OT: need advice for bratty 4 year old

[Sophie_2003]

Hello,

I may be in need of Dr Phil, but since so many of you have good inside tips, here goes.

My almost-4-year-old DD has major issues with going to play outside. We try to get her ouy everyday, and to do something fun (skate, slide, play in the snow as a family, go play with a friend up the street). We live in a northern climate, so snow/cold/wind is a fact of life and we all dress appropriately.

It always is an aerobic exercise to get her out the door. She fights getting out of her pyjamas (whether it is 9am or after lunch), fights all her clothes going on. We end up having to manhandle her to get her ready. She will throw off her hat/mittains if she can. She screams so loud, neighbours may think we are beating her. By the time we get outside, we are all in a pool of sweat, and everyone's nerves are frayed.

We have tried rewards, consequences, pleading, bribery...

The thing is, 9 times out of 10 once she's out she usually has a good time, so I don't understand why this is STILL an issue. Most of my friends' kids that age get dressed all by themselves and have a great time outside.

if anyone has any ideas to help...I woud greatly appreciate!

thanks!

 

[TheRatPack]

Really no advice here, as 4 out of 5 of ours LOVE to go outside (in any kind of weather). We do however have the screaming fits.....I just put them in the bathroom and I stand there with them till it's over so it doesn't irritate the other kids. Although, the bathroom wall is an outside wall so I'm sure our closest neighbors probably think we're beating them.....ugghhh.

I'm surprised that a 4 year old doesn't want to go outside and play though....I'd probably just play inside with her.....rolling a ball, doing jumping jacks...etc.

 

[Nom]

I had a similar experience lately getting dd to brush her teeth (she is 3). It was a control thing for her. Finally, my dh brought her to the store to pick out her own tooth paste, and now she happily brushes her teeth on her own.

Maybe your dc could pick out a special hat, and then dress themselves to go out, they would be more cooperative and it would be a more pleasant experience? Although it would take longer with her doing it, she might be more willing to be cooperative if she is more in control of the situation.

 

[Elmo888]

I had a similar experience lately getting dd to brush her teeth (she is 3). It was a control thing for her. Finally, my dh brought her to the store to pick out her own tooth paste, and now she happily brushes her teeth on her own.

Maybe your dc could pick out a special hat, and then dress themselves to go out, they would be more cooperative and it would be a more pleasant experience? Although it would take longer with her doing it, she might be more willing to be cooperative if she is more in control of the situation.

This is what I was going to mention - give her limited choices that get her to where you want her to go. "Do you want to wear this outfit or that outfit?", where both outfits are appropriate to you, "Do you want me to put your jacket on you or do you want to do it yourself?" - either way, her jacket is on, "Do you want to wear these socks or those socks?" - again, either way, she has socks on.

Does that make sense? It helps her feel like she is control, but you are still getting her to do what needs to be done. Everyone wants to be in control!

My favorite to get my DD3 to lie down in bed is "Do you want me to cover you with your blanket or do you want to cover yourself?" I know that she wants me to do it, so she lies down immediately!

 

[Aliceacc]

I'm sure she's not a "brat"... she's probaby a typical 4 year old. They're pretty much convinced that they are in charge, or should be.

HOw about a combination of giving her limited choices and natural consequences?

"OK, Susie, let's pick out your clothes for this week. Monday looks cold-- do you wan the outfit with the red sweatpants of the green?"

"You need to get dressed now. Do you want to watch Cyberchase while you get dressed or would you prefer Dora?" (If she has a meltdown, the TV goes off.)

Let her throw off the hat and mittens, but bring them along. After a minute or two, natural consequences will kick in... she'll get cold and ask for them.

"Well, Susie, the TV is going off at 10 am. We can either go skating or you can take a nap this afternoon. Which is it?" IF she chooses not to go out, let her have her way, but don't change the house rules. No TV till 6 pm, she can't spend all day in her room... After a while, boredom should hit.

 

[MSSANDRA]

Is this the only time you see this "bratty" behavior?? If it is pretty common for her, that is one thing but if it is just the going outside, I would look at it differently.

