OT: ease my mind about immunizations!

[Nicoleclaw]

Petussis is serious within the first 6 mos of life, with a 1% fatality rate in that age group. Beyond 6 mos of age, fatalities from pertussis are almost unheard of, so it isn't considered a serious disease in older infants, children and adults.

Most of the infant deaths occur in infants too young to be vaccinated.

Thanks for the info. I do like Dr. Sears. I have some other book of his...somewhere! lol I read it before #2 popped out! But, what about the infants UNDER 6 months. I was lucky enough to be home until dd was 6 mo, and ds was 7 mo, but there are babies as young as 6 WEEKS in daycare. Is that just the risk we run sending kids that young to that germ infested place called a daycare? lol Not to start THAT debate...

 

[MKCP5]

Is that just the risk we run sending kids that young to that germ infested place called a daycare? lol Not to start THAT debate...

 

[mefordis]

Thanks for the info. I do like Dr. Sears. I have some other book of his...somewhere! lol I read it before #2 popped out! But, what about the infants UNDER 6 months. I was lucky enough to be home until dd was 6 mo, and ds was 7 mo, but there are babies as young as 6 WEEKS in daycare. Is that just the risk we run sending kids that young to that germ infested place called a daycare? lol Not to start THAT debate...

I hear ya. The first dose is given at 2 mos. I know my dd's daycare started at 6 weeks (that was the youngest they would take them, I mean).

I wonder if they will ever start mandating adults to get vaccinations. I mean, it seems like it's the adults who are spreading the pertussis around because most of us aren't vaccinated. Brings an interesting discussion of personal rights, etc. It's not the government who is madating the shots -- it's the daycare and schools, right? Well, I guess it's the government who is behind the daycare and schools mandate.

It's a very interesting time right now with the vaccinations. All of the parents who are now educating themselves, second guessing the medical community and being very vocal about their vaccination experiences.

I expect things to explode in the next couple of years. Hopefully more $$ will be given for research and a cause for autism will be discovered.

In the meantime, NJ has just mandated 2 more vaccinations for our little ones: Rotavirus and Pnemonia shot (haven't researched this one yet).

 

[MKCP5]

I hear ya. The first dose is given at 2 mos. I know my dd's daycare started at 6 weeks (that was the youngest they would take them, I mean).

I wonder if they will ever start mandating adults to get vaccinations. I mean, it seems like it's the adults who are spreading the pertussis around because most of us aren't vaccinated. Brings an interesting discussion of personal rights, etc. It's not the government who is madating the shots -- it's the daycare and schools, right? Well, I guess it's the government who is behind the daycare and schools mandate.

It's a very interesting time right now with the vaccinations. All of the parents who are now educating themselves, second guessing the medical community and being very vocal about their vaccination experiences.

I expect things to explode in the next couple of years. Hopefully more $$ will be given for research and a cause for autism will be discovered.

In the meantime, NJ has just mandated 2 more vaccinations for our little ones: Rotavirus and Pnemonia shot (haven't researched this one yet).

It's all very difficult isn't it? I mean, I don't want the government mandating everything, but at the same time, on a simplistic level, people don't even have the common sense to stay home when they are sick with the barfing bug. They don't want to miss work or their perfect attendence at school so they come in and spread it to everyone else! There are no good answers

 

[Nicoleclaw]

I was actually upset last year when our dr in NJ wouldn't give the rotavirus vaccine to ds. Knock on wood, he got a virus, but I do not believe it was rota due to lack of watery diahrea....lol....anyway, they felt it had not been out long enough after the original recall. So I was like, alright that sounds logical, and I was glad they were being cautious. But I did notice last visit it was on their sheet! I guess they are giving it now that it is mandatory. What shot is the pneumonia one? I also hear flu is supposed to be mandatory for kids in daycare under 5?

 

[Nicoleclaw]

It's all very difficult isn't it? I mean, I don't want the government mandating everything, but at the same time, on a simplistic level, people don't even have the common sense to stay home when they are sick with the barfing bug. They don't want to miss work or their perfect attendence at school so they come in and spread it to everyone else! There are no good answers

And for daycare, or a kid who is old enough to wipe themselves, the virus is shed in poo (not sure about saliva or any other way) for up to 2 weeks after! So even if your kid is eating fine, and acting fine, they most certainly can be spreading it still. You know alot kids don't wash their hands good enough. Heck, after getting the bug twice from my kids this year, I would take the vaccine in a second!

