"Other Rumored Lands" @ DHS

[DanBoris]

It says no such thing in the contract. It talks about the industry not Universal, so it would be highest standards for the industry as a whole, by default that is Disney who are seen as setting the gold standard (although the truth is arguable there). But even if we were to only look at Universal, what are these maintenance standards in Harry Potter that are so much superior to any other part of the park anyway? The language so vague as to be meaningless. You could have six people arguing for six different standards. Unless the rides are falling apart I don't think Disney's lawyers could do much of anything with it.
.

He is trying to equate "standards" with the quality of the attraction instead of the maintenance standards. He is basically trying to say that if Universal build a bunch of coasters that were more advanced technology and theming the Hulk, then the contract would require them to update hulk to meet those new "standards". I don't think that is what that section of the contract mean. like you I believe it that it means that the ride must be maintained and kept in good working order.

 

[seascapemvy]

He is trying to equate "standards" with the quality of the attraction instead of the maintenance standards. He is basically trying to say that if Universal build a bunch of coasters that were more advanced technology and theming the Hulk, then the contract would require them to update hulk to meet those new "standards". I don't think that is what that section of the contract mean. like you I believe it that it means that the ride must be maintained and kept in good working order.

But that is what Universal is doing.

 

[Eoghann]

But that is what Universal is doing.

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[rteetz]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Bingo! Learned that in AP Stats this year lol.

 

[DanBoris]

But that is what Universal is doing.

So there are two possibilities:

1. Universal is doing it because they have to, thus they seem to be ok with that clause in the contract thus they will not loose the contract.
2. Universal is only doing it because they want to not because it's in the contact thus they will not loose the contract.

So either way your assertion that they will loose the contract over this point is clearly incorrect. They are not going to spend all this money to updates the rides if they don't plan to stay in the contract long term.

 

[Spacedog1975]

What would Universal stand to benefit from allowing their attractions to deteriorate or age?

I don't think the Marvel contract is especially unique in theme park terms. They may be paying substantially less than they would pay today, but the perpetuality is pretty typical, I have to imagine.

Disney wasn't going to build an Indiana Jones attraction or a Star Wars attraction (pre-acquisition) without perpetuity. Universal certainly has perpetuity when it comes to Potter, Simpsons, and other non-Universal properties in their parks.

The same thing happens with movie deals. So long as any given studio continues making films based on a property they license, the license continues. This is why it was better for Sony to rush weaker Spider-man movies than to spend years planning an excellent one.

 

[DanBoris]

What would Universal stand to benefit from allowing their attractions to deteriorate or age?

I don't think the Marvel contract is especially unique in theme park terms. They may be paying substantially less than they would pay today, but the perpetuality is pretty typical, I have to imagine.

Disney wasn't going to build an Indiana Jones attraction or a Star Wars attraction (pre-acquisition) without perpetuity. Universal certainly has perpetuity when it comes to Potter, Simpsons, and other non-Universal properties in their parks.

The same thing happens with movie deals. So long as any given studio continues making films based on a property they license, the license continues. This is why it was better for Sony to rush weaker Spider-man movies than to spend years planning an excellent one.

The Harry Potter contract is not perpetual. The initial term expires 2019 and then they have the option to renew for up to two more 5 year terms.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312507178559/dex1041.htm

 

[rteetz]

The Harry Potter contract is not perpetual. The initial term expires 2019 and then they have the option to renew for up to two more 5 year terms.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312507178559/dex1041.htm

I thought the only universal/marvel contract that expires was the Japan one? I had always heard and saw that the Orlando one does not have an expiration date.

 

[DanBoris]

I thought the only universal/marvel contract that expires was the Japan one? I had always heard and saw that the Orlando one does not have an expiration date.

Yes, Japan is the only Universal/Marvel contract that expires. This one is for Harry Potter.

 

[Spacedog1975]

The Harry Potter contract is not perpetual. The initial term expires 2019 and then they have the option to renew for up to two more 5 year terms.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312507178559/dex1041.htm

I'm surprised that there isn't language in the contract about future renewals/right of first refusal, etc.

 

[seascapemvy]

The Harry Potter contract is not perpetual. The initial term expires 2019 and then they have the option to renew for up to two more 5 year terms.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312507178559/dex1041.htm

If you look on page 5 it describes the resort and specifically does not limit it like the Marvel contract does. Why? If it makes no difference why include it? Answer because it it important.

 

[Eoghann]

Universal are improving their park because they want more people to visit it.

If you look on page 5 it describes the resort and specifically does not limit it like the Marvel contract does. Why? If it makes no difference why include it? Answer because it it important.

Because the park didn't exist when the Marvel contract was signed! You don't need to describe something that exists you just reference it. If it doesn't exist you give a description of what it is anticipated to be. I do this all the time issuing teaming agreements and subcontracts.

If we were to accept your interpretation of the Marvel agreement, Universal would be unable to close the Hard Rock Cafe without renegotiating their license. That's absurd.

 

[seascapemvy]

Universal are improving their park because they want more people to visit it.


Because the park didn't exist when the Marvel contract was signed! You don't need to describe something that exists you just reference it. If it doesn't exist you give a description of what it is anticipated to be. I do this all the time issuing teaming agreements and subcontracts.

