OT-Long-Help with DD8 Mean Teacher

[jojosmom]

I know this is off topic, but my dd8 2nd grade teacher is extremely mean and YELLS at the children for many reasons, including not understanding what she teachs them. On the second day of school she told my daughter that "I don't have time to deal with you. I'll let your next second grade teacher deal with you" She pinched a child's face. The superintenant was brought in and she was "written up". Many many parents have complained to the principal, and eventually an "aid" was placed in the room. But, the aid is apparently never there. I spoke with the principal a few months back and she promised to look into it. Well, very recently something happened where another child refused, hysterically crying to go into the classroom. He still won't tell his mom what happened. My daughter claims "I dont remember".

Well, the yelling because the children don't understand the work continues. She yelled at a little boy because he was crying!. I have another meeting with the principal this week.

My question is, who, after the principal should I go to? Directly to the Superintendant? ANy suggestions are appreciated

 

[hopesmommy]

I am sorry your child has to deal with this teacher. She should never have been called a teacher! My 2 DSIS are teachers and no matter how frustrated they are with a child, they would NEVER yell at them or say nasty comments like that.

I would recommend you call the principal and tell him you are going to cancel the meeting and go straight to the superintendant! You have given the principal enough time to handle this problem and it did not work. Or the other option is have a joint meeting with the principal and superintendant. I would not put off talking with someone other than the principal. The teacher obviously has scared the children so bad they won't talk about class.

I hope you get this teacher removed from class. (Go ahead and flame me. I don't care. NOONE should treat children this way!)

 

[jojosmom]

Thank you for your quick response. I'm thinking about inviting the superintendant in.

 

[DisneyDotty]

hopesmommy: No flames from this former teacher!
jojosmom: this teacher's behavior is reprehensible, inexcusable, and an embarrassment to teachers everywhere. She needs to be removed from the classroom. NOW. If the principal isn't doing her job in getting this sorry-excuse of an educator out of the classroom, you need to go over her head. Get other parents involved--go to the School Board. Call the Superint. Demand action immediately.
Good luck! This is absolutely awful.

 

[tw1nsmom]

I would definitely bring the superintendent into the meeting. It's obvious that they've seen the behavior you're decribing, or they wouldn't have agreed to the aid (she's probably not there because the teacher scares her!). It is very troubling that the children seem to now be holding back info about what is happening in the classroom. At this point, if it were my child, I would insist that they either remove the teacher or my daughter from the class. I would also encourage the other parents to do the same.

 

[Schmeck]

You are going to need more proof than what the kids are saying - you need to get another adult in that room as a witness. Or did you witness some of the abuse? Can you get the aide to tell of things he/she has witnessed?

I'm not saying this did not happen - obviously, something is going on, but 8 yr olds are not reliable witnesses (your daughter already has proven this - 'I don't remember') and you really need dates and times of the situations to make your case.

I wish you the best of luck - it is very hard to get a teacher dismissed, although regualtions are being changed to make it a tiny bit easier.

 

[paigevz]

What has the teacher said about her yelling/pinching/abusive comments when you talk with her?

I think she should be in the meeting with the principal. Then, if it doesn't go the way you want, get other parents together, talk to the Superintendent, and ask for a meeting with him/her and all the concerned parents, the principal, the teacher, and the aide.

 

[swillis]

I would insist on coming into the classroom and observe. Unannounced. If this is discouraged I would insist my daughter be placed into another classroom. The only way you can know for sure what is going on is to see it for yourself.
I honestly felt sick to my stomach reading your post. I'm not one of those moms that gets overly involved in my children's school life. I usually give my kid's teachers the benefit of the doubt, and remember from my own childhood that it was always the "Teacher's fault" and never my own.

But this is very disheartening. If what your daughter said is true then this teacher has no business working with children in any way. I don't understand why she would even want to work with kids, as she clearly has no patience for them. UGH.

Good luck, keep us posted...my heart goes out to your daughter

 

[tracilicious]

As someone who had a few elementary school teachers like the one you described (one teacher KICKED a child!) I agree that if they won't get the teacher out, I would demand that my child be placed in another classroom. Kids can feel so powerless in those situations. I never told my mom about my horrible teachers because I knew she would make a big fuss and I was embarrassed about it. Thank goodness that your daughter told you!

 

[HiddenMickey3018]

I am so sorry you are going through that with your child. A few years ago, my DS at the time he was 6, he had a teacher that had a few "issues" with her life outside the classroom, and she managed to bring in her problems into her class. My child was in the first grade at the time, he would come home saying that the teacher was yelling and calling kids stupid in class. She at one time grabbed a child by the arm forcing her into the hall. Remind you that this is a first grade class! We complained to the principal many times, but nothing happened. A majority of his school mates were also in the cub scouts with my son. So we mother's made an agreement that we were going to do something about this ourselves. I took Monday. At 9:00am I went to my child's class, and sat there...all day, basically daring the woman to go there with any kind of attidude to any child. The next day, another mom sat in class, and so on. The word got around school pretty quickly. The teacher was threatening to quit. In my town, on our local news station has a thing if you have a problem, and you can't get it resolved, you contact the news station, and they basically, in their own way, resolve it, ON THE AIR!!! When the school board found out that we were talking to the news channel, they quickly apologized, and the teacher was let go of her postion. Us mom's were sick and tired of being sick and tired, our children were really stressed out and upset by this woman, she had to go. It's true what they say, sometimes, it does take a village!

