Palin: No abortions, No exceptions???

I'm saying the women that recklessly get pregnant knowing they can't afford to take care of a child. Unfortunately, I have seen women get pregnant just to get on welfare. A woman in my old church is now pregnant again and she said flat out that she was losing her benefits because her two oldest kids are over 18 now.

I realize stuff happens and I'm all for a safety net, but term limits would be nice too. I do agree that it comes down to providing child care for these women.

I think you are greatly minimizing the "stuff happens" portion of your argument. Rape, incest (and pregnancy as a result), and conceiving a terminally ill child are big issues in this country. There was a 10 year old child in a neighboring town when I was growing up who got pregnant as a result of RAPE via incest. Should she have had that child?

But it sounds like you are saying that there should be exceptions. I would be fine with limitations, as long as these limitation were reasonable. But there are just too many "stuff happens" scenarios for the solution to be just black & white.

Also, while I greatly respect those who say "God should decide....", the fact of the matter is, not all people in this country believe in God. Whether Palin/McCain do or not, you cannot push religious beliefs onto an entire country-separation of church & state.

The other issue that I would fear is underground abortions because people are desperate & many will do anything to terminate a pregnancy if this right is taken away from them. Can you imagine how many doctors & mail-order illegitimate doctors will perform unsafe and dangerous abortions? How many women will re-introduce the wire hanger method & try to do it themselves?

Preparation needs to be made for every single dangerous scenario that could occur.
 
I agree with this too. I am completely supportive of the idea of the welfare system, but not the way it stands as of now. If they were stricter and set up stricter contingencies & more training programs, I would feel much better about where my tax dollars are going.

Massachusetts, by the way, also has a great free health care system for those who qualify, including children & a separate program for children with special needs. I also love the fact that it is now mandatory in Mass. to get health insurance & they have set up programs to allow it to be affordable for families that qualify.:thumbsup2

That's great! Iowa as of now has the government funded healthcare for low income that is free for children and pregnant mothers. And it also has Hawk-I that is low cost coverage for children that do not qualify as low income. It is a great program! The most any parent pays is $20.
 
Hi there,

Thank you very much for your mature & informative response. I was not aware that Palin did have some exemptions & I thank you for educating me on that.:thumbsup2 Thank you also for your explanation of a rationale for her anti-abortion beliefs and sharing your point of view. I highly respect your faith in God, your values, & where you are coming from.



Wow, I thought I asked for an informative & mature response....not a defensive and ignorant argument :rolleyes1

Actually, I'm currently undecided which is why I am trying to gather information. I'm not sure where you got that I think she has no right to believe what she chooses to believe, but it sounds like you have a problem with respecting other people's belief systems. You wanna know why it's not me with the problem? Because I am the one here seeking knowledge for the purpose of understand other points of views, instead of yelling one-sided remarks & acting like a.....hmm:idea:

I chose to ask on here because.....well, because I'm a member of the dis & I frequent these boards to find info on a variety of topics:wizard: I also have faith in other human beings & respect for their knowledge & insight. Statistics & bulleted facts on a website are sometimes not enough to understand a certain belief or embrace a point of view. Could you imagine if the bible was all in bullets, rather than in passionate words? Sometimes asking a common person, or a group of common people will offer you different insights than sterile websites or single sided news channels. Although, in your case, the only insight that you have offered me is that you are a real :mad:

Thanks anyways & I look forward to reading these other replies to see if there are any other valuable points (such that the first poster who replied), seeing as yours was a complete waste of space.:wave2:

Actually,, perla, my response was neither defensive nor ignorant. Nor am I mad. Essentially, posts on a webiste are just that...posts on a website. I think the problem is you got "snagged" in your little charade of "I need to know about this candidate". All the candidates' views, platforms & policies are pretty well available everywhere.

Had you taken the time to actually look carefully at the one website I suggested, you would have realized that the bulleted facts were backed up by details behind them, if you clicked on each bullet. There was also a lot of other information on the site, fairly unbiased. I believe I also recommended that you do other research for the facts and vote accordingly. That is what I am doing...researching many sites, both those that favor the republican party and those that favor the democratic party.

I have no need to defend Governor Palin...she can defend herself and that is probably not the way I will be voting come November, so if you felt I was defending her, you clearly don't understand my politics, nor, preusmably, do you care to.

