OT: Help from parents of High Intensity kids

[Mouse House Mama]

OP- Please take what I am saying as simply my opinion based on what you have posted and nothing more.
I think that you are too enamored by the fact that your DD is smart. You keep mentioning how gifted she is. Honestly, she is still 6. It doesn't matter if she can play the violin, read 10 languages or decipher codes. She is 6. Treat her as such. When she is fresh tell her to knock it off and give her a consequence. The consequences you have chosen are not working. How on earth can a child try to use logic on you when she was told no? Why are you entertaining her logic? The answer is no. Plain and simple. We are not having a discussion about it. The end. Trying to use "logic" on you is fresh. IMO you should not be entertaining it. The reason more likely that the teachers find her whiney is because you cater to her poor attitude and let her go on and on and on about what she thinks is an injustice. Honestly- it is just being a whiner.

Was your DD actually tested for giftedness or do you just feel that she is? I am asking because many people feel their kids are highly gifted and to be honest by around age 9 most kids even out. The ones who are truly gifted will be very obvious, the ones who are not will level out and the ones who are struggling usually catch up. This is not always the case but most of the time it is. At her age kids learn in leaps and bounds.

Also, how much are you working with her on things? Are you making her schooling so intense that she has nothing but schooling and violin? Does she participate in activities with other children that require her to be a part of a group? Does she have friends her own age? Do other children want to be her friend? Does she have a good amount of free time? Basically, what does she do besides school and music?

As for your charts, cards etc. I have to admit that as an adult I was getting anxiety reading all those things. I couldn't imagine being a child and having all that. It would give me a twitch. She is a kid. I know you want to make sure your child has the best and is taught the best etc. but you still have to let her be a kid. You don't need charts and chore lists etc. You can simply ask the child to put the dishes on the table, can you make your bed, please put this in the laundry etc. IMO what you have set up seems very militant. She has to get points to watch TV? I think you are way over the top with so many of your restrictions and then you will entertain her talking back to you and call it her using logic.
I think she is 6 and acting as such. I think you (from what you have posted) need to let up a bit on your expectations of her and look for more activities that require her to be a part of a group of her peers. Stop her logic talk instantly when it starts. Why would you even argue with a 6 year old?

Good luck and try to enjoy her. Let go of your expectations and take each day as it comes.

 

[clutter]

I'm with the last two posters. I'm a really easy-going person, and I have a lot of nerves (i.e. it takes a LOT to get to my last one), but I have to tell you, I'd back talk you if I was you dd. I'm getting heartburn just reading how your dd's life is structured. Listen to those around you who are saying you are too strict. You are expecting your six year old to act like an adult. Your six year old is trying to tell you that you expect too much from her.

Re-read your posts. School. Music. Language. Laminated chore charts. Time outs in public. Time outs at home staring at a blank wall from 3 inches. For what, back talk? Meltdowns? It sure doesn't sound like your dd is running around the mall, crashing into people, swinging from the posts or stealing merchandise. What in the world could she possibly do that justifies a time out in public?

Where is there noted that she has playdates, or goes to her room to play Barbies (and not all neat and organized), goes and swings on a swingset or rides a bike? Your job as a mom is NOT to raise the perfect child. Given your dd's academic ability, I think your hardest job may be to teach your child to have fun. But she needs that.

This is a great place to get the biggest pats on the back for being the strictest mom. I know most of the other moms here will totally disagree with me. But really, is she being THAT bad?

You don not need to go into each day with power and control. You need to go into each day with love and affection and fun, and if you accomplish a few things along the way, so much the better. I know that given your daughter's giftedness, she is probably like a sponge wanting to absorb knowledge. You need to ensure that she also absorbs a love of life.

 

[AuroraBeauty]

Yes, DD was tested. Not b/c I wanted her to be but due to some other situation. The various tests are not specifically designed for 4-year olds but we had to have a psychologist do them. So, while I know DD is smart this post is one of very few (as in maybe once before) that I have openly discussed DD being 'gifted'. I did so b/c I knew that there are other parents of exceptionally and profoundly gifted kids who are dealing with similar things and I was hoping to get some insight from them, specifically, as well as other parents who have kids with similarly intense kids.

So, please pardon me for mentioning DD being smart. I am not enamored with it and while I can't change it I sometimes do wish it wasn't so b/c it is so much more effort to condense into such a short time what I thought I might have years to prepare for.

DD does things besides school and violin. She swims (regular lessons and also the summer rec team) and loves it. She's not the best and while it is frustrating to her she goes and has fun and keeps trying. She rides her bike, goes to the park, and has a playroom with an indoor monkey bars and trapeze (it's too hot here in the summer to spend lots of time outside).

We belong to a homeschool group and she plays with kids her own age in the group just fine. She has friends (boys and girls) and plays with them and makes up shows and 'normal' kid stuff. DD has lots of free time and creates things or just plays barbies or ponies. Maybe she'll do a puzzle. While there are things that require us to have some level of scheduling, I am by no means running a military school.

When we do school related work it is always in small blocks of time and we rarely spend more than 2 hours a day on it.

