Our dog bit DS...what do we do now?

[what about bob]

I agree...
My short answer - bye bye dog. I'm not going to be popular with the dog lovers here, but if it were my son, I wouldn't be comfortable letting the dog remain in the house. Period.
Regardless of the reason the dog bit the child, the steps that could be taken, etc., there are no guarantees that the dog won't do it again, and next time it could be worse than a scratch with no broken skin. You hear so many stories of "good dogs" and owners that "never thought" the dog would bite a child but did. Sorry - once would be enough - I would choose my child over the dog in a heartbeat.

I agree.

While pets are not expendable, neither are children.

 

[eliza61]

I agree...
My short answer - bye bye dog. I'm not going to be popular with the dog lovers here, but if it were my son, I wouldn't be comfortable letting the dog remain in the house. Period.
Regardless of the reason the dog bit the child, the steps that could be taken, etc., there are no guarantees that the dog won't do it again, and next time it could be worse than a scratch with no broken skin. You hear so many stories of "good dogs" and owners that "never thought" the dog would bite a child but did. Sorry - once would be enough - I would choose my child over the dog in a heartbeat.

I think what we're saying is it's not an "either or" situation. It's not about "choosing one over the other" there is and are very happy workable solutions to this. Sure there are on guarantees but there are no guarantees that a kid won't get hit by a car either heck there are no guarantees that the kid won't bite the dog.
Op,
we have large german shepards and kids. We had to train both to coexist with each other. We don't tolerate agressive behaviour from the dogs or our sons. Dogs are pack animals, in the wild alpha dogs usually eat first so Baxter is probably trying to gain a little dominance here. I'll echo all the other poster.
1st. get him checked out with the vet. If he gets a clean bill of health check out some training. Your vet could probably recommend great trainers.
In mean time. Seperate baxter during meal times. This is what we do with our dogs. Calvin & Hobbes are not allowed so much as a paw nail in the kitchen during dinner.

Oops almost forgot, can't remember how old your son was but if he's old enough take him to obedience class with you.

Dogs are wonderful pets. Good luck with yours.

 

[Jack'sGirl5]

This is a tough call. You have gotten some great advice on both sides and there are definately two ways to go here, two schools of thought. I have a Boxer I adore and a daughter I adore --- I do not know what I would do in a similar situation.

It may be that this is isolated and that the dog can be trained out of it. Because my dog is a huge boxer -- 95 pounds and very powerful, I worked with a trainer early and kept up on the training -- not jumping up (a true boxer trait) was especially tough. The dog is fabulous, non-aggressive and my daughter's best friend. The time spent was well worth it. If she bit my daughter, however, I don't know if I could take the chance on a second bite. At the very least she would be re-trained and supervised at all times with her for quite a while.

I think each situation is different and that you should do what is right for you. One thing I did not see discussed here, however, is your child's feelings. Is your child still comfortable with the dog or now fearful?

I have a similar situation with my parents dog. He had bitten my daughter three times unprovoked --- the last time on the rear as she went to sit on the couch. He has also bitten me, our babysitter and my stepmother twice. He is small (20 lbs) but the last time broke my daughter's skin through her jeans and left teeth marks for a week. I have talked to my parents and tried to get them to train their "baby". No dice. I asked them to kennel him while we are there. They don't want to do that. After the last time my daughter is truely fearful of the dog. So I just had to tell my father that we will not be coming to his house on Thanksgiving unless the dog is somewhere else. It was hard but I absolutely refuse to make my daughter live in fear.

So I guess my point is, how does your child feel about it?

 

[rottiemom]

All I am trying to say is that it has to be that family's decision wether they ar comfortable allowing the dog to remain. They have to decide if they feel that with proper training for both dog and people it can safely remain in the home.

Princessmom- I was in no way trying to single your post out but I realize that in quoting it I did just that. I apologize. And you're absolutely right, the OP & her family are the ones that will have to decide what's best. Thankfully I have never been in the same situation as the OP and I have no idea how I'd react.

OP, I didn't realize that Baxter had had extensive obedience training in the past but it is crucial to keep up with the training & commands throughout the dog's life. Plus, Baxter needs to obey everyone in the house, not just your DH. He's definitely pushing his boundaries now & so far has gotten away with it. Plus stealing food is self rewarding because most times the dog gets to eat what they've taken (DO NOT DO THIS- there were occasions in the early days with our rotties that I would pry their mouths open & take their "prize" away...but my girls had no issues with food agression. Please do not attempt this with Baxter, rather make sure that he doesn't have the opportunity to steal food).

