OT: Help from parents of High Intensity kids

Reading the comment about your daughter swinging her feet while at the dinner table reminded me about a story I saw on the nightly national news a few months ago. It featured an elementary school teacher that had all the kids desks elongated so the kids would be able to write while standing. A swinging bar was also added to the bottom of their desk so the kids could swing it with their feet while sitting on their "bar" stool or while standing. The students were allowed to stand or sit at their desk as they like. They can also swing the bar with their feet as they like. The teacher said she was astonished that most kids preferred to stand most the day rather then sit. When the students were able to release some of the anxiety from test taking by swinging the bar, they were able to focus and across the board, test scores went up. The bar certainly helped the kinetic learners. I think this was a 4th or 5th grade.

I just found it interesting and wanted to share.
 
Reading the comment about your daughter swinging her feet while at the dinner table reminded me about a story I saw on the nightly national news a few months ago. It featured an elementary school teacher that had all the kids desks elongated so the kids would be able to write while standing. A swinging bar was also added to the bottom of their desk so the kids could swing it with their feet while sitting on their "bar" stool or while standing. The students were allowed to stand or sit at their desk as they like. They can also swing the bar with their feet as they like. The teacher said she was astonished that most kids preferred to stand most the day rather then sit. When the students were able to release some of the anxiety from test taking by swinging the bar, they were able to focus and across the board, test scores went up. The bar certainly helped the kinetic learners. I think this was a 4th or 5th grade.

I just found it interesting and wanted to share.

Thank you. I try to be flexible with giving DD the option of standing/sitting but I draw the line when it comes to the dining table b/c in the real world there is no exemption of manners when it comes to dining.

I have a friend whose son is ADD/ADHD/Spectrum and I swear he has jumped over a million times on his mini-tramp. They homeschool too and that's how he does his learning.

If only I had that much energy, I'd be the skinny person I wish I was.



As to your prior post about your DD3, my heart goes out to you. I don't know if I could do this if I had another little one. I'm often at a loss with one.

I think one of my saving graces is that I am a very structured person. So even though I may be seen as being too rigid or strict or depriving my DD of a normal childhood, to some degree it worked.

At about 3, we started posting what we called The [Insert Last Name] Family Laws. I put them on a big posterboard where everyone could see and if anyone broke a law then there was a consequence. For DD it meant time out, but there was also a consequence for me and DH too (usually having to apologize). They were all in a positive tone. We started with one and over the course of a month added to it. Before I did this DH and I discussed the things that we needed to deal with then listed 8 or 10 things. From that list we prioritized. Here are some of them:

All family members speak lovingly to each other even when they are upset. This was b/c DD would yell when she was mad. We made it OK to be upset but she had to still communicate nicely.

All family members touch each other with kindness. DD went through a hitting phase. It didn't last very long, maybe a few weeks, but it always stayed on the list.

All family members keep saliva in their mouth, where it belongs. The little boy across the street was a spitter and so DD thought that might work for her. WRONG! This one was escalateable in that first violation was time out, second violation within one hour and DD was given a coffee flavored candy (to her it wasn't candy, it was just nasty). One coffee candy and DD never spit again.

All family members ask pleasantly before taking something someone else is using. We ended up not having to use this one, but it may be useful for you.

All family members use words to communicate what they want or need. This one was used b/c DD would point at stuff or think that I was a mind reader and then get upset when I wasn't.

All family members treat their possessions with respect. DD would get upset and throw her toys or kick them and then would expect me or DH to fix them or buy her new ones. Consequence for not treating her things nicely was that they were taken away, usually for the rest of the day.

All family members ask politely for things they want or need. I'm not a 'gimme' person, so I wanted DD to learn about pleasantries. If DD didn't ask nicely the first time I'd give her a reminder. If she still didn't get it then she didn't get what she wanted. And yes, there were times she swore she was going to die of thirst if I didn't immediately give her some water. But all she had to do was ask nicely. And now, honestly, DD generally has terrific manners.



One of the rules we have at the therapist is that when I am in my session, DD can interrupt only if there is an emergency or if she has to use the bathroom (the bathroom is through the therapists office). DD is doing much better about not interrupting, but some days it takes all I have not to tie her down so she stops knocking on the door. The door is unlocked, so at least she's knocking and not barging in. Maybe you need to have rule like this with your DD3 for times when you are needing one on one time with DD1.5. Maybe you can give DD3 a choice of activities (play with ponies, read a book, or .....) that she can do while you are with DD1.5. Start with short amounts of time -- 5 minutes. Let DD3 know that it's very important that you help DD1.5 and you can't be interrupted because when you do things with DD3 she gets your time too. Tell DD3 that she is a big girl and that she can sit quietly and that DD1.5 is still little and she's just learning and that DD3 can help DD1.5 learn how to have good manners. Maybe I'm babbling, it's kinda late. If I sound incoherent, let me know and I'll try to do better later.