As for the charts/cards, I should explain that. I made really pretty cards with the responsibility on it and they are on a magnet board. I did this so that DD would be able to visually see what she needed to do and I wouldn't have to 'nag'. In our house we make the bed every day. So, instead of asking her 'did you make your bed' over and over again she sees that the card is facing forward and it's a visual cue that she needs to make her bed. Same with brushing her teeth, getting read for bed pleasantly, etc. I got this from the Kazdin Method. He talks about providing something so the kids can 'mark off' that they did something and so that it doesn't become a power struggle the child knows what needs to be done and if it's not done they don't get credit.

As for having to earn points to watch TV, it's just something I came up with. I'm not a big TV person. I can go weeks w/o watching TV. DD has one particular show she loves to watch. When she was 3 or 4 we'd read to her for awhile and then she'd watch this show. Then she wanted to skip reading and only watch the show. I love reading to DD and feel that it's a very important part of growing up. But I didn't want to make it such that reading to her was a 'necessary evil' just so she could watch her show. So, with the psychologist, I developed a point chart where by DD would get points for doing age appropriate tasks (set the table, make the bed). They are things DD normally did, but now instead of just doing them she gets points and has the opportunity to get nearly double the points in a day that she needs to have to watch her show at night. It's a behavior=consequence program, and I thought I was doing something right but maybe not.

And, while I do know that she's 6 and there are 'age appropriate' behaviors I don't think it's too much to ask DD not to swing her legs at the table if she's kicking people or flipping her shoes/slippers off and then having to crawl under the table to get them. And no, DD is not acting like a wild animal in public but, yes, I've put her in time out for continuing to talk back to me. I believe in the idea of immediacy. She would be in time-out at home so why not while out?

I made my post b/c I was frustrated at constantly feeling like I was in a battle/power struggle with DD. I never intended to come on as whining that 'boo hoo my child isn't perfect help me fix her'. I love DD immensely and while she's 6 she has other things to deal with that the average 6 year old doesn't. I can't make her have a lower IQ or the associated challenges that are often very common with gifted/high ability kids. I can't make believe me when she can't do something and she feels like a failure -- from something simple such as tying a bow for her dolls to something more complex as knowing exactly what the scientific principle is that allows a diamond to melt ice. I have a minor in English Grammar and I can't always remember what a dipthong is so when DD was first introduced to the concept and didn't know exactly what it meant, she was distraught b/c she didn't know it. DD wants to learn fencing but started crying when we went to the studio and the teacher asked her if which one she might want to start with. DD just cried that she wants to learn it all.

I'm not trying to make DD into a soldier. I grew up in a very rigid and military family. I bring a lot of that with me. But I also know how much I wish I had had the ability to do my own thing. And I know 'kids will be kids'. But I struggle with explaining everything to DD, who has an intense need to know, and just saying 'Because I'm the mom and I say so'.

I thank you all, again, so much for offering your advice and insight. I know no one is attacking me personally and I apologize if I come off defensive. But I've been told time and again to just let DD be a kid. She is a kid. She laughs, she plays, she's funny, she acts silly, she does crafts and draws and colors and makes forts.

I so appreciate knowing that I'm not the only one who gets overwhelmed with their child's behavior. I am normally the one who only sees the positive but I was feeling so overwhelmed that I didn't see it any more. Thank you for reminding me that it all comes from love.

As for vacation, it won't come soon enough. We're headed to WDW for 10 days in about 6 weeks.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think you still need to tweek the rewards chart, if she's not getting rewarded enough, because it's not effective. I grew up with a strict dad, and he nit-picked about every little thing. Dinner time was SO stressful! He also corrected every single grammatical error. Now he's doing it with my kids, and they tune him out, but it drives me nuts! Having 5 children means there is no way I can be like him - I'd go out of my mine in frustration! At the dinner table, I make a point to correct only once (chew with your mouth closed, please cut your food), and let some behaviors go.

 

[badblackpug]

Aurora,

I don't think it is too much to ask a 6.5 year old to set the table, wash her hands, dress herself and make her bed. Seriously, we add to that keep your room neat and put your laundry away and feed and water the dog. But I do find they need reminding. I also expect a certain behaviors. I expect please and thank you. I expect table manners. I don't think it is too much to expect certain manners from children, it will, after all, serve them in their adult year. ...and I correct them. "What do you say?" "What is the magic word?" "Sit up to the table." Elbows off the table." "Use your fork." "Chew with your mouth closed." "Napkin on your lap." ...etc... (as an aside, table manners are so ingrained in me I put my napkin in my lap at Mc Donalds!) I don't think this is expecting perfection, I think this is helping them to learn the right thing.

I, too, am strict. I don't allow back-talk or attitude (okay it happens, but it is dealt with) I think the problem is that your daughter is too old for time out. I think she needs more "serious" consequences. My kids would laugh at that consequence. They (and your daughter) are smart enough to know "big deal, I'll sit here for a minute, and then I'll go back to whatever I was doing...and, boy, did I piss mom off!) Up the stakes. Take away a toy, or a privilege. If you are out leave immediately and assign a punishment, but make it one that "hurts." No TV, computer, pool, whatever it is she likes. You just have to keep trying until you find the right thing.

