OT-Discipline for 4 year old

[hsmamato2]

Lots of good advice here... some of it differs, but the basic thing OP should listen to is this... YOU ARE THE PARENT. Don't be afraid of that. Take charge, make firm decisions, then let your child make her own choices, within reason, and let her experience the consequences of her decisions.
A child of that age is very intelligent, and capable of understanding that her actions will cause reactuons, both positive and negative.
Be consistent, and when you have to enforce discipline,make sure you mean what you say. Don't backtrack, and carry through what you've promised, be it a good or a bad thing.
BTW, I doubt she was "terrified" by your tiny ,non hurting pat on her bottom while she was in full swing...shocked is probably a better word, as it appears you haven't done it before. At that age, i always found a quick 'surprise' here and there served as a better tool than all the talking in the world. 4 year olds don't respond well to a lot of talking, but quick,instant teaching and discipline works best at that age. reasoning comes when everyone can be calm.
And a little shock and surprise at what mom's capable of isn't such a bad thing, it instills a healthy respect in the child for their parent, and a healthy fear of displeasing parent, b/c they learn that parent isn't put on this earth to cater to them all the time, that sometimes Mom and dad make decisions, and if you think it's hard getting a child to cooperate now, wait till she's a teen! Set the groundwork for respect now.
I always made sure my kids understood that their screaming and flailing hurt ME, and I got angry,as any sane person would when being treated like that. Thus, Mom unhappy = no good things on the horizon for them!Therefore I let them know that was the reason i wouldn't allow it. Not regularly at least, I understand that it happens sometimes when kiddo is tired,etc.

 

[hsmamato2]

Oh, BTW, the marble jar pretty much backfired with us after a while, it turned my kids into" well, if I do _____ can I have a marble?" little greedy mobsters, which started to feel uncomfortably like bribery to me after a while..... so now we work form this premise, my kids expect me to do certain things for them as their parent, and I expect certain behaviors from them. These are things we owe each other in our family,and if we live up to our own ends, great! life is sweet! alowances flow uninterupted! If not, too bad, here come negative consequences....
You could create a chore chart for her, and one of her chores she has to do to get allowance or whatever you give her might be to 'have a happy morning before school'.... or" get dressed without screaming or yeling'

 

[Grendalynn]

I totally agree with these posters! I could have written it myself!!

This is all about control....

A few things I have learned. Ignore a tantrum. Don't "talk about it" don't yell or scream, walk out of the room. None of this "now that you are calm we will discuss what the problem was" mess. A tantrum is bad behavior and should never be reinforced. As a matter of fact, a timeout for the tantrum is in order. I also ignore whining. I also like the 1-2-3 magic approach. When you see the behavior escalating you can start counting. It usually heads it off.

Consistency, consistency, consistency. You must always be consistent. No is no is no. If you say "If you don't pick up your toys in 10 minutes, I will throw them out." DO IT! Children need to know you mean what you say. You must always follow through with threats or promises, good or bad.

A big ol' tantrum in the moring is a good way to control you....

Stick to your guns. Bundle up a screaming child, wrestle them into the car, and take them to school. You have no choice about school, you will go, on time. If need be you will go unwashed, uncombed, in your pajamas. (send a comb and clothes and tell the teacher to allow the child to get dressed during playtime -not work time- this will only happen once, sitting through 1/2 the morning in your pajamas is embarrasing)

Another thing is reinforcement for sass and eye rolling.

Reward good behavior, but not consistently - This points out good behavior and that a pleasant child is pleasant to be around.

Lots of good advice here... some of it differs, but the basic thing OP should listen to is this... YOU ARE THE PARENT. Don't be afraid of that. Take charge, make firm decisions, then let your child make her own choices, within reason, and let her experience the consequences of her decisions.
A child of that age is very intelligent, and capable of understanding that her actions will cause reactuons, both positive and negative.
Be consistent, and when you have to enforce discipline,make sure you mean what you say. Don't backtrack, and carry through what you've promised, be it a good or a bad thing.
BTW, I doubt she was "terrified" by your tiny ,non hurting pat on her bottom while she was in full swing...shocked is probably a better word, as it appears you haven't done it before. At that age, i always found a quick 'surprise' here and there served as a better tool than all the talking in the world. 4 year olds don't respond well to a lot of talking, but quick,instant teaching and discipline works best at that age. reasoning comes when everyone can be calm.
And a little shock and surprise at what mom's capable of isn't such a bad thing, it instills a healthy respect in the child for their parent, and a healthy fear of displeasing parent, b/c they learn that parent isn't put on this earth to cater to them all the time, that sometimes Mom and dad make decisions, and if you think it's hard getting a child to cooperate now, wait till she's a teen! Set the groundwork for respect now.

