OT:Parent advice needed:Since when is a rectangle not a square?

[lg3]

Seeking advice as to whether I am over-reacting with dd4's teacher: dd is in PK, and we just had her parent/teacher conference. She is doing excellent overall, but her teacher marked her as "needs improvement" under "Identifies basic shapes", because dd said a rectangle is a square. Um, it IS! By sheer coincidence, the week before they tested on shapes dd and I talked about rectangles being a type of square, and a "square" itself is a perfect square (all 4 sides of equal length). When we told the teacher of our discussion, she said "Oh, I feel better now - I had to double check myself" I know this teacher is just teaching at the pk level, but really! She said in for her class they are to say "rectangle" not "square" (or "perfect square") so not to confuse the others. This is a Christian school we are paying good money for.
I know this all sounds ridiculous and somewhat trivial, but it really bothers me that dd is marked down for something that is actually correct. Am I too close to the issue to see it objectively? Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Keara'sMom]

You know, I could be COMPLETELY wrong, but I thought a square was a type of rectangle, but a rectangle wasn't a square, 'cause a square has equal sides! It's all so confusing...

 

[dzorn]

A square is a Rectangle with 4 equal sides.

A rectangle is a parallelogram with a right angle.

This is by definition in the dictionary I looked it up. If the sides are not equal the term used should be rectangle not square. A squares are a special type of rectangle. Rectangles are not a special type of square. When DD was studying the shapes I was surprised how picky they got with them diamond was no longer an acceptable term.

Denise in MI

 

[blana]

Agree with PP. Square is a rectangle, not the other way around. However, I do know that the "names" of shapes have been evolving, even in schools. My mom, who was a teacher for 30+ years, has been having fits because she taught my niece to say diamond, but no, that's a rhombus. Well, yes, it is, but come on. We all know what a diamond is. And oval is something else now, too, ellipse I think. But it's what they're supposed to know for testing purposes.

 

[LoveMyBoys]

You know, I could be COMPLETELY wrong, but I thought a square was a type of rectangle, but a rectangle wasn't a square, 'cause a square has equal sides! It's all so confusing...

I would have to agree with Kaera's Mom. A rectangle is a shape that has two pairs of parallel sides, and a square has 4 equal sides. So, a square is a type of rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Unless, I'm misunderstanding your post, the teacher seems to be correct.

 

[dis-happy]

I homeschool using Saxon Math, and in my ds' first grade curriculum they always refer to the "sqaure" as a "square" and the "rectangle" as a "rectangle". That is how the student is supposed to identify them to have the correct answer.

Also, it's been a while since I've done the middle elementary grade math, but I too thought what the pp poster said: a square is a type of rectangle, one where all four sides are of equal length.

 

[mickeylove2]

Seeking advice as to whether I am over-reacting with dd4's teacher: dd is in PK, and we just had her parent/teacher conference. She is doing excellent overall, but her teacher marked her as "needs improvement" under "Identifies basic shapes", because dd said a rectangle is a square. Um, it IS! By sheer coincidence, the week before they tested on shapes dd and I talked about rectangles being a type of square, and a "square" itself is a perfect square (all 4 sides of equal length). When we told the teacher of our discussion, she said "Oh, I feel better now - I had to double check myself" I know this teacher is just teaching at the pk level, but really! She said in for her class they are to say "rectangle" not "square" (or "perfect square") so not to confuse the others. This is a Christian school we are paying good money for.
I know this all sounds ridiculous and somewhat trivial, but it really bothers me that dd is marked down for something that is actually correct. Am I too close to the issue to see it objectively? Thanks for any thoughts!

A rectangle is not a square. A square is a shape that has 4 equal sides and 4 90 degree angles. A rectangle is a shape that has 2 sets of equal length sides and 4 90 degree angles. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

 

[lg3]

Thanks everyone! According to "Ask Dr. Math" :
Rectangles are not always squares, because squares need four sides of
equal lengths. The question whether the other way around is true depends on the type of definition you are using. There are often disputes about definitions.