 

[jettyspagetti]

Kudos to you for all you do for your daughter! When I was younger I always knew my mom was crazy, now that I have kids I realize what raising kids with high IQs involves! I never had any patience for my poor mother and just assumed that everyone was as capable as my sister and I. It wasn't until I was in college that I realized how much other people had to struggle to study and take tests and eventually I developed the Empathy needed to see other's points of view. I wish that I could've learned that at a younger age and maybe I wouldn't have been such a difficult kid!
Now that I am a mom to two kids that have both been tested and shown to be "gifted" I am on the other side. I homeschool my soon to be 4th grade son because his needs weren't being met at school. He had a hard time paying attention once he understood a concept and would start to look for something else to do, thus disrupting the class and everyone around him. Homeschooling has been great for him, I love doing it, but some days I think I may go crazy! the kids are always "right" and mom is always "wrong" some days
As a champion fidgeter myself, it still drives me nuts when my kids kick their legs back and forth when I am trying to explain a new concept. If you don't homeschool or teach kids you'll probably think its an over reaction but it will slowly drive you CRAZY! My son's doc said that kids whose brains work so fast sometimes need that physical movement to calm their thoughts. I've tried to get over my dislike of it
The talking back, though, man we get it bad around here sometimes. Its so hard when their arguements are logical to me too! We have had to institute zero tolerance for talking back. When my DS starts he gets a warning, if he continues, he'll lose a privledge such as a tv show or game or swim time. WE've also found that he hates being sent to the bathroom for punishemnt (we were trying to keep the kids from potty talk and were sending them for time outs in the bathroom when they would do it) so a minute in the bathroom-not in the corner or anything just standing in the door will give him a brand new attitude! Last year when the back talk reached its peak we actually cleaned out his entire room except for Science kits and books, packed everything in boxes and put em in the garage. Everyday that went by without a major attitude problem was a box earned back to his room. It only took a few weeks but when he earned everything back he was a much nicer person to be around.
My DS is also a huge planner, if he plans on using a certain marker or book, he has to have it. I've told him that if its important than he has to make sure he has it otherwise he has to be flexible. Its worked for us.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Aurora,

I don't think it is too much to ask a 6.5 year old to set the table, wash her hands, dress herself and make her bed. Seriously, we add to that keep your room neat and put your laundry away and feed and water the dog. But I do find they need reminding. I also expect a certain behaviors. I expect please and thank you. I expect table manners. I don't think it is too much to expect certain manners from children, it will, after all, serve them in their adult year. ...and I correct them. "What do you say?" "What is the magic word?" "Sit up to the table." Elbows off the table." "Use your fork." "Chew with your mouth closed." "Napkin on your lap." ...etc... (as an aside, table manners are so ingrained in me I put my napkin in my lap at Mc Donalds!) I don't think this is expecting perfection, I think this is helping them to learn the right thing.

I, too, am strict. I don't allow back-talk or attitude (okay it happens, but it is dealt with) I think the problem is that your daughter is too old for time out. I think she needs more "serious" consequences. My kids would laugh at that consequence. They (and your daughter) are smart enough to know "big deal, I'll sit here for a minute, and then I'll go back to whatever I was doing...and, boy, did I piss mom off!) Up the stakes. Take away a toy, or a privilege. If you are out leave immediately and assign a punishment, but make it one that "hurts." No TV, computer, pool, whatever it is she likes. You just have to keep trying until you find the right thing.

I agree with this post.
I also would like to add that just because she is smart in so many ways you need to let that go when it comes to everything else. Her being smart has nothing to do with her ability to have manners, control herself etc. I know you are trying so hard to work on this with your child but to be honest I think you are reading too many books about parenting instead of going with your instinct. Time outs for a child that old are not age appropriate punishment. However, when you are home and she is having a meltdown sending her to her room until she can pull herself together might be effective. If not then you need to remove yourself from the situation and ignore her behavior. I know you feel overwhelmed by her aptitude but really that has nothing to do with her being able to act appropriately. I know you don't mean it but it seems like you are making the excuse that she is so smart that you just don't get why she is not behaving etc. She is not behaving because she gets away with it in some way. Meaning, you are wondering what on earth is making her act this way instead of simply saying- "Your attitude stinks and you need to adjust it. You will not talk to me that way The end." She is acting the way she is because she can. It has nothing to do with IQ. Pretend you didn't know she had a high IQ. How would you handle her then?
I commend you for trying to work on the situation. Parenting is a lot of trial and error. We try a lot of things and hope we don't make an error!

 

[Certifiable WDW Nut]

I have two thoughts - one is sensory integration disorder. Talk to your pediatrician or psychiatrist about whether an Occupational Therapy evaluation would be in order. OT may help her learn to live with the hyper physical sensory reactions she seems to have. My oldest daughter went through it and it did wonders and for the most part it is fun.

The second is OCD. Some of the things you mentioned seem to suggest that possibility. I don't know much about it but again it might be worth a quick mention.

Good luck - I have smart kids (but nothing like your daughter) and I know at times it can be a challenge.

 

[hanutedmansionmomma]

Aunt of several spectrum, ADHD, OCD, anxious kids and elementary sped teacher here

First of all - please keep talking to other people about your DD. It will help your sanity, and we don't mind listening!!

I believe that social skills need to be explicitly taught to some kids. Some kids pick up academics with little/no instruction, but can't read others' emotions at all and know how to handle everyday situations without exploding or being inappropriate. The latter is just so important to make it in the world! Or the checkout line, for that matter.