I read about an early childhood education program that believed little tiny kids can learn anything. And b/c of learning more I was able to create a program that gave DD what many would think is seemingly random information. They are discrete pieces of information. I taught DD all kinds of things with this and it really helped -- she had to focus and she got the stimulation and information she craved. For me it was a my saving grace b/c you can't send a 3 year old to school and there is no preschool in the world that wouldn't have wanted to sedate DD b/c she was just so intense. I have very elaborate stories that DD would dictate to me (before she could write) and I'd write them down. I put them in a composition book and would leave a blank page after each written page so that when I needed DD to do something individually she could illustrate her story. I know, sounds completely goofy but it was terrific for us.

DD also wanted to control everything and I hated the idea of arguing with her. When it came to choosing what to wear, we picked out the outfit the night before (it worked for us b/c our weather is pretty consistent but most people know what it's going to be like the next day). In the AM there was no discussion. She picked it out, she wears it. Of course, either I or DH would help her pick things out to some degree. But DD knew she needed panties and bottoms and a top or a dress. Maybe having your DD get her clothes ready the night before would be helpful so that in the AM you could get DD1.5 ready w/o DD3 creating a situation.

Some of DDs favorite books are the ones about how things are made as well as the Handy Answer guides (I think we have 6 or 7 different topics ranging from weather to history to geography, etc).

Often I would make her homemade books. I literally have thousands of these things. The type was larger b/c it's easier to read. I have books on all kinds of things. Some of them are 15 pages long and basically I took one page from a book about the moon and typed it up and added some pictures. I have books on dinosaurs -- I'd take one dinosaur and come up with 10 or so facts and create a 15-20 page book with these 10 facts and a few nice pictures. Egypt, got it. Planets, yep. Composers, them too. Poems too. Seriously, it took a lot of time. But it's what I felt I had to do to give her what she needed. It was interesting, it was age appropriate, it had nice pictures, she could put it on her lap (I used standard paper in the landscape mode) or on the floor. But they weren't always books of info and all academic. I have disney books that I re-typed/edited so the type was larger so she could read it more easily -- one thing I found was that although she could read at a very tender age, her eyes still had difficulty focusing on the tiny print in most kids' books. Large type was easier to read (signs, ads, things on TV) so I redid her favorite books to make it more fun and independent for her.

I also found that physical activity was so important for DD, which is partly why we have monkeybars in our house. I also created games where we'd crawl around the house (yep, I'd do it too but it was kinda fun crawling around) pretending to be dogs or cats or whatever animal. I'd let DD hide pretend food for the animals and she was the leader and she'd have to lead me around to get it all. Other times we would have to be so quiet and sneak up on the various stuffed animals she'd hide around the house. I created something like a circuit and we'd do these activities -- hop 10 times around the dining table, then crawl to the front door, then skip to the bathroom, and finally do bear walks back to the start. I'm sure this all sounds extraordinarily stupid, but it gave me stuff to do with DD that was engaging, fun, good for her health and development and occupied her time.

I have so much compassion for you, Sand. You're right, it is like having a reverse special needs child. Except that 'gifted'/high ability kids do not get federally mandated assistance as readily as other special needs children. Some of the first things to go in public schools when funding gets cut are gifted services. The last things cut are special ed programs b/c schools need them to get funding. I do not begrudge any special needs child's services because I know they are critical. But it is equally challenging with high ability/high intensity kids that don't have the help and resources too.

I hope I've been able to offer you some help. Everyone has been so helpful to me, I need to pay it forward.
 
Coming in a little late... And I haven't read every single word of every single post, but I do have two things to say.

1. Last year I taught (public school) a 14 year old boy who sounds like your daughter's twin. He was being served with special education services, for disorders that nobody could seem to really pinpoint. Mom and Dad were so highly frustrated, as were we, of course, due to his unruly behavior, high opinion of his own intelligence, and low regard for ours. He just wasn't meeting his peers at their own intelligence level, and thirsted to talk to teachers about topics even beyond our comprehension sometimes (we even moved him from my special ed. class to my gifted class). My favorite thing became to use a vocabulary word he had to look up - quite a coup! Here is where I'm going with this - Mom didn't give up the books. She kept reading until she found one that sounded just like her son, and it opened up new worlds for her. While there may never be an official diagnosis, she is so sure this boy has a form of Asperger's, and therefore should be treated as such. When I say treated, I mean adult/child interaction, especially with discipline. Suddenly we were able to try new things that seemed to save our sanity. I don't know the name of the book that was the key, but I can find out and PM you if interested. **shiver** Brings back memories...