In general there are two types of definition for geometric shapes:

INCLUSIVE DEFINITIONS: In the case of rectangles and squares this
means that a square is seen as a special case of a rectangle:

* A rectangle is a quadrilateral with four right angles.

* A square is a quadrilateral with four right angles and four equal
sides.

EXCLUSIVE DEFINITIONS: In the case of rectangles and squares this
means that a square is NOT considered a rectangle:

* A rectangle is a quadrilateral with four right angles but not four
equal sides.

* A square is a quadrilateral with four right angles and four equal
sides.

I prefer inclusive definitions, because they include the basic
mathematical concept of 'generalization': one item (rectangle) is more
general than the other item (square). But others say that exclusive
definitions are very useful for special cases.
You can read a discussion about this in the geometry pre-college
newsgroup at:
Trapezoid definition
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=1080683

I stand corrected. I suppose I'll sign the report card and keep quiet.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I'd be happy that the school that you are paying reallly good money for wants your child to learn accurate information. It is really overreacting to care that a four year old has something "marked down."

 

[Tammysue5]

While I understand the feelings you have, being the mother of 4 I can say that I have learned to "not sweat the small stuff". In the past if I have had a similar situation I would assure the teacher that we will definately work on it. I explain to my children what it is the teacher is expecting. I have always told my children that the teacher is who they must listen too and unless there is a blatant mistake on the teachers part, I will allow my children the opportunity to learn and realize that I stand behind the teachers decision. We have always had wonderful teachers! Thank goodness.

Is this your first child? I find that my husband and I were definately more 'particular' when our first one went through school.

 

[GoinToDisney]

I'm glad you posted about this and got the correct information. You are obviously a caring mommy. I hope you remember that it is OK to "need improvement" in an area. Your frustration may have come more from the fact that the NI seemed unjust (even though now you know that it was justified). You want to make sure your child is graded fairly. Your daughter needs to know that it's OK to get an NI too. She is in pre-k, and everybody has room for improvement. Perfect grades are not what school is all about, but your dd may interpret this situation as "I must always be perfect." Learning and improving are top priority, not perfection. Sometimes the kids who are perfectionists have a hard time, especially in today's world of education where creative thinking and problem-solving are encouraged and there isn't always 1 right answer. By the way, I am trying to discourage perfectionism in my dd (3 yo) lately, so this hit home with me. I think the NI gives you a perfect example to show your dd that everyone makes mistakes (even mommies! ) and that it's OK to need improvement because that is when learning takes place.

 

[mommy2aprincess4]

"I know this teacher is just teaching at the pk level, but really"


Many teachers at "Just the PK level" go through the same intensive training as those teaching say 1st grade - me for one. I'm on the last leg of my early childhood education degree and I have to say it's the hardest thing I've ever done.

However, I do think she over reacted a bit. My 4 yo often says square for rectangle as well. While it's not 100% politically correct, she's not taking her SATs tomorrow and by then I would hope she'll know the difference. If may help your daughter to have some hands on manipulatives to actually see the difference - lakeshore learning has lots of cool stuff for teachers and parents.

 

[lg3]

While I understand the feelings you have, being the mother of 4 I can say that I have learned to "not sweat the small stuff". In the past if I have had a similar situation I would assure the teacher that we will definately work on it. I explain to my children what it is the teacher is expecting. I have always told my children that the teacher is who they must listen too and unless there is a blatant mistake on the teachers part, I will allow my children the opportunity to learn and realize that I stand behind the teachers decision. We have always had wonderful teachers! Thank goodness.

Is this your first child? I find that my husband and I were definately more 'particular' when our first one went through school.

Yes, she is our one and only. We just haven't been lucky enough to have another DP at this point. I do tend to sweat the small stuff sometimes, and the big stuff doesn't even phase me.

