Parenting advice needed??? Help!

[Southernmiss]

I like the consequences some of you have issued but how did you get your kids to do it? If I told my boys they had to run a mile for their misbehavior they would look at me and laugh. They are controlling me and the only bit of control I think I have is to get their attention physically (pulling his hair). My 12 year old is getting physical with me now. He will grab my arms if I try to escort him to his room. I am becoming afraid of him. He is a GREAT kid outside of the home. Maximum honor student, musician, athlete, never gotten a call from school about him etc. At home he is a miserable, disrespectful, hateful child. Makes me sad. I know for sure I am a HUGE part of the problem. I actually think I may suffer from PMDD so I am planning on going to my doctor for a diagnosis and maybe some medication. When I am in my irritable stage everything they do i pick a battle with. I am also going to seek counseling at this point. Please....our house by no means is an abusive home, we just need some redirecting. My boys are very fortunate, but unfortunately do not realize it. If some of you think pulling his hair is abuse how do you feel about spanking? Some kids get spanked with a belt or a wooden spoon. Those things leave marks! I agree physical punishment is not effective in most cases but when its your last resort I have had to use it. I don't want this to get any worse, I am reaching out for advice so I can make things better. Thank you for those who have not judged me and actually feel for me. I am wanting to have a better relationship with my kids and have been open and honest about it. No skeletons in my closet. I am just super overwhelmed and cannot deal.........

I started this reply earlier, but deleted it.

If it were me, I would look into some of the suggested resources from this thread (books, websites, etc.) read them and build some tools for myself.

I would then talk with DH about the new things I had learned. Together, DH and I would plan a family meeting at a time when things in the house were calm. At the meeting, we would state that we didn't like the way things in the house have been going and that we all would like to make some changes. I would then ask the kids what is good about the family and what should be changed. Within reason, I would agree on the plausible things that the kids see need to be changed and then state the things that DH and I would like to see changed. We would then say this is how we are going to do it. No yelling, screaming or hitting. If any of these family rules were broken then the consequence would be xx (based on knowing what you kid's currency is and what the infraction is)

Implement consequences calmly and logically and follow through calmly and logically. No spanking or physical contact. The less we had physical contact, the less the kids would have physical contact.

I found that our oldest DS needed to be involved in a physical activity outside the home. When he wasn't his behavior in the home was much worse. He has realized that when he's not involved in a physical activity, that going for a good run relieves his stress and helps him deal with whatever he needs to deal with. Maybe your son needs to learn some techniques that will diffuse him. Another family I know had a punching bag in their garage.

DS is also a kid that likes to be in charge. When he felt DH and I weren't in charge, he'd take over with ill behavior. Once we got the parents were in charge re established (kind of like the alpha dog idea), he did so much better and is now an amazing leader and young adult.

You do need to act fast and move quickly to get a grip on this, the longer it goes on the harder it will be to manage it.

 

[Nancyg56]

I like the consequences some of you have issued but how did you get your kids to do it? If I told my boys they had to run a mile for their misbehavior they would look at me and laugh. They are controlling me and the only bit of control I think I have is to get their attention physically (pulling his hair). My 12 year old is getting physical with me now. He will grab my arms if I try to escort him to his room. I am becoming afraid of him. He is a GREAT kid outside of the home. Maximum honor student, musician, athlete, never gotten a call from school about him etc. At home he is a miserable, disrespectful, hateful child. Makes me sad. I know for sure I am a HUGE part of the problem. I actually think I may suffer from PMDD so I am planning on going to my doctor for a diagnosis and maybe some medication. When I am in my irritable stage everything they do i pick a battle with. I am also going to seek counseling at this point. Please....our house by no means is an abusive home, we just need some redirecting. My boys are very fortunate, but unfortunately do not realize it. If some of you think pulling his hair is abuse how do you feel about spanking? Some kids get spanked with a belt or a wooden spoon. Those things leave marks! I agree physical punishment is not effective in most cases but when its your last resort I have had to use it. I don't want this to get any worse, I am reaching out for advice so I can make things better. Thank you for those who have not judged me and actually feel for me. I am wanting to have a better relationship with my kids and have been open and honest about it. No skeletons in my closet. I am just super overwhelmed and cannot deal.........

The first thing I would say is that you should never threaten a consequence you are not going to be able to enforce. Telling your boy to run a mile is worthless because you cannot make him run. Pulling his hair to get his attention is not working, he is striking back. Spanking a boy who already reacts physically is probably going to escalate the problems. I would not. Clearly, the boys are in charge so how do you change it?