 

[mefordis]

I was actually upset last year when our dr in NJ wouldn't give the rotavirus vaccine to ds. Knock on wood, he got a virus, but I do not believe it was rota due to lack of watery diahrea....lol....anyway, they felt it had not been out long enough after the original recall. So I was like, alright that sounds logical, and I was glad they were being cautious. But I did notice last visit it was on their sheet! I guess they are giving it now that it is mandatory. What shot is the pneumonia one? I also hear flu is supposed to be mandatory for kids in daycare under 5?

I think you are correct about the flu shot:

http://asthma.about.com/b/2007/12/1...tory-in-nj-preschools-day-care-facilities.htm

Read the comments at the end of the article - many parents are up in arms about these new required vaccinations in NJ.

I can't seem to find any info in my Dr. Sears book about the pneumonia shot. I think it is relatively new. WAIT A SECOND! I found it!

This is the Prevnar shot - it's been around for a while. Also called Pneumovax 23 by Merck. It has a lot of aluminum in it - 125 micrograms (no more than 25 micrograms is the limit for newborn babies, just to give you a sense of how much that is. There is no limit set by the american academy of pediatrics for older children, that Dr. Sears could find in his research).

One in 20,000 infants may have a seizure after this vaccine.

I'm not sure that the above is the Pnemonia vaccine they are talking about, but it seems like it is.

Here's more about the vaccination: http://www.njha.com/cs/pneumoniavacprogram.aspx

 

[mefordis]

And for daycare, or a kid who is old enough to wipe themselves, the virus is shed in poo (not sure about saliva or any other way) for up to 2 weeks after! So even if your kid is eating fine, and acting fine, they most certainly can be spreading it still. You know alot kids don't wash their hands good enough. Heck, after getting the bug twice from my kids this year, I would take the vaccine in a second!

Or I'm thinking about daycare providers. They may have may seemed to be fully recovered they could still spread it.

 

[Nicoleclaw]

Or I'm thinking about daycare providers. They may have may seemed to be fully recovered they could still spread it.

They don't pay my son's teacher enough to change those diapers! That is for sure!

 

[Nicoleclaw]

I think you are correct about the flu shot:

http://asthma.about.com/b/2007/12/1...tory-in-nj-preschools-day-care-facilities.htm


This is the Prevnar shot - it's been around for a while. Also called Pneumovax 23 by Merck. It has a lot of aluminum in it - 125 micrograms (no more than 25 micrograms is the limit for newborn babies, just to give you a sense of how much that is. There is no limit set by the american academy of pediatrics for older children, that Dr. Sears could find in his research).

One in 20,000 infants may have a seizure after this vaccine.

I believe ds has gotten the Prevnar already. Or maybe DD just did. I can't keep track. Might be multiple doses, didnt look at your links yet. Love the seizure thing. Aye aye aye!
Thanks for all the info I am going to go take a look. We were just commenting at work the other day how our babies are getting so many more shots that our 4 year olds did!

 

[mefordis]

I hope I'm not boring you all with my Dr. Sears book -- but I am so excited about it and I'm learning so much I want to pass some info on!

He says that Breastfed babies have a greatly reduced chance of catching any of the diseases for which we currently vaccinate. Breast milk has antibodies that coat the lining of the nose, lungs, and intestines so most germs that get inhaled or swallowed are killed.

He says that when he sees patients in the office who tell him they don't want their baby to get vaccines, his first response is, "I hope you plan to breastfeed your baby for at least two years!" If the parents answer, "Yes, of course we are." he breathes a sigh of relief. Breast mil also passes a whole host of mom's antibodies for a variety of diseases to the baby.

He also says when parents tell him they don't want their baby vaccinated, he likes to assess their baby's overall risk. Are they in daycare? He says if an unvaccinated baby is in daycare and not breastfed, he is really asking to get sick.

He says parents who choose not to vaccinate should breastfeed for as long as possible and avoid daycare, as well as church nurseries and health club childcare centers for the first year or two.