I don't know where you're located OP but if you're in southern NY I know a fantastic behaviorist & trainer.

 

[goofy4tink]

Another dog trainer with 25+ years of experience chiming in. I agree with nilseks and the other trainers who have posted responses. This sounds like a basic food aggression & inappropriate possesiveness issue. The behavior can be modified, but will require guidance from a trainer/behaviorist with experience dealing with these types of issues. And safety must ALWAYS come first--do use the crate consistantly, and avoid taking any risks during the training period. I will say, however, that if you are not comfortable with attempting the rehabilitation of this 'rescue' dog... then there is no shame in turning him over to someone else who is aware of the issues and willing to commit to the challenge.

One thing I noticed in a reply, that I have to address: Please do NOT ever attempt to use an 'alpha roll' as a means of behavioral correction. That can be dangerous, as such an aggressive action could trigger an aggressive response. It is not typical canine behavior to forcibly roll other less dominant canines. Submissive canines actually voluntarily roll over of their own accord, as a means of demonstrating their submission to a more dominant animal. May sound like a fine line, but there is a major difference from the dog's point of view. To physically force your dog to roll over (and then holding him in that position) is not a constructive training tool... and the Monk who originally introduced the whole 'alpha roll' concept has long since retracted that suggestion.

Thanks for mentioning this about 'alpha-rolling'. If a dog has bitten someone, even just one time, there is no way someone should be alpha-rolling him..he's too big, and the person could be seriously injured!!!
I didn't read all the posts, but it seems that the dog had had some training? Get back to it! Once a dog starts biting, and I don't care what the reason is, there has to be some fast and hard training going on. I love dogs, a lot. But, they are second class compared to my family or others! Yes, it's fine to crate the dog..or to put it in a room by himself when people are visiting. But...what happens if Fido gets out, and bites someone, badly? There is no room for wishy-washiness here. The dog needs to be trained...completely. A dog that is not trustable around people is not suitable to be a family pet.

I have an 85 lb golden retriever. I can take anything I want out of his mouth... a bone, his dinner, anything. But, that is how he was brought up and trained. I can leave anything on a table and not worry that he will grab it. Is it hard? Yes, it is hard work, and you have to keep at it...but it is so worth it in the end. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is a sore spot for me....I can not abide untrained dogs. They are unhappy, their owners are unhappy.
Please try to get your dog, and the family, into a regular, weekly obedience program. You will all be so happy when your dog is trustable again. Our pets are like family to us, and it is really hard to bear when problems like these come along. Sure, the dog has had some changes to deal with. And perhaps you, the owners, didn't take the appropriate steps to make the transitions easier for him. But, it may not be too late....hopefully a good trainer will be able to help you out.
Good luck...I truly hope it all works out for you!!!

 

[nilseks]

One thing I noticed in a reply, that I have to address: Please do NOT ever attempt to use an 'alpha roll' as a means of behavioral correction. That can be dangerous, as such an aggressive action could trigger an aggressive response.

Thank you for pointing that out, Matt'sMom! The alpha roll is considered very antiquated and when I hear of a trainer using it--that's a big red flag. I know 'dog people' who have used it effectively but IMO it does much more harm than good. Years ago before I knew what the heck I was doing, a trainer alpha rolled my newly adopted rescue dog. Unfortunately I saw first hand that you should never, ever do that!!

In regards to some of the responses about putting the dog down, our vet once made an excellent succinct statement to me: "People trump dogs". I agree with that wholeheartedly, particularly when children are involved. However, working with dogs as much as I do, I also realize that dogs just like people can have behavioral problems which can be remedied. Plain and simple, Baxter crossed a line because he was not 'told' that he wasn't allowed to do so. Simple fix, teach him that he can't do that. Dogs have hundreds, even thousands of years of food/prey drive "built in" to them. When we take a dog into our home we cannot just expect them to understand our rules; we have to consistently show ourselves to be the leaders of the house. Sounds like you've laid a good foundation of training for Baxter, and you probably know how to get back to where you need to be with him.

OP, I commend you for reaching out and trying to find a solution to the problem. Regardless of whatever judgemental statements people may make in response, there's no right or wrong because you are at least taking the time do try and figure out what's best for your family. I think it's great that you're welcoming input.