First, I would go speak with a therapist. You need to address how you are channeling your anger so that you can take it out on them. I understand, but you know that you have to change this. Then ask about behavior modification practices. My kids lost privileges. Then they needed to earn them back. For instance, I did not make them do something as punishment, I removed something. You like that TV? Gone. My oldest had a nintendo. DH took the paddles. Left the box and games in his room so he could see them every day, but he had no way to use it. He was given a chart so he could earn his things back.

Everyone is going swimming> Not you. We will stay home together. DD takes my DGD phone away. She also told her that if she slammed a door she would lose the door. And she will take it down. DGD likes her privacy so that stops the sassiness.

I have to say that you better make some sort of plan if your kid lays hands on you again. My first reaction is to call the police, but with the history of physical behavior , I am not sure that is the best idea.

I would sit down as a family and start over. Make a list of behavior that will not be tolerated and tell them when the consequences would be.

If you leave the house, no electronics can come. If one of the boys brings his device, take it away. If you need to toss it, do that. DO this with everything that is a privilege.

Shopping behavior was important to me because I did not want to be embarrassed when we were out. If they asked for anything they would get nothing. If I had extra at the end of the shop, I would offer them something, but they knew that if they asked before I was done, there would be no treat at the end.

If they misbehaved when we were going somewhere they knew I would turn the car around and head home. I did not care how much I had invested in tickets, etc. we went home. I never had to do this because they had already been taught that if I said I would, it would happen.

You cannot change this overnight, but you can change it.

 

[LisaR]

I like the consequences some of you have issued but how did you get your kids to do it? If I told my boys they had to run a mile for their misbehavior they would look at me and laugh. They are controlling me and the only bit of control I think I have is to get their attention physically (pulling his hair). My 12 year old is getting physical with me now. He will grab my arms if I try to escort him to his room. I am becoming afraid of him. He is a GREAT kid outside of the home. Maximum honor student, musician, athlete, never gotten a call from school about him etc. At home he is a miserable, disrespectful, hateful child. Makes me sad. I know for sure I am a HUGE part of the problem. I actually think I may suffer from PMDD so I am planning on going to my doctor for a diagnosis and maybe some medication. When I am in my irritable stage everything they do i pick a battle with. I am also going to seek counseling at this point. Please....our house by no means is an abusive home, we just need some redirecting. My boys are very fortunate, but unfortunately do not realize it. If some of you think pulling his hair is abuse how do you feel about spanking? Some kids get spanked with a belt or a wooden spoon. Those things leave marks! I agree physical punishment is not effective in most cases but when its your last resort I have had to use it. I don't want this to get any worse, I am reaching out for advice so I can make things better. Thank you for those who have not judged me and actually feel for me. I am wanting to have a better relationship with my kids and have been open and honest about it. No skeletons in my closet. I am just super overwhelmed and cannot deal.........

Reading this, it sounds like things are truly out of control. This goes wayyyyyy beyond whiny kids who don't listen. Nobody should be afraid of their children and especially one who is only 12 and is a great person outside the home. This is clearly an issue with what is taking place inside the home.

I believe your family needs counseling TODAY. Not in a few weeks from now, or maybe a month or so. NOW! You have lost all control and you need help.

You also need to pick up a few of the books/authors who have been recommended on here and start reading NOW. This really does sound serious to me. I hope you find the help you need and quickly.

 

[Nancyg56]

I think the absolute first thing you should do, is tell your boys you're going to do something fun together tomorrow. Try to be completely positive the whole day. See how they respond.

I think you are correct. In my reply I focused on the negative behaviors, but I think that if you can get teh kids to respond to positive reinforcement, that is way better! I agree that is a great place to begin!

