it doesn't stretch much beyond separation-- you leave they cry but they have a good time shortly there after ..... while children may cry about you leaving I've never heard of one going into such detail about uncomfortable situations that there wasn't something more to it...

Go with your gut that your dd is trying to tell you something important and this is more then just a separation issue..

 

[Nette]

I'm sorry I put the fact that we are switching daycares so poorly.

What I meant is that we were going to switch anyway cuz getting her to this center is a pain. But of course this is MORE incentive to move her. And quickly.

Of Course she is #1. We both feel terrible about continuing taking her there. I know that you are right and she is not manipulating me, but she always seemed happy when I picked her up from that teacher. Often she was in the teacher's lap smiling and laughing.

I talked to one of the asst directors too and she said that she was really surprised and disappointed that we wanted to switch DD to the other class. She said she felt like that was one of the best environments for a two yo. FWIW, DD loves this particular asst director.

 

[jrydberg]

Just for the record, 2 year olds certainly are manipulative and certainly do not always react in forthright ways. They try to stretch boundaries to get away with what they can. That said, the child is uncomfortable. That's the bottom line. At 2 years old it may be difficult to find out if there is some reasonable explanation for this discomfort. IMO, it's very likely that there is a reasonable explanation. But no need to take a chance on it not having a reasonable explanation.

 

[castlegazer]

I would definately take steps to remove her from the situation. Everyone has already expressed what I would express. I know my son can tell me if there is something bothering him.

I have a similar, but less neffarious, situation occuring in my son's care. He is potty training. The teacher situation in his classroom has been very bad as of late - they have been leaving in droves. He has to constantly deal with getting to know new teachers. This is bad and was revolving around a new director search. But we thought it was finally under control with his last lead teacher who we thought very highly of and she was with him for the past three months - during the cucial points of potty training. This teacher just left two days ago - not due to anything internal but due to a personal issue.

It was sudden. Now my son is whinny at home and there, he does not want to wear underwear and he is having accidents again.

The point of my long winded story is that, while they are less than clear about emotions and actual events, they do reveal some amazing things about emotions, feelings, and events through their actions. You daughter's actions speak volumes to me and I would immediately be in dicussion with the State Child Services because you have been brushed off at your center by the Asst. Director.