OT - Gifted Kids

[C&G'sMama]

I'm sure there have been threads about this, but I'm too lazy to search. One of the more recent topics of when to send you child to kindergarten inspired me. It seems like quite a few respondents have kids that are gifted. I'd love to know what other parents do. As it really is a separate topic I decided to start my own.

Background we are in a large 36,000 K-12 urban district where over 80% of the children receive free or reduced price lunch. My children are in a charter school that has the same demographic as the district.

I have 2 children DD9 and DS6. DD is of average intelligence, like me, and right now is struggling in 4th grade. Even without an IEP she is getting all kinds of help from school including counseling and Saturday School.

DS is an Aspie and does have an IEP for PT and OT, though he will test out of the PT at the end of this school year. But the kid is very bright and in 1st grade is reading at a 4th grade level, starting multiplication division etc. It seems to be like moving mountains to get this kid challenged. We love our kids' school and the people. But they really don't seem to be ready to handle gifted kids. (They don't have a TAG program) My son isn't the only one and we know families that have left the school or are contemplating leaving as their children aren't being challenged.

They refuse to let him skip a grade. We have been promised he would be pushed up to 2nd grade for reading and math but it seems like after a couple of weeks they lose momentum and all of the sudden we realize he's doing the same work as always and hasn't been going up to the other classes. We do a lot with him at home. We have seriously considered home schooling.

But why should we have to home school or send him to private school. Doesn't my academically "gifted" child deserve a decent education as well as my "average" child.

So, I would love to hear what other parents' experiences are with their gifted children and the schools.

 

[mjkacmom]

Schools just don't have the funding for a true TAG program, which really should be the top 1%. My kids are in ours (they're in the top 4%), and it's just a pull-out program with extra work. They don't start until 3rd grade, when it's easier to determine who qualifies. Once they get to JH/HS, there are honors classes, and honors and AP classes in HS. Dd13 was challenged enough just taking all honors JH.

Unfortunately, in a public school setting, most of the material is geared towards what most of the kids can handle. My kids could probably get a better education if I sent them to private - you get what you pay for - but we can't afford it. They only test "high superior" on the IQ scale, so they're bright, but certainly not Einstein (my gf does have one of those, and she's very worried about sending him to public school).

Does your ds complain? I have to say, up until 3rd grade, I don't think my kids got less than 100% on anything. However, they enjoyed school anyway! Dd8's kindy teacher even offered up extra work, but I turned it down. My kids are just laid back, not needing to be challenged.

 

[daisyduck123]

My DD did skip a grade, but it wasn't my idea, it was the schools. When they called me to discuss it, I told them I'd like to think about it for a few days. Around here, grade skipping is not taken lightly (the principal told me that in his 20 years, our DD was the 1st child he'd ever skipped) & I wanted some time to think about it. I am a teacher & in my 20 years of teaching I've only seen it done 3 times (one time was my own DD).

DH & I decided to go ahead with it & it has been perfect for her in all aspects....socially, emotionally, & academically.

I know that grade-skipping is not an option for you. I think that is great that you are supplementing with activities at home. You stated that he can read at a 4th grade level. That is great! I have a group of students in my 1st grade reading at that level as well. I have that group reading advanced level books. Surely your DS must be in a higher-level reading group in class? How is his writing? Does he enjoy writing paragraphs/stories? I stress writing as much as I do reading, & always encourage parents to work on that at home if they are looking for ways to supplement what we do in the classroom.

About his Math....does your child's school differentiate in Math classes at all? I give my highly able students enrichment activities every Monday...which are due on Friday. Perhaps you could ask for something similar.

You do need to consider though that your child is in "public school" & not all schools are alike with having the same programs, focus, etc. I teach in a public school and believe me, we can not please all of the parents at any given time. If homeschooling is a possibility, you may want to consider it (I'm all FOR IT. It was the topic of my Master's Thesis). You may find that it's perfect for your family.

 

[shaylahc1]

Here is my opinion.