She does need to be out everyday, but perhaps she is more sensitive to cold than some children. Perhaps agreeing to go out for a shorter time would help. Are her clothes as comfortable as possible?? Is outside time during a "good " part of the day for her. Ex, after her nap rather than when she is more tired. I agree with choices as much as possible. Red or green hat, dad or mom zip coat. If all this fails, I would then turn to discipline. If she is not doing to go out during outside time, she can just sit on her bed and do nothing during that time. Bet it would not take long to decide to go out. A four year old should be able to dress for outside play with just a little help. Sounds like she enjoys the drama. I would try telling her she has 5- 10 minutes to get dressed and then if she is not, have her sit on her bed for the amount of time she would be outside.

Good luck !

 

[Sophie_2003]

Thanks for all the input...no, it isn't the only time she is bratty, but the hardest one because I feel if we send her to her room she "won". Other tantrums get immediate consequences (end of playdate, loss of TV privilege, loss of a toy she enjoys (temporary))...It just is disheartening because DH and I are very outdoorsy and find it difficult to constantly deal with her reluctance to go out!!!

 

[npmommie]

well she is a typical 4 yo, she just wants control over what she does. think how you would feel if someone all of a sudden said to you, ok sophie we are going outside now, put these clothes on now, and put this coat on now, lets go!
i would rebel too.
give her choices, give her time to switch gears to going outside,
you could say, ok after breakfast we will get dressed, give her a heads up of what you want to do.
and maybe she just doesn't like the cold. there must be indoor play spaces up there, maybe take her out to something like that instead of the snow,
my 7yo loves the snow, my 4 yo not so much, he wants to come in much sooner than his sister.
she is at the age where she will begin to show some independence on what she wants to do, what she wants to wear etc.
pick your battles, they all aren't worth winning

 

[Aliceacc]

just is disheartening because DH and I are very outdoorsy and find it difficult to constantly deal with her reluctance to go out!!!

And keep in mind... she may NOT be outdoorsy. While she does need fresh air, she may be the kind of person who would rather curl up with a book or do something else inside.

I'm not suggesting that you give her carte blanche, but that you do take her personality into account for some of those activities.

 

[FFXDSNADDICT]

Ill be very honest right off the bat so that if people don't want to read the rest of my post they don't have to. No I don't have any kids of my own quite yet... give me another 6 months then Ill be able to answer from Mom standpoint, however that being said I used to babysit for a family that had the same problem and I loved how they handled it so I thought I would add it. Before I arrived they had a big problem with time management. There daughter never got up at the same time, never had breakfast ect... Finally they got their daughter up at the same time each day. She was allowed to eat breakfast and watch one tv show (THE WIGGLES) in her Pj's, and then it was time to pick out clothes. As another mom posted they allowed her to help with the choices but there were only two. So it was either the pink shirt or the shirt with flowers, the jeans or the cords. She did however always pick her own socks for a big pile in the drawer. By this time we would play for about an hour and then have snack and then she was made very aware that after snack it was outdoor play time. During the summer this ment a bathing suit and during the winter it was Hat, Coat, Gloves and boots. We played for about an hour and then it was lunch. After a few bad weeks of trying to adjust she really got the hang of it and it stoped becoming a struggle. Of course there will always be bad days but they were few and far between!
I hope this helps, if not I do hope you find something that does.

 

[Rylee]

Have you considered your daughter may have sensory issues?

What some parents think of as control issues, are really sensory issues. I asked because you mentioned she fights getting out of her PJ's and fights all her clothes going on.

I love fashion and clothes, as do my daughters, and my older son is easy going and will wear whatever I set out for him... sweaters, turtlenecks, sweatshirts, button-downs, etc., but my younger son won't, he can't tolerate having certain styles or materials on his body.

At first I thought it was defiant behavior, but after speaking to some professionals (Dr. and physical therapist) because I was concerned he wasn't dressed warmly enough, (We live on the Snowbelt, near Syracuse, NY) they explained his behavior.

It has been a challenge to find certain clothing items for him... warm jackets without bulk, no elastic around the sleeves, no stand-up collars, etc., but it sure helps keep the battles to a minimum and my son is much happier.

I would also recommend giving her limited choices, regarding clothing and activities, making her responsible for dressing herself and using a parents best tool... distraction. (Ask her what her favorite ride at Disney is, while she is getting dressed to go outside.)

Make your expectations very clear, but also, try asking for her input... "Tomorrow, when we go outside, would you like to go sledding or build a snowman?"

