Our school sent our child home with workbooks

[bsnyder]

I was watching a news show the other day and there are about 12,000 seniors in Florida that may not graduate because of the proficencies. A woman in charge said that some of those students are honor students, already accepted at Ivy league colleges, etc.

I'd like to see proof of this. Any student that has been accepted to an Ivy League college would have to score extremely high on the SAT or ACT. The FCAT is not as difficult a test as the SAT or the ACT. So either something is extremely fishy with this statement, or that student didn't think the FCAT mattered and maybe "christmas treed" their test answers.

 

[bsnyder]

As for the issue of workbooks, I'm all for them.

My DD, finishing 3rd grade, has had summer work since she finished Pre-K4. This year she'll have a phonics workbook, a math workbook and a reading list of required books. She's also going to be tutored once a week in grammer, because she really struggled in that subject the last half of this year.

She'll also have plenty of fun - 2 weeks of day camp, 2 weeks of sleepaway camp, several family vacations and just hanging out with mom and friends.

 

[d.kurz]

Originally posted by DEH3rd


I wish we could test the parents in this world who will not require a little work for their children over the summer. Learning is a life-long process. You don't leave your brains in the desk with the rest of your books in June. TRhings are quite competitive these days...a little "off-season workout" is nothing but good for children.

The biggest problem in education, though is not the politicians, it is the parents.

20% are great & supportive. When you call home, they always want to help the process.

20% are quiietly responsible, and make sure that their kids are well prepared, hardworking & respectful

20% are apathetic

40% think that their children are angels from heaven who poop chocolate icecream, and the fact that all seven of their teachers, 3 administrators, 2 guidance councelors and the local police chief have contacted them to help discipline their child can only be attributed to the fact that everyone in the public school system has failed their child and has a personal agenda against all of their family for the past seventeen generations! (breath) The parents complaining about their kids having to do a little work are going to be the ones who usually fall into this category. I know you will reply indignantly, but be a little introspective. It is because of parents like you that curriculums have been "dumbed down" over the past decade. Johnny's bookbag is too heavy....too much homework...not enough time for the 13 baseball leagues he is in....Get a grip & help your kid succeed. Stop whining!
If you don't like it, CONTACT THE POLITICIANS. Our options are nil.

You know, I never get into arguments on this board. The sweeping generalizations putting me in that 40% are a bit more than I can bear. I'm sorry, but the state of the schools should not be blamed on the parents. Perhaps with your attitude you are in the wrong line of work. And if you are so gung ho on kids doing school work in the summer, how about we go to year-round school?? There's something we in the horrible 40% could get behind. I do not believe that school should be a full-time job. There IS such a thing as too much homework.

FYI, I am more likely in your 1st OR 2nd 20%'s.

STOP WHINING....great advice. JMHO, of course.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by d.kurz
There IS such a thing as too much homework.

Of course there is. But most of the parents on this thread don't think there should be any, during the summer break.

In my daughter's case, doing 30-45 minutes of school work several times a week is not going to turn her 12 weeks of vacation into a drudgery. Instead, it will help her retain what she learned this year.

 

[gepetto]

Originally posted by bsnyder
Of course there is. But most of the parents on this thread don't think there should be any, during the summer break.

In my daughter's case, doing 30-45 minutes of school work several times a week is not going to turn her 12 weeks of vacation into a drudgery. Instead, it will help her retain what she learned this year.

My child is going into 4th grade. This summer he will be reading and continuing to practice his multiplication tables. A few hours/week is not drudgery.

 

[disneyjunkie]

In September my son will be in the 7th grade. During the summers he spends 30 minutes a day working on math, 30 minutes working on ELA and spelling and 1 hour reading.
The sleep away camp he has attended for the last two years gives the kids about 2 hours of educational instruction Monday - Friday.

I don't think 10 hours a week of school work will destroy a child's summer.

Then again I'm one of those crazy parents that expects my son to have homework during Christmas, winter and Easter break.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

OK, well here in MO where I am at they DO NOT give out workbooks. Did you have to pay for them?
That would be the only way we would get a book, if we paid for it or if you went to summer school...