In the state that I live in (NC) gifted classes don't start until 4th grade. If your child is tested as gifted before that well, too bad so sad....you will have to find ways to enrich them at home. I remember reading somewhere that someone had successfully removed their child from a public school and placed in a private school AT THE SCHOOL'S EXPENSE because they could not accomodate their child's extreme giftedness. Public schools are required by law to provide children with an "appropriate" education....what consitutes "appropriate" is kind of a gray area, but the fact is the school has to accomodate their special needs. I am not sure giftedness qualifies but it is certainly something that if someone wanted to make an issue of it, well, you probably could. Anyone who has children with special needs (BTDT) knows that trying to get the school system to do ANYTHING to help accomodate a child who is differently abled is a nightmare If you are determined enough though, you might be able to make some noise and maybe the school might be willing to do something to help accomodate your child.

That being said if your child has Aspergers then IMHO skipping a grade will not help him in the social department. I have several gifted children and my oldest DD has a late birthday (meaning not only is she gifted, but she is also one of the oldest children in her grade) so she is doubly difficult. We have homeschooled off and on over the years and grade skipping has come up as an option...however my DD, while brilliant academically, is socially immature and very much a "follower"....we had one incident recently where an older teen tried to get her to sneak out of the house during a sleepover This is something my DD would ordinarily never do but due to her own immaturity and "passive" nature just sort of went along with....It's incidents like that that remind me WHY grade skipping is NOT a good idea. Being surrounded by older children means your child is going to be exposed to a lot of things (drinking, drugs, sex, peer pressure, etc) before they would otherwise and if they are not super confident and able to withstand the peer pressure, well, they will be at a huge disadvantage. I don't think grade skipping is a "cure" for giftedness. While appropriate under some circumstances, I believe most of the time it is probably not the best solution for the child. You can have a gifted child in an average classroom who is challenged through extra work. Even working with them at home can make a big difference.

JMHO.

 

[MM27]

The reason there are so many people that claim to have gifted children is because many people don't know what a gifted child is. A gifted child is not just smart. Check out this list. It begins to explain the differences. http://pages.framingham.k12.ma.us/sage/brightchild.htm

 

[Colleen27]

Unfortunately, the situation in most states is that special ed is mandated by law (that being federal) but gifted education is not, and schools are punished for poor performers but not rewareded for high (above-grade-level) performers. So in a nutshell, the gifted child isn't entitled to the sorts of accomodations that the struggling child is.

I'm lucky. My above-average kiddo is content to read or help the teacher when she's done with her work way ahead of her classmates and challenge herself outside of school. Our school doesn't skip grades, and we wouldn't want that even if they did; she's already the youngest in her grade and a "young" 8 in terms of social influences (ie. she still believes in Santa Claus & Mickey Mouse, isn't interested in the boy-girl stuff that is starting among her peers, etc.) We're both looking forward to middle school, when the kids are grouped by ability in several core courses, and to high school, when she'll be attending the IB magnet rather than the neighborhood school.

 

[iwrbnd]

Our school system does a nice job educating the child where he/she needs it. My friend's son is on the autism spectrum with an IQ of 150 but his behavior is very difficult. The school system had him skip a grade AND gave him a para. I thought that was very good of them to see that you can be smart and still need individualized plans. My son is also on the spectrum and he has an iep for writing but is also placed in accelerated math. Children have individual strengths and weakness and the school needs to modify for them. I'm so thankful we are in a school that can do that! We're in a small town in Missouri.

 

[Tinkmom75]

The reason there are so many people that claim to have gifted children is because many people don't know what a gifted child is. A gifted child is not just smart. Check out this list. It begins to explain the differences. http://pages.framingham.k12.ma.us/sage/brightchild.htm

It's really this kind of doubt that hurt my son. He was clearly on the gifted side of the list, but he is a little more goofy and not self disciplined. The school finally had to admit that yes, I was right when they finally gave him and IQ test toward the end of 4th grade. The problem was he was not accelerated earlier and at that time grade skipping would have put him in the MS without having been in the class with those kids for a couple years. It was not appropriate. Their answer either throw more worksheets or stick him in the hall for independent study which was not appropriate for 4th grader.

