OT: Public school + uniforms?

[java]

My oldest son is in middle school. (7th grade next year) I have just found out that his school is going to switch to uniforms. For some reason this is really bugging me. As if the school is telling me how to parent. We live in a rural area and my son is on the principal's list. So test score improvement is not an issue for us. This is not a school with major safety issues. I just don't get it? Why uniforms?( In the sense of khaki pants and solid polos) I don't understand what the point of it is? This is PUBLIC school. I think the children should be able to express themselves. A little personality is not a bad thing as far as I am concerned. It is not like this will save me $$- because he will still need "play" clothes. You know clothes to change into after school. And I will have to buy uniform clothes. And the strange thing is that my dd (3rd grade) can wear whatever she wants. So what is good about uniforms? I went to Catholic school for my entire life(even college) so I wore them. I didn't want my kids to have to.

 

[bopper]

I have a 7th grader. Have you seen how they dress? They all dress the same anyway! But is there competition on where they get the clothes from? I am not sure of the trendy stores by you, but on the East Coast they want the clothes from Abercrombie or the like and have to have the Ugg shoes or whatever. Maybe there is too much pressure to conform and some kids can't afford these clothes. The uniform evens out this issue.

 

[minkydog]

I agree with bopper. Even in the middle schools many kids dress in a style that is distracting. I would love for our schools to go to uniforms--two of my sisters have kids in systems which use uniforms and they love it. No worrying about what to wear. No angst over not having the "right stuff". In the real world a lot of people wear uniforms.

Interestingly, at my sister's school(she's a teacher) their discipline problems have gotten a lot better since they went to uniforms. It seems their kids come ready to work and get down to business.

 

[beattyfamily]

Sorry, OP, but I would LOVE for my DDs school(s) to go to uniforms!

I would love to see this issue as a poll to see what parents think of it!

 

[Grumpy's Wife]

My three children wear uniforms and I love it. There is no guessing of what they will put on each morning. Everyone looks the same as everyone else. I hope our area never changes.

 

[java]

We are rural so there are kids that come in Farm clothes and kids that come in Abercrombe, and American Eagle, and Walmart.... The kids don't get caught up in the clothes as much as shoes...which will still be an issue with uniforms. The sneakers have to be Etnies or some other skater kind..I guess if they wear the same thing everyday someone with only 2 pairs of pants wouldn't stand out as much... I never thought about it that way...But we have 4 kids and we are not rolling in it. And in 2 years they are going to High school and there are no uniforms in High School....So I think this is all just a huge waste of time. A friend said it is because some of the girls are dressing "inappropriatly".
Oh and edit to say I really think being different is a good thing. And I do think my big issue with this is that I feel like they are telling me how to parent.

 

[minkydog]

A friend said it is because some of the girls are dressing "inappropriatly".

Have you seen what the girls are wearing? Middle school is disturbing, but High School is downright horrifying. A third of the girls dress like hookers and another third dress like junkies. The other third are Muslim.

Now I'm not advocating that girls should wear burkas, but I don't know what these parents are thinking to let their girls out of the house dressed like tramps. Please! School is not the place for belly buttons, butt cracks, bra straps, and bare shoulders. No wonder our boys are failing! They don't have Attention Deficit Disorder; they have Can't-Take-My-Eyes-Off-Her-Cleavage Disorder

 

[wrldpossibility]

Don't think of it as them telling YOU how to parent, but everyone else! Because if you've seen what MS and HS kids are wearing, you'll agree that it's out of control (therefore most parents, although likely not you, let them dress this way). I would LOVE my kids to have uniforms in PS. And the other posters are right...kids dress alike either way. Teach them to show their individuality in other ways than fashion!

Plus, it's proven that wearing uniforms improves the academics at school. Kids are just more in the "learning" mode when they put on the school clothes. Even though your child already gets good grades, won't you be glad other kids will take it more seriously now too?

I think you're very lucky to have such a forward thinking school! Now if only mine would choose uniforms!

 

[liznboys]

Java, I too went to Catholic schools and wore uniforms for 8 years (1st-8th grades, high school didn't use uniforms). I absolutely DESPISED those uniforms!! My friends and I wanted to burn them after our 8th grade graduation, our parents wouldn't let us though. lol I just hated them because they were ugly and I got so sick of wearing the same thing year after year after year... We had "color days" on the first Friday of each month and I remember loving those days so much!

I've not done a lot of research on the topic, but I would actually welcome uniforms for my boys. I think it would make things easier! Of course they would probably hate it like I did. lol

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Java- I'm guessing that the disparity in clothes -- Walmart, to farm, to Abercrombie -- is exactly why your school is going to uniforms. The school isn't telling you how to parent, it is probably trying to level the playing field for everyone. When the preteens and early teens don't have to focus on what others are wearing, they can focus on the school task.