 

[mefordis]

I believe ds has gotten the Prevnar already. Or maybe DD just did. I can't keep track. Might be multiple doses, didnt look at your links yet. Love the seizure thing. Aye aye aye!
Thanks for all the info I am going to go take a look. We were just commenting at work the other day how our babies are getting so many more shots that our 4 year olds did!

1 in 20,000 is NOT very likely at all! Thank God!

 

[mefordis]

Most parents do not have a choice in whether or not to vaccinate. They attend public schools (or even private - most do require vaccinations), are not of a religion that is against vaccinations, and live in a state that doesn't allow philisophical exemptions. Those parents have no choice but to vaccinate. I don't blame many parents for NOT wanting to hear about any reports of side affects, etc. What good does it do? You just have to hold your breath and pray that nothing goes wrong.

It's a very helpless feeling.

 

[Lisa_M]

I hope I'm not boring you all with my Dr. Sears book -- but I am so excited about it and I'm learning so much I want to pass some info on!

He says that Breastfed babies have a greatly reduced chance of catching any of the diseases for which we currently vaccinate. Breast milk has antibodies that coat the lining of the nose, lungs, and intestines so most germs that get inhaled or swallowed are killed.

He says that when he sees patients in the office who tell him they don't want their baby to get vaccines, his first response is, "I hope you plan to breastfeed your baby for at least two years!" If the parents answer, "Yes, of course we are." he breathes a sigh of relief. Breast mil also passes a whole host of mom's antibodies for a variety of diseases to the baby.

He also says when parents tell him they don't want their baby vaccinated, he likes to assess their baby's overall risk. Are they in daycare? He says if an unvaccinated baby is in daycare and not breastfed, he is really asking to get sick.

He says parents who choose not to vaccinate should breastfeed for as long as possible and avoid daycare, as well as church nurseries and health club childcare centers for the first year or two.

I went out and bought this book today after the other thread enlightened me that rotavirus vaccine is a 2 year old vaccine from a previously recalled one. DH and I have decided rota is out for dd,but I haven't told the docter yet. I'm concerned about daycare though because we don't have one yet and she'll be about 6 months old when she goes. Dr. Sears' books are very good. The Baby Book has been spot on so far...

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

Thanks! It sure is frustrating. What scares me lately is that immune/antibody/autoimmune disease keep escalating. I have been trying to read as much as can.

I know this thread was originally about the MMR, but one thing that stuck out for me was the discussion on the chicken pox vaccine and pregnancy. My older two kids had chicken pox and my younger two were vaccinated. I am tempted to want to expose my younger two kids to a full-fledge case of chicken pox because the vaccine doesn't prevent it, it seems to still allow a mild case. I don't want my younger daughter to be exposed when she is an adult and possibly pregnant. If I could find someone to expose them to, I'd still have to leave the house because of my immune system now. I still never found any source that could sell me on the great benefits of that vaccine. I didn't have to worry when I was pregnant because I already had it - to argue in favor of the vaccine because of pregnancy doesn't make sense to me either because we don't know what the future will bring, it's too new still.

I've been following this thread with great interest since Mason is due for his 12 month shots next month. DH has a Masters in BioChemistry (so in my mind a better understanding than I do of the research data) so I have asked him to do some more research on the vaccines so we can make an informed decision about delaying Mason's shots.

My oldest DD (now 14) was hospitalized with Rotavirus when she was 7 months old so when the vaccine came along I had my DD9 and DS both vaccinated against that. DD14 had a reaction to the first DTP shot so she received DT only or DTaP for the rest of the series and doesn't have "full" immunity to Pertussis.

DD9 had the varicella vaccine and had a mild case of chicken pox anyway.

Is there such a thing as an unbiased book about vaccinations? We are headed to the library and I would love some recommendations on the "just the facts" books if those do exist.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

Most parents do not have a choice in whether or not to vaccinate. They attend public schools (or even private - most do require vaccinations), are not of a religion that is against vaccinations, and live in a state that doesn't allow philisophical exemptions. Those parents have no choice but to vaccinate. I don't blame many parents for NOT wanting to hear about any reports of side affects, etc. What good does it do? You just have to hold your breath and pray that nothing goes wrong.

