OT: Son is flunking college, and I'm SO upset!

[Purseval]

2 kids from my son's high school got accepted into Georgia Tech, both had high SAT scores and good grades in high school. My son is now a junior there. The kid who got accepted with him flunked out with a 0.2 GPA. Just because you do well in high school doesn't mean you're up to college standards.

Because my state has a Hope Scholarship program that virtually guarantees anyone with a B average a scholarship high school grades have become a worthless indicator and Georgia colleges have a tremendous failure rate for freshmen, even with a slew of remedial programs.

 

[brymolmom]

Ok - here's the thing. Many people are saying to 'give him another chance' or similar. If he WANTS another chance, he'll do all the legwork (especially since he's 20) and find a loan and maybe ask you nicely to cosign a loan for him to return to school. That would be a very nice gift to give.

I am amazed at the young adults I see today whose parents do everything. And then we can't be surprised that the adult acts like a child. A parent is NOT obligated to pay for a child's education and if the parents want to give this ENORMOUS gift to their child - we have a right to see that it is not ignored and completely thrown in the trash ungratefully. NOw, if he was seriously having trouble, telling you that he was struggling and going in for extra help, etc. that would be a different story. No one gets through a whole semester of school as 'fine' and then is completely surprised by failing marks.

I have seen parents who call the school, find out when registration is, insists that the child go register (sometimes kicking them out of bed, etc.), pays the bills when they come in, pays for the books....and so on.

If you want your young adult to start acting more responsibly, you need to give him/her some actual responsibility. I'm not saying this is the OP, because she did not comment on all of this - I'm just saying that this is some of the situations that I've seen.

If it was me - I'd let HIM do all the legwork/research on getting back into school. THEN, I'd probably pay some of it and give him a loan for the rest (written up on paper). THEN I would insist on some rules, again written down. I would require:
A minimum number of hours spent doing schoolwork per day.
A maximum number of hours on video games per week (VERY, VERY small and maybe increase when mid-year grades are released).
An update with SPECIFICS on 'how he's doing' including any tests returned or online grades shown.
If he has a cell phone that has games on it (sounds like he doesn't spend a lot of time texting) - I would take it away except on way to/from work or school - again, until he starts showing some good scores coming home.

I know, this isn't giving much responsibility, however, once he's shown that he isn't responsible for school AND he's asking that I spend a LOT of money to allow him another chance - THIS is how he'd earn back my trust in his responsibility by following the rules.

And the big thing is here that he would need to ASK me to give him another chance. If he doesn't initiate it - perhaps he doesn't even want another chance, and then there is a big chance of it happening again.

GOOD LUCK! He's still young, I'm sure he'll find his niche someplace!

 

[kmvand1]

Wow, that's harsh! I guess that Ph.D. means I'm an idiot only qualified to drone endlessly at students because I don't know and/or know how?! Perhaps it never occurs to people that some people WANT to teach - in fact, love it? It isn't a fall-back for me, it's what I love!

You called yourself the idiot.............not me!

 

[famsen]

To OP:
First, I am so sorry with your disappointments and concerns.
I don't mean this to be an alarmist and please do not take this the wrong way, but are you sure there isn't something else going on in your son's life that he doesn't want to tell you?

I am just getting through a terrible two and a half years with my daughter. She was a straight A+++ honor roll student in high school. I never had to tell her to study-ever, even as a young kid. She did all her homework alone, she was driven and was committed to making something great of her life after high school.
Well, she did get some great scholarships to some great colleges but we could not afford the rest of the tuition at her first choice schools. She went to a local university during which time she lived at home and worked part-time.

She did great her first year of college. Again, straight A's and received all types of awards. She took a few supplement classes at the local community college that summer and began having difficulties with the classes and had to drop a class. Her behavior changed. She was extremely moody, slept a lot, quit her job and became withdrawn from us.

To prevent this from becoming an even LONGER story; the bottom line is we eventually found out she was using illegal drugs(snorting heroin to be exact). This was from the kid that NEVER wanted to take so much as a Tylenol for a headache without checking with me first.