I so agree with all of the above. I think todays society has tried to sugar coated everything so much that children now run the parents lives. But not in our house! We are the bosses and the boys know it. They challege our authority and they are quickly reminded that we arethe parents. The kids need to respect us and learn that as early as possible. Otherwise, come 5th, 6th, 7th grade, we will be attheir mercy and raising a bucnh of brats.

Yes, every child is wired differently, and we all know what works best for each child, but above all else, its up to us to raise our children with the skills, values and morals they need to succeed in life. We all see the kids on talk shows and on the news that we just want to slap. Point being that their parents never had control and never will. Its starts and is defined durings the terrible 2's, horribing 3's, F-ing 4's and Challenging 5's... For those who have not seen the Jr high/Middle School years, hang on for the ride - you ain't seen nothin' yet! Get control now, 'cause that is just as bad!

 

[Grendalynn]

Oh, BTW, the marble jar pretty much backfired with us after a while, it turned my kids into" well, if I do _____ can I have a marble?" little greedy mobsters, which started to feel uncomfortably like bribery to me after a while..... so now we work form this premise, my kids expect me to do certain

I agree - My Dad always said to us when we asked why or what we would get out of it... He would simply say, "Because I said so." Thats it. End of discussion. All done. Dad (and Mom) are the boss. If they said, "Go outside and run in circles for 10 minutes" we would ask why and they would simply say, "because I said so"... and would would probably have done it... But we knew to and still do respect our parents. They were boss and that was it....

 

[vhoffman]

Everything I've read here my kids have done at one time or another. I guess I'm not the worst mother in the world, after all! And my kids aren't the worst kids in the world! Our children are both adopted, so they started out as an object of curiosity to family and friends. It seemed my every little move, and the kids, was hyper scrutinized by all the "observers" who were constantly chasing after me with books, magazine articles, names of therapists, etc. I contended all along that they were just being kids, at times driving me crazy, but still "normal". You don't know what it does to your sense of self-worth to be constantly criticized for parenting, when other people's kids are the same if not worse.

Reading this thread has helped me tremendously to realize that I'm not some sort of "failure". My kids aren't some sort of "weirdos". If we are, then so are many others!

It looks like we might be moving soon due to a job change. I intend to keep my children's adoption status confidential (easy, since they really look like us!) so they and I won't be judged by their background. Honestly, we're not the Addams Family!

 

[schlepsnort]

Welcome to my world, but my world is a 4 yr old boy.
So far what has worked is putting him in his room (his toys are all in a seperate room so there's no playing in the bedroom) and shutting the door. I go in after a few minutes and ask if he is ready to behave. If he can answer me without crying or whining then he may come out and apologize for what he had done and go back to playing. If he is still crying/whining he is told that he will stay in there until he can calm down and behave.

Sometimes I have to physically hold his face between my two hands and look in straight on in the eyes to get his attention.

We do spank but only ONLY as a very last resort when all else has been exhausted and he is endangering himself or his brothers or myself (I'm handicapped and have to be careful of my physical surroundings, so hitting/kicking is the absolute NO in our household)

We also take away priviliges (Power Rangers, dessert etc.)

And we pray every night for this stage to pass quickly! That and the fact that next year he starts all day/all week kindergarten keeps us going!

 

[Kaleigh1]

Hi! I feel your pain. Hope all is well now-days!
My 11 yr old was that way..I was at my wits end. A friend suggested the "IF THEN" chart. Sounds silly, but it works! I let her help me put stickers and color the chart, then we laminated it at kinkos. There is also the "BLESSINGS" chart. It rewards the child for good behavior. It can be found at doorposts.net Not sure if I can link, but here goes..
http://www.doorposts.net/if_then.asp

Here's how it works. There is a place for you to write your own infractions..tailored to meet your own kids special areas to work with..then you write in your own consequence. That way, they are making their OWN decision to disobey. You're not the bad guy anymore. But STICK to the list you have made.

What's great is it has a verse explaining why we shouldn't or should act a certain way on the end of it.

The blessings chart rewards a child for good behavior. We put pennies in a jar. Be careful b/c it takes a lot of pennies to fill up a cup or jar, so a baby jar would be good. Draw a line around where it needs to get to have their special treat or balloon at the store or whatever.

My daughter was thrilled when she saw this HUGE balloon at the grocery store. I told her she needed to get that penny jar up! She did! It's amazing...these strong minded children are very smart! They know your limits! They will push you and push you until you draw the line with consistancy.

