OT: Spirited Children

[Erin13178]

Do any of you have spirited children? Or difficult children?

I love my dd (almost 4) to death, but man she is soooo hard headed. She loves to argue with me, talk back, and do what she wants. Now all that being said, I don't let her get away with it. I do timeouts along with taking things away. And as last resort (which this works with her) I will give her a swat on the butt.

I've talked to many friends who have children this age, and they say yes it's the age, and yes my dd is strong willed.

If you have/had a child like this, will you please share any thoughts, tips, suggestions, etc?

BTW I am a single Mom so I'm doing this on my own and really want to do the right things.

 

[noodleknitter]

I have one who I consider to be in that group. Luckily we'd had many a client with the same issues!

Start teaching her to take responsibility for herself and her actions while she is little. This means being absolutely concrete, and using the same language all of the time in dealing with it. And, follow through with all discipline. I know this is super hard for a single mom. It is wearying to say the least.

 

[Erin13178]

I have one who I consider to be in that group. Luckily we'd had many a client with the same issues!

Start teaching her to take responsibility for herself and her actions while she is little. This means being absolutely concrete, and using the same language all of the time in dealing with it. And, follow through with all discipline. I know this is super hard for a single mom. It is wearying to say the least.

Thank you for responding. I try, try, try to be very consistent with her. I try to keep everything the same, let her totally know her limits, etc.

Basically my almost 4 year old is a DRAMA QUEEN!

She will sit there and tell you she can turn the tears on an off. Ahhhh but it doesn't make the screaming fits any easier, ya know!

Anyway thank you!

 

[lovinpoohbear]

I'm sorry, I don't have any tips but would like you to know that you are not alone!! My ds 4 is going through this, when he was two, his behavior was perfect at all times, I thought for sure I had missed the terrible 2's, I am now having the terrible 4's, lol.
I am sure it is a stage, and it will pass.

 

[Erin13178]

I'm sorry, I don't have any tips but would like you to know that you are not alone!! My ds 4 is going through this, when he was two, his behavior was perfect at all times, I thought for sure I had missed the terrible 2's, I am now having the terrible 4's, lol.
I am sure it is a stage, and it will pass.

Thank you for letting me know I'm not alone.

It's also hard for me cause my Mom always let's me know I was the perfect child. Well when she watches my dd, ummmm she's so not the perfect child. My Mom has a hard time with her. It's just hard all around.

But thank you for feeling my pain, lol.

 

[2Kds2K9]

I have her twin! Although, mine is now 12 going on 18. ARGH.

My DD can get projectile tears going in a split second and turn them off just as fast. I loved the fact that she was strong willed, but just needed to direct that in a more postive way.

My advice is to be stead-fast and consistant. What you say goes, no matter what. If you tell her she will lose a privilege, then make sure it's gone. You are the parent and not her "friend". Yes, it's hard when the water works get going, but you want to have a child who is thoughtful and kind.

My DD is awsome now. We still go toe-to-toe at times, but she knows what the rules are and that I will punish in a heartbeat. She has lost time with friends and I keep reminding her that I'm her "chariot" to most of her play dates and functions. As I said, she's 12 now, but is a straight A student and an awsome athelete. That passion that she had as a child, is now directed in a positive manner.

And to think that we used to refer to her as the poster child for birth control!

Enjoy your spirited DD. I do mine!

Leigh

 

[RumpleMom]

I liked a book called The Difficult Child. I read it three times, all at different stages and it was very useful.

Also I turn to John Rosemond's books too. He's very down to earth with his help.

 

[perkinsrose]

How about rewarding good behavior? I have used time-out with a timer and taking away things for a time period(privledges/toys/whatever is important to them that would make an impact). When we've gone throught those sassy/talking back periods, I've used a sticker chart on the fridge where they had to earn a sticker for a respectful day. After so many (5 or 10) respectful days, they'd get a reward of some sort.

 

[cheap traveler]

I have had the exact same problem with my DD now 4 1/2. I too am a single mom of a 2 and a 4 1/2 year old - both girls. My 4 year old was soooo easy as a baby, never even cried. She is making up for it now. Through very consistent punishments over the last year, we are finally falling into a nice easy life. For example, if she cries about bed time, she knows she will instantly lose 1 bed time story. She has only lost it 3 times in the last 4 months. She also knows that I will not help her do anything or solve any problems for her if she cries, and she will have an instant time out for any violent behavior (she has inhereted that from her father's side). So over the last year or so her behavior has improved dramatically. Just keep your cool and she will come through this a wonderful little girl. Mine still loves to mouth off and try to bully her sister, but we are getting there

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Yep, I've got one, and I'm a single parent too. She'll be 5 in a little over a month. She's stubborn, obstinate, strong-willed, spirited, and so on and so forth. Pick your favorite adjective. Time outs just haven't worked at all.