Uniforms and stricter dress codes have really helped with discipline in schools that have students from many different educational levels. I'm a card-carrying member of the ACLU, yet I have no problem with this one.

Minky- I can see the humor in your post, but please be careful. Sentiments like that easily feed into the "she was asking for it" defense to truly reprehensible behavior.

 

[NotUrsula]

It isn't about you at all; it is about imposing order and showing kids that school is a place that has rules you must follow. The uniforms are a subtle but constant reminder of that, and they help to keep the kids attention on learning.

Trust me, once you get used to the convenience and the money savings (presumably your school is just restricting color and style, not specifying things like blazers and ties, etc.?), you will prefer them. Your kids will find ways to express their individuality; mine are in parochial school, and I know that it always happens. At our school they tend to do it with their backpacks.

 

[Laurajean1014]

I find that uniforms puts kids on a more even playing and social field. Not everyone can afford Abercrombie stuff, $100-$150 sneakers, etc. Fashion tends to distract children from watching the teacher.

A teacher friend of mine said that the girls are rolling up their tops to mid-drifts and wearing low rise jeans. When they sit down, you can see clear down past the g-strings. With boys nearby, it seems that the teacher cannot get the boys attention.

Hopefully, a good fitting uniform will not allow this to happen.

Sex will happen, boys and girls will still be attractive, but less noticable.

Also, it should save you tons of $$$$. You can buy three sets of uniforms for each kid about $130/child instead of buying everything the kids see in the higher end stores. Just a good pair of shoes and some weekend wear and you should be saving about $1,000 per child on clothes.

 

[babiesX2]

I think the rationality behind public school uniforms is that it is an "equalizer." I heartily disagree with them. DD13 had to wear them at a public school in 1st grade. There were so many choices to go with the uniform that it didn't make dressing her any easier. It only lasted a year in our public school system. The parents who voted in favor of it quickly came to regret their decision, and the next year regular clothes were back in. The public school unforms haven't come back up for vote since.

Parents make the argument that it isn't fair to the kids whose parents can not afford expensive name brand clothes. Since when is life "fair." Around here you could buy the uniforms at Gap Kids, Dillard's, Stage, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Goodwill, etc. It did nothing to equalize the kids. The kids who wore nice, expensive regular clothes before wore nice, expensive uniforms. That miffed some people off because their kids still weren't "equal" to the "rich" kids. At the time I was a single struggling mom who had to buy uniforms and street clothes. My daughter's clothes weren't expensive but she was always clean, neat and tidy.

 

[mytwotinks]

I guess I think of it as more of an inforcable dress code. I wouldn't think of it as a dress code. It just isn't possible to spend time every day going over every students outfit to make sure it is appropriate. I have seen 5th graders in my elementary school wearing horribly inappropriate outfits. I would welcome it. With less options it is less likely that they would break the rules.

 

[shellbelle1971]

My kids (grades 1-8 next year) go to a charter school where a strict uniform is mandatory. I love it.


Our school gives free uniforms to kids whose parents qualify for free or reduced cost lunches, and all parents can shop at regularly scheduled "swaps" run by our pto. So I can easily spend less than $50 per child per year on school clothes. So it saves me $.

I never, ever have any discussion about whether any particular item is "appropriate" or not. Unlike the traditional neighborhood school down the street from my house, at my kids' schoo, there are no girls showing clevage or boys with pants exposing their...ummm...private parts... "Appropriate" is already well-defined.

My children express themselves through their written work, the creative arts, verbal expression, etc. Believe me, school uniforms in NO way take away from their individuality. They just teaches them to judge people based on their ideas and actions, rather than based on what they are (or are not) wearing.

I think the US would do well to emulate most other countries in the world and adopt mandatory uniforms for all public schools.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I am all for uniforms in PS and my dh is totally against it! We don't have uniforms here but I can assure you that if you have to wear what some of the young girls around here wear to be popular then my dd will be spending alot of friday nights home with us! Buttcheeks hanging out, makeup like a streetwalker, stomachs out, etc. Then there are the boys who wear their pants with the underwear hanging out 20 sizes too big. Yeah- my kids will not be joining in that parade. We have a while to go before they are that age but I personally think uniforms do level the playing field a bit. My dh thinks it's none of their business what our kids wear. In other countries uniforms are the norm for PS.

 

[brymolmom]

I went to private school K - 8 then public high school, so I saw both sides of the fence. I am a huge proponent of uniforms in all schools. It made everyone see more of their own similarities initially instead of blaring out loud their differences. Yes, some kids are similar and some are different - but no need for it to be announced on day #1 - make them get to know each other first to see who they 'click' with.