I have begun working with the Social Thinking program at my school in my sped class to teach them how other people percieve them, expected and unexpected behaviors... it's very good...www.socialthinking.com

You sound on top of it with the things you are doing, please find some down time for you to get a break. Get yourself a sticker chart and start counting the days until your next adult only Disney trip

 

[JeMarie6]

If she thinks she is smarter than you, then put the burden on her to come up with a list of acceptable and non-acceptable behaviors and what the consequences should be. Go through the list together to tweak it, but you'd be surprised at how often kids really do understand what they should be doing and what the appropriate consequences should be. Then if she's not happy with the consequences, less of the blame gets put on you since she came up with the list.

 

[AuroraBeauty]

Homeschooling has been great for him, I love doing it, but some days I think I may go crazy! the kids are always "right" and mom is always "wrong" some days

I, too, love homeschooling. And I've had my 'I think I may go crazy if I do this much longer' days. So, I'm glad it's normal. I really appreciate your insight from not only your own personal experience growing up but also as a mom of a gifted son. I appreciate your story about being overwhelmed if he doesn't have the exact item he needs. DD is like that too and while some kids will just move on, she can't. It's an ongoing process to put things back where they belong so they are there when she wants them. I know this is a challenge as an adult (which is why my keys go on the key hanger every time!) and for a child is likely double.

Her being smart has nothing to do with her ability to have manners, control herself etc. I know you are trying so hard to work on this with your child but to be honest I think you are reading too many books about parenting instead of going with your instinct. Time outs for a child that old are not age appropriate punishment. I know you don't mean it but it seems like you are making the excuse that she is so smart that you just don't get why she is not behaving etc. She is not behaving because she gets away with it in some way. Meaning, you are wondering what on earth is making her act this way instead of simply saying- "Your attitude stinks and you need to adjust it. You will not talk to me that way The end." She is acting the way she is because she can. It has nothing to do with IQ. Pretend you didn't know she had a high IQ. How would you handle her then?
I commend you for trying to work on the situation. Parenting is a lot of trial and error. We try a lot of things and hope we don't make an error!

My husband says I read too many parenting books, too. That's funny you pointed it out too. I am a seeker of knowledge and believe that these 'experts' must know something. And I feel like I'm just wingin' it when I could be using some technique that is 'tried and true'. They give me options so that I can try and stay one step ahead. I know I explain too much to DD when it comes to her making bad choices for behavior. It's hard to stop explaining when it seems like I do that all day every day. One day I kept track of how many questions DD asked that required more than a brief explanation (as in one sentence) and by noon I was over 100 and just stopped. That's normal. From the minute she wakes up she starts with the questions -- things like how deep is Lake Baikal?, What is the average temperature of Spain in June?, What ocean mammal can breathe under water?. Seriously, she asks me this stuff as if I just know it. I don't know how I'd survive if the DSL went down! So, I'm just in the habit of explaining stuff to her even when she asks 'why not' when I've tried to correct her behavior. I guess 'because I said so' is a pretty good answer even though I hated it when I was a kid.

First of all - please keep talking to other people about your DD. It will help your sanity, and we don't mind listening!!

I have begun working with the Social Thinking program at my school in my sped class to teach them how other people percieve them, expected and unexpected behaviors... it's very good...www.socialthinking.com

Thank you for letting me know it's OK to talk about this. I feel embarrassed by it b/c it seems like I can't manage my own child. I will look in to the social thinking program. I have a family member with Asperger's so I'm somewhat familiar with how that affects the social area. DD has never been socially inappropriate. And it is one of the areas that we work on with the therapist.



I do have to say that I have so much more appreciation for what I have done to help DD thanks to you all. And I thank you for the suggestions to get her involved in creating the behavior/consequences. MJKACMOM, thanks for offering the suggestion to correct only once and be flexible enough to let some things go.

A million thanks!

 

[mjkacmom]

I
My husband says I read too many parenting books, too. That's funny you pointed it out too. I am a seeker of knowledge and believe that these 'experts' must know something. And I feel like I'm just wingin' it when I could be using some technique that is 'tried and true'. They give me options so that I can try and stay one step ahead. I know I explain too much to DD when it comes to her making bad choices for behavior. It's hard to stop explaining when it seems like I do that all day every day. One day I kept track of how many questions DD asked that required more than a brief explanation (as in one sentence) and by noon I was over 100 and just stopped. That's normal. From the minute she wakes up she starts with the questions -- things like how deep is Lake Baikal?, What is the average temperature of Spain in June?, What ocean mammal can breathe under water?. Seriously, she asks me this stuff as if I just know it. I don't know how I'd survive if the DSL went down! So, I'm just in the habit of explaining stuff to her even when she asks 'why not' when I've tried to correct her behavior. I guess 'because I said so' is a pretty good answer even though I hated it when I was a kid.

!