Giving her choices within a certain framework helps head off some battles, e.g. "do you want the pink skirt or the yellow skirt?" instead of just "it's time to get dressed." or "here, wear this." Making her feel like she has some say in what happens gives her ownership over the outcome.

I used to take away favorite activities or toys as punishment, but I found I had a lot better success simply turning the wording around. Instead of losing something for bad behavior, she earns it for good behavior. E.g. She loves playing dress up with her princess dresses. I used to tell her she wasn't allowed to play dress up if she had a bad day at school. Now I tell her if she has a good day, she can play dress up. Same result, different wording and it's made a world of difference.

We set up a sticker chart with the 3 behaviors we needed her to work on the most: listening and following directions, not yelling, and using gentle touches. She gets to pick one favorite activity each night if she has a good day (examples: dress up, 1/2 hour on computer, 1/2 hour of a DVD). She also can earn extra rewards for extended periods of good behavior, i.e. 5 good days. This could be ordering a pizza for dinner or going to McDonalds, or getting a special surprise of some sort like a new book or getting a movie from the library. I also have some Disney DVDs in the closet to pull out for a really special reward. I will order several from the Disney Movie Club when they are offering 50% or 60% off if you buy one at regular price. I usually save them for birthday and Christmas gifts, but occasionally will pull one out as a reward.

Her behavior has made drastic improvements in the past 9 months. I'm not sure how much is due to the chart/rewards system and how much to simply getting older and maturing some.

Also, I do occasionally give her a swat on the behind. It's a last resort when she just isn't listening at all.

 

[noodleknitter]

Thank you for responding. I try, try, try to be very consistent with her. I try to keep everything the same, let her totally know her limits, etc.

Basically my almost 4 year old is a DRAMA QUEEN!

She will sit there and tell you she can turn the tears on an off. Ahhhh but it doesn't make the screaming fits any easier, ya know!

Anyway thank you!

I think for someone doing it alone, 4 year old spirited children are the hardest! They are harder than 2's, imo.

There is that feeling that if you don't get it right, and nipped in the butt now, what am I going to do?! Do you have a support group, good girlfriends, family about? (Or, I guess the dad!) If so, may I suggest that you ask for some respite to get your bearings on occasion. And really take care of yourself during that time.

This is the program we used in residential treatment. (Not that I imagine your child to be that out of control!!!!) It deals with behaviors/thought processes, and how to change them.http://www.truthought.com/store/catalog.asp?item=31#

I can't find any of the lists right now, but will hunt them down, if you would like that information.

Take care! And, know that you are not alone!

 

[AKBAFB]

You're definitely not alone and don't blame yourself (or let your mom blame you) for your daughter's behavior. I agree with the other posters that it's very important to be consistent and follow through with any punishments, don't just threaten them. John Rosemond has good advice for parents in this situation.

Just remember that although it seems difficult now, if you establish yourself in the parental role of being the one who makes the rules and enforces the rules and follows through consistently with them all the time now, and her role as a kid is to follow the rules, you will save yourself some headaches in the future. It's pretty sad to see parents who thought they were being nice to their kids, or just took the easy way out when the kids were young and now that the kids are teenagers and getting into much worse stuff than three year olds do, the parents want to try to take control and start making the kids follow the rules.

 

[bkreitzel]

All I can tell you is to check out this book - Aaron's Way, Journey of a Strong willed child.

It LITERALLY changed the way I look at/interact with my DD. It was recommended to me by someone who also had that AH HAH! after reading it and we just keep passing it on!

The cool part is, Aaron has grown up, and HIS perspective is also included. I can't recommend it enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Aarons-Way-Journey-Strong-Willed-Child/dp/0802443494

Looks like I can't post the link...I just googled Aaron's Way and it pulled it up on Amazon for me.

Good Luck.

 

[Debbie7452]

I have 4 kids and just want to offer encouragement to you Parents/Moms of these strong willed kids. The age of 4 is so hard...but don't give up, no matter how tiring it gets! My kids have a cousin like this...her single Mom got tired and pretty much gave up discipline with her. She is now 10 and things are not so great.

I don't know how single Mom's do it, really but bless you for keeping after it and trying!

 

[perkinsrose]

Parents make their own decisions. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. Since OP asked for suggestions and mentioned you're concerned about doing the right things--just thought I would offer these ideas on spanking.