I'm sorry, I have no answer because I advocated for my child several years, but was not strong enough or confident enough in myself to promote him more strongly. We didn't have thousands of dollars to spend on private IQ test nor did we have the funds to send him to private school. Logistically charter school was out of the question and since my DH and I both work full time homeschooling was also out. The result, I now have a gifted underachiever. Public school has taught him he can be lazy in his schoolwork and still ace everything. He is in advanced math and gets all A's he just doesn't have to put any effort into it. It is also frustrating for him to have to do busywork.

If I had it to do over again, I would have insisted he be skipped in early elementary. Late elementary and MS is not the time. In fourth grade was finally the time I took it to the Superintendent level. So my advice is not to be afraid to go around the teacher or principal and up to the next level. It is very clear to me now that our district really pooh pooh's this kind of thing. I even got on a team for gifted education, but all they wanted was us to come up with a way to raise money for the school. They didn't want input.

Also, check out http://www.hoagiesgifted.com/ You will realize that gifted children are not always well rounded and are often asymetrical like my son. He loves reading and science, but is behind in writing. He is not creative but very literal (think big bang theory). When he would get concentrating on a subject it was like he was in a different world. The whole thing absorbed him.

The sad fact is there is not and appropriate amount of funding for TAG or GT and these kids do need help just like those on the other end of the spectrum.

 

[TheWags]

to have an Aspie diagnosis. My daughter could not qualify for any programming (besides a weak "Challenge" program) just based on IQ scores. She cruised along in elementary, but spent 3rd grade reading Harry Potter series over and over. By the beginning of 4th grade she was having anxiety attacks and seeing a psychologist. Eventually it was determined that much of the anxiety stemmed from being so completely out of synch with her peers. She also was given an ADHD diagnosis, and * PRESTO * we qualified for services and a 504 plan. Because of her disability, she must be educated at her level.

hoagiesgifted is a great resource, but you should also look at "Twice Gifted" resources. My DD is now in middle school in an IB program and accelerated math. She is engaged in the classroom and has almost no anxiety issues in 6 months. She is comfortable in her own skin, and likes school. I still feed her interests outside of school, but having her mind doing something useful 8 hours a day (instead of just sitting there) makes a huge huge difference. She takes college classes in whatever appeals in the summer.

The greatest advice I have received is FEED THE GIFTS while addressing the deficits.

Tracy

 

[C&G'sMama]

It's really this kind of doubt that hurt my son. He was clearly on the gifted side of the list, but he is a little more goofy and not self disciplined.

The result, I now have a gifted underachiever. Public school has taught him he can be lazy in his schoolwork and still ace everything. He is in advanced math and gets all A's he just doesn't have to put any effort into it. It is also frustrating for him to have to do busywork.

No, he's gifted. And I know IQ doesn't necessarily mean gifted but his is around 160 (we were fortunate in that the test was part of his testing for Aspergers).

One of our concerns is that he becomes a passive learner. As the above poster stated by 4th grade her son knows he can "get by". I've also learned that something like 20% of High School dropouts are those that are "highly intelligent".

I have one brother and 2 nephews that all graduated high school but they all dropped out or never attended college (though my 61 yo brother will graduate in May, my 92 yo mom is thrilled). This is what I don't want for my son. I do realize that teachers have a lot on their plates.

As far as skipping a grade, we go back and forth. On the one hand it might not be good from a social aspect but quite frankly he doesn't soicalize with the boys in his grade, so what's the difference? Adults love him, kids don't get him. He does sports at the Y, is in a LEGO group with ASD kids and goes to the local chess center.

But what about the kids that don't have parents behind them? We are in a district with a 50% graduation rate. We have a lot of kids with challenges. There are a couple of local private schools I would love to send him to but at $17k per year, that isn't going to happen.

Please, I don't mean this to sound whiny, that is not the intent at all, I'm just curious what other peoples' experiences have been and like to brainstorm.

 

[brergnat]

I have a son with Autism in Kindergarten (special ed. class). He is clearly gifted, but he is SO behind socially that I am not really worried about how far ahead he is academically. School is a balancing act for us. For now, he enjoys school. He is amused by the stuff they are learning (like phonics and super basic math), but he is a great student. Very attentive and as his teacher says "he's right here with me all day". She loves him and has told me more than a couple times that he is the most intelligent child she has ever taught (in over 20 years...). He is not disruptive due to boredom or anything. They give him extra work as needed during stuff like rotations.