I would say our very first clue that something was going on was the fact that she had those difficulties in her classes at college. Looking back there were a lot of clues but I could not believe it could happen to us.
My daughter is now 22. She is currently on probabtion. She just finished a 7 month stay at a halfway house.

OP, I am not at all suggesting this is the situation with your son, but I feel it is important to make sure you know that this can happen and maybe verify with your son that everything is okay. HUGS

 

[Jeninindy]

What's they saying? Those who can do, those who can't - teach??

Wow, I am really disappointed at that comment.

 

[disneymom2one]

I think an Aspie is an entirely different ball game. Parenting an Aspie is just not easy. We only have a middle schooler but I know I'm more involved than the typical parent. We constantly push the independence thing but it just will take time. We're not to college yet but we'll be as involved as she needs to be.

BTW, I teach at a hybrid 2/4 year school. It was a community college and now is granting 4 year degrees. It has never been "13th / 14th grade." All our credits are accepted at four year schools within our state. I love our school. It's an excellent option for many people.

Ok - here's the thing. Many people are saying to 'give him another chance' or similar. If he WANTS another chance, he'll do all the legwork (especially since he's 20) and find a loan and maybe ask you nicely to cosign a loan for him to return to school. That would be a very nice gift to give.

I am amazed at the young adults I see today whose parents do everything. And then we can't be surprised that the adult acts like a child. A parent is NOT obligated to pay for a child's education and if the parents want to give this ENORMOUS gift to their child - we have a right to see that it is not ignored and completely thrown in the trash ungratefully. NOw, if he was seriously having trouble, telling you that he was struggling and going in for extra help, etc. that would be a different story. No one gets through a whole semester of school as 'fine' and then is completely surprised by failing marks.

I have seen parents who call the school, find out when registration is, insists that the child go register (sometimes kicking them out of bed, etc.), pays the bills when they come in, pays for the books....and so on.

If you want your young adult to start acting more responsibly, you need to give him/her some actual responsibility. I'm not saying this is the OP, because she did not comment on all of this - I'm just saying that this is some of the situations that I've seen.

If it was me - I'd let HIM do all the legwork/research on getting back into school. THEN, I'd probably pay some of it and give him a loan for the rest (written up on paper). THEN I would insist on some rules, again written down. I would require:
A minimum number of hours spent doing schoolwork per day.
A maximum number of hours on video games per week (VERY, VERY small and maybe increase when mid-year grades are released).
An update with SPECIFICS on 'how he's doing' including any tests returned or online grades shown.
If he has a cell phone that has games on it (sounds like he doesn't spend a lot of time texting) - I would take it away except on way to/from work or school - again, until he starts showing some good scores coming home.

I know, this isn't giving much responsibility, however, once he's shown that he isn't responsible for school AND he's asking that I spend a LOT of money to allow him another chance - THIS is how he'd earn back my trust in his responsibility by following the rules.

And the big thing is here that he would need to ASK me to give him another chance. If he doesn't initiate it - perhaps he doesn't even want another chance, and then there is a big chance of it happening again.

GOOD LUCK! He's still young, I'm sure he'll find his niche someplace!

 

[Dizneydawn]

This is not turning into a very Disney like discussion forumn. If you all do not play nice I will punish you with 500 repetitive rides on It's a Small World and when everyone is off...nobody will be able to function at any community college or university! You all will be too busy eating pudding at the assylum down the road.

 

[kmvand1]

Wow, I am really disappointed at that comment.

I'm not the OP.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Sherry, I'm sorry for what you are going through.

I read where your DS is taking a medical terminology class. Is he interested in a medical career? If so, I would encourage him to salvage the semester as best he can, take a break and maybe volunteer to work (and train) for an local ambulance service. Of course keep the job he has now. Maybe volunteering and experience would help him gain perspective.