I would never have believed while commenting on my friend's child how wonderful she was...when she told me that she was once like my oldest! NO WAY! But, she's right. Now that she's 11 she is confident, talented, secure in right and wrong and is the first to walk away from a bad decision at school. I'm so proud of her and to think...it all started with either making a good decision or a bad decision. It's up to them!

Good luck! Let me know if you try this and how it works. It's been a Godsend in our family!

K

 

[princesspiglet]

I am the original OP and I just want to give a huge THANK YOU to everyone who offered such wonderful suggestions!! I feel like I have this huge on-line family I can turn to when I need help and it is a great feeling!

So back to Regan ( The Omen, joke)... It seems like the tantrums are relating directly to school. During the weekends, she is wonderful. Come Monday, it is a different story. I sat down with her on Saturday before nap time and asked her to tell me what is wrong. At first she didn't want to say anything, but she eventually opened up a well! She talked for about 20 mins straight all about school and how she didn't like this and that , etc. So this morning I spoke to the Director and explained what Athena said to me. We had a long talk and think that Athena is "bored" with the class and needs more stimulation and learning then what she is getting. There are a few classes that are offered for the Kindergartners such as Spanish, HOP and Learning Adventures that I signed her up for even though she is only 4 and hopefully that will keep her curiosity going. I also intitated a "responsibility chart" that we put into place on Sunday. It gives her more control over certain things,like she gets to pick her outfits for the next day the night before and lay them out on the floor. She also gets to be the "prep cook" for dinner and set the plates, etc out and wash the veggies and fruits. She is also responsible for some minor chores like making her bed, putting her dirty clothes in the hamper, hanging up her coats, etc. I started using a timer this morning to help her with time. I told her she had 15 mins to watch cartoons and set the timer and when it buzzed, it was time to get ready for school. She fussed a little when it went off, but really took to it. I think I am going to use it for everything! She was also excited because she starts Soccer Shots today and starts Dance on Wednesday. I was worried about overplanning her, but she seems to thrive on being busy. I also started a "reward chart". When she does her chores or gets ready like I asked without questioning me or fussing, she gets a gold star that she puts on the chart. When she gets 20 stars, she gets to pick what we do on Family night. For any negative behavior, I will remove one star. So far, she has 3 stars and is loving the system.

I hope to take more of the ideas I gathered and implement them, but for now I am starting out slowely and going from there.

Many hugs to all of those who are going through the same thing or have already been down this long, difficult road!

 

[jnordan]

Wow! It sounds like you've really got some great ideas, and that you've really thought a lot about what your daughter needs! I'm sure it will work out for you guys!

 

[Grendalynn]

I am the original OP and I just want to give a huge THANK YOU to everyone who offered such wonderful suggestions!! I feel like I have this huge on-line family I can turn to when I need help and it is a great feeling!

So back to Regan ( The Omen, joke)... It seems like the tantrums are relating directly to school. During the weekends, she is wonderful. Come Monday, it is a different story. I sat down with her on Saturday before nap time and asked her to tell me what is wrong. At first she didn't want to say anything, but she eventually opened up a well! She talked for about 20 mins straight all about school and how she didn't like this and that , etc.

Many hugs to all of those who are going through the same thing or have already been down this long, difficult road!

I also feel that the DISboards are like and online family! Whenever I am stumped I turn to The Dis... and - Any weird and stranges thing that passes through my head, often comes up in these boards. Either by me or someone else in the same/similar boat. its a great place for sure!!

Your daughters situation that you entioned today sounds like My son last year at his Pre-school... Only he was the youngest in the class and the older kids ruled the roost. Not so much bullying per say, but he was not 100% happy there. It was a strugle in the morning to get him going and they had to peel him off me many mornings as I headed out the door... But now that those boys have gone off to Kindergarten, he is one of the older kids now and loves to go. GLAD TO HEAR EVERYTHING WORKED OUT FOR YOU!!

 

[LuvOrlando]

Princess piglet: "At first she didn't want to say anything, but she eventually opened up a well! She talked for about 20 mins straight all about school and how she didn't like this and that , etc."

Some nights it might be a simple goodnight kiss & other nights it will be a brainstorming session on what to do when so & so says DD isn't invited to her party. The fact that I now take the time to stand still & listen to DD as often as possible has changed our relationship and her social skills so much that I can't even compare our before to now.

Whatever you do I wish you & DD all the luck in the world.

 

[Boncho]

I, too, can symapthize with your situation, OP. I have read most all of the reply and very much agree with many of the things other have said or suggested: Praising Positive Behaviour, A Point Systems (AKA Bribery), Picking your battles, and eye for an eye, and so on and so forth.