I wouldn't consider skipping a grade for him because although he prefers older kids and adults for company, I don't think it is appropriate to expose him to "older" themes before his time.

I am thankfully in a VERY good Public school system, but if I wasn't, I'd probably find a way to afford Private school, although that has its own problems when it comes to IEP's and "special needs" related to his Autism...

There will never be a perfect situation. However, I believe that my son's gifts will come to light in his future, and won't necessarily be hindered by his K-12 schooling. He is so far beyond most other 5 year olds academically it is insane. We joke that he could be in college already, the way he is voracious in his desire to know and understand EVERYTHING. And, for what he ALREADY knows...it's frightening, really. He was just born knowing...way too much!

He does have his limitations, though. He can read ANY word in front of him, but that doesn't mean he can fully comprehend stories, plots, character interactions, themes, etc. That stuff goes over his head. Anything imaginary or abstract, he cannot really understand. He is good at math and computer stuff. Not so much "right brain" stuff..

 

[yellowlabforever]

When I was in elementary school, I had to go through speech therapy because I couldn't pronounce some words right. At that same time, I was in accelerated reading classes from first grade through third grade because I was considered to be a gifted reader (insert long back-story here). There was a group of about 5 or 6 of us, all top readers in the grade.

Our fourth and fifth grade were combined. There were three teachers, and each was assigned a tier of students that they would work with. I was in above average reading class, and I was in average math class. We had one of the three teachers for homeroom, and we varied around them for other classes. But when I was in fifth grade, this was discontinued and we were back in our regular seperated fourth/fifth classes. One kid was considering skipping a grade at this time, because he was extremely gifted in intellegence. But he decided not to.

My high school has honors classes, and we have AP English as the only AP-titled class that you can take. I took a college online course, which is also allowed for honors. And our school has something called Departmental Distinction where you can get honors for a class that is not considered honors. (I might be getting that for music). The teacher has to write a letter, and the school board has to approve it.

 

[jmrdavis99]

Our school recently started lunchtime discussion groups for the G&T kids that are in 2nd-4th grade. This is after 3 years of me asking for SOMETHING. Luckily we are also a Core Knowledge school which incorporates lots of projects (i.e. dioramas, presentations, posters, etc.). I believe this has helped keep some of the G&T kids challenged because they can invest a lot of effort in their project if they are encouraged to do so. We have 2 (DS 3rd grade & DD 4th grade). We try to enrich their Core Knowledge subjects outside of school by taking them to museum & cultural exhibits.

I basically asked every teacher, principal and whoever else would listen what they did for G&T. When I was told they didn't have the resources, I kept asking. Eventually I found one of our teachers who has a masters in G&T education who was willing to start the discussion groups. She has also mentioned trying to get a parent-led Odyssey of the Mind program which we will probably incorporate next year.

My suggestion is to keep asking. If you see something that would benefit your child, ask if the teacher and/or principal is willing to incorporate it. Ask if there is anything that YOU can do...one of the things that I did was apply for a grant for the school to be able to take all the kids (not just G&T) to our local art museum that was exhibiting Roman artifacts. This was one of the core knowledge topics, so it fit with their curriculum. Also check into Odyssey of the Mind.

I grew up in a wonderful school district that started kids in their G&T program in 2nd grade. We actually were pulled out one day a week and bused to another school in the district. I don't remember ever being "graded" there. When I got to Junior High we actually had a 1 hour class that was taught by the heads of the science & math departments.

Also, as one of the PP mentioned, I saw several G&T kids that were so bored by the time they got to High School that they just had no interest in school. Do everything you can NOW to keep your kid challenged!

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I have a gifted 4th grade DS. He is 9 years old and skipped 2nd grade. His little brother just 12 months younger is a little above average in school. It's so sad to see one brother wondering why can't he skip a grade, and why is older DS so much farther ahead.