To the poster who said that they could get uniforms at Kmart and some at Dillards- sounds like your district didn't do uniforms correctly. Sounds to me like it was more of a dress code (ie: wear a blue shirt and black pants) rather than a uniform. In order to succeed IMO, a uniform must be that - the SAME for everyone. Ok - give them a couple options maybe (skirt or pants for girls, button up or collared for boys) - but all have to be made by the same manufacturer, the same material. Otherwise it really isn't a uniform. Too bad- I wish your district had tried it that way instead.

And also in response to a poster, of course life isn't fair. But this type of 'unfairness' unfortunately enforces differences, creates more distinct boundaries, and makes kids 'choose sides' all the more. This can develop into intense rivalries, 'gang' type mentalities, etc. It really encourages a more harmonious existence with uniforms on. And that (even though they won't necessarily see that harmony in the 'real world') - will be a better learning environment for all.

 

[java]

How will wearing the same clothes make them live in harmony? Do you believe that the friend's my son made are only because of what they wear? My children know better than that as do the wide range of friends they have. My children are a different color than 95% of their school, a uniform isn't going to make them be any more the same as their peers. I still don't see how an oppressive rule is progressive? And perhaps if this would have been a vote I would not be as offended. It is the mandate by the school board that I have issue with. This is public school! Gosh I guess I am much more liberal than I thought. And this has nothing to do with gang activity...it has everything to do with the way the girls are dressing. But I thought that is why there is a dress code? Enforce that and there would not be need for uniforms. Oh well, I guess I'll have to see how it goes.

 

[Lisa_Belle]

Here's a good reason why uniforms work in schools (public or private). I never had to wear them, because they enforced the unform rule for the kids younger than me. But a friend of mine had a younger brother in that middle-school age. Now keep in mind that this was in the '80s when jeans and polo shirts were pretty much the norm for both boys and girls. My friend's brother was told that he wasn't allowed to hang out with the other boys because he didn't have the "right" polo shirt, meaning his polo shirt was not Ralph Lauren and did not have a pony on it. His mom did go buy him some, but the damage was done, the cliques were formed and he never was accepted. Sounds to me like your town has a lot of this going on, some kids wear Abercrombie and some do not. I'll bet if your children were the ones getting teased and bullied you would have an entire different outlook on the situation.

DD's school wears true uniforms. You get your choice of one of two different colors shirts with the school logo and can wear navy, khaki or plaid bottoms or a plaid jumper. You can buy new uniforms at a local clothing store or used uniforms at a sale held at the school. Ours are reasonably priced, about $7 for a shirt and $9 for shorts. I love it because I don't have to explain to deaf ears why wearing inappropriate clothing is, well, inappropriate. Besides, there ARE dress codes for adults. How many attorneys do you see in a courtroom with G-strings, belly rings and flip-flops?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Here's a good reason why uniforms work in schools (public or private). I never had to wear them, because they enforced the unform rule for the kids younger than me. But a friend of mine had a younger brother in that middle-school age. Now keep in mind that this was in the '80s when jeans and polo shirts were pretty much the norm for both boys and girls. My friend's brother was told that he wasn't allowed to hang out with the other boys because he didn't have the "right" polo shirt, meaning his polo shirt was not Ralph Lauren and did not have a pony on it. His mom did go buy him some, but the damage was done, the cliques were formed and he never was accepted. Sounds to me like your town has a lot of this going on, some kids wear Abercrombie and some do not. I'll bet if your children were the ones getting teased and bullied you would have an entire different outlook on the situation.

DD's school wears true uniforms. You get your choice of one of two different colors shirts with the school logo and can wear navy, khaki or plaid bottoms or a plaid jumper. You can buy new uniforms at a local clothing store or used uniforms at a sale held at the school. Ours are reasonably priced, about $7 for a shirt and $9 for shorts. I love it because I don't have to explain to deaf ears why wearing inappropriate clothing is, well, inappropriate. Besides, there ARE dress codes for adults. How many attorneys do you see in a courtroom with G-strings, belly rings and flip-flops?

AMEN!!! I had really nice clothes when I went to school but there was no way my parents were going to buy me ID# or Benneton shirts, guess jeans, Avirex jumpsuits, EG Smith socks, etc. We just did not have that kind of money. I did have some great friends but truthfully the lines were drawn. Of course who would want to be friendly with such snotty people? Well, young kids want to be accepted. I know it was so wrong of them to act that way and I was never that way- I was friendly to all kinds of people-but I still wanted to be part of the group. I played sports, joined clubs etc. but they weren't nice at all. Looking back I can say that they were really mean to alot of people, but while you are young it is alot easier if you aren't getting teased in school. I had very stylish clothes, but I did not have all the brands. That being said- I cracked up with the lawyer comment!!!