I maintain that while there is a diverse population here on the DIS, if you have spent any time at all reading most of the political posts, the DIS is equally as divided and polarized for each candidate as the rest of the country. I maintain that factual sources will give you better information than peoples' opinions. But, if you chooose to base your political decisions on the opinons of people from a website, then you are probably calling the wrong person ignorant.

Enjoy your "research". Since I am clearly not among those who are telling you what you want to hear, I'll leave your thread to those who will do that for you.
 
Actually,, perla, my response was neither defensive nor ignorant. Nor am I mad. Essentially, posts on a webiste are just that...posts on a website. I think the problem is you got "snagged" in your little charade of "I need to know about this candidate". All the candidates' views, platforms & policies are pretty well available everywhere.

Had you taken the time to actually look carefully at the one website I suggested, you would have realized that the bulleted facts were backed up by details behind them, if you clicked on each bullet. There was also a lot of other information on the site, fairly unbiased. I believe I also recommended that you do other research for the facts and vote accordingly. That is what I am doing...researching many sites, both those that favor the republican party and those that favor the democratic party.

I have no need to defend Governor Palin...she can defend herself and that is probably not the way I will be voting come November, so if you felt I was defending her, you clearly don't understand my politics, nor, preusmably, do you care to.

I maintain that while there is a diverse population here on the DIS, if you have spent any time at all reading most of the political posts, the DIS is equally as divided and polarized for each candidate as the rest of the country. I maintain that factual sources will give you better information than peoples' opinions. But, if you chooose to base your political decisions on the opinons of people from a website, then you are probably calling the wrong person ignorant.

Enjoy your "research". Since I am clearly not among those who are telling you what you want to hear, I'll leave your thread to those who will do that for you.

and I suggest you re-read your original reply & think twice about how you respond to people. I respect your political beliefs, what I do not respect is your defensive & rude attitude of addressing a simple & important question.

I have actually looked at the website you suggested, by the way (the only relevant part of your original reply). It does not answer the questions I was looking for. It lists her views & what she opposes, a little on her plan of action (adoption), but she does not expand on how she will achieve these plans (i.e. funding to accomodate all of these births & adoptions, funding and ideas for preventative programs, how she plans to recruit all of these adoptive parents, etc...), is she planning to force these women into carrying a child to full term & force them into adoption, & the many cases where mere adoption does not solve the problem of ensuring a child with a quality life (i.e. paying for terminally ill newborns).

To assume that the issue of abortion & the many delicate & complex reasons behind it can be solved with one simple word=adoption, is naive & ridiculous. It is a complicated issue & it is NOT black & white. I was not only seeking a clarification to the "no exceptions" comment I heard on the news, but also seeking Palin's "why" & "how" which was not answered completely on this website or anywhere else I have searched.

To be honest, I do not hold a strong position on where I stand with abortion-there are too many gray areas. If she is anti-abortion, I am very open to hearing about it, but I want to know how she plans to accomodate those situations, finance them, & prevent them from occurring, etc...). That is a very relevant & important question.

I am not asking anyone to defend anything. If you read my opening post, I did not say I disagreed with her stance on anything, except the "no exceptions" stance which I was seeking clarification on if this was an accurate statement. That is where you overly misinterpreted my question & motive for asking. I was asking for clarification about something I wasn't sure was accurate (which I received from several polite posters) & asking for INFORMATION.

Can you direct me to a website where Palin discusses the details of her plan of action? You said they are all over the internet, but I have not found one yet. All you offered me was a reminder that there are ignorant people in this world who are sadly so caught up in their views instead of being confident in them, that they fail to educate people on them.

Again, I am not accusing Palin of anything. I'm assuming she has a proposition & game plan instead of just "adoption." I would like to learn about her game plan, which is why I asked in the first place.

And I am certainly not basing my voting decision on a mere opinion-that's ridiculous & I am a level headed individual. I am gathering information from a variety of sources because that is what intelligent & responsible people do-they seek knowledge and insight.

Yes, I have already received very helpful responses from other posters. Posters who have beliefs I agree with & people who have beliefs that I disagree with-both sides have been equally helpful in educating me & helping me see other points of view, except for posters like you who sadly only offer a defensive attitude rather than knowledge.:guilty:
 

:thumbsup2 :cool1: :worship:

ITA. Good post.


Dawn

Actually,, perla, my response was neither defensive nor ignorant. Nor am I mad. Essentially, posts on a webiste are just that...posts on a website. I think the problem is you got "snagged" in your little charade of "I need to know about this candidate". All the candidates' views, platforms & policies are pretty well available everywhere.