If we were to accept your interpretation of the Marvel agreement, Universal would be unable to close the Hard Rock Cafe without renegotiating their license. That's absurd.

No universal can end a license when they want just like they can decide when to give up Marvel. However to keep Marvel they have to live by their obligations in the contract. It is air tight as everyone here arees. If they follow it to the letter there is nothing Disney can do about it. Also it has been well documented that Universal and Marvel have gone ovet everything that is being done and will be done with Marvel at Universal. Therefore you can be sure what is being done is done with the full understanding and approval of Disney. Universal did not just decide to remove all the Hulk tracks and put in new ones without Marvel approval and support. Just like they did with Spiderman.

 

[Eoghann]

No universal can end a license when they want just like they can decide when to give up Marvel. However to keep Marvel they have to live by their obligations in the contract. It is air tight as everyone here arees. If they follow it to the letter there is nothing Disney can do about it. Also it has been well documented that Universal and Marvel have gone ovet everything that is being done and will be done with Marvel at Universal. Therefore you can be sure what is being done is done with the full understanding and approval of Disney. Universal did not just decide to remove all the Hulk tracks and put in new ones without Marvel approval and support. Just like they did with Spiderman.

1) I've yet to see anyone agree with you on the "air tight" nature of the contract. I've pointed out numerous places where it is open to interpretation.
2) You've just completely changed your argument... again.
3) I'm done. Ignored.

 

[rteetz]

No universal can end a license when they want just like they can decide when to give up Marvel. However to keep Marvel they have to live by their obligations in the contract. It is air tight as everyone here arees. If they follow it to the letter there is nothing Disney can do about it. Also it has been well documented that Universal and Marvel have gone ovet everything that is being done and will be done with Marvel at Universal. Therefore you can be sure what is being done is done with the full understanding and approval of Disney. Universal did not just decide to remove all the Hulk tracks and put in new ones without Marvel approval and support. Just like they did with Spiderman.

Show me proof. You have done nothing to prove anything that you state as fast is.

 

[DanBoris]

It is why an updated agreement is needed if Universal builds a third gate. The negotiations were for a 2 gate park with Marvel playing an extremely large part of the resort. Now if there is to be a third gate with more IP Marvel would have the right to demand more compensation or get out of the contract.

If that part of the contract legally binds Unviersal to two gates, does it also bind them to "approximately $3 billion."? If that section of the contract is legally binding then how do they determine what "approximately $3 billion" is?

 

[TT77]

Here we go again.

No. Nope. No way. Uh-uh. Negative. No siree. It's not happening. Move along, nothing to see here. Just no.

I say thee nay!

The Marvel rights are tied up and Universal makes too much money currently to part with them. The Kevin Feige move was an office politics things because of clashes between him and Perlmutter. It had nothing to do with the parks. Distribution deals expire all the time, that also has nothing to do with the parks.

HAHA Ok Dude you believe what you want

 

[TT77]

Uh no...

Kevin feige reporting to Horn doesn't mean anything for them getting the theme park rights.

Nor does the Spielberg distribution deal.

The contract for the theme park rights is out there and would likely be a billion dollar deal if done which neither company is currently interested in. WDW is doing just fine without marvel. Universal is currently redoing their Hulk coaster, if they were getting rid of marvel they wouldn't be doing that.

uh no

 

[rteetz]

uh no

Proof?

 

[TT77]

Proof?

no offence, but you don't have any kind of proof, you just have angry internet fan theories along the same lines as people on-line believing Luke Skywalker was Kylo Ren a few months ago... which really didn't make any kind of sense but whole lot of people seemed to want to believe anyway... So if keep that in mind and just you look at the Marvel thing logically, it all kind of falls into place...

First off Disney owns "all" the Marvel characters, so why would they build themed lands in their parks for just the Avengers/MCU characters? The answer is they won't... and they haven't, but they can't build a themed land for all the Marvel characters until they get all the Marvel Movies into a single story continuity, which they seem to be in the process of doing

Disney/Marvel's "Captain America Civil War", which comes out May 6th, will introduce the new Spiderman that will also be appearing in Sony's stand alone films, and a then a few weeks later on May 27th Fox's "X-men Apocalypse" will be released which will probably be the end of the current X-men story line... so it sounds like a re-boot of X-men is coming up real soon

Once Disney solves the problem of the story continuity and gets the Disney/Sony/Fox film in sync, they are also making it more and more difficult and expensive for Universal to do anything with Marvel in Orlando. At a certain point they only way for Universal to make any money on the theme park rights to Marvel is buy selling those theme park rights to Disney, and the distribution deal for DreamWorks probably figures into that, because Disney is "letting it expire". Comcast/Universal and the Walt Disney Company don't really care how they make money, as long as the keep making money and not losing it.

So step one is getting all the movies in sync, and when Kevin Feigie got moved to Walt Disney Films, he also stopped producing/supervising Marvel Television to focus completely on the films, and I'm assuming that means not just the "Disney/Marvel" produced films but also the "Sony" Spiderman, and probably the "20th Century Fox" films as well. Then not long after that it was Announced that Joe Rohde would head up Marvel Theme park attractions, but the movies are going dictate whatever they do in the parks, so we're going to have to wait and see what happens with Civil War and X-men Apocalypse this May