 

[Silent1CB]

My parents did not pay for my 4 yrs of college. I did. It gave me much more incentive to work hard at it, even while I was working a part time job at the time & commuting. There was time to enjoy life after college was done.

My feeling is when parents pay for college, some "children" still act as children and not as the adults they are.

With that said however, not everyone is meant for college. My DH wasn't for instance. I went to college for a certain field of work. He has passed me in that field of work and he left college after 1st semester & went with the military. On the job training, certification courses, every conference & training class he could take.

 

[acomasdiaz]

I am sorry for what you are going through. I understand not wanting to pay for a class the second time. I would be clear with your son on those terms.

I had a similar thing happen to me. I went away to college. I failed many a classes and was put on probation. The following semester, I didn't do much better and was promptly thrown out of school. I begged the Dean for a second chance and they let me back in the following semester. I was on the Dean's list every semester after that. I graduated in five years and then went on for my master's degree. After graduation, I worked at a University in Student Affairs and was able to help guide other students who were going through what I went through. So, I would definitely not give up on him so fast.


As for paying tuition, I was on my own the whole time. Had to take out loans to pay it all. I am happy to say that I finished paying off my loans years ago and that felt great to know I was able to do it all myself.

 

[akcire]

OP--

Here is what I would recommend to your son-go back to basics-establish a place to study. Not his room or anywhere else that had a screen, too easily distracted. I even recommended my sister in law turn off her internet access if she was using her computer for anything other than research.

Keep in mind when I went to college, the internet and computers were a new thing and people went to the library and read books printed on paper....so I am dating myself. If I need to learn a new concept or put real thought into a topic, I follow my own advise. I find a quiet place, bring a note pad a pencil and any source material I need---if not too soon I am reading the dis or watching some hulu.

I am sure your son will work it out. My sister in law went to community college, failed out her first semester. She then took a full time job at Burger King after a couple of months she got promoted to manager--it took her a year as the manager working 70 hours a week (no overtime) for a salary of $23,000 a year to realize she needed to go back to college and be a successful student. She asked us for advise, took a couple of courses to start (to make sure she really wanted it) and ended up finishing at University in 3 years---only about one year more than she would have without the Burger King detour. In a weird way the crappy job at Burger King was the best thing that could have happened. It showed her a life she did not want to live, and made her realize how hard life in the 'real world' is on a daily basis. Mentally she was a much better prepared student her second time around, and now runs a division for a major hotel chain.

 

[DawnM]

Your first point is actually why we are homeschooling. My Aspie thrives on homeschooling and is doing very well in Scouts, Golfing, and his Lego Robotics team.

Your second point had me a bit baffled. Most of my friends are indeed using their college education. It may just be the field I am in and that my DH is in, but we rarely meet someone with a college education who isn't in a field that required college (or even beyond) to get and do his/her job.

Dawn

Hi!
I spoke with a teacher once who put it in context that I hope you all appreciate.

"School is for squirrels. If you are a squirrel you are going to do fine. If you are a rabbit, you're screwed."

Schools teach one way and not all students learn that same way. Maybe your son is not able to thrive in a lecture, self discipline, homework style.



I can tell you that just this fall at my 15 year college graduating class reunion, 90% of the people were doing nothing with their degree. That is not uncommon.

QUOTE]

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Okay, this is completely off-topic I guess...other than the fact that I've wasted college tuition money for literally nothing.

DS graduated from high school this Spring. He wasn't a stellar student, but he did graduate with a B average. He enrolled at the local community college and took a total of 5 classes (16 hours) this fall. He ended up dropping his Chemistry class (and associated lab) a few weeks ago because he said he had no possible chance of passing it. A few days ago, he springs on me that there's no possible way he can pass his Math course, and will have to retake it. (He even had a tutor for the Math course.) 30 minutes ago, he calls me from school, and tells me he needs to change his schedule for next semester, because he's going to flunk his English course too. These weren't even super-hard classes that he dropped/flunked. The Chemistry course was equivalent to one he could have (should have) taken in high school. The Math course was actually a remedial, and won't even count toward a degree. The English course was just your normal Freshman English.