I have a dd who asks me questions that I wouldn't have the slightest idea what the answer is - I've learned to say "why, I don't know, why don't you google it and let me know!" She's almost 13, and when she was younger, we didn't have the internet, but now, it's great.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Just a little something to put all the books into perspective. Just what qualifies someone as being a "parenting expert?" There is no class to take that can make someone an expert at parenting. I don't care what degree they have or how many kids they tried a technique on, there is no way to be an "expert" in parenting. The best we can really be is just that- the best we can be. So don't stress yourself out worrying about what the "experts" suggest. I too love to read and I love to research things ad nauseum but as far as parenting books, they are really just advice. No different than if you asked your Mom or friend. Give yourself more credit. You can wing it and do just fine. Also, just because she asks a million questions a day doesn't mean you have to answer every single one. I am not saying to ignore your child, but you can say- "Right now we are doing XYZ- later we can look that up" and then move on. You won't be stifling her and you won't feel like you need to be the 24/7 Book of Knowledge.

 

[wickywinn]

While I wouldn't say my 7yo is exceptionally gifted he is very smart and oh so intuitive. He knows how to push those buttons and manipulate dh and I. I am also having a big problem with the backtalking. I have found keeping a bag of rags and a spray bottle of cleaning product ready for him at all times is a big incentive not to run his mouth. See how she likes cleaning the baseboards in the kitchen...I know ds7 does not enjoy it but he gets the message. The backtalking has gotten better but I don't think it's going to completely disappear ever. But my baseboards look great! His last spout off earned him the privilege of doing the ones in his bathroom. Next time he can do the master bath. Am I strict? I don't think so. i just had to get creative and find something that would get through to him. Taking away the wii for the day worked for awhile but he's mature enough now to know the wii's not going anywhere and he'll play it another day. The baseboards...oh no, that is just something he does not enjoy doing.

 

[quasar4legs]

If you google "hoagies' website there is some wonderful information for both parents and educators of gifted children. There are some great resources on the site dealing with the needs/issues etc. of raising exceptionally and profoundly gifted children.

Good luck with the homeschooling, it allowed our son to pursue his academic interests in a way that would not have been possible for him within the school system.

Cheers
Trish

 

[erinch]

AuroraBeauty:

As I read through all of this, what I kept feeling and wondering is not how your DD's life is, but how is your life? How much time, in a day -- in a week -- do you have for unstructured time to do whatever you want to do? What do you love most that is unrelated to caring for your DD or for your household, and how often to you get to do "you" things? How often do you get out with friends, or away for a walk in the woods? Lost in a book you want to read?

If I were trying to keep the schedule you are, I think I would feel like I was drowning.

I grew up as a highly gifted child, but it was in a household with an incorrigible younger brother, and a mother with many health problems, who also (I'm pretty sure) was undiagnosed or treated bipolar. I was in a different public school every single year up till grade 7. Those years were an agony I wouldn't wish on anyone. The books I had to do book reports on were uninteresting--and I'd have to go back and re-read them too. But that advantage was that I learned to live in and mix with all kinds of people, and that is an asset I took into adulthood.

When it was evident that my DS was highly gifted, ADHD, and also had catastrophic food allergies and asthma, we made the decision for him to be in the public school rather than homeschooling. Partly this was for his sake: we deemed it critical that he learn to survive in the real world--because of the health issues this really was life and death.

But part of it was that I also knew that, for me, being with him undiluted meant that I wouldn't be able to keep enough of a separate self to enjoy him, and enjoy being his mom. And if I lost the enjoyment--and the sense of play--then I knew that all was lost. Life was so grim, and he was so smart; we had to keep lightheartedness to make it through. I didn't want to turn into my mom.

Nobody on this board, without knowing you and your DD could begin to analyze what you do or don't need. But, from the outside, it sounds like you and your daughter might really need more space from each other. If there were ways to get that, maybe the time together would be more enjoyable. Not suggesting you give up homeschooling -- but when was the last time you had some real chunks of time -- in your own house--with your daughter some place else?

Along with the chore chart, and the rules and the consequences, can you also have a chart for each of you, that each of you has to do at least 5 things in a day that you really want to? A pleasure/fun/joy chart? The very best day I remember in my painful childhood is when my mom took me out of school, and we drove in to West Covina and saw the Wizard of Oz at a playhouse in the round. It was just incredible. We had lunch together and laughed and laughed, and she waited with me backstage to try to get Glinda's autograph. It was the best day we every had. What are the best days you and your DD have?

 

[Leajess99]

Re-read your posts. School. Music. Language. Laminated chore charts. Time outs in public. Time outs at home staring at a blank wall from 3 inches. For what, back talk? Meltdowns? It sure doesn't sound like your dd is running around the mall, crashing into people, swinging from the posts or stealing merchandise. What in the world could she possibly do that justifies a time out in public?

Thank you as I was worried about saying anything. I have a 6 year old dd who was placed in Gifed and talented this past year as well as an 11 year old dd who has been in GT for several years. They are still kids no matter how smart they may be. My 6 year old has meltdowns which is something the older 2 (also have 16 year old ds) did not have. She is a child and if she acts up in stores she has her choice to straighten up or we leave the store. I don't give her a time out in public. When at Disney and she had a meltdown in the Christmas store (way over stimulated) we left and went to the bathroom then to a bench to give her time to calm back down. She apologized to her sister and her aunt when it was done.

I just can't see over scheduling a child so much that she isn't even enjoying her childhood. Relax some and let her be a kid while she can. She will learn that she is not smarter than all adults or other children. Unfortunately one day it may not be a lesson she wants but pressing her to keep this pass and the high demands is going to end up making her sick. She is a little girl that needs to be treated as such.

