OT - I can't believe that PayPal allows this !!

[nunzia]

So many errors posted by ebay sellers in this thread. So many cases where difference in interpretation is being used to basically call buyers stupid.

nunzia--Some sellers offer a refund for any reason, including "buyers remorse" Some not as described claims might be better categorized by others as "buyers remorse". You don't always have to refund shipping costs.

PurpleDog--You made some comment about your "buyer" not knowing what he was talking about when he said he would dispute the charge with VISA. He has 60 days from the statement date. Could be as many as 90 days. I agree his complaint is "buyers remorse". I agree with your decision to refund rather then go through the process of fighting it, and probably losing.

horseshowmom I'm not 100% sure but I think posting another persons ebay user name violates DIS rules. I don't think the OP is misstating any facts but the fact is the "buyer" isn't here giving his side.

Lemonademouth--Not sure why you lost your claim. Seller generally has to prove the items was delivered.

Ellone--Go to the PO and tell them you want to mail a 1lb package first class. You'll told you're being given a complimentary upgrade to priority mail. That's now part of the first class rate structure. At one point it was actually part of the first class rate charts. The higher weights just showed the priority mail rates. I think they stopped that when priority mail changed to distance based rates. A buyer isn't stupid just because they don't use the exact same terms you use, or even if they use some terms wrong. Your buyer was shortsighted in not paying for faster shipping. Not everyone knows, or believes, how slow media shipping can be. If you were able to ship it fast enough for Christmas delivery great. If not too bad. Buyer wasn't wrong for at least asking. Sometimes tone doesn't come across right in emails.

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON ANY OF THE ABOVE POSTERS, but Sellers are quick to complain about buyers who don't know, or follow policy. Sellers aren't perfect.

AT LEAST WE'RE NOT hearing from sellers who don't understand why a buyer who doesn't buy insurance gets a refund if the item is lost in the mail.

From Ebay site:
We require eBay sellers to comply with our resolution process. Sellers permit us to make a final decision, in our sole discretion, on any case that a buyer opens with eBay under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy. For seller unresolved cases, we will refund the buyer for the full cost of the item (including any applicable sales tax) and the original shipping, and we will require the seller to reimburse us for the amount due the buyer.

I read this as that I am required to refund original shipping. Also in HUGE letters on Ebay site:
EBAY Buyer Protection Covers Your Purchase Price + Original Shipping

and this on Buyers Remorse:

A good faith dispute does not exist if you improperly claim that the seller has not fulfilled the transaction, if you claim you never received an item when in fact you did, if you refuse to accept shipment of the item (and eBay didn't end the listing), or if you claim the item was not as described but the seller can prove otherwise.


Moreover, a good faith dispute does not include buyer's remorse (that is, the item delivered was as described in the item description, but you no longer want the item regardless of the reason). However, even in a case of buyer's remorse the buyer may open a case and eBay may refund the buyer and receive reimbursement from the seller if at any point after the sale is completed, the seller agrees in writing through eBay Messages to provide a refund upon receiving a return from the buyer.


So, nothing is ever absolute, but if you cherish your good feedback, which I do, it's easier to give them what they want and then block them from bidding on your items again (which I also do).

 

[nunzia]

It is right there on the listing page. If you offer the 14 day refund option in your listing, there is a drop down that asks who will pay for the shipping. You can also add comments right there. It's why I quit offering free shipping b/c I couldn't figure out how to prove the cost in a refund situation w/o a buyer balking. I just type that the buyer will pay for return shipping. The entire purchase price less the original shipping cost will be refunded upon receipt of the item in the same condition it was sent. Easy Peasy. I know people who even charge a 20% restocking fee.

I DO have that in my listings..that BUYERS pay RETURN shipping costs..it is the Original shipping costs I am talking about. And, as I said, there have been times I cave and also pay reutrn shipping just to save my feedback.

 

[pixiewings71]

Okay - you are going beyond mean and being rude by posting their user name! That is against DIS policies and that is just NOT nice at ALL! SO WHAT if they purchased another laptop - at least it had the more RAM that they were concerned about! Sheesh. Just give them back their money, block them, and be done with it. Stewing over it is just making you more angry and is so unnecessary - you HAVE to give the money back anyway so why not do it and be done with it.

And you really should edit your last post to remove their user name - that is uncalled for.

You should edit your post as well, the quote shows the buyers name. Just so you know

I want to thank everyone for listening to me vent; it's actually been helpful.

I was just hoping that someone would say yeah Phil, you were screwed over and that sucks. =)

Y'all are right; life's too short to get my blood pressure elevated over a stupid laptop.

