OT: We have yet another confrontation with the school

[jeepgirl30]

oops, Conference! Yea right.

My DD is in 2nd grade. Her bday is June so she went to Kgarten at 5. She is one of the youngest in her whole grade.

Every year around december the teachers recommend holding her back. I have researched and find lots of research showing this is not always the best. I have not found any showing it benefits the kids and have asked for those. The teachers get mad and say only their experience shows the positive.

Last year we had a big conference in march where it was me against the principal (who said not one word), the school guidance councilor, the reading specialist, the teacher and the psychologist. DH was unable to attend. I had no idea walking into that meeting it would be with anyone other than the teacher. They came out and said it was an age thing and I got very upset. I said if you wanted her to be 6 when she started why is that not the rule? They said the state law is 5 but they prefer 6. I snapped and said how the heck is a first time parent supposed to know this???

At my first conference with the 2nd grade teacher he said her skills were a bit behind but she was a very sweet student and showed a lot of potential (same thing 1st grade said at the start). He said he was actually surprised to hear it had been recommended to hold her back and he would not have guessed that at all.

Well I was called a couple weeks ago and asked to come in and meet with everyone again. Her progress is not as fast as they wanted to see.

Her tests scores are mixed. One day she came home with 2 math tests, very similar. One she got an 87%, the other a 46%. The 87% was correct but she had not completed it, it was timed. Accuracy was darn close to 100. The other she had added instead of subtracted (it was mixed but she did the same on all).

She has the ability but she is SLOW. I mean speed wise. She does not do anything fast. If you get stressed and yell she just shuts down. She took 5 min the other night to put on socks.

Almost all her work is timed now, reading, math, etc. She is doing so much better on reading but just isn't fast enough. She gets 90-100 on every spelling test.

She has extra work we do every night at home. We read a story and then the next day she takes a test retelling it, she does bad on this but 24 hrs later I couldn't remember the story either.

I'm a working mom so I do not have as much time to work with her as I'd like. But I'm upset because I know they are going to want to hold her back and I don't think it is best for her. I feel like they have been targeting her from day one. In Kgarten it was her age, in 1st she was not reading on level and her age, in 2nd its her age and she isn't fast enough.

Is there anywhere I can go to find out pa state requirements are for her level?

I just do not know what to do. I don't want to force her moving on if she is not ready but she shows ability. I am also pushing the school to test for all learning disabilities. They showed me one series of tests where on ALL she scored avg or above the 1st half and below avg the second half. I said am i the only one that recognizes the pattern here??? Yep. They were all like huh, thats interesting.

 

[Drewsmommybear]

Most states put their requirements on the state board of ed webpage. In West Virginia, they are called CSO's. Try looking there first. Or you could ask the teacher or principal. For my school, it is manditory to pass them out at the beginning of the year.

I am really sorry for you and your daughter. Just know that it is hard for teachers to tell people these things and they don't go about it lightly. In 30 minutes, I'm about to sit in on a meeting where retention will be discussed. It's not easy for anyone, but there are ways to measure whether or not you daughter would be a good candidate for retention. One is called the Light's Retention Scale. I don't know if it is used by your district or not.

 

[connorlevismom]

Sometimes it is best to trust the teachers. I know, she is your baby and your first response is to be protective of her. It is only a natural thing. However, if several people in the school have told you this now, you might need to listen to them. They are not doing this to make you feel bad or target your daughter. I believe they are doing this to help her. Listen, I am VERY hard on teachers and almost always defend the parents when it comes to situations with them. But this seem different to me and you should consider holding her back. If she needs it, she needs it and it will only benefit her.

In the end, she will probably thank you for it. I am in August baby and went to school just after I turned 5. I did not mind at first, but I really minded towards middle and high school and beyond. All my friends were older than I was and were able to do things way before I could because of it.

Kristine

 

[KirstenB]

Our dd who's now in 4th grade is ADD. Each year beginning with K, teachers repeatedly remarked on her inattentativeness. She was never a behavior problem, and always made A/B's, so she flew under the radar for the most part.