2. As for the public time-outs - I totally get it. My son is 3 and when he gets too big for his britches, as they say, I'll put him on a chair, bench, etc. and make him count to 60. I have been stopped by strangers thanking me for "parenting" my child. It shocked me the first time; then I think back to my 8th grade students and I see... Keep parenting the best you can, take a deep breath, and don't forget time for yourself!!
 
Thank you. I try to be flexible with giving DD the option of standing/sitting but I draw the line when it comes to the dining table b/c in the real world there is no exemption of manners when it comes to dining.

I have a friend whose son is ADD/ADHD/Spectrum and I swear he has jumped over a million times on his mini-tramp. They homeschool too and that's how he does his learning.

If only I had that much energy, I'd be the skinny person I wish I was.

I am a stickler for manners as well. My little one is doing her best to get it all in the pie whole. My older DD, well, we are still working on manners. I am still trying to find the day to day balance. We too rarely go out to eat unless my DD is on her best behavior. This whole ADD-spectrum thing makes me crazy! Why are SO many kids diagnosed with it, espcially boys? Any kid above or below "normal" is on the spectrum.
I should be a stick figure!
 

In your earlier posts, several things jumped out at me as alarming and that reminded me of my own childhood and my struggle with my mother. I was firstborn and an only child until I was 5 1/2. I've always been fiercely independent, highly introverted (though not particularly shy after my preschool years) and have always known exactly what I want. I always felt that my mother wanted a perfect perfoming dog rather than a child. Mom knew I was the best and expected me to outdo all of my peers at everything that was important to HER. (I was certainly not profoundly gifted, lol.) I don't think she did it completely deliberately, but I was discouraged from any activities in which friends' children might be better than me and was ridiculously pushed in areas she could control my excellence. (Discouraged from playing sports because I wasn't great, forced to earn every Girl Scout badge and have far more badges than anyone else, oh, and sell more cookies than anyone else...) The power struggle was constant and ended with me deliberately getting mediocre grades in HS and putting off going to college because I was so desperate to move out and live how I wanted to live.

Sorry, OP, I got sidetracked into my own drama. I don't see you as my mother, but it's obvious you are very structured and very in control. It was always the little things that caused the biggest power struggles between my mom and me. A LOT of stress could have been alleviated had she been willing to let go of a few of her rules and allow me to have my childish way. (I'm talking the feet swinging, etc., certainly not talking back or real issues.)

I'm now the 37-yr-old mother of two. I am probably too lax in discipline in general and definitely WAY too lax when it comes to table manners. Honestly, this is probably because it drives my mom crazy when she takes my kids out to eat and DD9 gets food all over her shirt. (hee hee, I'm laughing just thinking about Mom's reaction.) Seriously, it bothered my mom immensely when DD was a baby learning to eat solids and I didn't wipe her mouth completely clean between every bite. DD hated having her mouth wiped and that would have led to an unnecessary power struggle at age 6 months! (DS6 was born a neat freak.)

Good luck with your amazing daughter, OP! It sounds like you are exhausting every resource to help her. Maybe just back off a little on some of the power struggles. Obviously, they can continue well into adulthood ;)
 
I had tears in my eyes reading about some of your children!
I too have struggled with my oldest (who is now 17) being
extremely determined,
with a non-stop mind and body. She has always been impulsive and
wears her heart on her sleeve. I had her tested for ADHD when she
was younger and they said that was not her issue.
I have taken her to a couple of mental health professionals over the
years, and they have suggested she go on meds. She refuses!!
"I want to learn to control myself BY myself!" is her answer.
She was always a good student until freshman year in high school,
but dropped out at 16 because she was so bored and couldn't
stand the drama of social cliques and the rules (like getting up early
because she is such a night owl). We went through a rough time
(she was enrolled in an alternative school for awhile and had a
couple of "conversations" with the police). After sitting home for
a year, she did a 180. She now has her license and works a part
time job. She got her GED (all arranged and studied for by herself)
and is planning to enroll in the local community college in the
spring. One of her common statements is "I wish I was 25! I
can't wait to start really living my life!"

I have said to her many times "I don't know how to raise a child
that is so different from me." I am exhausted watching her live
her life sometimes! I also tell her I admire her free-spiritedness.
I would say encouragement (for the positives) and careful
conversations about consequences (especially negative) have
helped us. Also, we have learned to pick our battles. IMO
that's just good advice when raising kids! ;)
 
I have done some research and had experiences in this area, and found that highly gifted children often (not always) also have high sensitivity and a certain perfectionism...as if they are trying to live by a script in their head. When other people and general circumstances don't follow the script it can throw them off.

I suggest you read everything you can get your hands on about parenting a highly gifted child, join online support groups of parents of similarly abled kids, even contact the gifted education departments at some universities to help you find targeted resources and information.

Here's some resources, though you may already have seen them

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_gifted.htm

http://giftedhomeschoolers.org/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0910707642

Best wishes to you :)
 

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