I plan to refund the money to the guy tonight after I get home. I will wait until after the holiday season, and try and resell it.

Hey Phil, sorry you got screwed over.

I've refunded the gentleman his money.

End of story. Game over.

Thanks to everyone for your insight and opinions. I wish everyone a Happy Holiday season, and a healthy and prosperous 2013.

Glad you got it resolved, I wouldn't have sold it to him either. LOL Merry Christmas to you and best wishes for 2013!

Worst advice ever. The customer is NOT always right. The customer is often a moron.

There was one time I filed against a seller, I ordered some pins (Disney pins) and never received them. I contacted him to let him know, he said he contacted the PO and they showed as delivered (but he didn't provide tracking to me), I told him again I didn't have them so he said he was going to "have the PO research further", he didn't get back to me until after I could file with Paypal, I contacted him consistently through eBay but he wasn't responding. Finally I filed a dispute with my credit card company and because he couldn't prove to them that he had delivered they credited my account. He had the nerve to send me a message via eBay saying he was really disappointed in me and how I handled the issue, I asked him how exactly I was supposed to handle it, that I had been in touch with him regularly with no response so I finally handled it how I thought was best. I didn't hear back and I did block him. Sometimes buyers are 100% honest and the sellers are not. I've also sold but it caused me a lot of anxiety so I stopped. LOL

 

[horseshowmom]

So many errors posted by ebay sellers in this thread.

horseshowmom I'm not 100% sure but I think posting another persons ebay user name violates DIS rules. I don't think the OP is misstating any facts but the fact is the "buyer" isn't here giving his side.

Right, that's why my post was as follows:

I don't really understand why it's mean to post the user name of somebody who cost them a definite sale (the other poster was only $1 less than the winning bidder). .......... (I do understand that it's apparently against Dis rules so it should be removed, but I still don't see it as being "mean and rude".)

ETA: No offense taken, I understand what you're saying. I just think the buyer should have made very sure of what they were buying. The question should have been asked prior to bidding rather than after.

 

[PurpleDog]

Thanks again to everyone, and a tip of the hat and smile to horseshowmom, pixiewings 71 and DianeV.

For what it's worth, I've both emailed and snail mailed eBay and formally proposed that they change thier rules for items that are sold for more than $250. Buyers need to be as careful making a purchase decision over $250 on eBay as they would at WalMart or Nordstroms. My proposal is simple: if you want to cancel a transaction before the item arrives, just don't want the item, or are found to have opened a meritless "not as described" dispute case, then you will lose the ability to buy and/or sell on eBay for 60 days.

I'm sure some eBay experts will find some flaw in this idea - and that's OK. But until eBay realizes that the buyer and seller need to be treated equally, then eBay will continue to lose sellers, and therefore money.

I invite any and all comments !

 

[richmond282]

I DO have that in my listings..that BUYERS pay RETURN shipping costs..it is the Original shipping costs I am talking about. And, as I said, there have been times I cave and also pay reutrn shipping just to save my feedback.

I AM talking about original shipping costs. I can't remember how to post a pic of the screen shot I took, but here is what my listings say:


Return policy




After receiving the item, contact seller within


Refund will be given as


Return shipping




14 days


Money back


Buyer pays return shipping





Return policy details




Item must be in the same condition. Buyer should contact me before returning item so I know to look for the package. Refunds will be issued less the shipping cost upon receipt of returned item.


I realize if they file a claim this is moot, but just for buyer's remorse, yes, you CAN subtract the cost of original shipping. I also know people who charge a 20% restocking fee w/o any problem.

 

[cornflake]

Thanks again to everyone, and a tip of the hat and smile to horseshowmom, pixiewings 71 and DianeV.

For what it's worth, I've both emailed and snail mailed eBay and formally proposed that they change thier rules for items that are sold for more than $250. Buyers need to be as careful making a purchase decision over $250 on eBay as they would at WalMart or Nordstroms. My proposal is simple: if you want to cancel a transaction before the item arrives, just don't want the item, or are found to have opened a meritless "not as described" dispute case, then you will lose the ability to buy and/or sell on eBay for 60 days.

I'm sure some eBay experts will find some flaw in this idea - and that's OK. But until eBay realizes that the buyer and seller need to be treated equally, then eBay will continue to lose sellers, and therefore money.

I invite any and all comments !

Interesting you cite Nordstrom - they're known for their insane dedication to customer service and beyond liberal returns policy. People have to be less careful about that at Nordstrom than perhaps anyplace else.