The only advice I can give you is stay active in this. You send you children to school everyday thinking that they are going to be safe and learn, you should not have to worry that anyone is scaring them especially a teacher in any way. Please don't let this drop, stay on top of this issue. Also remember that everyone has a boss. If the school principal does nothing, go over their heads! Even after they fired this lady, I made it a point to be more active with my kid's school. I would just "pop" up at the school in the middle of a school day. The way I saw it, I am not raising my children in a hostle enviroment, and I was not going to send him to one! Be Strong & Good Luck!

 

[stahshee]

WOW when I was a kid back in the 80's I had teachers pull my hair, tape my mouth ect. I never told. If i were you I would demand that something be done and I would want my daughter out of that class. High tail it out of there children are very honest!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Pull your kid out of that class immediately!!! If she "doesn't remember" it could be because she was threatened not to talk. If this woman is as abusive as you say who knows what she has told these poor kids. I hope you can get this resolved as soon as possible. I would go straight to the top. You tried it the principal's way and obviously nothing was done. Keep us posted.

 

[shoegirl1020]

Thank you everyone. You all had some great suggestions, such as staying in the classroom. I was in a rush to post the intital thread so I probably should have added that I was actually afraid to confront the teacher for fear of how she would treat my child. Unfortunately I, like most of hte moms I know, work full-time or have other committments, but I think I just might re-arrange my schedule to allow me to be there in the am's for a while.

I should also add that there is a rumor around school that she is having personal problems (divorce). I would like to think that she wouldn't let that interfere with her job, but I've noticed that she has missed a lot of school lately and once she returns she is what my daughter calls "extremely large". The small, medium and large are terms my daughter uses to explain the teachers behavoir during the day.
Finally, my daughter doesn't confide these things in me. I have to ask her specific questions and then lie a small bit (the principal called me today to ask why Mrs F crumbled your work). although I think she is catching on to me

 

[Schmeck]

You have to be very careful how you approach this, because it could backfire - even asking your kids 'leading' questions might make whatever they say invalid if this is brought to court, etc. You need real proof - adult witnesses, dates, times, etc. This teacher could turn around and sue you all for defamation if you are not careful!

Get a copy of the school district's teacher's contract if you can, to see what the process is in their union for this situation so that you have a better idea of how to approach the principal and superintendent. There are certain key words in most contracts that make them sit up and take notice.

Make sure you are not the only parent at these meetings - you need back-up to verify what was said. Take notes on everything! And good luck!

 

[HiddenMickey3018]

Thank you everyone. You all had some great suggestions, such as staying in the classroom. I was in a rush to post the intital thread so I probably should have added that I was actually afraid to confront the teacher for fear of how she would treat my child. Unfortunately I, like most of hte moms I know, work full-time or have other committments, but I think I just might re-arrange my schedule to allow me to be there in the am's for a while.

I should also add that there is a rumor around school that she is having personal problems (divorce). I would like to think that she wouldn't let that interfere with her job, but I've noticed that she has missed a lot of school lately and once she returns she is what my daughter calls "extremely large". The small, medium and large are terms my daughter uses to explain the teachers behavoir during the day.
Finally, my daughter doesn't confide these things in me. I have to ask her specific questions and then lie a small bit (the principal called me today to ask why Mrs F crumbled your work). although I think she is catching on to me

Keep talking to your girl. This is good practace for those future mom daughter talks that you know we all have to have sooner or later. Your DD will see that you are trying to get down to the point where this teacher is concerned. My DS's teacher was having problems of her own, but the way I saw it, we all have problems. But when you walk into the work place, you need to put it aside. She is a teacher, if she has a hard time dealing with kids, then she is in the wrong profession. Take a long lunch one day, or try to get off early, pop up one day, see how differently things change, when the teachers see what you are capable of doing!

 

[luvdiz2]

I had the same sort of siutation with my grade 3 DS last year. His teacher was just plain MEAN. The week before Christmas he was told that if he didn't finish his work, he would not be able to watch the Christmas movie in class that afternoon. Naturally, as he has some learning difficulties, he did not finish it. She put this 8 year old boy out in the hallway with his desk and chair, while the entire class watched the movie.

This was just one instance of what she did. Other parents of boys that I spoke to had problems with her, as well as one who had both her son and daughter have this teacher. The daughter had no problems, but her son was treated badly.

I tried the Vice-Principal, when that didn't work, I went to the Principal (he pretended to do something), the Superintendent of the area, the head of the Special Education Department. Nothing was ever done properly.

Although it is not an option for you, I decided this was not the sort of place I wanted my two sons. I withdrew them this year and we are homeschooling. The difference in both the boys, most especially the older is incredible. They enjoy learning, although in different ways than the school allows.