Seventh graders preparing for SAT? Hmmmm I am going to have to look into that. My dd will be going into 7th next year and here in the backwoods of America I think parents would think I am crazy if I had dd do this.
Now if she can do this, I would be interested in finding out more details on how you would go about this.

BTW I am on the PTA for next year, a classroom helper for many years, and my kids poop stinky stuff.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by The Mystery Machine
Seventh graders preparing for SAT? Hmmmm I am going to have to look into that. My dd will be going into 7th next year and here in the backwoods of America I think parents would think I am crazy if I had dd do this.
Now if she can do this, I would be interested in finding out more details on how you would go about this.

My son and many of classmates are taking the SAT this fall. (they'll be in the 7th grade) I got him The Princeton Review Inside The SAT & PSAT. I loaded it Sunday and he's been working on it a little each night.

 

[Talking Hands]

Originally posted by lisajl
I was watching a news show the other day and there are about 12,000 seniors in Florida that may not graduate because of the proficencies. A woman in charge said that some of those students are honor students, already accepted at Ivy league colleges, etc.

I'd like to see proof of this. You see, I have seen these tests, plus my daughters took these tests or similar at one point. Although they are named differently they have been given in Florida for quite a while. Both my girls had no problem with them. My oldest on what is the written portion got a 5.5 and her sister a 5.0. I forgot what they both got on the math portions.
Yes we teach the test but frankly we teach the material anyway. It is nothing difficult or out of line. Basic language and math skills. Of course, if your child is not getting support at home, not turning in homework, misbehaving in class etc there is little a teacher can do. Education is not the sole responsibility of the teacher and school system but a shared responsibility between the schools and the home.

 

[lisajl]

Thank you all for your replies. It is not that I don't expect him to do work over the summer. On the contrary. We will work a lot with math. He is a bit behind on that subject.

What I don't like is the school pushing it on us. They have been discussing these tests since the first grade.
Give me and my son a break! He will work a bit over the summer.
Probably not every day, and most likely not on each subject everyday. But, when the teacher tells me in front of my child that he will not do well, I have a big problem with that.
He has been stessing out about this test since they mentioned it. (and BTW, they keep mentioning it).
Every child in our third grade classes got these books. Just not my IEP child. And please, I did not mean for this to become a debate. For those of you with "normal learning" children, God bless you and I am happy for you. For those of us with children that have a LD, God bless us, too. We have a bit more work to do, or at least I do with mine.

I have put up with a teacher that shows no emotion or care all this year. All she does is push the test. Yes, he will take the test, and he will probably do well. I think he will do better than the teachers think.

Now, as far as the Florida students. I believe it was on the Fox news channel that I saw that information. You may want to check them out online. I did not make it up. There was a person from the state and a person from the school system discussing the problems with the tests.


BTW, I am not in the 40%. It may be hard for you to believe, but I make my son do his homework as soon as he gets home. He works on it by himself and then I check it. If I find wrong answers we go over it until he understands it.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not a parent that could care less about my child. I love him and I want him to do well. I just think they keep hammering this test into his head and he may explode. Do I let him see or hear me talk about it, NO! I just listen to his concerns.

 

[DEH3rd]

no, you seem to be in the bottom %40 JMNTBHO.

 

[becka]

SAT prep in junior high? I sure didn't need any SAT prep in 7th grade and frankly the thought that they are pushing it at that age is IMHO shameful. I think most kids are aware that at some point they will need to take a college enterance exam but the more appropriate time to actually begin stressing the kids out is not until at least 9-10th grade. Instead of spending 1 hr/week on SAT prep perhaps these kids could be learning more 7th grade material and that will help them when the time comes to take the actual test.

I don't even have kids in school yet but from what I hear from friends who do have kids, my friends who are teachers and from what I saw during my math education classes it all scares me half to death. I already FEAR the types of crap that my kids will have to put up with. Go ahead and label my one of your 40%'ers but I don't think that the teachers should be telling kids that they are going to flunk some test if they don't complete 10 workbooks this summer. These are still kids and to stress them out at this age over ONE test a whole year in advance is IMHO just wrong. I don't buy the whole excuse that everything is so competitive today. Fourth grade should NEVER be competitive. Kids this age should still be mastering the basics and starting to get deeper into additional subjects NOT prepping for their college entrance exams.