 

[Elmo888]

Thanks for all the input...no, it isn't the only time she is bratty, but the hardest one because I feel if we send her to her room she "won". Other tantrums get immediate consequences (end of playdate, loss of TV privilege, loss of a toy she enjoys (temporary))...It just is disheartening because DH and I are very outdoorsy and find it difficult to constantly deal with her reluctance to go out!!!

Even though it isn't directly related, you could still take away a favorite toy or privilege (she might be too young to understand this part). I've said that hundreds of times..."If you don't ___________, your doll is going to go to toy time-out until tomorrow."

 

[graygables]

I had an acquaintance who didn't send hers to their rooms, she used a mat in the middle of the floor. They couldn't get off the mat and if they did, they were firmly placed back on it, then extra time added to the timer. The timer didn't start until they were quietly sitting. They hated hearing the beep-beep-beep of the minutes adding up. They could not have toys, books, or TV and no one could speak to them as long as they were on the mat. It didn't take long for them to figure it out.

My own kids were never rewarded, bribed, or cajoled into doing that which was expected of them (getting dressed). If I had to wrangle them into their clothes (which I did a few times), it was an unpleasant experience for THEM that they never wished to repeat, so the lesson was learned. Screaming unless there is pain involved is never OK and needs to be shut down before it gets any further out of hand.

The more I watch the Dog Whisperer, the more I realize he's got some pretty good techniques that translate well to toddlers. Primarily the gentle "bite" with his hand and the little tap on the butt (he uses his foot, but a hand would do just as well...) Just enough to distract, but not enough to harm.

ETA: you also have to be meticulous with your follow through. If you say, "You can't watch TV for a month!" out of anger, then, tough as it is, you HAVE to unplug the TV for a month. NEVER, EVER make a threat that you will not carry through or you are done disciplining your child with any kind of respect.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

I use to hate getting bundled up to go outside as a kid - always felt like a sausage where I couldn't put my arms down because my Mom made me wear too many layers!!

Maybe take her shopping and let her pick out ALL her winter gear? Hope she out grows this phase.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I also think it's a control issue. She knows how important it is to you that she go outside so she's going to make it difficult for you. That's pretty typical 4 year old behavior. She wants to do things her way and she's found this particular situation as something she can control.

I work with preschoolers. Mine are special ed kids but I think the same rules apply to most every kid. Using very short and to-the-point directions is best and there should never be more than 2 choices at one time. You need to have lots of patience and be willing to say the same 2 or 3 words over and over. Instead of wrestling her into her clothes, let her dress herself. Put her in a room where there's nothing fun to do and where she can't easily escape -for example have her get dressed in the bathroom while you stand or sit in the doorway. Instruct her to get dressed with as few words as possible. I had a kid in my classroom who would take his shoes off every chance he got. It's against school safety rules to be without shoes so I would say, "Shoes on" over and over until he got bored and finally put them on. After 3 or 4 "shoes on" sessions with me, he stopped taking his shoes off altogether.

If she refuses to get dressed, calmly say, "You can get dressed or sit in the bathroom all day. What are you going to choose?" No more cajoling, negotiating or discussing the issue. She's allowed to scream but you won't react to it and she'll eventually get bored with it. You can even bring a magazine to flip through so her antics won't be getting your attention.

If you're very consistent, the behavior will eventually change. I learned these techniques from a psychologist who sees my 12 year old son (he has Asperger's syndrome and has presented us with some challenging behaviors). I also found the techniques to be useful in my job and I share them with the parents who are at their wit's end! The main thing he taught us is that the bad behavior can never, ever win. And it will get worse before it gets better. If you can hang in there, you will get results. Good luck!

 

[disney_family_1247]

Have you tried to figure out why she's so resistant to getting dressed? Kids don't act that way without a reason, and a four year old is too old to be "manhandled" into their clothing every day. Does she act like this in any other areas of her life? Does she want to choose her outfits? If they are weather appropriate, letting her choose might help. If it were me, I would back off on the outdoor play for a little while. You are stressing her out by doing this, which isn't healthy, so why worry that staying in for a couple of days isn't healthy? Give her (and yourself) a break from the fight. Spend some time talking to her about why she freaks out about getting dressed. Sometimes kids just need to know that you are actually listening to them and want to help them feel better.

