OT - need help with punishment for DD4 who stole and lied

[mom2faith]

Here is the deal - last night I picked up DD4 at daycare and she had money in her pocket.

So as we were walking home I asked her where it came from (it was only a quarter, but still it was money). She said my car and said it was in the very back seat. I said, no it could not have been because you did not sit in the very back this morning. She said "Oh, well then it was in the front seat". I said, I know you are lying so please tell me where it came from. She said "Charleen's" (the daycare).

Deep breaths mom!! Deep breaths!!

So, we get home and she goes to a time out while I think of her punishment. I decided to do the following.

• No Biking for 3 days
• No TV for 3 days
• No DS for 3 days
• No CD Player for 3 days
• I took a quarter from her money and put it in the Disneyfund so she knew what it was like to lose money
• She also returned the quarter to Charleen with an apology.

I chose 3 days because she had done 3 things wrong - stealing and lying twice.

So,this morning she was asking if Papa was still coming over tonight. I said yes. She asks if she can call him, so I allow it.

She calls and says "Papa, guess what? I'm grounded!!" She is proud

So, now what?!?!?!

Any help please??

TIA

Amy

 

[look1angel]

I have 3 grown children ages 23, 24 & 26. I also ran a reg. daycare in my home for 17 years. Because this is all new to her she may find it to be a different type of attention. If on the other hand she feels what you have done will not effect her then what I have learned is you take away what matters the most to them during punishment in order for it to have the impact you're looking for. For instance, my son would have rather sat in time out for 10 mins then take away his video game time for the whole day. So we learned to take away the videos, with my daughters it was cell phone/computer & TV ALL of it. This is what mattered to them.
Keep in mind she is 4 years old & maybe has heard on a TV show about grounding and finds this amusing. As she grows, & I'm sure she'll be grounded again in the future, she'll find it to be less & less funny. Finding the punishment to fit the crime can be daunting at times. In the mean time you're on the right track. Good luck.

 

[cuppycake]

4 years old has really been interesting in our house as well. I find that it's when my girls have really started testing the waters more to see what they can and can't do, how much we will let them "get away" with and how the world works.

First, let me say that I think so much of discipline really depends on the child and what works for you.

In our house, had this happened (at least at 4 years old), I think the returning of the quarter with an apology and the having to give away some of your own money would have been where we stopped. My girls seem to learn the most if we relate the punishment to the crime so to speak. And, really, discipline is about TEACHING after all. It's only been successful if they learn and make a better choice the next time. So, these things would teach that when we do something we shouldn't, we apologize, and we would learn what it feels like to have worked hard for our money (if it's an allowance) and have it taken away from us.

At 4, taking away ALL of those other things seems a bit much in my book, but you know your child. It's definately more of a punishment (which might be appropriate if she did this on purpose, or if she had done it before and this was a second offense). For an older child who really knew exactly what they had done, taking things away might mean more.

I think you are certainly on the right track, though. Good for you for being a strong momma who wants to nip these things in the bud!

 

[MickeyMouse'sBFF]

Completely baffled why you are freaking out about it.
Did she "take" the quarter, or did she find it on the floor and pick it up? I think we have all found a coin on the ground and picked it up to keep. Sounds like you may not have all the information. Not to mention, weren't you just as guilty then by adding it to YOUR piggy bank, and not taking it back to the place she got it? Just a thought....

 

[Cinderellabride]

My ds1 is 15 months and my ds2 is 3 weeks, so I am by no means an expert in this matter, but I was thinking that since she's four she might be "proud" to be grounded because on tv and whatnot grounding happens to older kids, so it probably makes her feel like a "big kid."

I agree good for you for trying to nip this in the bud.

 

[mom2faith]

I am sorry, this is the second offense. I did not mention that earlier. She recently took some of the other girls pennies from Daycare.

I am not "freaking out" I am stressing out that DD is not getting it.

She said it was under a chair so she took it. I have told her that when she finds anything at Charleen's, especially money, she has to give it directly to Charleen.

Thank you.

 

[koima]

Completely baffled why you are freaking out about it.
Did she "take" the quarter, or did she find it on the floor and pick it up? I think we have all found a coin on the ground and picked it up to keep. Sounds like you may not have all the information. Not to mention, weren't you just as guilty then by adding it to YOUR piggy bank, and not taking it back to the place she got it? Just a thought....

She had the little girl give the quarter back and apologize. Another quarter was taken from the girl's money.

 

[Cinderellabride]

Completely baffled why you are freaking out about it.
Did she "take" the quarter, or did she find it on the floor and pick it up? I think we have all found a coin on the ground and picked it up to keep. Sounds like you may not have all the information. Not to mention, weren't you just as guilty then by adding it to YOUR piggy bank, and not taking it back to the place she got it? Just a thought....

She took one of her daughters quarters for the Disney fund, not the quarter the daughter took, that one she made her return with an apology.


ETA: oops looks like I posted at the same time as the above poster.