 

[lg3]

I'm glad you posted about this and got the correct information. You are obviously a caring mommy. I hope you remember that it is OK to "need improvement" in an area. Your frustration may have come more from the fact that the NI seemed unjust (even though now you know that it was justified). You want to make sure your child is graded fairly. Your daughter needs to know that it's OK to get an NI too. She is in pre-k, and everybody has room for improvement. Perfect grades are not what school is all about, but your dd may interpret this situation as "I must always be perfect." Learning and improving are top priority, not perfection. Sometimes the kids who are perfectionists have a hard time, especially in today's world of education where creative thinking and problem-solving are encouraged and there isn't always 1 right answer. By the way, I am trying to discourage perfectionism in my dd (3 yo) lately, so this hit home with me. I think the NI gives you a perfect example to show your dd that everyone makes mistakes (even mommies! ) and that it's OK to need improvement because that is when learning takes place.

ICAM - thank you! From personal experience I know how upsetting and frustrating it is to always [unrealistically] expect perfection of oneself and others.

 

[Whosemom]

I stand corrected. I suppose I'll sign the report card and keep quiet.

Aren't you glad you asked here instead of slapping the peat out of the teacher? LOL Believe me, I know the taste of my own foot! What the heck IS a predicate?

I am trying to teach my daughter to say, "I don't understand why I missed that" in a "please help me understand" kind of way rather than a "How dare you" way. She won't do it. She wants me to take papers in and ask. Nope. Won't do it. She's 12, and there's no time like the present.

For what its worth, the only time squares aren't taught to be special rectangles is probably preschool, definitely not past 1st grade. As far as the rhombus/diamond issue, same thing. By at least 3rd grade they are learning rhombus. Its not a matter of the names of shapes evolving over time, its a matter of when the children are taught the precise names. A rhombus has 4 equal sides (uhoh - there you go - a square is also a rhombus), something a kid might call a diamond could have two pairs of adjacent sides equal, like a kite. By the way, the official name for that IS kite. LOL. I'd have to give ovals and ellipses some thought. Ellipses are ovals with a particular definition, but I don't know if ALL ovals could fit the definition. Right off the top of my head, I'd say not.

Oh good gravy. please allow me to take off my teacher hat and get back to work --- which today just HAPPENS to be writing review problems for the end of the chapter in a geometry book. (working from home is good for my family, but as you can tell, I am going slowly but surely insane)

 

[Maryr1]

I too have learned not to sweat the small stuff. I have 1 child(DD9) and when she was in kindergarten I got a note from the teacher that my daughter could identify an iron, but did not know what is was used for. I went to see the teacher wearing my BEST sweat outfit and assured her that the housekeeper had been briefed and would not fail us again. The first week she was to cover vacuming, laundry and folding and next week she was to cover all the kitchen appliances. In the end it was a very successful year.

 

[lg3]

"I know this teacher is just teaching at the pk level, but really"

Many teachers at "Just the PK level" go through the same intensive training as those teaching say 1st grade - me for one. I'm on the last leg of my early childhood education degree and I have to say it's the hardest thing I've ever done.

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that PK teachers don't have thorough training. Thanks!

 

[Keara'sMom]

[/B]

Yes, she is our one and only. We just haven't been lucky enough to have another DP at this point. I do tend to sweat the small stuff sometimes, and the big stuff doesn't even phase me.

I can completely relate! Dd10 is our only, and I totally sweat the small stuff, but I also sweat the big stuff, too!!

Hang in there!

 

[mommy2aprincess4]

I also hope I didn't come off snippy, I didn't mean it that way. Just wanted to mention that many prek teachers do have bachelors degrees, but depending on how she was taught that's probably what she's passing on to her students.
And I must admit - at this age most of the time the kids are smarter than the teacher

 

[mom2alix]

I too have learned not to sweat the small stuff. I have 1 child(DD9) and when she was in kindergarten I got a note from the teacher that my daughter could identify an iron, but did not know what is was used for. I went to see the teacher wearing my BEST sweat outfit and assured her that the housekeeper had been briefed and would not fail us again. The first week she was to cover vacuming, laundry and folding and next week she was to cover all the kitchen appliances. In the end it was a very successful year.

I would have gone in to the teacher and explained that I would LOVE to help DD with her homework, but I have NO idea what an iron is used for either!!!!