 

[lpandorf]

I have an almost 4 year old DS and the timer is our best friend. He even asked for the timer tonight. He likes to say no quite often to what we ask him to do. Or he takes forever to do somthing simple like put on this pajamas that he can easily do. So when he won't do something we need him to do I just set the timer on the stove for him. Say he has x amount of time to do what we are asking. Then he is racing against the clock. He always does what we are asking quickly and no more arguing, stalling, crying. I don't know if it's because it's now more of a game to him, that he's in more in control racing against the clock instead of us giving directions to him, or he's scared he's going to lose his beloved blanket for the night if he the timer goes off and he does not have the task done.

Tonight he was totally goofing around when I asked him to put on his pjs. I was starting to get mad and he said set the timer Mommy, I did and those pjs were on in under a minute.

 

[rt2dz]

I have three kids and a policy that any fight I get into, I'll win. My kids, even the 2yo, know this. But the kicker is, there are a lot of things that I just won't fight about because in the long run, it isn't worth it. For example, my almost 4yo is still wearing the same clothes I gave him to put on Thursday morning. He has changed is underware and his socks, but not his shirt and pants. I don't care what he sleeps in as long as he is sleeping. We were at home cleaning all day yesterday, so fine. I have already told him that he will have to choose new clothes today.

So, I guess my basic question is, is this that important? Will it hurt you that if she resists that you say OK and let it go? Kids can play just as well inside as out. You might find that if you cut down on the number of times you force the outside play, she'll be more willing. It could be the clothes, but I really think it might be the activity. I have a neice who does not like to be outside at all. Her excercise comes from indoor activities--dance and she is a competive ice skater (at an indoor rink). Your DD can get the benefits of the sun by sitting near a window reading or coloring.

 

[Aliceacc]

I agree. I think this is mostly about child having a personality type that doesn't match that of her parents.

Sure, kids need some outside time. But I'm one of those people who isn't "outdoorsy"-- or at least wouldn't be in the winter in Montreal. I'm in my glory in the summer in NY-- bring on that "hot, hazy, humid" weather that everyone else gripes about. But I would be fighting against getting dressed to go outside to play in the cold as well.

 

[bartleby1]

Thanks for all the input...no, it isn't the only time she is bratty, but the hardest one because I feel if we send her to her room she "won". Other tantrums get immediate consequences (end of playdate, loss of TV privilege, loss of a toy she enjoys (temporary))...It just is disheartening because DH and I are very outdoorsy and find it difficult to constantly deal with her reluctance to go out!!!

One statement in this paragraph struck me as part of the problem.

I feel if we send her to her room she "won".

It is not about winning or losing. It is all about control. You are trying to deal with her issue of not feeling like she has control by trying to control her MORE. Don't get me wrong, there are times that I send my children to the couch to think about their behaviour (I don't send them to their rooms because I can't see what they are doing in there), but, it is many times their choice. For example, they can end their fit or go to the couch until they have gained control. If they can't end their fit, they must choose the couch. It is still allowing them to choose. Sometimes they can gain immediate control and move on, other times they choose the couch since they can't calm themselves down. I always make sure to stress the fact that they are making a choice between good behaviour and bad.

Sending her to her room just leaves her feeling like she has less control and will make her more frustrated. The biggest part of parenting is teaching our children how to make choices and in turn it really does make our job easier in the long run. Just as others have stated, it is all about giving them choices. Sure, you can physically struggle with your child to get her dressed, but wouldn't it be easier for HER to make the choice to get herself dressed? She may just need to be reminded of the fun you all can have once she is dressed. I refuse to physically struggle with my children. They will eventually be too strong to do that! They need to make the right CHOICE, not do things because they are physically forced to. She may not want to go outside EVERY day, especially if it is cold. Forcing her to do so may just make her more reluctant to do it. Perhaps if you allow her to choose to stay in sometimes she will be more ready to go out on other days. Also, if she makes a poor choice, allow her to deal with the consequences. My youngest (and most stubborn) just turned 3 and didn't want to put her coat on one morning when I had to take my older two to the bus. I very calmly told her that she would be very cold if she didn't put it on but she still refused. So, again, very calmly I told her that it was her choice but she would be cold without it. She told me she didn't need it so I suggested we bring it "just in case". Well, two steps out the door she decided she needed it. Much easier to make her come to the decision on her own than to physically struggle with a screaming kid.

Good luck! Oh, and by no means would I consider your daughter bratty! Just a normal kid searching for a little control over her life! Perfectly normal!