So, basically he started off with 5 classes, dropped 1, flunked 2, and will (hopefully) pass the other 2. The other 2 aren't even difficult classes (Public Speaking and Medical Terminology).

I'm at my wit's end with this kid. I've been asking him all semester long how he's doing in his classes, and the response is always "fine". College isn't like high school, where you can call up or email your kid's instructors to check up on them. Supposedly, he's an mature adult, and is entitled to the responsibilities and privacy of an adult...and mommy can't check up on him.

He works a part-time job, but only works about 20-22 hours per week, which pays for his car, gas, and a portion of his car insurance. I'm not sure that cutting back on his hours would even help, since he doesn't seem to study that much at home anyway.

I already told him (when he dropped the Chemistry course a few weeks ago) that I would NOT pay for the class a second time. Sorry, but it's a one-time deal...either you pass, or you pay for it the next time around. Is that wrong of me to think that way?

At this point, I'm just totally furious and upset. I "need" him to be a full-time student, because of health insurance. I can't afford to pay $600+ a month for Cobra coverage if he isn't a full-time student. But at this point, college is seeming like it's a total waste for him. He obviously doesn't appreciate the chances he is being given.

Other than the minimum wage job he's already got, he's not qualified to do much of anything. What is his life going to come to?

Grrrrr! Sorry, this was more of a vent post than anything. I need to get some of this off my mind before he comes home and I totally blow up at him. Sorry for any typos...I don't think well when I'm angry.

Well, maybe you should tell him...
the choice is his, he could either go full time to college and study his butt off OR get a full time job with benefits. Maybe college just is not for him, and that's ok, its not for everyone. Maybe after a few months of working in the real world he will want to go back to school and try harder.

 

[penn19]

Hi!

I first want to start out by saying I may not be the most popular person here after what I write but I do have a son, 19 as of today, who is not the hottest student either. So I do understand from a very personal level and have some input that might be against some of the thoughts posted but arrived at with experience.

My son was tested in elementary and middle school for dyslexia. Nothing found but his test results showed he was a visual learner and auditory learner.

His reading has also improved as he aged. He can read at an appropriate level but he cannot understand what he reads most of the time. If I read to him or he read aloud - he got it. Silent reading - no chance in heck. In fact it puzzled the people performing the tests on him when he was younger because he is brilliant. His IQ scores show that. But his grades, not so much.

I spoke with a teacher once who put it in context that I hope you all appreciate.

"School is for squirrels. If you are a squirrel you are going to do fine. If you are a rabbit, you're screwed."

Schools teach one way and not all students learn that same way. Maybe your son is not able to thrive in a lecture, self discipline, homework style.

My son is at a 4 year NCAA division II school. Small school. 28 students top in a class to help him not get distracted. He is worried he will not get higher than a C in a basic psych class. His major is graphic art. In one art class he has an A. That one is more about sculpture and physical art. In his second art class, he has a C. That class is 1/2 lecture and details about brushes and termanology.

He also dropped a math class because he had no chance of passing, even with an extra study class added to help in it.

So do I get your frusteration. Yes. Do I want my son to not struggle and me not to have to worry about classses and him passing, yes.

Is that a reality. Probably not.

I know your son is a bit older but he has some factors that will contribute to his success in a classroom. We can't ignore that. I am sure he is aware he is socially different and the fact he works 20 hours a week is commendable. There are kids with no difficulties in their life who can't hold 16 credits and a part time job. Whether it impacts him or not, or how much I do not know. Him being tired, having to re-group after work to get in the study mode etc., might be difficult for him. I can't presume to know how your son's brain works or what he struggles with.

I can tell you for myself though, I had to get to the point my son's senior year where I had to let go. Let go of feeling responsible for his grades and let go of being responsible for his future. I give him advice, suggestions but no more carrying the anger you do over something I have no control over. I used to micromanage his grades until his senior year. It did no good. He needed to own it and be responsible to himself.