Our district is small. We have about 3000 total students k-12. Skipping is also a big deal here. My son's 1st grade teacher was the first to bring it up. My DH and I did a lot of research before making our decision. It wasn't easy. I don't regret it now at all. I'm lucky my DS isn't only advanced academically, but he is also very mature for his age. He is also a very eager learner.

Even though he has skipped one grade school still comes very easy to him. We challenge him at home with extra activities. He asks me to summer school him so he won't get bored. He says his best Christmas gift this year was his word a day calendar. He is just that kind of kid. Our schools don't offer language classes in elementary so he does Rosetta stone spanish at home. I should have known something was up with him when at 3 years old he would rather go to the book store than the toys store.

I could go on forever about this, but I have to get dinner on the table now.

 

[Aristomommy]

Our school has a gifted classroom starting in 2nd grade. In order to be eligible the school requires an IQ test score of over 130 and achievement test scores. Some schools around here does only one test, which will result in a higher number of gifted identified students. The label of gifted has little to do with straight As, but how a student learn at a faster pace, requires less repetition and their unique learning needs. I say all this because every thread like this draws posters who doubt that any child is truly gifted and think parents with GT kids are bragging etc.

OP: I would suggest that you request formal testing for IQ and achievement. Most schools can do that for you, or you can do this privately ($$$). Make sure you choose someone who tests gifted kids frequently to get accurate test results. Once this is done, get a copy of Iowa Acceleration Scale. It walks you through step by step all the aspects of your child and will give you a recommendation for grade skipping, subject acceleration etc. Meet with your school again once you have completed the Iowa manual and it gives a very reasonable recommendation for your child. Many schools do not have funding for gifted programs, but there are so many ways to do this without added expense.

DD11 has been grade skipped and subject accelerated in math, LA and science. In a large school system as yours, there have to be other gifted children that could be grouped together for subject acceleration. All it takes is your school's willingness to think outside the box. Just get your facts together, do a lot of reading and research to advocate for your child. The book "genius denied" was an eye opening read for me that helped me look at the educational system in general. HTH

 

[princessmom29]

I can remember my mom having to fight tooth and nail to have me tested for the gifted program. I ws in 3rd grade before they even agree to test me. I had terrible handwriting, and the teacher argued that i couldn't be gifted, evn though I read on a 6th grade level in 2nd grade. I finally was tested in with and IQ in the 160's, then my family was forced to move out of district. The testing process had to be done all over again at my new school. It was a huge hassle, and the new school bussed me to a school almost an hour away one day a week for TAG. They wanted to just skip me a grade, but mom wouldn't allow it. Sounds like it hasn't changed a whole lot. It is still like pulling teeth to get anything done!

 

[C&G'sMama]

I can remember my mom having to fight tooth and nail to have me tested for the gifted program. I ws in 3rd grade before they even agree to test me. I had terrible handwriting, and the teacher argued that i couldn't be gifted, evn though I read on a 6th grade level in 2nd grade. I finally was tested in with and IQ in the 160's, then my family was forced to move out of district. The testing process had to be done all over again at my new school. It was a huge hassle, and the new school bussed me to a school almost an hour away one day a week for TAG. They wanted to just skip me a grade, but mom wouldn't allow it. Sounds like it hasn't changed a whole lot. It is still like pulling teeth to get anything done!

DS doesn't have great hand writing, a piece from poor motor skills, though he had been in OT for 3 years and is greatly improving.

His developmental pediatrician basically asked why does he have to write, everything is on computer now. We want him to have basic writing skill but we too feel, why can't he type things to get his ideas on paper as they want him to.

We are in a charter school, not a district school. You would think in a district our size they'd have a decent gifted program. They used to but it's really morphed into a program for average kids that do as well as their suburban counterparts (or to put it another way, they've dumbed it down) This info. comes from teachers we know in the district and is the district's way of trying to keeping kids from moving out.

Really, the charter school is wonderful. The head of the school is brilliant as his is daughter who is in 8th grade at the school. So, he is on board (and he loves DS). But we have been trying to work with the teacher and instructional leader. We want to give them another chance before we go back to the head of the school.