Had you taken the time to actually look carefully at the one website I suggested, you would have realized that the bulleted facts were backed up by details behind them, if you clicked on each bullet. There was also a lot of other information on the site, fairly unbiased. I believe I also recommended that you do other research for the facts and vote accordingly. That is what I am doing...researching many sites, both those that favor the republican party and those that favor the democratic party.

I have no need to defend Governor Palin...she can defend herself and that is probably not the way I will be voting come November, so if you felt I was defending her, you clearly don't understand my politics, nor, preusmably, do you care to.

I maintain that while there is a diverse population here on the DIS, if you have spent any time at all reading most of the political posts, the DIS is equally as divided and polarized for each candidate as the rest of the country. I maintain that factual sources will give you better information than peoples' opinions. But, if you chooose to base your political decisions on the opinons of people from a website, then you are probably calling the wrong person ignorant.

Enjoy your "research". Since I am clearly not among those who are telling you what you want to hear, I'll leave your thread to those who will do that for you.
 
The best thing is to help women prevent pregnancies or advertise the morning after pill better, it can be used up to 72 hours after sex. As to a woman who is pregnant

1 Its her body no one should be forced to either terminate a pregnany or to carry on with it I know its sounds hard but not every child is wanted and no amount of dreaming will make them so.
2 Many disabled children are aborted who is willing to pay the extra for these children to be fostered? Because not many will be adopted
3 adoption of an unwanted child makes people warm and fuzzy but no woman is a breeding cow for the infurtile. Life is not always fair, it is cruel and painfull that some women find that they can not conceive but unfortunatly that is life and to turn round to another woman and say well I want to use your womb is wrong.
4 Are you who don't want abortion going to stay with the woman 24/7 to prevent her going somewhere else where she can have an abortion?
 
This is such a touchy, and quite confusing subject at times.

I believe abortion is wrong and I would never have one.

If I were raped, I'm not sure how I would handle it but I seriously think I would not get an abortion. Either I would carry the baby to full term, deliver, and find a loving family for the baby. As much as I would be hurting, hating the SOB who hurt me, I would want that baby to have a chance. Who am I to decided if they live or die? I'm not God.

If a woman becomes pregnant and does not have the money necessary to care for a child, there are safe haven laws. They can carry the child to full term and go to a local fire station or if they really care for this child, find it a loving home.

With the issue where giving birth might kill me, that is where my faith comes into play (not that it doesn't affect my choices if other circumstances arose) because God's timing is always perfect. If it is His will for me to go then that's how it is. Yes, the child would be motherless but they would have a father who would love them twice as much (married).

People always ask "How can God let such terrible things happen"

God gave us all free will.

God does not want these bad things to happen but he let's things run their course. He always has a plan for everyone's life, some specific reason things happen to you, me, everyone the way they do.

Sorry if I seem to preachy but my faith is extremely important to me and it affects all my decisions.
 
This is such a touchy, and quite confusing subject at times.

I believe abortion is wrong and I would never have one.

If I were raped, I'm not sure how I would handle it but I seriously think I would not get an abortion. Either I would carry the baby to full term, deliver, and find a loving family for the baby. As much as I would be hurting, hating the SOB who hurt me, I would want that baby to have a chance. Who am I to decided if they live or die? I'm not God.

If a woman becomes pregnant and does not have the money necessary to care for a child, there are safe haven laws. They can carry the child to full term and go to a local fire station or if they really care for this child, find it a loving home.

With the issue where giving birth might kill me, that is where my faith comes into play (not that it doesn't affect my choices if other circumstances arose) because God's timing is always perfect. If it is His will for me to go then that's how it is. Yes, the child would be motherless but they would have a father who would love them twice as much (married).

People always ask "How can God let such terrible things happen"

God gave us all free will.

God does not want these bad things to happen but he let's things run their course. He always has a plan for everyone's life, some specific reason things happen to you, me, everyone the way they do.

Sorry if I seem to preachy but my faith is extremely important to me and it affects all my decisions.

No, you do not sound preachy at all and I respect your beliefs and your faith :)
Yes, it is a very touchy subject & a very complex subject, which is why I believe that there is no black & white answer and ALOT to be considered.

I think the Safe Haven law is wonderful, but the reality is: after you drop the kid off-where are they going to go? Can you garuntee a loving home & prevent a life of living as a ward of the state? I used to have a dear friend who was born to drug addict parents. They both passed away and she ended up in the system until she was 18 years old. Never adopted & life from foster home to foster home was a life of abuse & neglect. She committed suicide shortly after turning 18. Now, this is just one example & there are MANY examples of positive stories, but my point is: adoption as an only answer is not as simple as it sounds, It's costly, quality is not great, and would there be enough adoptive parents to want all of these children?