ETA: Sorry I read on and saw where it says she does other things.

 

[billysarmywife]

My DD is almost 7, next month she will be. Anyways we have the same sorts of issues that you describe having with your DD. My DD is also high functioning academically. Socially she gets along well with her peers but when she has a choice would choose to play with children 2 to 3 years older than she is. I am guessing because they are closer to her academic level. My DD sees a play therapist and a child psychologist weekly, she also goes to a play group put on by the play therapist twice a month with children that are gifted this seems to help her let down her guard and be who she truly is...I rarely see her in such a natural state outside of when she is with this group of children....it is really pretty amazing to watch. We too had our DD tested for the whole gamete of things and she had none of them. What she does have is generalized anxiety disorder. She has melt downs over all sorts of things that are seemingly small, like tipping her chair at the table for instance is a big deal at our house. She never acts out or puts up a fuss in public because it is too embarrassing. She already works to hard to fit in and be normal so she wont do anything to mess that up in public. As parents I think sometimes we don't fully realize just how much effort they are putting forth to fit in with "normal" peers. However she feels totally comfortable with me, her brother and her father......so when the world has become too much for her all the build up ends up coming out on one of us. For the most part it has nothing to do with your parenting style, how strict or not strict you are this is just the way it works with these kids in my experience (funny thing is I am a behavioral therapist myself that works with high functioning children and their families and now I have one of my own.....always more difficult to deal with when it is your own). They understand things too well that they are not emotionally mature enough to handle and process. This became all too clear when my daughter was two almost three and her Nana died.....it was like she became consumed with death....she thought about it 24/7. She became so consumed with it that we could not go anywhere or do anything without a fight. We have a chore chart that we use, and a daily schedule that we stick to and that seems to help because then she knows what to expect. We tried using a token reward system it worked for awhile but then she just did not care any more, same thing when taking privileges away...it just doesn't really bother her.

I go see a family therapist for myself because it is really stressful raising a gifted child. I too use 1,2,3 Magic and recommend it highly....I use it with my clients as well. I would recommend having her see a child therapist or psychologist to talk to them about the possibility of generalized anxiety disorder. It is really common among gifted children....often times that is where the acting out comes in....like over the hair brushing, and things of that nature...because they are so anxious about all the things that they understand like death, natural disasters, and what have you that are normally "adult problems" but have no idea how to deal with and process those feelings emotionally that they obsess about things that they can control or things that are within their reach to control.

I am kinda rambling in this...but I hope that some of what I have said gives you some help. If nothing else I can totally relate to everything that you have said...HUGS to you because it is really exhausting and straining at times. Email me if you would like.

HUGS!!! Kristi

 

[AuroraBeauty]

I have a dd who asks me questions that I wouldn't have the slightest idea what the answer is - I've learned to say "why, I don't know, why don't you google it and let me know!" She's almost 13, and when she was younger, we didn't have the internet, but now, it's great.

DD knows about Google and has tried to find things on the internet at times. This is why she had to learn how to type (her decision). But then she gets so overwhelmed with what comes up it is overload and has at times lead to more frustration. And she doesn't trust Wikipedia b/c she has found errors in it at times (of course, that's a common problem with that site) so now she asks if I got my information from Wikipedia. What happened to being happy with a set of encyclopedia that was 15 years old?

Just a little something to put all the books into perspective. Just what qualifies someone as being a "parenting expert?" ..... Give yourself more credit. ... Also, just because she asks a million questions a day doesn't mean you have to answer every single one.

You're so right. We give lots of people the title of 'expert' and pay lots of money for their books/seminars. I've often thought of writing a book that read more like this thread -- parents who've 'been there, done that' offering advice that is real-world tested. Thanks for saying I should give myself more credit. I don't and I know I really should. I think that as DD gets older and matures she will better understand that I'm not ignoring her or intentionally not giving her information. It's probably an age-appropriate issue.

But my baseboards look great! His last spout off earned him the privilege of doing the ones in his bathroom. Next time he can do the master bath. Am I strict? I don't think so. i just had to get creative and find something that would get through to him.

I love this idea, but DD loves to clean and would be giddy with excitement to use the spray bottle and rags. But it does give me insight into how creative I can be w/o regard to how odd it might seem to an outsider. And while I'm sure some would think you're being too hard on your son (strict), to me it's not.

If you google "hoagies' website there is some wonderful information for both parents and educators of gifted children.

I have the hoagies site bookmarked. And they do have great stuff there!

As I read through all of this, what I kept feeling and wondering is not how your DD's life is, but how is your life? How much time, in a day -- in a week -- do you have for unstructured time to do whatever you want to do? What do you love most that is unrelated to caring for your DD or for your household, and how often to you get to do "you" things? How often do you get out with friends, or away for a walk in the woods? Lost in a book you want to read?

Along with the chore chart, and the rules and the consequences, can you also have a chart for each of you, that each of you has to do at least 5 things in a day that you really want to? A pleasure/fun/joy chart?

Thank you for sharing your personal information and offering more insight. I'm so glad you have that terrific memory of the Wizard of Oz. As a gifted/smart kid myself I know of the struggles that exist just to assimilate. For me there was no option besides public school. I did well b/c I didn't want to be called out as any more different than I already felt.