 

[It'sWDW4me]

I like the consequences some of you have issued but how did you get your kids to do it? If I told my boys they had to run a mile for their misbehavior they would look at me and laugh. They are controlling me and the only bit of control I think I have is to get their attention physically (pulling his hair). My 12 year old is getting physical with me now. He will grab my arms if I try to escort him to his room. I am becoming afraid of him. He is a GREAT kid outside of the home. Maximum honor student, musician, athlete, never gotten a call from school about him etc. At home he is a miserable, disrespectful, hateful child. Makes me sad. I know for sure I am a HUGE part of the problem. I actually think I may suffer from PMDD so I am planning on going to my doctor for a diagnosis and maybe some medication. When I am in my irritable stage everything they do i pick a battle with. I am also going to seek counseling at this point. Please....our house by no means is an abusive home, we just need some redirecting. My boys are very fortunate, but unfortunately do not realize it. If some of you think pulling his hair is abuse how do you feel about spanking? Some kids get spanked with a belt or a wooden spoon. Those things leave marks! I agree physical punishment is not effective in most cases but when its your last resort I have had to use it. I don't want this to get any worse, I am reaching out for advice so I can make things better. Thank you for those who have not judged me and actually feel for me. I am wanting to have a better relationship with my kids and have been open and honest about it. No skeletons in my closet. I am just super overwhelmed and cannot deal.........

My DS knows how to push my buttons. I was going out of my mind, too, when he was 12 or so. When I finally got to and past MY breaking point, things turned around and are MUCH better now. I'm going to agree with everyone - turn your emotions off when they start in on you. This takes practice but it can be done.

So DS was supposed to leave the iPod in the car but he snuck it in? OK, well since you were sneaky and disrespectful, you've now lost your iPod completely for a week. You'll get it back next Thursday at 5:00 pm.

He starts begging... and begging... and begging...and...

Son, I am getting annoyed with your begging. You will not get the iPod back until next Thursday. Ask me one. more. time. and I'll add another week.

and begging

OK. You now get your iPod back TWO weeks from now at 5 pm. Would you like to try for ANOTHER week?


All of the above said calmly and as a matter-of-fact. And then STICK TO IT!! DH must be on board and back you up or this will never work. DS will NOT die if he doesn't have his iPod for a week... or even two... but he WILL remember how "horrible" that week was. He MAY push you once or twice more where you have to follow through but eventually he will learn to not annoyingly beg.


DS is talking trash to his brother... Son, I don't want to hear you talking like that to your brother. Go to your room until you can behave respectfully.

Ds won't go to his room. Do NOT try to "escort" him - he's getting older and stronger and you could wind up getting hurt. Give him an ultimatum. Son, if you don't go to your room NOW you will lose x (this could be an item or an activity) for y time. He still won't go.... Son, I'm not repeating myself.

Again, follow through. Every time.


Staying calm can be really tough sometimes but what helped me get centered the most was thinking how he'd be acting in a few years if I didn't nip the behavior now. Like the PP said about the concert tickets (seriously, WOW on DD's behavior and good for you for teaching her such a costly lesson!), you sometimes wind up punishing yourself too (being out the $$ for said concert tickets or you're stuck at home too since the kid is grounded ) but if you do it right it won't be too long until they learn.

Best of luck to you and your family OP!!

 

[It'sWDW4me]

I just remembered a story a co-worker recently told me... Her DD was doing her homework but "forgetting" to turn it in on time. She'd turn it in a day late. DD was asked to go to the Homecoming dance and really REALLY wanted to go. Mom said "sure you can go to the dance.... a day late!" DD was allowed to go to Friday's dance on Saturday (so didn't get to go ) and suddenly her homework was getting turned in on time.


Just another example - find your kids' "currency".

 

[Julylady]

HI OP:
I know that raising kids isn't easy and I am truly not bashing you! What concerns me in your posts is that you write that your kids behavior drive you and your husband to react in negative ways. This is alarming to me. You and your husband are CHOOSING to react in certain ways. It is not the kids fault. Your words remind me of a abusive husband who told his wife it was her fault he hit her because she shouldn't have done X, Y or Z.

You and your kids have established very negative ways of dealing with issues. I would strongly suggest counseling as you need to make a break from the old ways and try something radically different.

In the meantime, you have received some very good advice on this thread. Explain to your boys in clear, soft tones what will happen if they cross the line and then take that action. Again....never threaten something you wouldn't follow through with.

I can still hear myself from the past. "No, you cannot have my cell phone to play games because I don't want you draining the battery. Don't ask for it again until we get home. If you do ask again, you will not be able to play with it until tomorrow. Do you have a book in your bag? Take it out and read it now." And then when you get home, don't forget to offer the cell phone to show that you also follow through with your words. I always tried to redirect them in some way as well, else they just obsess over it. In your situation, I would probably have suggested something that he could do at the concert in case he was bored. We ALWAYS let kids take books along and read them anywhere.

Good luck, OP. Its obvious you love your boys and want things to change for the better!