Summer is for kids to decompress as well as to continue the learning process. My problem with workbooks, etc. is that there are so many more wonderful ways for kids to be educated during the summer instead of rote book learning. Trips to museums, zoos, reading groups at the local library, science experiments in the backyard, reading a good book on a rainy afternoon, learning math making cookies or at the grocery store, etc. These are the types of "summer learning" that I want my kids to engage in.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by becka
SAT prep in junior high? I sure didn't need any SAT prep in 7th grade and frankly the thought that they are pushing it at that age is IMHO shameful. I think most kids are aware that at some point they will need to take a college enterance exam but the more appropriate time to actually begin stressing the kids out is not until at least 9-10th grade. Instead of spending 1 hr/week on SAT prep perhaps these kids could be learning more 7th grade material and that will help them when the time comes to take the actual test.

What's wrong with a child that's able to handle this test taking it? Who said these kids are stressed? My son WANTED to take the test last fall. I said no. Several students from his school are involved in the John Hopkins Center for Talented Youth. 2 girls will take classes at Standford for 3 weeks this summer. Several students took classes at John Hopkins last summer. DS wants to do the John Hopkins program next summer. In order to take part he has to take the SAT.

If a child is having problems with basic math and verbal skills, then of course they shouldn't take the SAT.

My son happens to be a good test taker. The idea of taking a test does not bother him. It's a good thing that it doesn't because he will have to take tons of test before he graduates from high school.


OH, if my son had not done well on his state exams in 4th grade, he would not have been able to attend the excellent school he attends now. 4th grade test scores are used to determine a child's ability to handle the work at son's school. They also have to pass a reading and math test to attend the school. (this is a public school)

There are many elementary, junior high, and high schools in New York City that require students to pass a written exam in order to attend. If you want your kids to go to these schools, they have to be able to take test.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

So are you saying that a child has to be in a program of some sort to take the SAT?
Is taking the SAT open to the anyone?

 

[becka]

Originally posted by disneyjunkie
What's wrong with a child that's able to handle this test taking it? Who said these kids are stressed? My son WANTED to take the test last fall. I said no. Several students from his school are involved in the John Hopkins Center for Talented Youth. 2 girls will take classes at Standford for 3 weeks this summer. Several students took classes at John Hopkins last summer. DS wants to do the John Hopkins program next summer. In order to take part he has to take the SAT.

If a child is having problems with basic math and verbal skills, then of course they shouldn't take the SAT.

There is nothing wrong with a kid who has the ability and WANTS to take the SAT looking at prep work. My concern is that the average 7th grader is doing SAT prep work and that is not necessary. Your average 7th grader is not prepared for the concepts tested for on the SAT/ACT. The SAT covers more than basic math and verbal skills unless trigonometry is now considered basic 7th grad math.

My son happens to be a good test taker. The idea of taking a test does not bother him. It's a good thing that it doesn't because he will have to take tons of test before he graduates from high school.

I also was a good test taker and I never really stressed out over tests. I was even pretty calm for my ACT (we don't usually use the SAT here in the midwest) but there are lots of kids who do get stressed out and while a certain level of stress is OK this constant pressure on elementary kids to perform on ONE test is bothersome for me. Fourth graders do not have the coping skills that older adolescents and adults have to deal with stress. They make it sound like if they do not perform well on every area of the test in 4th grade that they will never succeed later on in life and we all know that is just not the case. I just think that is too much pressure for your average 4th grader who is probably about 9 years old. That is much too young for your average kid to be worried about not getting into the college of their choice because they scored below average on the fractions portion of ONE test.

 

[Tess]

When I took the ACT many, many years ago--I did ZERO preparation--none, nada, zip. I didn't give the test a single thought until I sat down to take it. We were not pressured to "prepare" ad nauseum. This was a good thing because I used to be a very easily stressed person--a real Nervous Nellie type.

If our children are given proper and thorough instruction by competent personnel throughout their school years, that should hold them in good stead for their "standardized tests", whatever form those tests take.