"Many parents prefer spanking because it's quick and easy, and gets the behavior stopped right away. But children learn through modeling, and though spanking does show the child that you disapprove of this behavior, it does not teach what is right behavior." (from link below)

Ideas on "spare the rod spoil the child" philosophy from http://www.unhinderedliving.com/discipline.html

Some people include spanking as part of their religious view. The idea of rod is actually a metaphor for teaching or guiding not hitting.
"One final verse which often gives parents trouble is the verse "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him" (Proverbs 13:24). The word "rod" is used in various ways in scripture, and in the original Hebrew there were eight to ten different meanings for the word. The pole that shepherds used to guide their sheep along the road was called a rod. It was not used to hit the sheep, but to guide them as they walked and keep them on the road. This would correspond to the framework we talked about earlier. It is simply a guide. The shepherd also had a large club called a rod which he used to drive away predators, but it never was used to hit the sheep. God also spoke of the "rod of my mouth" which he used for discipline also. In short, the rod was any article or method used to guide, teach, or discipline. It did not have to be a physical method, either, or God could not have used his mouth as a rod. "
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http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html
Ten Reasons not to hit your kids
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051114110820.htm
Spanking leads to childhood aggression and anxiety

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http://www.nospank.net/n-j31.htm
The consequences of spanking
Study suggests that corporal punishment may have life-altering side effects

" 'Suppose there are two medicines that work, but one has harmful side effects that don't show up for 10 or 20 years. Even if one dose has only a tiny chance of an adverse effect, I think parents would want to avoid that risk. That's the way they should think about spanking,' says Murray Straus, founder and co-director of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire and the nation's pre-eminent researcher on corporal punishment."



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Most parents condone spanking. Child development research doesn't.

http://www.civitas.org/press_child_development.html

_________________________________________________________

I know plenty people will say," I was spanked and turned out okay". Maybe, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better way. I am a parent (of one strong-willed child!) and one of my degrees is in child development.

 

[sashagiselle]

I have one of those dd5! Its amazing how one child can be so physically, emotionally and mentally draining. I love her to pieces but some days...! What has helped is that we've made her more accountable, for example " Ok by choosing to act this way it you have made the choice not to participate in xyz activity" . Best of luck, I think I may order one of the books that has been recommended here.

 

[leagirl12]

I have her twin! Although, mine is now 12 going on 18. ARGH.

My DD can get projectile tears going in a split second and turn them off just as fast. I loved the fact that she was strong willed, but just needed to direct that in a more postive way.

My advice is to be stead-fast and consistant. What you say goes, no matter what. If you tell her she will lose a privilege, then make sure it's gone. You are the parent and not her "friend". Yes, it's hard when the water works get going, but you want to have a child who is thoughtful and kind.

My DD is awsome now. We still go toe-to-toe at times, but she knows what the rules are and that I will punish in a heartbeat. She has lost time with friends and I keep reminding her that I'm her "chariot" to most of her play dates and functions. As I said, she's 12 now, but is a straight A student and an awsome athelete. That passion that she had as a child, is now directed in a positive manner.

And to think that we used to refer to her as the poster child for birth control!

Enjoy your spirited DD. I do mine!

Leigh

I feel like you just took the words right out of my mouth in regards to my dd9. I just told my best friend at lunch today that God knew what he was doing when he gave me my ds.....God knew I couldn't handle two just like my dd.

Having said that though all the things that drive me crazy with her are things I love about her....when the peer pressure years come I will worry more about my ds than my dd. DD is too strong willed and stubborn to fall into peer pressure....she will have everyone following her path. I just hope we have raised her so that her path is the good one!

I totally agree....enjoy her spiritedness even though it is stressful!

 

[cjjecho9]

I cannot advise you on a daughter, because we do not have one. However, we do have three sons (5yrs, 2yrs and 7 mos.). I think alot of the drama you are experiencing from you daughter is the same that we all experience from our young children. I believe that it comes from the things that they hear and see on television and from other children. Children are so much more "educated" now than when I was a kid. Five year olds can carry on conversations with adults (educated ones at that) and even know more about computers than we do. Our children are not getting to be kids. We as a society are making them grow up too fast. The world is so fast paced now that it even affects our children. This is evident in the pressure put on parents to have their children "ready" for pre-school. I learned ABC's, counting, tying my shoes, etc. all in kindergarten. Video games, mature programing and allowing kids to "express" themselves is our fault. We need to have more control of what our children do, watch, say, wear and believe. It is our job to raise children as adults, not delinquent, self expressing punks. Look at the teenagers today.........scary! They will be running this country...remember that when we let them be "themselves". Time out is a waste of time. Time is nothing for children. They have no concept of time. So, losing time is nothing. We do spank our children. But, afterwards we explain to them what is right and why they were disciplined. And, most important we tell them we love them and that they are disciplined because we love them and want them to grow up to be fine adults. We also take toys and privileges away. But, talking will only do so much. I owe it to my children to be a positive, loving authority figure in their lives. The concepts stated earlier in regards to spanking are absurd. There is our problem. I have never seen a degree that can make up for common sense. You will have to "know" your child before you can truly learn a method of discipline that will work for you and benefit them. Don't necessarily spare the rod but don't abuse it either. I applaude your efforts for caring enough about your child to seek advise. Take mine for what it is worth. Old school thinking but as the response earlier said, "I turned out OK, and hey, I'm not violent. I'm a police officer with a wonderful family. Heck, I would be much more violent playing the video games we let children play instead of getting a little "slap on the butt". Just my two cents worth from Tennessee..