 

[LisaR]

I just remembered a story a co-worker recently told me... Her DD was doing her homework but "forgetting" to turn it in on time. She'd turn it in a day late. DD was asked to go to the Homecoming dance and really REALLY wanted to go. Mom said "sure you can go to the dance.... a day late!" DD was allowed to go to Friday's dance on Saturday (so didn't get to go ) and suddenly her homework was getting turned in on time.


Just another example - find your kids' "currency".

Love it!

Unfortunately, I think in the case of the OP'er, the son would just shove his mom aside, walk out the door, and head right to the dance. It sounds like the kids have control and the OP'er needs to figure out a way to get it back quickly.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yep, LOVE that homecoming story!!!!

OP, after reading your last update, I too am going to go ahead and recommend counseling. With the note that all counselers are NOT equal. You need to find one that is, right from the get go, interested in giving you positive tools and feedback.

You asked, with an example, so I will answer.
NO, you do not make a kid run mile.
Just the same as you don't physically try to control them.. (grabbing arm, ear, hair) THAT IS NOT THE ANSWER.

You might still be looking in the wrong direction here. On the wrong track...

You simply can not, and will not, ever, gain control by physical actions, after the fact.
The result will be what you are currently experiencing. Confusion, aggression, physical outburst, and a very toxic and negative situation.

As many have tried to explain, the focus needs to be on respect, and PROACTIVELY, BEFOREHAND, possessing and maintaining control. Such as, Ipad is an issue... Ipad disappears, and is confiscated for a lengthy period of time. Brother is hateful and disrespectful to younger brother... Separate the two.... Older brother is in the dog-house, so to speak, and gets to go nowhere, while younger brother gets to go do something enjoyable to escape from the toxic negativity. THESE ARE THE TYPES OF CONTROL YOU DO HAVE.

If you are not seeing any of the frustration and confusion lifting, by discussing all of this here. If all of this is just not something that you understand or feel you can do. Then, like some others have said. Don't be afraid to seek some more direct input/counseling. Parenting, and family life in general, is not always easy!!! Don't shy away from getting any support you can!

 

[lukenick1]

Great advice everyone!!

Made an appt with my Doctor and am in the process of finding family therapy. I know I am the reason my boys act the way they do and really want to make things different. This is not an excuse but I lost my parents 2 weeks apart 3 years ago and it has really affected me emotionally. Can't really take my hurt out on my babies. I need to get a grip on it.
Thanks for understanding

 

[Wishing on a star]

We do see that you are doing what you can, and trying to be a good parent!

We do hope that this will help, and things improve soon!

 

[lukenick1]

Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!

 

[parrothead365]

Look for something like this in your area. They work with the whole family and the process works.

http://www.theparenthelpcenter.com/camp-consequence.cfm

 

[smitch425]

Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!

First kid to do all of their chores and an inspection as to who did it better gets $10. Then give them both $10 if they come through. Let them know you appreciate them. That may be worth more than the money.

 

[Southernmiss]

Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!

Stay in their rooms until it's done calmly and quietly. No xbox or whatever until chores are done.

 

[Allison]

I think you already see that parental behavior needs to change also to get this under control. When I read the first post, my first thought was the kids are behaving the way their parents behave to them. Your oldest is physical with his brother and you and your husband are physical with your son with twisting ears and pulling hair. Your oldest is nasty to your other son while dad is screaming at him to the point that he is in tears. Your son is modeling the behavior of his parents.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!

Just matter of fact - "Guys your rooms are a mess. No TV (or whatever their after school preference) until you get your laundry away and rooms picked up, please." I ALWAYS use please - I want to hear it so I make sure I say it. TV does not get turned on until you approve their rooms. If they turn it on, you calmly turn it off and remind them no tv (or whatever) until their rooms pass your inspection. Rinse and repeat. Stay calm. You can do it mama!!

 

[Julylady]

What worked for me is to give them some control over the situation. I would suggest telling them that you want them to address their rooms this weekend. At minimum you expect the following: 1) dirty clothes brought to laundry room, 2) clean clothes put away, 3) all dishes brought to the kitchen, 4) trash picked up and trash cans emptied, 5) make your bed. The idea is to be really specific. If you just say "clean your room" they might truly not know what your expectations are.

At this point, I might offer a reward. Who ever has their room cleaned by 6pm on Sunday gets to go out for pizza with Dad and I, or give them a $10 itunes card, or whatever will interest them. And then, I would praise them for doing a great job (if they did!). Not too much criticism though....just baby steps. (NOTE: My expectations as to what was a clean room and theirs were very different. I never forced them to clean to my standards, unless I was in there working with them.)