From an early age I was a grown up. At 7 I was taking care of my ill mother, making dinner, cleaning the house. My husband jokes that I don't know what fun really is. I am so used to taking care of other people that self-care is such a new concept for me. In college, when I could have been selfish and 'me, me, me' I worked 2 jobs and volunteered. When hedonism came knocking, I was too busy to answer the door! I have an amazing DH who really works hard to make me take time to myself. But often I sit at home in a panic and end up doing laundry or cleaning.

Self-care is something I'm working on with a counselor. I do actually schedule time during the day for 'me time'. I do have time where DD and I are physically together but she is not allowed to interrupt me doing my thing (I usually read) and I don't interrupt her doing her thing. This is an exercise to not only give me time but also to demonstrate to DD that mommies get to do things w/o being interrupted. I volunteer w/o DD and do have girls night out once or twice a month. But it's a constant struggle within myself. It was a HUGE step last year when my BFF (we've known each other since we were 6) and I went to WDW for 4 days together -- just us! I love your idea of the Joy Chart, can I steal it? When DD was little we'd play all the time. Now I feel like there is so much 'work/stuff' to do that I'm always on the go. And even though I might be cleaning the house or doing laundry, I make sure that DD isn't sucked in to my world and constantly doing, doing, doing. Really, what does it say when my drink order at Starbucks is a 'No Fun Chai' (that's what one of my former co-workers started calling it).

I don't give her a time out in public. When at Disney and she had a meltdown in the Christmas store (way over stimulated) we left and went to the bathroom then to a bench to give her time to calm back down. She apologized to her sister and her aunt when it was done.

To me, I would call this a time out. Maybe my definition of time out is different. When DD has done 'time out' in public it is often due to misbehavior while we're driving and I can't do it in the car. I give her the warnings and a few times they were ignored. So once we stopped and were in a place that was cool enough (the few times have occurred when it was hot outside and staying in the car in the heat would not be the right thing to do) I've had DD sit down by herself on a chair or bench. I don't hover. If it's a bench she was on one end and I on the other. When it was a chair, I was in a chair near her but not exactly next to her.

DD very rarely acts up in public. It's too much attention and she can't handle it so she is an amazing listener and follower of directions when we're out. My nephew has Aspergers and I have been out with my family when my nephew has exploded from overload. The looks we've gotten would pierce the skin. When DN has done this, DD has panicked b/c it draws attention to us. She knows it's just how DN is, but the negative attention scares her.

My DD is almost 7, next month she will be. Anyways we have the same sorts of issues that you describe having with your DD. My DD is also high functioning academically. Socially she gets along well with her peers but when she has a choice would choose to play with children 2 to 3 years older than she is. I am guessing because they are closer to her academic level. My DD sees a play therapist and a child psychologist weekly .... We too had our DD tested for the whole gamete of things and she had none of them. What she does have is generalized anxiety disorder. She has melt downs over all sorts of things that are seemingly small, like tipping her chair at the table for instance is a big deal at our house. She never acts out or puts up a fuss in public because it is too embarrassing. She already works to hard to fit in and be normal so she wont do anything to mess that up in public. As parents I think sometimes we don't fully realize just how much effort they are putting forth to fit in with "normal" peers. However she feels totally comfortable with me, her brother and her father......so when the world has become too much for her all the build up ends up coming out on one of us. ..... We have a chore chart that we use, and a daily schedule that we stick to and that seems to help because then she knows what to expect.

First, my gratitude to your husband for his military service! I grew up in a military family and know all too well the many sacrifices your family makes. Thank you!

Second, thank you for sharing this about your DD. Sounds too similar, but oddly comforting knowing I'm not as alone as I thought. DD sees a play therapist as well -- who is absolutely amazing and DD adores her. DD also has generalized anxiety. I've had people tell me that DD wouldn't be so 'high strung' if I'd just chill out and ease up on DD. As if I'm somehow doing this to DD. If I could take away the anxiety DD feels, I would in a new york minute. It kills me that she has to deal with these feelings and emotions, because she's just a baby. Therapy has helped so much and fortunately DD sees her therapist as her 'feelings doctor' and not as something negative. DD thinks everyone should see a feelings doctor (and she's probably right!).

My DD also gets along well with her peers but, like yours, prefers to be with the 'big girls'. Fortunately, we have friends with tween daughters who think DD is awesome.

I'm finding that DD's behavior that I struggle with isn't necessarily as bad or terrible or horrible as I imagined. Yes, it needs to be addressed. But I'm obviously taking it much more personal that it is meant to be. I've seen a lot of it as defiance with me instead of feeling comfortable enough with me to explode knowing it's safe. Now, to figure out how to separate out the "I'm only 6 and don't know what to do with all of these thoughts/feelings/emotions" from the "I'm being defiant'. As I've looked back, I now see that the few people she acts up with are people she knows won't judge her.

I appreciate you mentioning the chore chart and schedule. Everything I've learned about high ability kids talks about helping them to keep their lives in order and giving them structure and boundaries. Yet, friends and even here on this thread have said that doing this isn't allowing her just to be a kid.