 

[angelat]

Please have the dog checked by a vet before you make any decisions. I had a dog who was getting older who bit me out of the blue for no good reason. It was such a strange situation that we decided to take him to the vet and have him evaluated. It turned out the dog was having thyriod problems. the vet gave us meds to balance him out and he was back to the old dog we loved in no time. our pets are an extention of our family. I agree with you about not wanting to take the chance with an agressive dog around children, but please give the dog a chance with a vet check and maybe some behavior training. A shelter wont adopt out an agressive dog. He will most liking be killed.

Best of luck . I know the decision is a tuff one.

I was also going to suggest this. My sister had a great dane who became agressive at around a year old. The vet checked him and found that he had a thyroid problem. Of course he had to be on medication for all of his life, but he was much more happy and mellow once the problem was solved.

While it isn't guaranteed that you will find this problem to be the cause Baxter's behaviour, it is certainly looking into before putting the dog down.

 

[nessz79]

You know, another solution that may help if OP decides to keep and work with the dog (your decision, I believe kids come first and only you know if you are willing to go through rehabilitating the dog), the Dog Whisperer is a great show. Cesar is amazing. Anyway, I think his best suggestion because so few of us actually do it, is exercise your dog FIRST. Most dogs do not get a 45 minute daily walk. Cesar believes that exercise, walking as a pack is essential to discipline.

Once the walk is down, then discipline. Affection is last.

The shows are on the National Geographic Channel and he has books and DVD's. He can work with just about any dog.

The most important thing is for the ENTIRE family to be Alpha above your dog. Children must be Alpha.

Also, something I often see on the show is that hyperactive dogs ARE being aggressive when they jump on kids or push them around. Just because they don't bite doesn't mean that they haven't been aggressive. Mentioning that because you say that the dog is hyper.

Good luck to you. We got rid of a 14 year old dog because no one had a solution as to why he was so suddenly aggressive. I had to keep him in another room all the time and it was impossible to isolate him completely from the children. It was a very difficult decision ( so no flames, please!), but one I felt had to be made for the safety of my young children.

 

[Tiffa]

Back to the breed Australian Shepherds even mixed breed need plenty of EXERCISE! Lots of walking and playing something everyday, they will find something to entertain themselves in a bad way.

 

[nilseks]

We got rid of a 14 year old dog because no one had a solution as to why he was so suddenly aggressive.

Really? This is by no means a flame (really) but I am stunned that your vet couldn't figure out what was going on with him. If there was no medical reason (i.e. if you had blood tests that showed nothing unusual) I'd say 99% chance it was senile dementia. The vast majority of older dogs get dementia at some point; it's more common than not. It can be to varying degrees but just like people with Alzheimer's/dementia can tend to get mean, it is really common for old dogs to get snappy/mean/aggressive.

We are going through this right now with one of our dogs, and I've had to do a lot of tweaking on meds, finally resulting to homeopathics that seem to be working better than prescription drugs. We've even had an appt. to have him euthanized and over a weekend while we were waiting, the herbs started working some magic and he's still with us. But if it makes you feel any better about putting him down, unfortunately the end result is usually the same once they travel down that road.

 

[WantToGoNow]

A year ago our dog Bucky (Miniature Daschund) bit my dd. She was 3 years old at the time. She sat her yogurt down and he grabbed it and ran. She ran after him and dove on his back. He also bit her in the face. However, she did have broken skin, had to have plastic surgery and has 2 scars that she will have for her lifetime on her left cheek.

The Humane Society came out the next day and gave him a physical and put him on house arrest for 10 days. This was to determine that he did not have Rabies. After 10 days he was released for house arrest and still lives here with us. As the ER doctor, Plastic Surgeon and pediatrician all agreed - the dog is not vicious but all dogs will be protective of food - once he touched that yogurt, it was officially his.

Arika loves that dog and the first thing she did when she got home from the hospital early the following morning (about 2:00 am) was wrap her arms around him and hug him.

T.

 

[dawnball]

My biggest concern is the WHAT IF... I honestly think we can overcome the issue and my own kids will be fine with him. But what if something happens to a neighbor or something and it comes out that he had a supposed history of aggressiveness? You never know how people will twist things, you know?

No offense intended - but your dog doesn't have a "supposed history" of aggressiveness. He HAS a history of aggressiveness. Yes, he's only food aggressive - but if something happens to a neighbor - he already has a history.