 

[MickeyMouse'sBFF]

OK OK... CALM DOWN YA'ALL
PEACE LOVE AND HAPPINESS EVERYONE..
I didnt get that she had done this before and was told not to. I didnt get you had her take her own money..I thought you said you put that money into your disney piggybank..I was thinkin..WHAAA???? Ok, confusion cleared.
The whole thing boils down to what "thing" is her price to pay for the crime? For us, it would be money we would have to pay for a ticket.. Money doesnt mean anything to her at 4 years old... Whats her currency? Dolls..special toy? something you know would make her "feel" the loss for the punishment.
You know her best, Im sure you know how to handle it.

 

[mom2faith]

I guess my question is, I thought I knew what to take away (bike, TV, DS, etc) but she is so proud of it.

Maybe it was the terminology of being "grounded" and she does not understand the word and therefore thought it was "cool".

 

[2cutekidz]

First, why do these kids have quarters and pennies at Daycare in the first place?

For a 4 year old 5 different punishments seems a bit overkill - especially for the offense. I would have picked one of them - along with the apology and returning the quarter - instead of doing all 3.

I agree she doesn't know what "grounded" means.

 

[mrsbornkuntry]

If she hasn't been grounded before or known any siblings that have been and seen their negative reaction she probably is proud of being punished like a big kid.

Was she upset or reluctant at all about the apology? My DS once brought a toy home from pre-k, he thought it was okay because it was part of a broken toy. I found it in his pocket and made him take it back and apologize after I explained why it wasn't okay to take it home. He was very embarrassed and while the provider's instinct was to say "oh, it's okay, thank-you" instead she gently reminded him that they wanted to fix that toy and if he took that home they couldn't fix it and that the rule was no taking things home. So it was effective not only because he was upset about it, but also because the provider took the same stance that I did by telling him it wasn't okay.

I don't think your dd is going to learn from being grounded because it doesn't really have anything to do with what she did wrong. I think you were on the right track by taking away some of her money. Maybe you could even get out her money and count it with her and remind her how much she would have if she hadn't done that.

 

[Alesia]

I teach Pre-k, so I have a lot of experience with this age group.

First of all, I think it's good that you want to correct this.

Having said that, the punishment is way too complex for a 4 year old. When you throw that many things at them, they can't absorb it all and the punishment looses it's meaning.

I think I would have stopped with making her return the quarter and apologize. Then I would have followed up with a conversation (not a lecture) about why stealing is wrong. If she can write, a (simple) written appology would be a good idea.

At 4 years old, most kids don't really get the concept of being grounded. Taking away the bike and the DS doesn't really relate to stealing and they can't make the connection between the two.

 

[MSSANDRA]

First, why do these kids have quarters and pennies at Daycare in the first place?

For a 4 year old 5 different punishments seems a bit overkill - especially for the offense. I would have picked one of them - along with the apology and returning the quarter - instead of doing all 3.

I agree she doesn't know what "grounded" means.

Agreed. Preschool director here. If she had taken the money out of another child's cubbbie, I would be more concerned than not returning what she "found" lost/found-yours mine is a hard concept for a four year old. Return the coin and loose one thing for a day or two is enough. Over reaction can increase the repeating sometimes!

 

[kitsch4]

I think I would have stopped with making her return the quarter and apologize. Then I would have followed up with a conversation (not a lecture) about why stealing is wrong.

I totally agree. If my children misbehaved in preschool/Kindergarten, I always had a talk with them and then had them apologize to the teacher the next day.

 

[MonkersMama]

Something similar happened with us with DS5 a few weeks ago. We had been visiting my best friend and her newborn and then we left and went to a nearby playground, DS whipped out some cash out of his pocket and showed me while playing and after I picked my jaw up off the ground he told me he "needed it for his Disney bucket" (he does little chores around the house and gets pocket change for helping).

What we did: stern "not ok" lecture, I called my girlfriend and he listened while I explained to her what I discovered. I marched him promptly over to her house where he had to apologize and explain himself and return the money. We talked about how people would think he was a "thief" if he ever did that again and what embarrassment means. He had his privileges (Lego and tv) taken away for that day. We had a follow up discussion the next morning. I really don't think he'll try something like that again.

I wish you luck, it's a hard position these little ones put us in some days!

 

[PrincessTaylorsMom]

I understand why you're freaking out. My kids are 4 and it is a challenging age. But I also think that she really just doesn't "get" what being grounded means. I think that she reacted that way because (assuming that she has not been grounded before) she accomplished a "first". Firsts are something kids are proud of. It makes sense. We have consequences for actions in our house too (like taking away Movies, etc). But I think you were right on track with the primary "punishment", giving the quarter back and apologizing. That is something that she definitely will understand.

Good luck!

 

[mom2faith]

If she hasn't been grounded before or known any siblings that have been and seen their negative reaction she probably is proud of being punished like a big kid.