I know you wrote college was not like high school where as a parent you have rights to know how he is doing. I get that 100%. I wish i could sneak a peek into his life in college. The question though is how much of his B's in HS was from you encouraging him to get studying for a test you knew of or turn homework in he was missing or you knew of. How much of those B's were driven by you or were driven by him? I again, have no clue what your truth is. For me - it drove a wedge between us that I needed to tear down.

I had to decide a relationship with him is more important than a report card with A's or B's on it hanging on the fridge.

My son is gifted. Just in other avenues than myself. I had to accept that and embrace it and encourage it. He can create beautiful designs and drawings and I cannot draw a stick person. He walks into a room and people literally flock to him. He has that prescence and social grace just naturally that I had to fight for. He is a goalie for soccer and was recruited to play at a higher level than most kids or adults could dream of and that means he has focus and has drive. Maybe not in what I thought he would have but then again I was the last picked in gym every day.

You said he loves video games. Maybe that could be a source of income for him. There is huge money to be made in the inductry of gaming design and graphics. Is there a technical school he could visit and talk to a professor about what options are out there for work and schooling in that field? Maybe having a pasion for that and love of the result would help steer himself towards success.

Help him know that you believe in him and you want him to be the best at what he can be and loves. Because if he doesn't love it, it will never matter.

I can tell you that just this fall at my 15 year college graduating class reunion, 90% of the people were doing nothing with their degree. That is not uncommon.

I agree that letting him have the responsibility of paying his bills if he does not go further is what I would do as well. If college is not my kids thing, that is okay but nobody lives for free.

I do not agree with the "tell him to join the military" route. I love the military. Was just at a Marine recruiting station visiting my sons BF who is back from basic. The military though is just like college or any career. It has to be something the person wants. The military should not be used as a threat or ultimatum because in the end, our kids are dying overseas everyday. If they choose to risk their lives, than that is a choice they alone must decide upon. You can give them the options, but I don't want to think some son, daughter, brother, sister or friend ended up giving their life for you or I because they couldn't get a decent grade in college.

I have 2 cousins who went to West Point and many family members in the military and I can't imagine a one of them would want the guy or gal watching their back to be someone forced into that situation.

I know you worry about health insurance, but I am here to tell you that just because you have it, doesn't mean it is goinbg to protect him. My youngest son was burned ina fire at a friend's home last Halloween. Guess what? I had insurance and because it was at another person's home, I am fighting with my insurance carrier now over the homeowners liability policy. Right now I am sitting at $320,000 in medical debt in my name until we settle in court and there is no guarantee I won't be stuck with it in the end. So is health insurance good to have, yes, but if he doesn't, hospitals will work with him on a payment plan and he could aply for hel through scholarships etc. they have for people in financial hardships.

I guess to end my novel, I want you to know I believe you love your son. If you did not you wouldn't care so much. It took almost loosing my youngest, to realise what I was so stressed out about for my oldest, wasn't what I wanted to be the memory my kids have of their Mom. The one who was flipping out over a D like it was the end of the world. Because it wasn't. It was a D. I also did not want my memories of my time with my kids to be over what went wrong and not what went right. As long as they are respectful, caringa and compassionate human beings, I am a success.

Your son will do well. He came from you and you have instilled in him the responsibilities of being a successful adult. It just might take a different path then the one he is on.

I am hoping I was able to help in some way - it just made me sad for you and him. You both deserve to be happy this Holiday Season and I hope you both can find some peace.

You "get it" like so many people never will. Thank you for making my day!

 

[Dizneydawn]

Your second point had me a bit baffled. Most of my friends are indeed using their college education. It may just be the field I am in and that my DH is in, but we rarely meet someone with a college education who isn't in a field that required college (or even beyond) to get and do his/her job.

Dawn

I am not saying that many fields do not want the person applying to have higher eductaion than HS - just that many people I know went into a different line of work than what they had planned on or specialized in during college.

In fact I think that a diploma absence prevents a lot of very qualified people from getting further within a company when achievement for the company should be looked at more.