In general, they will take back anything, at any time, for any reason. I don't think they even have a written return policy (I don't think I've ever seen one on a receipt? Maybe just never noticed.) because they're known for being so dedicated to customer service. They say if you don't have a receipt it must be something they sell, however, people have returned things to Nordstrom that the store doesn't sell, and had the return granted. I recall some tv show trying to see how far they'd go, using a hidden camera, ages ago - a guy "returned" a shirt clearly either Barney's or Bloomie's or whichever's house brand, in their box, all tags from the other store and everything. The clerk who took it back was interviewed after and said basically that's how they roll.

So... I don't think you want it to be like Nordstrom, heh.

 

[PurpleDog]

Thanks cornflake; let's pretend I said WalMart and Sears ! =)

 

[nunzia]

I AM talking about original shipping costs. I can't remember how to post a pic of the screen shot I took, but here is what my listings say:


Return policy




After receiving the item, contact seller within


Refund will be given as


Return shipping




14 days


Money back


Buyer pays return shipping





Return policy details




Item must be in the same condition. Buyer should contact me before returning item so I know to look for the package. Refunds will be issued less the shipping cost upon receipt of returned item.


I realize if they file a claim this is moot, but just for buyer's remorse, yes, you CAN subtract the cost of original shipping. I also know people who charge a 20% restocking fee w/o any problem.

I guess you can..with that option. However, Ebay..AS USUAL talks out of both sides of their mouth and states very clearly to BUYERS that refunded original shipping costs are part of their buyer protection. Like returns..WE can say we don't take them. but EBAY will supercede that.
We can do a lot of things and argue with the buyer about what's right or not, but what it comes down to is that they ..the buyer..are the only ones with power to mess up our feedback score and seller ratings. So..just like retail stores..it is easier to reward bad behavior and give them what they want. That said, 99% of my buyers are great, so I chose to just write off the difficult ones.

 

[richmond282]

I guess you can..with that option. However, Ebay..AT USUAL talks out of both sides of their mouth and states very clearly to BUYERS that refunded original shipping costs are part of their buyer protection. Like returns..WE can say we don't take them. but EBAY will supercede that.
We can do a lot of things and argue with the buyer about waht's right or not, but what it comes down to is that they ..the buyer..are the only ones with power to mess up our feedback score and seller ratings. So..just like retail stores..it is easier to reward bad behavior and give them what they want. That said, 99% of my buyers are great, so I chose to just write off the difficult ones.

Me too. I've only had a handful of hateful sneaky buyers. I just try to let it roll of my back and move on. They are, or course, immediately blocked.

 

[G8r4evr]

That is so very true! I've had some great buyers, but then I've had some really bad ones. Unfortunately these bad buyers really take the fun away from selling on eBay. Many dishonest people using eBay, and it's not fair to honest sellers that basically can do nothing about it.

If ebay would enforce the NPB rules they set up, it might be better though. After I believe 3 NPBs, the user is supposed to be suspended. Well, if you read the "forced" positive feedback on some of these Non paying bidders, it is obvious ebay isnt enforcing that rule. Just the other day, I had a NPB, no contact from the, they just never paid. I went to check their FB comments to see if anyone else had any problems...and while the FB was positive, the comments were not. There were 6 comments from sellers stating this was a non paying bidder and they had to open a case with ebay....yet the buyer was still bidding away on my auction. A few weeks earlier, the same issue. So frustrating.

 

[DianeV]

I totally agree with that. They must not be doing the 3 NPB anymore. I have a buyer who promised to pay for 3 items twice and never did. I left the positive with 'never paid' and there are 2 other sellers with multiple items who have done the same thing. This buyer won 66 items in less than a month, is brand new and was still bidding when some of the postiive negs were left. Even sent an email report to ebay about this person and they are still a registered user....I guess buyers can do anything these days

 

[horseshowmom]

I totally agree with that. They must not be doing the 3 NPB anymore. I have a buyer who promised to pay for 3 items twice and never did. I left the positive with 'never paid' and there are 2 other sellers with multiple items who have done the same thing. This buyer won 66 items in less than a month, is brand new and was still bidding when some of the postiive negs were left. Even sent an email report to ebay about this person and they are still a registered user....I guess buyers can do anything these days

Good grief! That's ridiculous and totally unfair to sellers.

 

[ellone]

I totally agree with that. They must not be doing the 3 NPB anymore. I have a buyer who promised to pay for 3 items twice and never did. I left the positive with 'never paid' and there are 2 other sellers with multiple items who have done the same thing. This buyer won 66 items in less than a month, is brand new and was still bidding when some of the postiive negs were left. Even sent an email report to ebay about this person and they are still a registered user....I guess buyers can do anything these days

You can set your buyer requirements to block someone like that. My block is 2 NPB in a 6 month period - it's not perfect but does help.