In 3rd grade, school starts getting really hard here in Va. Her 3rd grade teachers really stayed on me about the whole "attention" thing. Anyway, I took her to a child psychologist who had her teachers and us fill out a long questionnaire about dd. She easily met the ADD criteria She takes meds now, which have helped her focus in school.

I guess I'm trying to say it sounds like a pattern with your dd's teachers remarking on the same issues each year, including retention. I'm not saying they're correct, but they're each saying the same thing. Do you think she may have an attention or focus issue? When you said how slow she was to complete routine tasks, it reminded me of our dd. Did they already do all testing for learning disabilities?

 

[Jacksmom99]

OP: you are correct, there is no solid evidence that retension works. I am a Special Education teacher and a parent of an 8 and 5 year old. I would ONLY consider retaining a child who is very socially immature. Only you can decide if it's right for your child. Request an evaluation. If she is not makeing "effective" progress in the curriculum, and that's what it sounds like the teachers are saying, then she needs to be tested to try and identify the areas of difficulty. It sound like your daughter may be a slow processor. If that is the case, then it would not make any difference if she repeated the grade or not, she is not going to process faster. Ask for an evaluation, the school has to provide it. Make sure they test cognitive (how she learns), academic (what she know) as well as OT (for motor skills) and speech and language (for memory and processing of language). The school must respond to this request in certain amount of time (which I don't know off the top of my head). PM me if you need anything else. By the way, you NEVER have to attend a meeting when your "ambushed" like that. Respectfully request a reconvene because you would feel more comfortable to have someone with you. Also, ask ahead who will attend the meetings so you can decide if you need to have someone with you or not. Don't let the school try to bully or intimidate you! Listen to their POV, but provide yours as well. One can not form a complete picture of a child without hearing from all parties.

Good Luck,
Kim

 

[bumbershoot]

"Her bday is June so she went to Kgarten at 5. She is one of the youngest in her whole grade."

That is SO odd. All of the June b'day kids in my grade were among the OLDEST. They started taking kids with Sept b'days..Sept and Oct were the youngest. I'm an October, and I was the second youngest in my grade.

I am SO glad that I wasn't a June younger...I was behind socially enough with an Oct b'day!


One of my brothers was socially behind in kindergarten. He's a Sept birthday (as are all of my half-sibs) but was more shy and more bullied than the other sibs. Because of that, they recommended holding him back, and my stepmom and dad did. I think it was a great decision. It was great for him going from the youngest to the oldest, and that bonus was even better as he got to driving age. It really boosted his "esteem" and not in a false way, but because he WAS further ahead than those younger than him, but behind those who were older.

If your daughter would be OK with repeating a grade, I'd say let her. One could see the odd results on the tests being because of a learning disability, but one could also see it as having a 1st grader's attention span while doing 2nd grade work. 2nd grade would be easier to repeat than 3rd. 3rd easier to repeat than 4th. etc. I'd really think about it...it really helped my brother, and he was "older" in his grade that it seems your girl is.


The age/startschool thing is so confusing. I'm glad I'll be homeschooling and don't have to figure it all out! to those who do have to figure it out!

 

[RumpleMom]

Hope I can help here. Having a June birthday and going to K at five is not young for a girl. I would be more concerned for a boy with a Aug-Sept birthday.

What kind of support is your school district offering? There are so many ways to help a child that repeating a grade isn't used very often after first grade. Is she going to the reading specialist? Learning support teacher? I would look into this route before considering repeating a grade, especially for a girl. Is there a learning support aide available to make sure she is bringing home her daily assignments?

Don't be intimidated by all the school personnel at your conference. They are required to be there. You and her father know your daughter the best.

You can ask your child's teacher to provide you with a written list of skills that are expected to be mastered by the end of second grade. See for yourself how your child is coming along. Pay close attention to her standardized testing scores for the Spring.

Ask if there is a certified teacher who you can hire to tutor your child. It won't be cheap, but I have tutored kids and it has made a lot of difference, especially over the summer, so they don't forget what they worked hard to learn.

I think the first thing is to stop thinking of her as young for her grade. She may be young in comparison to the other kids, but she really isn't young for her grade. It is fine to make her feel responsible for her learning and have expectations that she will succeed. Second grade is a grade that requires a lot more than first grade. The teacher expects individual work habits with longer lessons.