Was she upset or reluctant at all about the apology? My DS once brought a toy home from pre-k, he thought it was okay because it was part of a broken toy. I found it in his pocket and made him take it back and apologize after I explained why it wasn't okay to take it home. He was very embarrassed and while the provider's instinct was to say "oh, it's okay, thank-you" instead she gently reminded him that they wanted to fix that toy and if he took that home they couldn't fix it and that the rule was no taking things home. So it was effective not only because he was upset about it, but also because the provider took the same stance that I did by telling him it wasn't okay.

I don't think your dd is going to learn from being grounded because it doesn't really have anything to do with what she did wrong. I think you were on the right track by taking away some of her money. Maybe you could even get out her money and count it with her and remind her how much she would have if she hadn't done that.

She was completely embarrassed and upset. Charleen did the same thing, and stated that if Faith finds money she is to return it to Charleen immediatly.

I teach Pre-k, so I have a lot of experience with this age group.

First of all, I think it's good that you want to correct this.

Having said that, the punishment is way too complex for a 4 year old. When you throw that many things at them, they can't absorb it all and the punishment looses it's meaning.

I think I would have stopped with making her return the quarter and apologize. Then I would have followed up with a conversation (not a lecture) about why stealing is wrong. If she can write, a (simple) written appology would be a good idea.

At 4 years old, most kids don't really get the concept of being grounded. Taking away the bike and the DS doesn't really relate to stealing and they can't make the connection between the two.

Can't write yet. But the verbal apology did help.

I understand why you're freaking out. My kids are 4 and it is a challenging age. But I also think that she really just doesn't "get" what being grounded means. I think that she reacted that way because (assuming that she has not been grounded before) she accomplished a "first". Firsts are something kids are proud of. It makes sense. We have consequences for actions in our house too (like taking away Movies, etc). But I think you were right on track with the primary "punishment", giving the quarter back and apologizing. That is something that she definitely will understand.

Good luck!

Yeah. This is where I went wrong. I used the word grounded. And, I might of over-reacted.

You are all right when you say the too much punishment can be a "bad" thing and I think that is what I did here. I was trying to make a point and went overboard.

I am absolutly going to stick to this punishment though - I kind of have to to set the standard. And next time, I am going to take a deep breath before "grounding" her.

Let's hope there is not a next time!!!

Thank you everyone.

PS Tonight we are alos going to talk about what grounding means. Not a lecture, just a chat.

 

[Deffenm]

I hope your dd "learns her lesson". We have tried everything with DS8 and nothing works. He lies, steals, does not complete tasks as asked, and does not listen when you are trying to talk to him about this. He does his "punishment" and as soon as his punishment is over he goes back to doing whatever he wants. It is so frustrating because we don't know what to do with him. He is a sweet person and makes friends easily but he has no self control. We go into a store and he wants a pack of gum he will just put it in his pockets. We have to search him before we leave stores, before and after school, it is so exhausting but we dont' know what to do. He has been to jail for a tour to be shown what happens to people that steal... did nothing. So if anyone has any suggestions for an 8 year old that just does not care about anything but himself I am open for suggestions. We have tried reward charts but he behaves until he earns his reward and then goes back to his old ways so he is not really learning anything just that he wants the reward. He loses privledges (no bike, tv, movies). I am sorry to take over OP post it just hit home when I read the title. There are days that all I want to do is cry because I feel so helpless.

 

[mom2faith]

I hope your dd "learns her lesson". We have tried everything with DS8 and nothing works. He lies, steals, does not complete tasks as asked, and does not listen when you are trying to talk to him about this. He does his "punishment" and as soon as his punishment is over he goes back to doing whatever he wants. It is so frustrating because we don't know what to do with him. He is a sweet person and makes friends easily but he has no self control. We go into a store and he wants a pack of gum he will just put it in his pockets. We have to search him before we leave stores, before and after school, it is so exhausting but we dont' know what to do. He has been to jail for a tour to be shown what happens to people that steal... did nothing. So if anyone has any suggestions for an 8 year old that just does not care about anything but himself I am open for suggestions. We have tried reward charts but he behaves until he earns his reward and then goes back to his old ways so he is not really learning anything just that he wants the reward. He loses privledges (no bike, tv, movies). I am sorry to take over OP post it just hit home when I read the title. There are days that all I want to do is cry because I feel so helpless.

WOW!!!

This is a big issue, a lot bigger than what I am going through so to you!!!

At this point there is obviously something deeper than just attention grabbing and testing his boundaries.

Has he been tested for a learning disability? Maybe his frustration from that is spilling over into aggression.

What about abuse - not you, but is there someone else who could be abusing him and he is acting out? (I hate to suggest that, but with all of the stories you hear nowadays, you never know. I would never wish that to be the problem, but if it is a possibility it is better to stop it now than later).

There are so many possibilities you could explore. Counselling to start maybe the best route. Something is bothering him, I am sure of that.

Good luck!!!