With the economy and business opportunites the way they are - people are needing to be more flexible in what they look for, apply for and what fields they see themselves in.

I have a degree in Social Work. That has a huge percent of burn out and pays next to nothing in most cases. I could not afford my student loans with what I was making. Now, I am self employed, make a good income, volunteer my hours towards causes I am passionate about as well as donate money to families with less.

My ex has a elem. ed teaching degree. Taught at a private school fresh out of college, in 1994 for $18,000 a year because it was the only thing he could find. 2 years later the school closed with no warning in the middle of summer, he could not find another job in teaching. Subbed for a few months and worked with a friend on the side doing electrical. Pretty soon it was obvious he could quadruple his money in low voltage, the work was steady with insurance so he switched and loves it.

One thing I wish they did was ask kids in college, "What kind of lifestyle do you want to lead?" Because the way a kid invisons their life and the reality of what a career can make are not always one and the same. Create a budget for theri lifestyle and their income potential to see how on mark they are. My kids have done something similar in HS but before declaring a major - it would be a great refresher.


Not sure what your field is but myself, I hear situations like ours all the time.

 

[BuzzPrincessMom]

Okay not that this is the place to discuss CCs...someone came here to vent and some of us tried to help...if only to offer hugs.

I have chosen to be a CC professor. I enjoy teaching, I can not see myself do anything else. I could do corporate training, program or be an analyst, but I chose to teach. Those who can also love to teach.

 

[rockyroad]

A lot of kids screw up in the first semester.

12 hours is enough.
The idea is for the kid to finish school, not to burn out.

About the remedial classes, they are remedial because the kid didn't learn the stuff in high school.
This means that he is taking something that is difficult for him.

Kids drop classes and they fail classes.
It happens.
My own DD who graduated magma cum laud with a degree in biology took chemistry several times.
So what?

The idea is to make progress and not give up.

My own son is now struggling through college, but all of his high school friends have already dropped out.
So we are ahead of the game in many ways.

And I would not put even more pressure on the kid.
Growing up is hard.
And it seems to be really hard for a lot of guys.
He may need both understanding and external motivation from his parents.

Things could be much worse, so give the kid another chance.
And then maybe another.
Life is a process...

 

[MrsPete]

He's just not that into being a student.

Perhaps he wasn't ready emotionally: didn't know what he wanted to study, wasn't really committed to delving into several more years of education, but also didn't know what else he wanted to do. Perhaps he saw it as the path of least resistance -- after all, isn't college what EVERYONE does right after high school?

I don't believe he isn't capable. If he finished high school with a B average, then he's capable of pulling off a full schedule (with part-time work). Do not listen to excuses about why he "couldn't" do it. You're talking about freshman year. It's not that tough academically; it's just that he hasn't taken responsibility for his own education. See, high school is an experience that pretty much happens to you. Even if you don't do anything, you're going to have to attend, and your teachers are going to push you through. College is different. If you don't attend classes, if you don't do your work, if you don't find the initiative and DO SOMETHING, nothing will happen. At the end of the semester you'll have, well, you know what you'll have: nothing.

Whatever he does next needs to be HIS CHOICE. Is he going to work full time, or is he going to pay for his own tuition and work harder? Yes, he needs health insurance; the key word being HE needs health insurance.

 

[Dizneydawn]

You "get it" like so many people never will. Thank you for making my day!

Thanks. You made mine in return.

I have always been a good Mom. I am ashamed to say it took looking at my son's skin falling of his body, holding him as he screamed in pain and really know what it means to be helpless, to realize what it meant to become a great Mom.

I don't wish that torture on anyone but in many ways that tragedy re-created our family. I wish it wouldn't have happened but I would not change the results for anything.

We are going to Florida in a few days to celebrate one year of healing with all 3 kids. To have a 19 year old want to spend time with his Mom, future bonus Dad and younger siblings after being gone from his friends for over 6 months, is a testament to the belief that showing kids what matters will always come back 10 fold.