If adoption is her answer, I'm interested in hearing about her game plan for carrying this out.

Also, IF they did come into office & IF Roe V Wade did get overturned, how will they monitor and prevent back alley abortions?

As for the scenario of the fatally ill newborn, I highly respect your faith and belief in God, but on the other hand, reality sets in to me that not everyone in this country believes in God, or maybe has a different view on God. I feel very fortunate right now to live in a country that respects these varied beliefs and separates church and state.

But also in this fatally ill newborn scenario, my question to you (or Palin or anyone supporting your view) might respectfully be: who will pay for this fatally ill child's services? Even if it comes that the baby only lives a week, that's a week of services that MUST be given to this child. Does Palin have a plan of action for this?

I thank you again for sharing your views & insight with me.:goodvibes
 
The best thing is to help women prevent pregnancies or advertise the morning after pill better, it can be used up to 72 hours after sex. As to a woman who is pregnant

1 Its her body no one should be forced to either terminate a pregnany or to carry on with it I know its sounds hard but not every child is wanted and no amount of dreaming will make them so.
2 Many disabled children are aborted who is willing to pay the extra for these children to be fostered? Because not many will be adopted
3 adoption of an unwanted child makes people warm and fuzzy but no woman is a breeding cow for the infurtile. Life is not always fair, it is cruel and painfull that some women find that they can not conceive but unfortunatly that is life and to turn round to another woman and say well I want to use your womb is wrong.
4 Are you who don't want abortion going to stay with the woman 24/7 to prevent her going somewhere else where she can have an abortion?

Wow, one of the first pro-choice comments on here. Again, like the PP I replied to, I respect your belief & your view.

As mentioned before, I do not hold a strong position on either side of this issue (which is why I was seeking more input!), but I lean toward pro-choice with limitations. I also agree that my country should not be in control of my body.

The thought of back alley abortions if R v W gets overturned is both scary & far too realistic. Has Palin thought about preventative measures?

I am a special education teacher. I have worked with all ranges of severely medical, cognitive, physical, behavioral children through young adult. & I have worked with ALOT of wards of the state & children living (barely) in a hospital under oppressive conditions with zero quality of life, worked with some who passed away after living a life of utter pain & minimal functioning. Sadly, even the ones who were blessed with foster care were experienced neglect, abuse, etc... AND some were adopted &/or lived with their biological families and had great lives! I'm not sure how other states work, but Massachusetts offers financial incentive to foster these children. The state funds money for care, education, staff, medicine, supplies, etc...BUT the screening process of these foster families is not great. Parent training & support programs are not great. My point is, there is a lot more to just "adoption" as a cold answer.

Thank you again for sharing your insight with me.
 
The best thing is to help women prevent pregnancies or advertise the morning after pill better, it can be used up to 72 hours after sex. As to a woman who is pregnant

1 Its her body no one should be forced to either terminate a pregnany or to carry on with it I know its sounds hard but not every child is wanted and no amount of dreaming will make them so.
2 Many disabled children are aborted who is willing to pay the extra for these children to be fostered? Because not many will be adopted
3 adoption of an unwanted child makes people warm and fuzzy but no woman is a breeding cow for the infurtile. Life is not always fair, it is cruel and painfull that some women find that they can not conceive but unfortunatly that is life and to turn round to another woman and say well I want to use your womb is wrong.
4 Are you who don't want abortion going to stay with the woman 24/7 to prevent her going somewhere else where she can have an abortion?

I dont know what it is about your post.. maybe its just the lack of heart with all the matter of fact statements.... but your outlook and demeanor makes me sad.... :sad1:
 
I'm pro life. It's not for me to judge women who choose abortion, however,
I just cannot accept partial brith or babies who are born alive and left to die.
 
4 Are you who don't want abortion going to stay with the woman 24/7 to prevent her going somewhere else where she can have an abortion?

This is the flaw in the system. Preventing legal abortions does not prevent abortions. It prevents safe environments for women to have the procedure carried out. This is why, no matter what I believed, I'll always be pro-choice.
 
I dont know what it is about your post.. maybe its just the lack of heart with all the matter of fact statements.... but your outlook and demeanor makes me sad.... :sad1:


Its not a matter of heart, that is good but we have to think of the practicalities. Who will look after these extra children? Will there be more dead babies found?
 