I had posted earlier in the summer what a hard time I had/was having/am having with DS#2 who is 3.5... This summer I was at my wits and and saw ro reliefe in sight. Fortunatly, he has come out of it for the most part, I must have been in the thisckest part of it now in hind sight, but it was rough and I felt like I should just throw the towel in. Stick a fork in me, I was done, fed up and didnt know what to do next... Thats when I started "boot camp". Or so I called it at the time. All gloves were off and I had to fix it before it got worse. I was 7+ months pregnant, DH was working away from home for days on end and had to muster up the "balls" and ambition to really take charge of the situation. This is mostly what we learned from trail and error. Every family is different, so what works fro one, may not work for others. Here is my philosophy and what has worked for me/us (and thank God for Supper Nanny and Nanny911)...

1) Encourage positive behaviour: When the child does soemthing good/nice, let them know that you saw it and you are proud of them. This is when a point tystem can be effective....

2) Make deals: If you do this for me - I will do this for you. Rather than them get get get all the time , they have to earn things. If you pick up your toys, then we will go to the park... if you eat 3 more 'shark bites' of your dinner, then we will get out dessert

3) Represussions (sp?): I am a big believer of reprecussions. For each action, there has to be an equal or opposite reaction. Meaning - If you bite me, I will bit you - obvioulsy not in a dracula kind of way, but this was how we handles it and our boys only bit a few times... If you run away from me while getting dressed, you will sit in the time out chair. We gave the boys a timer and set it 1 min for each year they are old. When it beeps, the have to apologize to get out of the chair.

4) Consistency: We were sure that we stuck to our guns no matter how fried or tired we were. DH was fair more lax at times that I was, and this was a battle of itself, but thats another story for another day.

5) as they say; if you behave, your children will too. And I never believed this untile DH and I went thru a rocky stage... We would banter and bicker and so did the boys. Once we were back ontrack, the boys attitudes imporved as well.

6) "The Gold Rule" : This is something that was burned and drilled into my head as a child and I have instilled it with my boys... "treat others as you want to be threated". DS#2 who is 3 1/2 went thru a time of not sharing and being mean and beligerant to other kids, so we used to say over and over, "Now how would you feel if so and so treated you like that?" or " remeber how you felt when so and so did that to you? And did you like it?"

7) Trantrums and melt-downs: I say let them have at it. As long as they are safe as PP stated, let them go! They need to learn that it gets them no where and they can kick and scream until they are blue in the face, but they wont get their way. If you give in when they do that - they will continue to play that card so that they get what they want,when they want it. After my boys put up a stink or try to have a bad spell, I say "Now, where is having a bad spell going to get you", and DS's both pipe up and say "no where". Its taken a lil bit of time to train DS3 that, but hes catching on...

8) Pick your battles: Is it "that" big of a deal ?? So what if DS or DD isnt eating all of the dinner when out to eat - they are being quite and sitting nicely an politley. Praise them for what they are doing well, not punish them for what they are doing badly. My sister uses the saying, :its only a big deal, if I make it a big deal". I find this works, but be sure not to use it all the time.

9) That may work in Little Johnny's Family, But not in our Family: Whats good fort he goose isnt always good for the gander. DS7 has a friend that is one of the most spoiled rotten kids on our street - after they spend some time together DS will bring home antics like his friend. I he will alk back to his mother when she walks over to get himand dinner time - I remind him that that may fly at his house, but not ours. He quickly snaps out of it; as I remind him they just wont play anymore if he picks up on it frequently.

10) the 123 Count: Probably the most effective thing in our house for sure! I actually just used it a moment ago when DS7 was complaining about something. He tried "negotiating", and I said NO, he still dindt like the answer, but by the time I got to 3, he was gone and settled on my rule. If I get to 3, all deals are off. They soon learn who is boss and what we say goes. We run the house, not them....

Most all parents out there have been in the same situations as we all have mentioned and they can sypmathize with what goes on. And the ages vary but are all very much the same issues. Some strangers will look cross eyed at you in the supermarket or whereever when DS/DD is having a melt down, but they just dont remember what its like to have, or never had, small children. I usually just make a snide comment and go about my business/parenting...

I am by no means an expert, but these are a few things that I have found work with our family. I think once you lose control and don't try to fix it, they will run you and your life as they grow older...

I hope that it may shed some light and help someone out there. Even if its only for one instance out there in DisLand!!??

I was reading your post and thinking - Oh my gosh- exactly! I think one of the reasons we never had to deal with any of #7, was because we had the other 9 points in place.