Packing a lunch...ice pack or not?

[goofyintoronto]

not trying to be argumentative here, but at what temp is it warm enough for bacteria to reproduce, and how cool does an icepack keep a lunch box? inquiring(enquiring) minds want to know.

It would be a good science fair experiment to compare lunches with an ice pack to those without...temperature of food, presence of bacteria etc!

LOL to both above. Very good points here! I'd like to know as well.

 

[mjkacmom]

Nope, no ice pack usually. The sandwiches are dry, with processed cold cuts (only the best for my kids! ).

That said, I will make your sandwich until middle school (but the kids pack their fruit/snack/drink), but once they get to middle school, they're on their own. Some might enjoy making lunches for their kids - but I don't! When my oldest was young, mornings in our house was obviously chaos, so I learned to delegate.

 

[goofyintoronto]

Nope, no ice pack usually. The sandwiches are dry, with processed cold cuts (only the best for my kids! ).

That said, I will make your sandwich until middle school (but the kids pack their fruit/snack/drink), but once they get to middle school, they're on their own. Some might enjoy making lunches for their kids - but I don't! When my oldest was young, mornings in our house was obviously chaos, so I learned to delegate.

Only the best for mine too!

You have 5 kids thou, youre smart to delegate!

 

[bcla]

not trying to be argumentative here, but at what temp is it warm enough for bacteria to reproduce, and how cool does an icepack keep a lunch box? inquiring(enquiring) minds want to know.

There's no one answer. Bacteria do grow even in a refrigerator; freezing is about the only way to stop growth. The main issue is how fast, and that depends on way too many factors to give a single answer. Obviously food handling standards set specific guidelines.

Someone brought up mayo as being a source of illness, but that's not generally so. The more dangerous bacteria tend to grow in high-protein sources like lunch meats. Stuff like dry salame or other salt-cured meats apparently provide an environment that is harsh for bacteria. However, I've kept that stuff around for a while and mold grows on it. Hams or bologna are cured with nitrates. That doesn't mean bacteria won't grow or that you can't get sick. I'm pretty sure every kid has gotten sick to some degree from food-borne bacteria, but often the symptoms are mild. It might be mild diarrhea or a barely perceptible tummy ache.

 

[aprilchem]

not trying to be argumentative here, but at what temp is it warm enough for bacteria to reproduce, and how cool does an icepack keep a lunch box? inquiring(enquiring) minds want to know.

I think answers to the first question differ, but I can tell you that the ice packs I use keep our lunch boxes around 42-45 degrees over a period of 8 hours. I know because I'm a scientist and I put a thermocouple in there. The icepacks from the big box store allowed the temperature to raise to ambient temperature after 8 hours.

 

[PollyannaMom]

DS normally takes an insulated bag, with an plastic ice pack, if he brings a sandwich. But on field trip days, when they need a completely disposable lunch, I use extra soy sauce or ketchup packets that I put in the freezer when we order out. (We use them for small injuries, too.)

 

[GaSleepingBeautyFan]

I asked my daughter (15) who makes her own lunch every day what she does and she doesn't use an ice pack.

She just puts her lunch in a brown bag so she can toss it at the end of the lunch period.
She hasn't gotten sick yet from it.

 

[tcufrog]

There are so many alternatives to peanut butter these days. My son's school doesn't allow peanut butter so when he wants a peanut butter and jelly or banana sandwich I use soy or almond butter. What about doing that?

 

[Jedana]

not trying to be argumentative here, but at what temp is it warm enough for bacteria to reproduce, and how cool does an icepack keep a lunch box? inquiring(enquiring) minds want to know.

40-140 degrees is the temperature zone for bacterial growth







In order to substantially decrease your risk of food poisoning you must keep your foods at a safe temperature and out of the infamous “danger zone.” Now what exactly is this “danger zone”?

What is the Danger Zone?

As the name suggests, the danger zone refers to the most dangerous temperature for foods, between 40°F and 140°F. This range of temperature is dangerous because it’s below the temperature at which heat destroys bacteria (above 160°F), yet above the cooling range (below 40°F) where the growth of bacteria is slowed.

Why So Dangerous?

A single bacterium can multiply to trillions in just twenty-four hours when between 40°F and 140°F. This is because bacteria double approximately every twenty minutes under the right conditions: food, moisture, oxygen and warm temperature. Many foods, with their rich supply of nutrients and moist quality, offer the perfect environment for bacteria to grow. You don’t want to spur this bacteria growth by providing a warm temperature as well.


How to Avoid Food Poisoning

Harmful bacteria are one of the main sources of food poisoning in the United States. But most healthy adults don’t need to worry about them because your body can handle small amounts of bacteria with no health threat. However, food poisoning risks rise when bacteria multiply to large numbers, which can happen with mishandled foods.

Note: Populations at a high risk for food poisoning – pregnant women, young children, older adults and people with weakened immune systems – are at a greater risk for food poisoning even when small amounts of bacteria are present.



In order to avoid food poisoning, make sure to keep your foods out of the danger zone. Refrigerate all foods within two hours or one hour if it is over 90°F outside, and before eating reheat to a safe minimum internal temperature.

 

[leebee]

We never worry about it. The food's been cooked, usually processed or treated, and I'm careful in my kitchen not to cross contaminate and store leftovers properly and promptly. I know that 40-140 is called "the danger zone" but when we are growing bacteria in the lab, it has to be pretty close to OUR body temperature to grow well, as well as adequately aerated (with shaking) to get a good culture going.