They wanted me to drug him to suit them. Instead I brought him home where he is loved and is relearning how to love to learn.

luvdiz

 

[kikakeko]

When my dd was having problems along these lines I would "play 20 questions' such as ...

What was the greatest thing that you learned today?

What made you happy today?

What made you sad?

Name three of the best things that happened to day?

Name three of the worst?

How did that make you feel?



That might get you to draw out more details. My dd was having more problems with peers than her teacher. Some days I knew I needed to dig a little deeper to find out what was really wrong. Ask lots of questions and talk talk talk... Try to find out if your school district has a mediator or along the likes of one. DROP BY UNEXPECTED is one of the best things you can do the tag team effect that the other poster stated is a great idea. Good luck!

 

[camdensmom]

Coming from a teacher:

• First and foremost STOP lying to your daughter. You are putting her in a very bad situation. Kids talk. She will go to school and tell others, "My mom said _______." Kids are very into 'calling each other out' and will actually ask the principal in your daughters presence if it is true (I teach 2nd grade). It is not fair to her to be labeled a liar when she is only repeating what you've told her. Children should be able to trust their parents and she will eventually know you have lied to her.
  
• DOCUMENT! Keep a written record of everything. This includes things your daughter has told you (remember kids embellish though), things you have witnessed, things you have experienced first hand. Do not play the he said/she said game. Keep it factual. Also, keep a written record of your attempts to fix the problem. This includes notes to the teacher, conversations with the principal as well as correspondance with him.
  
• Rally the troops. Get other parents together and discuss this. Let them voice what their children have told them. It is not your place to approach the principal and say, "Michael said, ____" because you lose credibility. There is safety in numbers and trust me...they will respond to large groups of parents.
  
• Go straight to the top. Set up a meeting with the Supt. and encourage others to do the same. Make it very clear that you have spoken with the principal and that he has not been responsive. He will be MUCH more responsive if his reputation is at stake.
  
• Sadly, teachers are protected. We had a teacher in our district who was terrible. Not mean by any stretch, just not effective. 89% of the incoming 2nd grade parents requested that their child NOT be placed with her. She had the class coloring all day and displayed graded spelling tests for open house. Yet, because she was tenured and had the union supporting her she stayed until retirement. Be prepared that your daughter will most likely be in her care for the remainder of the year unless you pull her from the class. Don't let that discourage you though. I would still advocate for her and the other children, but do so in a diplomatic manner.

Good luck!

 

[eeyore45]

This very thing has happened in our school district...

Due to the contract, they had no solution. The teacher stayed, but had to "keep her door opened" 2nd graders were wetting their beds!! It was horrible... and the super refused to make changes - period!! The kids placements stayed, the only recourse was to take them out of the district and place them in private schools - ie religious, and 5 parents did!

One parent sent her child in with a tape recorder in her backpack recording the verbal abuse etc... NOTHING CHANGED!!

I was horrified. My kids didnt get that teacher, and when it came time for my youngest to enter school, I figured out a way not to get her in that school - yep she's still there, but like someone else mentioned the year with the biggest problems she had had severe home problems and brought them to school - it was horrific!!

That being said, my dd is in 3rd grade now, and her teacher isnt this bad this extreme, but she is very cruel, she plays "Mind games"... my dd is too smart for her own good, she stands up to adults, can seem very 'disrespectful'... I know, my dd is not perfect... but I find it interesting how the 3rd grade teacher 'deals with it' on dd grades, report cards etc, my dd cannot get 100% - she has grades that are entirely subjective!! Seriously her math problems she gets the right answer, but "cant explain it correctly" so dd gets zeros!! For her "basic math facts" dd gets an F - yet can handle 5 and 6 digit multiplication times 5 and 6 digit - rarely making mistakes - but gets an F for basic math facts?? Well you see she cant pass this teachers "timed" tests...

At home DH calls the teacher "the soul less one" - its hard to take the teacher seriously, and yes I've written, and spoken with the principal, and I realized it made it worse for dd, so I backed off... I ignore this teacher. I know this teacher, and I know she is prejudiced. Its so apparent, but it is welcomed because this teacher is a minority teacher, and for the most part does "good" work... the super loves reporting that he has hired minorities. So I try hard to just ignore her. And try and give dd skills to cope.

Its not easy.

 

[tw1nsmom]

This thread saddens me so much. DH and I were just talking about teacher qualifications the other day. While I do think that teachers should have to show competency in the subject matter they teach, I think it's far more important that they be screened for compassion and compatibility with the teaching profession. Just because a person is a brilliant scientist doesn't mean that they are capable of teaching children science (you can substitute any subject in this theory).

So many teachers are just fantastic. It does them a disservice to allow these other people (sadists?) to call themselves teachers. There has to be some solution. In college, students write evaluations on their professors. I think this is something school districts might want to look into. Obviously, a teacher shouldn't be fired over a few negative student evaluations. But...if almost every child and parent gives an extremely negative review, maybe there cold be a process by which the school investigates and supervises the teacher. If the complaints have merit, and if they continue for more than a year (or are severe), then the teacher should be dismissed regardless of tenure. In no other profession (that I can think of), are people allowed to treat their customers/clients/public with such contempt (again, there are very very few teachers that do this).