Personally, I think that there are two valid options. 1) Train him and keep him well disciplined. This should have been nipped in the bud when he started stealing food, and certainly when he nipped at you. Even if there's a medical reason underlying - you need to start investigating/trying to solve at the first sign of trouble. 2) Put him down/rehome him. If you aren't willing to commit to regular obedience work and making sure that this never happens again - put him down if you can't find someone to rehome him.

Food aggression is a "fixable" issue, particularly if you work quickly and consistently on both management and training. You just have to decide if you are willing and able.

 

[nessz79]

Really? This is by no means a flame (really) but I am stunned that your vet couldn't figure out what was going on with him. If there was no medical reason (i.e. if you had blood tests that showed nothing unusual) I'd say 99% chance it was senile dementia. The vast majority of older dogs get dementia at some point; it's more common than not. It can be to varying degrees but just like people with Alzheimer's/dementia can tend to get mean, it is really common for old dogs to get snappy/mean/aggressive.

We are going through this right now with one of our dogs, and I've had to do a lot of tweaking on meds, finally resulting to homeopathics that seem to be working better than prescription drugs. We've even had an appt. to have him euthanized and over a weekend while we were waiting, the herbs started working some magic and he's still with us. But if it makes you feel any better about putting him down, unfortunately the end result is usually the same once they travel down that road.

Our vet really was not helpful at all. Never gave us any solutions and refused to put him down since he couldn't find anything wrong with him. So we had to give him to the animal shelter. It was really awful, but he had become so unpredictable (he attacked me when I walked by him one day). He was a dalmation/lab mix so 14 years old was pretty old for him. It was sad but we did what we felt was our only option at the time.

 

[what about bob]

Our vet really was not helpful at all. Never gave us any solutions and refused to put him down since he couldn't find anything wrong with him. So we had to give him to the animal shelter. It was really awful, but he had become so unpredictable (he attacked me when I walked by him one day). He was a dalmation/lab mix so 14 years old was pretty old for him. It was sad but we did what we felt was our only option at the time.

How horrid. I would have taken our lab somewhere else had the vet objected. An autopsy showed a brain tumor, and she was no longer the dog we had raised and loved.

I'm sorry that your family had to deal with that.

 

[nessz79]

How horrid. I would have taken our lab somewhere else had the vet objected. An autopsy showed a brain tumor, and she was no longer the dog we had raised and loved.

I'm sorry that your family had to deal with that.

The 14 year old dog was actually my in-laws', but the dog had become too much for them so we took him over for a few years before this happened.

We had wanted to put him to sleep as it seemed much more humane to us than giving him to an animal shelter. It's not like you can explain to the dog what is going on. I cried my eyes out that day, but still felt it was our only option left.

We still have our own 10 year old dog. Luckily, it's the best dog a family could ask for. If he ever had problems with the kids I would go through more options first, but we've had him since he was a puppy and he has always been incredibly patient with our two boys.

By the way, OP, our current dog is an Australian Shepherd/Lab/Rottie mix (1/2 Australian Shepherd). Ours is not hyper now, although he went through a phase when he was 1-3 years old where he was very head-strong and somewhat hyper. They can be nervous dogs, so be carefuly. Ours is nervous around strangers, but very, very good with the family.

 

[allison443]

But what if something happens to a neighbor or something and it comes out that he had a supposed history of aggressiveness? You never know how people will twist things, you know?

I will just address this legal concern that you raised...at least in the state of New York, which I am familiar with, at this point if your dog bites a neighbor you will be absolutely liable since your dog has this history. They wouldn't be "twisting" things -the facts are what they are. They don't get into the dog's motives when they look at the dog's history. I will also state that any dog bite that leaves scarring on a young child's face is considered a very serious injury and usually results in a substantial settlement or jury award, once liability is established. Do you have a large homeowner's policy and does your insurer know you have a dog?

Good luck with your decision, I know it is a tough situation, and I'm glad your child was okay.

 

[surfergirl602]

it sounds to me like a definite food issue... first thing that comes to mind, is he eating enough? Getting enough water? He needs to understand that when the humans eat, he cannot. Crate him while anyone is eating. Take him out of the equation and see if that works. We have three labs. They all have to eat in their own kennels. When we are eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, they go in their kennels. They are like a free for all when there is food out. They will eat themselves sick, just to make sure they get enough food. It's an instinct thing. We simply deny them the privilege of being with us when we are eating.

 

[surfergirl602]

Great responses--thank you! I was expecting most replies to be, "He bit a child. Put him down. Period."