 

[DianeV]

I do have it set for that but this buyer didnt start accumulating NPBs until recently after they aleady won a bunch of stuff

You can set your buyer requirements to block someone like that. My block is 2 NPB in a 6 month period - it's not perfect but does help.

 

[Lewisc]

Buyers need to be as careful making a purchase decision over $250 on eBay as they would at WalMart or Nordstroms.
I invite any and all comments !

This is a joke? Your complaint is with a buyer who wanted to cancel a purchase a few hours after the auction ended. Before you shipped. Walmart.com accepts returns for at least 90 days. Nordstroms is known for extraordinary customer service. The only comparison I can think of is a purchase you made out of the trunk of someone's car. An analogy to your situation is a customer who changes his mind after paying but before leaving the store. I suspect even a dollar store would agree to a refund but OK I'll give you that possibility. A garage sale, craigslist sale and dollar store are the examples of companies which offer return policies similar to what you're looking for.

I'd switch entirely to Craigslist, but CList seems to consist mainly of people that want to offer you a low ball price for whatever it is you have listed.

Exactly. You don't get it both ways. You either get the best price or you get to have the best (from the point of the seller) polices.

You don't get to charge Nordstom's pricing but give dollar store service.

 

[tlkgt76]

I agree, this doesn't seem fair. A purchase is a commitment, just like you describing the product correctly is a commitment.

I've got a situation with a girl that outbid another person on an item back on 12/16 and never paid. Mine was her second transaction. I've sent two messages and she hasn't replied. Grrrr.... It was a really cheap sale and I'm not missing out on anything, plus I will relist, however its the principle of it all. Like I said, putting a bid in is a commitment!

Good luck!!

 

[horseshowmom]

I agree, this doesn't seem fair. A purchase is a commitment, just like you describing the product correctly is a commitment.

I've got a situation with a girl that outbid another person on an item back on 12/16 and never paid. Mine was her second transaction. I've sent two messages and she hasn't replied. Grrrr.... It was a really cheap sale and I'm not missing out on anything, plus I will relist, however its the principle of it all. Like I said, putting a bid in is a commitment!

Good luck!!

Ebay can be annoying. I bought a ring several years ago. Nobody had bid on it at all. After I bid, another bidder started bidding as well. They kept bidding until they were the top bidder, and I stopped bidding (ran the bid up about $50 - $75 extra).

Just before the auction ended, their bid was withdrawn, and I wound up as the winner. Now keep in mind, only their last bid was withdrawn so I still had to pay the highest I had bid. In my opinion it was shill bidding. If they were going to allow them to withdraw their bid, ALL of their bids should have been withdrawn leaving me to pay the original price.

I contacted ebay and told them exactly what had happened step by step. They pretty much told me that they saw nothing wrong with the auction.

I took the ring, but I've wished several times that I had taken it further and requested that my bid be withdrawn as well - just as a matter of principle.

 

[DianeV]

Lewisc, the thing is...this is an auction, not Walmart.com or Nordstroms. As long as ebay continues to allow auctions along with stores, when someone bids on an auction it is a binding bid. You bid you win. You control what you want to pay and you also control being able to see the pictures and read the description before you bid. this is not a case of seeing an item on walmarts website and deciding to purchase it and then changing your mind before you checkout. There is no harm to Walmart if you do that. With an ebay seller it is an incredible hassle. . This is a situation where you bid along with others and had plenty of time to read the description and even decide you dont want it before the auction ends.

This is a joke? Your complaint is with a buyer who wanted to cancel a purchase a few hours after the auction ended. Before you shipped. Walmart.com accepts returns for at least 90 days. Nordstroms is known for extraordinary customer service. The only comparison I can think of is a purchase you made out of the trunk of someone's car. An analogy to your situation is a customer who changes his mind after paying but before leaving the store. I suspect even a dollar store would agree to a refund but OK I'll give you that possibility. A garage sale, craigslist sale and dollar store are the examples of companies which offer return policies similar to what you're looking for.





Exactly. You don't get it both ways. You either get the best price or you get to have the best (from the point of the seller) polices.

You don't get to charge Nordstom's pricing but give dollar store service.

 

[Lewisc]

Lewisc, the thing is...this is an auction, not Walmart.com or Nordstroms.....

The OP is the one who made the comparison with Walmart and Norstroms.