What didn't work for me was to tie one kid's reward to another. For example, if you both do it we will all go out for pizza. Also, to expect them to do chores when I wanted them to. For example, I would not tell them they had to immediately start cleaning their room when they get home from school. They probably have already made other plans (if only in their heads) and will resent you for forcing them to do something different. I always gave them 24-48 hours to do something.

I hope you have a great holiday with your family, OP!

 

[StephMK]

I just remembered a story a co-worker recently told me... Her DD was doing her homework but "forgetting" to turn it in on time. She'd turn it in a day late. DD was asked to go to the Homecoming dance and really REALLY wanted to go. Mom said "sure you can go to the dance.... a day late!" DD was allowed to go to Friday's dance on Saturday (so didn't get to go ) and suddenly her homework was getting turned in on time.


Just another example - find your kids' "currency".

EXACTLY! DD#2 taught me that and darn was it tough to find her currency! She is basically a good kid but this year, she has slipped in some academic areas. She failed French one quarter and actually cheated on an assignment. She had been really looking forward to her 13th bday. Because of that incident and grade, we cancelled plans for the party.

We then gave her an incentive to do better. We told her she needed to show us that she was ready for the responsibility of getting older and being a "teen". We did tell her if she could pull up her grade next quarter, THEN we'd plan one. She almost didn't pull it off but managed to get a C next quarter. So it was a very scaled down celebration, basically a few friends spending the night & we told them no gifts.

Posted just to say we found we have to be willing to enforce whatever consequence we give.

Great advice everyone!!

Made an appt with my Doctor and am in the process of finding family therapy. I know I am the reason my boys act the way they do and really want to make things different. This is not an excuse but I lost my parents 2 weeks apart 3 years ago and it has really affected me emotionally. Can't really take my hurt out on my babies. I need to get a grip on it.
Thanks for understanding

I'm sorry OP. You are right to seek help and brave to come here & ask for help. Parenting is not easy EVER.

Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!

I would have a talk with your DH, get on the same page, and pledge to support each other. Then I would have a honest family meeting. Explain you are not happy with the current situation and have decided that you all need to change how you interact. Here are the new expectations. I have a feeling the behaviors might get worse before they get better. They will try to test you harder to find those breaking points. Walk away when you have to.

First kid to do all of their chores and an inspection as to who did it better gets $10. Then give them both $10 if they come through. Let them know you appreciate them. That may be worth more than the money.

I like this. Make it positive and give lots of praise for any positive behaviors. Catch them being good and acknowledge them.

Just matter of fact - "Guys your rooms are a mess. No TV (or whatever their after school preference) until you get your laundry away and rooms picked up, please." I ALWAYS use please - I want to hear it so I make sure I say it. TV does not get turned on until you approve their rooms. If they turn it on, you calmly turn it off and remind them no tv (or whatever) until their rooms pass your inspection. Rinse and repeat. Stay calm. You can do it mama!!

Yep, you can do it and you are smart to get things under control before they get older & less likely to listen!!

 

[palmbeachmom]

Hi OP, I'm going to come from a different perspective. It just sounds to me like you and your husband have let the situation get out of control because you haven't nipped the mouthiness and disrespect in the bud, and now your boys know they can push, push, push you. I'll be honest, I don't think anything is weird that your husband grabbed his ear. I could totally see my husband doing that and pulling my son out of the situation. But I'm old school. We spanked. I am a big believer in a good swat on the butt is what the majority of kids need today. And before I get flamed, no, I'm not talking dragging out a belt and beating the snot out of your kids, just a pop on the hiney to get their attention.

Kid's need boundaries, and when they don't get them they are going to act out. And I think any parent who says they've never lost their mind and screamed at their kid is probably not being very honest, but if they are, then they have been blessed with mild-mannered, docile little darlings and should thank their lucky stars

We went through times with my son when he was in the late elementary/middle school years when I wanted to pull my hair out in frustration, but you know what? It passes. My kid is now a normal high schooler, who holds the door open for strangers and says "yes sir/no sir", but of course he still smarts off occasionally. That's a normal teenager!

Anyway, my advice is to pull yourself up, prepare for fireworks when you say no and MEAN IT, and be prepared to dole out some punishments. Taking away privileges at that age is always a winner, even if it seems like it is punishing you and your husband as much as your sons. Good luck, and I promise, they will change as they grow up