I really like the books written by Dr. John Rosemond. He has a very down to earth, practical way of writing.

Best wishes

 

[scammermom]

I have a 4th grader, we'll call her "the little engine that could". She is also one of the younger students in her grade. She is very slow getting her work done and especially in K and 1st, this was about the time retention was also suggested. Lack of confidence is a big part of the problem as well as immaturity. I usually received a phone call around Feb asking if this was the same child since "the light seemed to have gone on". It takes half the school year to really get in gear.
From what I've heard/read, the differences seemed to disappear around 3rd grade and most of the kids are on a similiar path.

By the way, my little engine is now in the upper half of the class.

The teachers need to bring up the retention possibility so you're not blindsided in June and they don't want to let her go to the next grade. Keep working with her and find out if outside help or additional tutoring is available.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

 

[_queenie_]

Hope I can help here. Having a June birthday and going to K at five is not young for a girl. I would be more concerned for a boy with a Aug-Sept birthday.

I agree.

My DS17 has a Jan b-day and he's one of the oldest (when you don't count the kids who were kept back), and though my DD13 with a July b-day and is one of the younger ones, she's far from earning the title of "youngest". Our state says that you have to be 5 by October 1 to start Kindergarten, when is your states cut-off? I wouldn't reccomend holding your DD back, if she's slow at even putting on socks who says she's going to get any faster just because the work is easier?

Wish you the best of luck!

 

[adoptionmomma4]

I have been in your exact situation. My DD (who was adopted at 5) was put in the KG by her bio family in August of the year she turned 5 (she was actually 4 for a few weeks of KG). DD was the youngest in her class for k-3 grade. She was having a lot of trouble with focusing and reading. The only thing she was really on the same level with her peers would have been socialization She had a lot of the same issues it sounds like your DD has. She was and still is very slow at everything related to school (any activity she likes she can do at warp speed! LOL). We put her in reading tutoring in school, sought a reading doctor for extra help and enrolled her in reading therapy at the Ohio State University and vision therapy. She was tested for EVERYTHING under the sun including processing disorders both visual and auditory.

During her 3rd grade year of school I was asked to attend a meeting just like the one you attended. It felt like me against the school. I actually felt like I was being fed to the sharks. I burst into tears as soon as I started to talk. It was awful!!! We decided to hold her back a year based on many factors. The main reason was I thought that she would struggle the farther along in school she got. I thought it would be a lot easier to repeat in a younger grade than in middle school for instance. We were also moving to a new home that summer and she would be going to a new school. I thought this was the perfect time to retain her since none of the kids would know she was repeating the same grade.

Fast forward to the following year….. Holding her back was awesome. She did phenomenal. For the first time in her life she was right on track with her peers and was testing at grade level. It was an amazing thing to see her so confident in her abilities. The school was another story however and we are currently home schooling. I feel confident that next year when she goes onto intermediate school she will be right where she needs to be academically, socially and mentally. In my opinion those things could not be said if we had not held her back and allowed her to succeed. She went from being the youngest to one of the oldest in her class and that did wonders for her self-esteem.

Good luck with whatever you decided. Please feel free to PM me if you want more information.

I also wanted to add that we included DD in the decision to hold her back and she agreed (and still does) that repeating 3rd grade was the best thing for her.

 

[becca011906]

I'd say that unless she's failing stuff, struggling, ect ??? what gives??? I have a june b-day girly who started when she was 5 and 2 months she's not had to much trouble just a little but i'm a SAHM who can work with her 1-2 hours after school, all weekend and on breaks if we wanted to. She was one of the best kids academically in preschool (she was in pre K for 2 years too) but didn't adjust to well to k5 ... She's only a little behind and not by much at all... there have been NO talk of holding her back at all...