I dont know what it is about your post.. maybe its just the lack of heart with all the matter of fact statements.... but your outlook and demeanor makes me sad.... :sad1:

I think this person is just being realistic-what we all need to be if the situation occurs that a pro-life/no exceptions leader comes into office. It sounds rosy and easy to just say "Adoption is the answer!" but the fact of the matter is, it is not that black & white & life is not all roses and daffodils. These are real issues that need to be addressed or answered before you overturn something huge like abortions. We live in a complicated society with complicated problems & complicated people who are going to do what they will if someone takes away their rights. & yes, it is sad, but it's even sadder to just brush it under the rug without thought or preparation. The worst thing a government can do is say "We'll cross that bridge if we get there" because it's often too late.
 
I've been there. You know, that place where having my fatally disabled baby would have killed me. (And I do mean fatally disabled; she could not survive outside the womb. She would have lived for perhaps an hour after birth; no more.) Her condition was causing my kidneys to fail rapidly; I would have needed daily dialysis or a transplant if I tried to make it to term. The condition I had has an occurrence rate of about 1 in 6000 pregnancies.

The thing is, I had existing children. What about them? Did I just leave them behind or saddle them with a seriously ill mother, for the sake of a sibling that would not live no matter what anyone did? I don't have that kind of faith, I guess, but I chose my healthy, living children who needed me, over the one who literally could not live without my body. It's the saddest thing in my life that I had to make that decision, but if it happened again I would do the same thing. I feel that it was my duty as their mother -- the mother of ALL of them.
 
I've been there. You know, that place where having my fatally disabled baby would have killed me. (And I do mean fatally disabled; she could not survive outside the womb. She would have lived for perhaps an hour after birth; no more.) Her condition was causing my kidneys to fail rapidly; I would have needed daily dialysis or a transplant if I tried to make it to term. The condition I had has an occurrence rate of about 1 in 6000 pregnancies.

The thing is, I had existing children. What about them? Did I just leave them behind or saddle them with a seriously ill mother, for the sake of a sibling that would not live no matter what anyone did? I don't have that kind of faith, I guess, but I chose my healthy, living children who needed me, over the one who literally could not live without my body. It's the saddest thing in my life that I had to make that decision, but if it happened again I would do the same thing. I feel that it was my duty as their mother -- the mother of ALL of them.

1 month ago...I wouldn't have necessarily agreed with you...
Today? I'm with you 100%. Peoples individual situations make the difference, and some decisions we have to make are the hardest we'll ever face. (Re-reading your post makes me cry)

I just think making blanket statements (the ones I mentioned of the heart) are rude and uncaring. But...again, its MY situation that makes me feel that way, and I do realize some people are just like that.. Heck, I know I am on certain things... just not THIS.

So... I guess it means this...in regards to the original post. There should be exceptions, and if thats how you feel, take that into account when following Palin. I have, all my life been Pro-Life... BUT...when I look at the big picture, I haven't always been comfortable making that decision for others. I *DO* think (IMHO) it should only be offered for certain situations, and NOT as a form of birth control or 'oops nights'... but, like I've said before, until you've walked a mile in someone elses shoes, we aren't the one to judge the decisions...
 
1 month ago...I wouldn't have necessarily agreed with you...
Today? I'm with you 100%. Peoples individual situations make the difference, and some decisions we have to make are the hardest we'll ever face. (Re-reading your post makes me cry)

I just think making blanket statements (the ones I mentioned of the heart) are rude and uncaring. But...again, its MY situation that makes me feel that way, and I do realize some people are just like that.. Heck, I know I am on certain things... just not THIS.

So... I guess it means this...in regards to the original post. There should be exceptions, and if thats how you feel, take that into account when following Palin. I have, all my life been Pro-Life... BUT...when I look at the big picture, I haven't always been comfortable making that decision for others. I *DO* think (IMHO) it should only be offered for certain situations, and NOT as a form of birth control or 'oops nights'... but, like I've said before, until you've walked a mile in someone elses shoes, we aren't the one to judge the decisions...

That is a very honest and well-written post. I guess I am still also in that gray area-although I look at it is "Pro-choice with limitations." I am also against using abortion as a method of birth control, but I am not against abortion altogether-too many different scenarios to consider. I am very disappointed that I still am yet to find any interviews, quotes, etc...with Palin discussing her game plan on this matter....
 


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