And I never worry about yogurt. As a fermented food, it's already "contaminated" and teeming with bacteria; pH is low enough to keep most other stuff from growing, and it's been factory-sealed. I'm not going to worry about it for the 4-6 hours it's in my lunch bag.

 

[dawnhaze]

I don't have any kids, but I would never in a million years eat a lunch I packed for myself without an ice pack. I usually use two plus a half frozen water bottle when I pack lunch for work, but it usually sits 6 hours before I can eat it.

I also don't eat deli sandwiches left out at parties or events that aren't on ice unless I know exactly how long they've been out, which is rare.

 

[toystory1130]

Why take a chance?? Ice pack are what a few bucks and they are reuseable. I pack one in her lunch everyday, it takes seconds. Food illness sometimes can be hard to identify, so you might think they just have a simple stomach bug and really they have food poisoning.

And to the poster who commented a few pages back we are raising unstrong children, I disagree. Smoking use to be the thing to do until we found out it kills us. Education is a good thing...

 

[goofyintoronto]

Why take a chance?? Ice pack are what a few bucks and they are reuseable. I pack one in her lunch everyday, it takes seconds. Food illness sometimes can be hard to identify, so you might think they just have a simple stomach bug and really they have food poisoning.

And to the poster who commented a few pages back we are raising unstrong children, I disagree. Smoking use to be the thing to do until we found out it kills us. Education is a good thing...

Why take a chance? All my years in school ive never had an icepack and never got sick, not once. My son has never had an icepack and i've even packed stuff like tuna sandwiches and yogurt, and guess what? He never gets sick. I think im fine sticking to the way i've been doing it all these years.

 

[soccerdad72]

Why take a chance?? Ice pack are what a few bucks and they are reuseable. I pack one in her lunch everyday, it takes seconds. Food illness sometimes can be hard to identify, so you might think they just have a simple stomach bug and really they have food poisoning.

I barely get the lunch bag back half the time from my 4th grader. If I started packing ice packs each time, I'd be going through a dozen of them every month.

 

[Bektasmic]

I had the same issue. We did 2 things-he took his lunch in a Packitt (the bag itself is an ice pack that you freeze). We put the brown paper lunch bag right into the Packitt and then he just removed the bag at lunchtime so less hassle (he called it his locker fridge). It also kept that bag nice and clean which was awesome b/c we all just looooove cleaning those things out!

He would also sometimes take a couple frozen yogurts which would mostly melt before lunchtime but he also liked frozen.

 

[goofyintoronto]

I barely get the lunch bag back half the time from my 4th grader. If I started packing ice packs each time, I'd be going through a dozen of them every month.

LOL! Yes good point. Same here as well. He loses his lunch bag all the time. I'd be replacing them every day. At that rate, i'd need to order ice packs by the case!

 

[JanaDee]

Whenever my kids would take a lunch in the past, I always added an ice pack if there was something in the lunch that came out of the fridge. No exceptions.

They didn't take brown paper bags though, they used lunchboxes or I guess technically they would be considered very small thermal coolers.

 

[Jedana]

Why take a chance?? Ice pack are what a few bucks and they are reuseable. I pack one in her lunch everyday, it takes seconds. Food illness sometimes can be hard to identify, so you might think they just have a simple stomach bug and really they have food poisoning.

And to the poster who commented a few pages back we are raising unstrong children, I disagree. Smoking use to be the thing to do until we found out it kills us. Education is a good thing...

I had a whole thing typed out, accidentally clicked the back button on my mouse, and lost the whole darn thing.

So, instead of lecturing people, I will say this: I have worked in the food industry for over 30 years, from fast food cook to general manager of fine dining. Food safety is not something you want to play with.

Listeria---found in deli meats, hot dogs, pates, soft cheeses, and raw sprouts can take up to 70 days to show symptoms.

Mold found on food is not just on the surface--it has grown "roots" down into the food, and may have spread toxins into the food.

Clostridium perfringens cells (which cause food poisoning) will die when the food is heated above 140 degrees, but the spores that cause the cells do not die. If not properly cooked or cooled, the spores will grow more cells.

Most food poisoning symptoms can be misdiagnosed as stomach flu or a virus. Headache, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, fever, stiff neck, cramps and stomach pain---just to name a few. Without a sample, a doctor cannot accurately diagnose food poisoning---he can make an educated assumption, but not a positive diagnosis.

http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/facts.html

http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/index.html

For those who don't follow the food safety guidelines, note that you are putting more than yourself at risk. Food poisoning can be spread from person to person. A pregnant woman can miscarry if she get listeria. Transplant patients, the very young and the very old might die if they get food poisoning.

It is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to food safety.

 

[wvjules]

Not one person has said they don't use an ice pack and have gotten sick. I think that says a lot right there. That includes me and my DD.

Also, if the danger zone is 40+ then the ice pack that a PP mentioned that keeps the food at 42-44(?) isn't keeping it safe afterall.

ETA: How many cases of listeria from a non-ice-packed lunch have actually occured? I'll bet it's miniscule.

 

[2binak]

I always put an ice pack in my and DD's lunch bags. Just the thought of eating warm deli meat makes me feel nauseous