I was a late July baby so started when I was 5 and 1 month I didn't ever had troulbe that i remember i did have issue when i was in 2-3 grade with having no friends but it was never picked up on... in 5th grade i had social issues as well b/c my parents devoriced... in middle school and high school i had no issues with all my friends being older then me... heck even now i dont' have a single friend my age or younger then me... then again i'm only 24 and have kids ages 8,5,3 not many 24 year olds have to much in commen with me! LOL my Best friend is 36 so oh well.
now i also have my youngest who has a LATE aug. b-day currently the cut off for our school system is Aug. 1 so she will have to wait till she is 5 years and 11 1/2 months old to start K5 unless the school changes between now and then. She is 110% differant then her sister. She has a speech delay, and sees a speech theripist 1 time a week and works with me on 5 days a week on it but i'm still happy as pie to have her wait till she's amost 6 to start school.
Each child is so differant but really do these teachers really know what's best or not... only you can make that choice for her...

 

[sl_underwood]

All schools seem to worry about these days are test scores, maybe thats why they want to hold your dd back. If she is held back, the work will not challenging at all, her test scores will be way higher. And thats the bottom line for schools, test scores matter, students dont. I certainly wouldnt be one for trusting the teachers. Trust your insticts. Who is the parent, you or them?

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

I kind of question why you didn't hold her back in kgarden the first time they suggested it... it would have been the easiest time to do it, and if they felt it was best for her, than so be it. Anyway, can't do anything about that now... Has anyone ever suggested getting her classified? They take her out of certain classes where she needs the most help, and she will learn at her own pace. No more timed tests and such. I was classified when I was small because I too was one of the youngest children in my class (should have been held back just like your little one, but wasn't). Personally, I hated it, made me feel like I was stupid slow, and everything else, but then again, I didn't have the best parenting. They pretty much made me feel that way, and put me in it because they didn't want to do the extra work with me themselves. If you explain it to your child in a positive way, that this will be helpful to her, she gets it done, and then she goes back into regular classes with her friends, maybe she will go for it. But please please please do NOT force her to do anything she doesn't want to. I was put into it in second grade, and didn't like it that much (had one really really mean teacher), but was OK with it. It wasn't until maybe 7th or 8th grade that I really resented it. Self esteem is the most important thing in anyones life, so you as a mother need to figure out if this will give her more, or less. Sorry if I didn't help.... Just trying to give you another idea.

 

[tzolkin]

i don't really see where the age should really make a difference. all kids are different. i find it odd that different areas have different suggested ages for starting school. in my dd's kindergarten class there were several oct birthdays. at least 3 kids turned 5 and a few turned 6.

OP said that the child has the ability to do the work, but does not perform well under a time constraint. this would probably be the best thing to work on. maybe with things that are not school/academic related. my oldest just has a personality that she gets easily distracted and is slow, especially when getting ready or cleaning her room. we've tried to play games to keep her actively involved and speed up her pace without getting her stressed out (she cries VERY easily).

my brother was held back in 1st grade, but this was my parent's choice not demanded by the teachers or the school. he performed relatively well (he wasnt failing), but he really could not fully grasp reading. he did have some social issues in school, but that was because of his size. he was extremely tall for his age (which may have been an issue even if he had not been held back, but was more obvious when he was in class with younger kids.) he was later homeschooled and when he re-entered public school in HS he was skipped ahead to where he should have been. he graduated top 3 in his class and did very well in college.

i think you know your child, and you know what would be best for her. don't refuse to hold her back because you are ashamed of it (not saying that you are, but this is a common feeling...), but don't let her be held back if you really don't think it would benefit her.

 

[Rylee]

Before you make any decisions...

You need to have your daughter tested. Put your request in writing and address it to the Committee for Special Ed, they will have 30 days in which to do so. (If it is not in writing, she may keep getting bumped further down the list, as there are many children in need of testing and special services.)

If it is proven your daughter has a true learning disability, holding the child back is usually not recommended. The school will be required to find a program fitted to how your child learns best. She would have an IEP, which will allow her extra time to complete work/test and any other modifications she needs, (can have test read to her, can have someone write her answers or she can type them, can have a quiet place for testing, etc.)

If she doesn't have a learning disability, I would consider having her repeat the grade. She has a lot of years ahead of her and honestly think about how she will feel if she continuously has to struggle, just to keep up. Most children want to do well in school, how will she feel about school and herself, if she always gives it her all, only to feel it is never good enough? Another year to grow, develop, mature, etc., might be all she needs to make a world of difference of how see'll view education and herself as a student.