I'm a planner, but I'm not unreasonable rigid (well, I don't think I am). Seriously, we have a weekly menu for dinner. Partly b/c it helps me with shopping and budgeting but it also lets DD know what's for dinner and it's not a surprise and she knows ahead of time the days she gets dessert so she won't keep asking over and over again. Maybe that's being strict or rigid, but it's how I work. I make lists, I plan. But I don't think I'm inflexible. If something doesn't get done then there's always another day. Yes, there are always those things that MUST get done but that's called prioritizing not rigidness (at least to me).


To all of you who have offered advice and support, insight and suggestions, I appreciate it so much. It is so much easier to talk about the 'adorable moments', but this discussion has really helped me. I hope it has helped others too. Thank you all for helping me to see that I'm not at the end of my rope, that there's plenty there coiled up.

 

[Sand]

Aurora Beauty THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for posting this thread!! I am beyond frustrated, exhausted - running on adrenaline, and like you I need answers and a little hope. I have a 3 1/2 year old that is following in your daughter's foot steps. You have described my DD3 behavior perfectly. By her first bday she was walking, talking full sentences, and knew her alphabet and could count to 20 forwards and backwards. Her pediatrician said she was gifted (DAH! NOW WHAT!!). I also have a 1.5 year old DD.

DD3 can do a brand new 25+ piece puzzle in about 2 minutes. DD1.5 comes along and grabs pieces or tosses the puzzle to the ground, well you can only imagine the hysterics. I think the toy store should build a wing on in our name because I have purchased so many learning "toys" hoping to buy time to keep her occupied while I work with my little one. DD3 only intensifies the CONSTANT questions because she has SUCH an insatiable curiousity and only wants to know more, NOW. Once she figures out the puzzle or understands the premise of the book, challenge conquered. Next! No, she is not a drama queen but does understand negative attention is still attention. I can see why others have mentioned it, but no she is not looking for attention. To me, she is assembling her comfort zone around her personal space and wants everything her way. I thought she might be OCD but she is not consistent. So that's out. Yes, every waking minute of the day is a power struggle with her. She wants to control EVERYTHING - what she wears, what channel the TV is on (Disney of course or PBS), etc. Yes she is strong willed but I have watched her to determine what is she trying to control. I can write a book on that but I truly believe she just wants build her environment. Our youngest could care less about our opinions and goes about her happy day. She truly balances our strong willed family.

I will not comment on everything posted, even the stupid ones. I will tell you, it is like having a "reverse special needs child". I have watched since they were born how DH and I condition them. Reward charts haven't worked because, to her in her simple world, she lacks for nothing hence she needs nothing. Favs are taken away as punishment (plus time outs) but she knows she can take it out of her sisters hands later or just pick a new favorite. UGH! Next! Small basket of wrapped gifts (wrapped containers of play dough), she picks a gift for a reward but then her sister would come along, pick at it and eat it. UGH! NEXT! Books, I read once, she can read it back - even several weeks later, now the book is boring. NEXT! Since my DD thinks she knows it all, I am trying to find ways to keep her over active brain going without her sister interferring in her space. She wants to learn all the time, demanding my attention. I see the blessing in her curiosity but my little one needs one on one time also then sibling rivalry starts. UGH!

What has worked is opening her favorite book of the moment to a page with an illustration then asking her what do you see? Then it becomes a discussion, not tell me what 2+2 equals where she is giving me robotic answers. I have tried to find ways she can just be a kid, bake cookies, make frozen yogurt, ride her bike when DH is home. These sound simple enough but understand these are quite challenging when DD1.5 is running around reeking havoc. DH is a computer geek. Both DD's have DH tech gene and loves anything with a blinking button. I refuse to go to an electronic store with them! What about when they are napping you ask? Well that is when the clean-a-thon starts.

I will look into the recommended books and websites. Daycare is about $1,000 a month . Public preschool is a lottery. So we are hoping and praying if and when DD3 can start school then I can work with DD1.5. Children with learning disabilities and english as their second language are immediately enrolled. DD3 knows spanish but I don't think she can get in on that technacality.

I always keep in mind, ok most of the time, that no matter how bright she is, she is going to push against the parental boundaries. All kids do. She knows she is allowed to CALMLY protest her opposition. (I am trying to get her to describe her feelings instead of the tantrums.) We can agree to disagree. She knows there are postitive and negative consequences to her actions. When she gets in her - I am smarter then you attitude she is in no mood to do anything but argue. I flip the tables and work on her character. I will say, remeber the other day when you were being kind by ... , praising her again for it. We discuss it for a while, her mood changes and we are on to the next thing. I believe it is paramount to build not only her intellect but every aspect of her so in years to come she doesn't identity herself as JUST an intellect but focuses and thrives on her own hobbies and passions. I also wanted to throw in that DH and I try once a week, usually on the weekends, to have one on one time with each girl. That has really helped them.

Like I said, I am beyond exhausted from being constantly ON with her. We are tryiing everything we can, even making our own mistakes along the way. I honestly, totally understand your frustrations. I anticipate having to know the temperature in Spain during the month of June. I appreciate knowing your mistakes and triumphs. I want to learn all I can. I know there will come a day when this ol' gal can no longer out smart her. Hopefully she will be in preschool by then. Thanks again!

PS, Congratulations on a job well done. I truly understand your dedication to your family. It takes a LOT of stamina and love!! Pat yourself on the back!