Previous posters are right...we recently moved and never had these problems before the move. The aggression is only about food; otherwise he is playful. On the previous occasion, I did make him submit by lying on his back, but we still have some alpha dog issues with him. He is a 90 pound Lab/Austrailian Shepard mix and my husband is pretty much the only one in the family who is clearly dominant to him. He usually listens to me, but not always...

I'm going to call the vet and see what he has to say. Thanks everyone for not being judgemental. I knew I could come here for some sound advice.

Moving can also be a cause. They go into instinct survival mode, being out of their element. It can be corrected. Please don't jump the gun.

 

[goofy4tink]

A year ago our dog Bucky (Miniature Daschund) bit my dd. She was 3 years old at the time. She sat her yogurt down and he grabbed it and ran. She ran after him and dove on his back. He also bit her in the face. However, she did have broken skin, had to have plastic surgery and has 2 scars that she will have for her lifetime on her left cheek.

The Humane Society came out the next day and gave him a physical and put him on house arrest for 10 days. This was to determine that he did not have Rabies. After 10 days he was released for house arrest and still lives here with us. As the ER doctor, Plastic Surgeon and pediatrician all agreed - the dog is not vicious but all dogs will be protective of food - once he touched that yogurt, it was officially his.

Arika loves that dog and the first thing she did when she got home from the hospital early the following morning (about 2:00 am) was wrap her arms around him and hug him.

T.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Every single dog I have had has been trained to release everything and anything upon my command. What happens if the dog gets something poisonous??? According to the 'ER doctor, plastic surgeon, and pedi' the dog now 'owns' that poisoned food!!! And shouldn't be expected to give it up..now, you have a dead, or very sick dog!!! Sorry, but a dog needs to release anything when told to. A simple 'drop it' works, well it works after much hard work. As does a stern, loud 'Leave it!!'
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...especially when it comes to dogs!!

I will just address this legal concern that you raised...at least in the state of New York, which I am familiar with, at this point if your dog bites a neighbor you will be absolutely liable since your dog has this history. They wouldn't be "twisting" things -the facts are what they are. They don't get into the dog's motives when they look at the dog's history. I will also state that any dog bite that leaves scarring on a young child's face is considered a very serious injury and usually results in a substantial settlement or jury award, once liability is established. Do you have a large homeowner's policy and does your insurer know you have a dog?

Good luck with your decision, I know it is a tough situation, and I'm glad your child was okay.

Sad story here....many years ago, we had a shepard/collie mix. There is a 24/7 leash law in our town. So, we used to put the dog out on a run, in the back yard each day. No matter how the dog tried, he couldn't get to within 20' of the next door neighbor's yard. He wasn't viscious, he wasn't mean. He would see the kids next door and want to play with them, so would run up and down the length of his run. Well, the little boy next door would come over and tease the dog! He came into our yard, he ran back and forth by the dog run...just out of reach. If he got close enough, the dog would jump up on him..happy that he had 'caught' his 'playmate'. We continually told this kid to stay out of our yard. We would bring the dog in if we saw the boy outside.
Well...one day, this boy was, yet again, running along the run-line. He got a bit closer than he thought, and the dog grabbed for his pantleg. He tore the pants, the kid went screaming to his parents. Next thing you know, we have the police at the house!!! I wanted a fence put up, but my parents were afraid this kid would just go over, or around, the fence. So, they decided to put the dog down!!! They just didn't want to take any chances..they would have felt awful if our dog had broken the skin!
One would think that since this kid kept coming onto our property, it would have meant something, but no....the dog died because this kid just had to continually tease the dog!
So, yes....sometimes you have to do somethiing you really hate to do, even if it's wrong!

 

[cheerforchelsea]

You are so fortunate that the skin was not broken on your child's face. My granddaughter was attacked (I can say bitten because it was more than one bite) by a friend's dog. The dog was sitting in front of an adult being petted at the time then made a sudden un explained lunge for my granddaughter who was sitting about 6-8 feet away watching another adult play WII. She was bitten severely in the face - across cheek requiring 10 stitches, above and below eye, and her lip. It has been 7 months now and she has some scarring especially from the "10 stitch" wound - we won't know until 1 year has elapsed if any kind of scar correction will be necessary...With that being said PLEASE have your dog checked by the vet to be sure there are no underlying health issues and take every precaution necessary as far as any obedience type training. I would not want what happened to her to happen to any other child.