 

[annie1995]

I know of the struggle that you are going through. My oldest DS had very similar issues from Kindergarten thru 2nd grade, and he too was the youngest in his class. It was in 2nd grade where we finally decided it would be best to hold him back. It was a very rough decision to make, but looking back on it today, we only see the positives from it. He was never "scarred or teased" because of it. I honestly don't think many even knew he stayed back. He "fits" in more with his peers now better then ever before. We never noticed the difference until school started back up, and he was with the new group of 2nd graders and we were like Wow, he actually fits here. Academically, it was of little help. Did he improve at all? Yes, alittle. It wasn't anything light flashing drastic about it though. I look at him today in 6th grade and he blends in so well with his peers, and then I look at the 7th graders, the grade he would have been in, I just see that it was for the best, and I'm so very thankful I made the decision I did. Good Luck with what ever you decide.

 

[Aristomommy]

I also suggest that you do all the testing first before making a decision. I have a DD with a Nov. birthday and she started KG at 4 when the cut off was Aug 30th. She passed all the readiness tests without difficulty and was socially and physically mature. But as soon as there are issues at school (not often, but there have been 2-3 issues) the first comment is about her age. When the same situation occurs with a Jan. or March birthday child, the age thing is not brought up.

OP: do you think this has anything to do with state achievement tests? Many school will encourage holding back so their score will be boosted this way. Also, some children do not do well with timed tests. DD used to get very nervous and freeze although she would know the material. Good think is you still have time to make a decision. Repeating the grade sound like an easy answer to the school instead of looking further into the issue.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Dd is in first grade. Her birthday is in July and we have a September first cutoff.

In K her teacher told us... she's doing just fine...she's no rocket scientist, but right on grade level. She did have the dawdling thing down though. Her K teacher needed to give her 5 extra minutes to do pretty much anything, including packing up at the end of the day.

This year in first her teacher mentioned to us during the first conference that it takes dd a bit longer to do stuff...including packing up. When I shared how she got extra time the year before I was told that she gets NO extra time this year...just some reminding!

Academically she's doing fine. The reason I'm posting is that dd's teacher called me today to discuss her reading progress. Dd is having problems identifying recognizable word chunks (get in getting, etc.) that would help her decode an unknown word. We actually talked briefly about this in the past but her teacher feels that if we tackle this head on now... it will benefit dd in the long run. Dd is going to start spending some time each week w/ the reading specialist.

THIS is what I feel a school should do. Are they giving your dd any extra assistance or just throwing her to the wolves? Dh and I both work outside the home and we have a 2yo ds so there isn't a lot of time here either. Dh and I divide and conquer quite often...he's taking her to swimming lessons tonight and they are practicing spelling on the way there and back!

I would definitely ask what kind of assistance they have for her IN SCHOOL before they start wanting to keep her back. I'm a former educator (elem ed) and even though I've BTDT, I still would be hesitant to hold my child back just because they didn't do their work as quickly as the others. Oh and the math test that was scored low because your dd was confused? I would rewrite the test and have her take it over. In second grade the instructions should have been given VERY CLEARLY...not just here, take this test.

FWIW, dd took her very first "test" last week when they started spelling. Even then they are only given four words that they must know, along w/ three word patterns. The word patterns could be -at, -ash, -ad. The students are responsible to know the patterns and then they could be asked to spell any six words using those patterns (mat, rat, rash, mash, sad, bat...etc.). She's never had a test in any other subject. They are evaluated, sure...but no formal "tests."

Dd attends our local elementary school and I'm THRILLED w/ the program there. Very student centered...maybe you should move to PA?

 

[Minniemouse07]

Duplicate Post

 

[tmatthews]

Here's something to think about ..... I have a DD16 who is a late June baby. Never once did holding her back enter my mind until HIGH SCHOOL! She did great (always honors in grade school) Come high school I see such a difference in maturity! One or even two years younger than some in her class! It makes a big difference!

If the school thought it was enough to call you in and meet w/ teacher and principal I would seriously consider what they are saying.

PS-I am a school teacher, too with a DS4 also born in June...he is NOT starting kindergarten on time!