It's a very helpless feeling.

you do not have to belong to a specific religion. That changed in the 80's (but don't try to tell my school district - they prefer to mislead people with the old wording!!!). You only have to have a "sincerely held personal religious belief" - or wording to that effect. You used to have to belong to a specific church or have a note from a clergy - that sort of thing. The courts found that to question or hold someones beliefs up to those kind of restrictions was religious persecution ...I am not wording that well, but you get the idea!

this and/or a waiver is all you need to attend public school in many states. Most schools are not interested in pursuing it further and I don't blame them.

I think it is wrong to put this in the schools arena. This means administrators are practicing medicine without a license. To pursue it means to expend the schools resources on something they should not be forced to deal with!!!! Just wrong on so many levels.

I think the gov't realizes that they can't mandate vaccines, so they came up with this. They give people the idea that you HAVE to have them for your child to attend school, which is not true for the most part.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

I went out and bought this book today after the other thread enlightened me that rotavirus vaccine is a 2 year old vaccine from a previously recalled one. DH and I have decided rota is out for dd,but I haven't told the docter yet. I'm concerned about daycare though because we don't have one yet and she'll be about 6 months old when she goes. Dr. Sears' books are very good. The Baby Book has been spot on so far...

The Baby Book is by Dr. William Sears (I love all of his books!).

The book the PP is talking about is by Dr. Robert Sears.

 

[Nicoleclaw]

Most parents do not have a choice in whether or not to vaccinate. They attend public schools (or even private - most do require vaccinations), are not of a religion that is against vaccinations, and live in a state that doesn't allow philisophical exemptions. Those parents have no choice but to vaccinate. I don't blame many parents for NOT wanting to hear about any reports of side affects, etc. What good does it do? You just have to hold your breath and pray that nothing goes wrong.

It's a very helpless feeling.

Exactly...the risk of the seizure was not high at all, but who wants to hear that it is even possible? Any why is it possible? The whole thing is scary and I kind of wish I was in the dark! lol

 

[LanaJae]

Is there such a thing as an unbiased book about vaccinations? We are headed to the library and I would love some recommendations on the "just the facts" books if those do exist.

I know a lot of people think it's junk, but I like looking things up on wiki because there are so many eyes on each entry and many citations, which is a good jumping off point.

 

[Anjelica]

I think it is wrong to put this in the schools arena. This means administrators are practicing medicine without a license. To pursue it means to expend the schools resources on something they should not be forced to deal with!!!! Just wrong on so many levels.

I think the gov't realizes that they can't mandate vaccines, so they came up with this. They give people the idea that you HAVE to have them for your child to attend school, which is not true for the most part.

I don't necessarily blame schools for mandating vaccines because isn't it state requirements? (Talking strictly public schools, etc.).

I do have to respectfully disagree with your statement regarding administrators practicing medicine - they really aren't. They are just doing what the state has mandated. I also can understand why states have gone that route. Sheesh in Illinois now, your child cannot start Kindergarten until they have gone to the dentist for a checkup (you must provide proof).

I think there are wayyyyyy to many children out there with parents that just don't put their children at the top of their priority list so government feels they have to step in. Ask quite a few doctors about how many times they don't see a child at their regularly scheduled appts (vaccines aside) just to ensure proper growth, etc.

I don't necessarily agree with the route of government playing such a large role in mandating certain items. BUT since most states mandate that children of xx age must attend school they probably feel obligated to ensure that for the health and safety of everyone, including those children with say less than involved parents, they then have to mandate something most of us would consider common sense (i.e. physicals, dentist appointments, etc.) I think its their way of "covering" themselves since they (states) mandate school. In our sue happy world combined with less than stellar parenting (you would not believe the horror stories of some folks) I think they are trying to do, what they think is best, for a majority of people.

Again - I'm not saying its necessarily right but I can honestly and completely understand why they have these rules out there.

As a side note I have talked with my grand-parents and great grand-parents before about growing up, etc. and I think they really do have a very differing view then some of us younger people in terms of diseases we view as "minor" due to the less than common occurence. My grandmother lost her sister to polio and I know she remembers the horrible condition of some of those children. I just wonder if we were faced with more of the diseases that some of these vaccines have helped to irradicate would we not have a differing opinion? (Food for thought)