All this fuss about getting terrific SAT (or in our case ACT) scores is a bunch of bunk. Yeah, it's a competitive world; but how many of our kids are going to attend an IVY league school, MIT, or other university that accepts only the best and brightest? If that is your goal for your child (and really it should be the child's goal, not yours) then, by all means spend your precious childhood years poring over every workbook, school catalog, mock test, and test-taking aid you are able to find. Just remember, there's always someone prettier, thinner, taller, and smarter out there and they are probably working for a "C" student. Grades and test scores aren't the end all in the universe--just ask anyone who's graduated from HS or university.

I know, for our family, if I have the choice between trying to force feed my kids dry text material OR encouraging them to read, smell the roses, interact with others, explore their world and enjoy their breaks--the latter will win every time! On the other side of that fence, when they are in school--they work VERY hard and I am on them like flies on the smelly stuff they both emit.

For the teacher that's interested--I am NOT in the 40%--my two students are in 9th & 7th grades--both 4.0 students AND won't be doing assigned work in the summer. Further, I scored a 29 on the ACT--fairly respectable as I recall. . .

 

[jrmasm]

My concern is that the average 7th grader is doing SAT prep work and that is not necessary. Your average 7th grader is not prepared for the concepts tested for on the SAT/ACT.

Back when I was a wee lass (a million years ago), students that a scored a certain score or higher on their 6th grade standardized tests were "identified" and their names were given to a talent search. These students were given the option of taking the SATs in 7th grade and then their scores were given to the talent search. Back then, I believe that the Johns Hopkins program was the only one that existed so if you scored a certain score on the SATs then you were elligible to attend one of their summer camps. I believe that only the children that were "identified" were allowed to take that SATs in 7th grade and they certaintly were not required.

I think that this may be what disneyjunkie is saying.

 

[Karel]

Originally posted by becka

: but I don't think that the teachers should be telling kids that they are going to flunk some test if they don't complete 10 workbooks this summer. These are still kids and to stress them out at this age over ONE test a whole year in advance is IMHO just wrong. I don't buy the whole excuse that everything is so competitive today. Fourth grade should NEVER be competitive. Kids this age should still be mastering the basics and starting to get deeper into additional subjects NOT prepping for their college entrance exams.

.

I don't think that the teachers are telling the kids they are going to flunk a test if they don't complete the workbooks. I don't think there's any flunking involved in standardized testing but the schools do want children to do well because it's a reflection on them. Our town fourth graders do very well on the fourth grade test, consistanly being on the top for our county but I don't feel there's a lot of pressure on the children. Usually a note comes home the week before informing parents of the test dates, asking them to make sure that the children get enough rest and eat a good breakfast.

Nobody ever said anything about fourth graders prepping for college exams.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

My concern is that the average 7th grader is doing SAT prep work and that is not necessary. Your average 7th grader is not prepared for the concepts tested for on the SAT/ACT.

Well you're right. My 7th grader is pretty average (grade wise, I personally think he's exceptional but that's a Mom's opinion) and he is nowhere near ready to take the SAT exam.

Most of the schools around here start having the kids take sample SAT tests in Jr. High in order to prepare for the PSAT in High School. Many college scholarships are based off of PSAT scores. I don't think anybody can refute that there is a "trick" to taking these tests and that scores improve with practice. I just sometimes cynically wonder how long it will be until our school decides that the 2nd graders need to start studying those SAT vocabulary lists.

You're right Becka in that it is significantly different than what we faced in High School. I see some good in it and alot of bad. I also have to wonder, we see and hear so much about these Advanced Curriculums and the amazing things kids study these days, yet our school systems and so many of our students are failing and they are failing spectacuarly.

Obviously something does not add up.

 

[gepetto]

Originally posted by becka
Your average 7th grader is not prepared for the concepts tested for on the SAT/ACT. The SAT covers more than basic math and verbal skills unless trigonometry is now considered basic 7th grad math.

The 7th grader disneyjunkey was talking about was in a gifted program. Some gifted children are ready to take the SAT at that age.

In general, the teacher's are not to blame for the workload involved with end of grade test preparation. Blame the legislators.