 

[Erin13178]

Thank you for ALL the responses.

Now let me say, PLEASE do not turn this thread into a debate. We all have different viewpoints on how to raise our own children.

Yes I am taking all suggestions into consideration, so if a poster on this thread gets under your skin, please just read and choose to not respond. I've seen something on this thread I don't agree with, and I choose not to start a debate.

Thank you all again for posting. To the person who said their 5 year old is now getting better by re-wording what you say, thank you, I think I shalll try this.

One thing that I have found that works with my dd is she LOVES movies. She gets to watch a movie a night, and if she is out of control usually if I say if you don't not calm down you will loose your movie for the rest of the night, and most nights problem solved. I think I've only had to take movies away 2 nights.

Now don't freak out, she doesn't watch movies all the time. She also has a pretty decent sized library here and her FAVORITE thing to do is read, and for me to read to her. No she can't "read" she has the books memorized.

Anyway, thank you for all of you who feel my pain. Today has been pretty good, considering she is sick (yet again) and we will be having her tonsils removed soon, ugh! Not looking forward to that one.

I think I needed to vent and for those who understand to commiserate with me, lol. Again I think we all want what's best for our children, 99% of parents do. Thank you!

 

[perkinsrose]

I cannot advise you on a daughter, because we do not have one. However, we do have three sons (5yrs, 2yrs and 7 mos.). I think alot of the drama you are experiencing from you daughter is the same that we all experience from our young children. I believe that it comes from the things that they hear and see on television and from other children. Children are so much more "educated" now than when I was a kid. Five year olds can carry on conversations with adults (educated ones at that) and even know more about computers than we do. Our children are not getting to be kids. We as a society are making them grow up too fast. The world is so fast paced now that it even affects our children. This is evident in the pressure put on parents to have their children "ready" for pre-school. I learned ABC's, counting, tying my shoes, etc. all in kindergarten. Video games, mature programing and allowing kids to "express" themselves is our fault. We need to have more control of what our children do, watch, say, wear and believe. It is our job to raise children as adults, not delinquent, self expressing punks. Look at the teenagers today.........scary! They will be running this country...remember that when we let them be "themselves". Time out is a waste of time. Time is nothing for children. They have no concept of time. So, losing time is nothing. We do spank our children. But, afterwards we explain to them what is right and why they were disciplined. And, most important we tell them we love them and that they are disciplined because we love them and want them to grow up to be fine adults. We also take toys and privileges away. But, talking will only do so much. I owe it to my children to be a positive, loving authority figure in their lives. The concepts stated earlier in regards to spanking are absurd. There is our problem. I have never seen a degree that can make up for common sense. You will have to "know" your child before you can truly learn a method of discipline that will work for you and benefit them. Don't necessarily spare the rod but don't abuse it either. I applaude your efforts for caring enough about your child to seek advise. Take mine for what it is worth. Old school thinking but as the response earlier said, "I turned out OK, and hey, I'm not violent. I'm a police officer with a wonderful family. Heck, I would be much more violent playing the video games we let children play instead of getting a little "slap on the butt". Just my two cents worth from Tennessee..

As a parent, I've made mistakes and learned as I went. I don't claim to be an expert. I have plenty of common sense as well a couple degrees one focussing on child development. I mentioned this to suggest I've done some research on the topic of spanking and have some knowledge on the subject. (like if the topic was 'when is too old to have a pacifier'--I would want to know if the person offering an opionion was a dentist) I just wanted to provide some links to sites that offer another opinion.

Time out works for alot of kids in the right situation. If a child needs a time-out several times a day, its probably being overused and may be ineffective. When i've used time-out at home and a version for extreme behavior in the classroom, it has worked. Kids don't like being removed from an activity. In some cases, they need those few minutes to calm down and then discuss appropriate behavior. Its all about consequences for behavior. (Just not physical punishment).

I don't let my kids play violent video games nor do i hit them ( spank, slap on the butt or otherwise). I don't spare the rod (meaning discipline).