Another thing we love about this school is the size. There are 2 classes in each grade with a maximum of 23 children in each class. All of the K-3 classrooms have a dedicated aide and there are a ton of volunteers. In K they found a retired teacher that worked with him in math.

And we do a lot with the school as we believe it is important to be involved. DP volunteers in the classroom twice a week and we are involved on various committees. I'm not saying that is why we should get help, I'm saying we're not just putting everything on the school to take care of.

 

[StephMK]

DS is identified gifted and we struggle with the same issues. My DS skipped 1st grade and started K at 5 yr 2mo. So he's basically 1.5-2 yrs younger than the rest of his class. Socially he is pretty outgoing and not at all shy so he's been able to hold his own. Last year in 2nd he had issues but I don't know that the kids even remember this year. Yes, there might be issues as he gets older but having him stay in a grade that didn't provide any new information wasn't a good fit either.

Like another poster said, it is hard for his older sister who is now just 1 grade above him to see that she can't skip too and knows he is better at certain things than she is.

He does pull out groups 2x a week and gets additional instruction "work" in math class. He sees it as just having to do more and harder work than the rest of his class. I worry about him becoming an underachiever because he is horrible about turning in homework. He knows he doesn't need to because as long as he aces his tests, he keeps good grades. He cried one day because he always gets both spelling pre-tests right and pulls out his history book as soon as he wakes up on a Saturday morning to study for a test because he loves to read.

I went to a gifted conference yesterday and actually asked the well known speaker about how do you know if things are "good enough". He is a big believer in meeting kids' emotional needs and said if the kid is happy in school, they can get the educational component at home. It was interesting at the conference to see a huge room of professionals interested and fighting for gifted ed, but sad to hear how little is provided and more cuts are planned that affect the program.

The school came to us to identify him & have been great but I wish he were challenged more. We just try to have fun, educational things to do at home and mix that in with his "normal" boy interests.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

DS doesn't have great hand writing, a piece from poor motor skills, though he had been in OT for 3 years and is greatly improving.

His developmental pediatrician basically asked why does he have to write, everything is on computer now. We want him to have basic writing skill but we too feel, why can't he type things to get his ideas on paper as they want him to.

Since he has an IEP, you can request that he be allowed to type in class and for his homework as one of his accommodations. My son (w/Asperger's) was allowed to use the classroom computer starting in 2nd grade whenever the kids had to write a paragraph or more. At home, he was allowed to type or dictate to me for longer assignments. I would make him spell the harder words for me and tell me where to put the punctuation to make sure he could do it. For middle school, he's been in a specialized private school. They supply AlphaSmarts for all of the kids to use in class. It's basically a wireless keyboard with a small readout at the top. The kids use them to take notes during class and type in-class assignments. They take turns hooking up to the classroom computer and printing their work.

Next year, he's going to be in high school. We haven't decided yet if he'll stay in the private school or go into one of the high school district's Asperger programs. We're having the first transition meeting with the new district on Tuesday. If he changes schools, we will buy him either his own AlphaSmart or a Notebook or Laptop computer to use during class. We will make sure his IEP continues to allow him to type during class. His writing isn't bad. It's definitely readable. But writing for extended periods causes him a lot of anxiety that just doesn't need to be added to the mix when he's at school or doing homework. So, if you feel strongly that you want your DS to be able to type in school, look into getting it added to his IEP.

 

[sl_underwood]

We were in a similar situation here. My oldest dd skipped a grade early on in public school. She went to school able to read and write and do basic math. Even skipping a grade, she was still ahead of the other kids, bored, and always trying to find something to do. Her mind just needs something to work on all the time. Eventually, we decided to homeschool her so she could get what she needed. She graduated highschool the same week she turned 16. She also has already cleped out of 7 college courses. This year she is attending cosmetology school just for fun. Next year, she will take graphic design at the same school. After that, she will go away to college. I wanted to hold her back, was not comfortable with her graduating early or skipping grades but it has worked well for her (once we found more to keep her busy for the next two years) I wouldnt send her to college now as the one she has chosen is in NY and we are in OK. But I have no doubt she will suceed when she gets there.