OT---dealing with spouse's ex

[haley's mom]

I need to vent and hope some of you can offer some advice. I have been with my DH for 7 years, married 5 years ago. He has 2 children from a previous marriage. DD14 and DS8. We have a child together DD4.

When my husband and I got together, his divorce was final. He actually got the official papers the day of our first date. His kids were young when they divorced.

We had many problems dealing with his ex-wife. Many, Many fights. Until finally, we paid several thousand dollars to get court ordered custody agreement papers. In this agreement, it spells out who provides transportation. Prior to this we took both ways. It also spells out visitiation periods. We get the 2, 3, 4 and 5 weekends each month, she gets the first weekend. This was her choice as at the time her boyfriend did not want the kids to interfere with thier weekend plans. The custody agreement also covers holidays and the fact that we get 10 days during the summer.

All of this was agreed upon in 2001. Well, the ex-wife does not work, lives with her boyfriend and provides well for the kids. We pay child support every month - never miss a payment, provide medical insurance, attend all extra-circullar events (even those that fall during the week) and never miss a visitation period.

Well again with summer rolling around, we are beginning to battle. She will not let us have our 10 days alloted in the court papers. Everyday we suggest she has plans. We even asked her to provide us acceptable dates and would take vaction from work if needed in order to spend time as a family.

For the past 6 years, we have given up 1-2 weekends each summer for the kids to go on vacation with their mom's family. The feeling is that we don't want the kids to miss out. But when we ask for something in return, she says no! In fact, she did not allow my husband to have the kids until 12 noon on Father's Day. Keep in mind that Father's Day weekend was the 3rd weekend and of course was our weekend. We agreed for her to take the kids out of town and return on Saturday. Well, Saturday turned into Sunday at noon.

She asked for another of our weekends in July to take the kids out of the state. We asked that she use her weekend in July or August to do so. Now she left a message yesterday saying we need to discuss vacation plans.

What is there to discuss? We have plans for the summer and she blatently ignores the fact that is it our weekend. We are then forced to make a decision for the kids to miss our or give into her demands.

It has gotten out of control. It started when we had to get our attorney to write a letter to her when she said the kids could not attend our wedding 5 years ago. She made other plans. Again, it was on our weekend.

So now that she wants more of our time (we get so little as it is) with the kids for her trips, what do we do? Do we stand our ground and force her to change plans? This could risk the kids missing out if she refused to change plans. Or do we let her demand with short notice to take them on our weekend?

Please offer advice on how many of you have handled it.

 

[cleverclovers]

I have been divorced since 1988. My DD was 3 at the time. My ex immediately moved in with his girlfriend and the fireworks started. Always trying to change the visitation schedule. Always refusing to pay support. Let his (now ex) wife physically abuse my DD.

It won't stop or even slow down until you stand up to them and start fighting back. Also, I know the courts say not to bad mouth the other in front of the kids, but my ex did constantly. And my DD told me about it. So I was upfront with her about everything they tried to do. I had to temper it to her age level at the time, but told her that it was important to hear what was REALLY happening - not just the lies her father was telling her. And if her father went to jail - it was because of something HE did - no one else.

So go to court and have them enforce the visitation schedule. If they refuse - charge them with contempt and let them find out the consequences.

Good Luck.

 

[zippy doo dah]

This is a tough situation for you and your family and I'm sorry that you have to go through it and unfortunately the kids (even your little one b/c she can't be with her older siblings as much) are being caught in the middle and that's the sad part of it. Please know that we are here to listen to you and are here when you need to vent.

My best advice (and it may seem to contradict each other) is to do what is best for the kids. That should be everyones main priority, but based on what you're saying, it seems like right now it's what's best for the ex. Should she be able to get away with breaking the agreement that she herself signed? No. Should the kids be gypped from not seeing their father? No. To me it doesn't seem like you're making unreasonable requests, especially since most of your requests seem to take place on your weekends. But, since she makes requests to take the kids on your weekends, well the phrase "return the favor" comes to mind - meaning she should return the same courtesy you extended her. I think that everyone (just the adults at this point) need to sit down (hopefully this is a possibility, but I don't know your whole situation) and talk and you should tell her how you feel and then ask her how she thinks the kids feel being caught in the middle like this. Remind her (in a nice way or course lol) that this is the agreement that she made and that the agreement was made with the best intentions for the kids. Then suggest that everyone talks to the kids and hear their own words about how they're feeling (maybe she needs to hear that) and would they like to do (they are old enough to have an opinion here) and see if that can be worked into the agreement.

If she is unwilling to work it out then tell her you are going to pursue legal action to make sure the agreement is upheld - but follow through with it. Just handle it as delicately as possible so the kids won't feel resentful towards anyone - and hopefully in the long run, the kids will see how much their father loved them and wanted to spend the time that was agreed upon with them.

Best of luck to you - I'll keep you and your family in my prayers

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Maybe the visitation agreement needs to be re-visited. While I understand that you don't get the kids during the week, maybe you actually need to give up a weekend. Most visitation agreements read "every other" weekend. She gets one weekend a month. While I know she signed it willingly 6 years ago times have changed. Maybe she wants to do more things with the kids on the weekend.

I'm also quite surprised that the 14 yo would want to leave her friends almost every weekend. This is the age where they have everything happening and don't want to leave their buddies.

BTW, I'm typing from experience. I was actually pleased not to have the DSDs at the wedding as the mother would have stayed and disrupted it (even though I didn't meet DH until 7 mo. after the divorce was final).

 

[haley's mom]

Part of the issue is that the kids love coming to our home. They are very close with their sister. During the school year the 14-year-old does stay at her mom's house the 1st and 3rd weekend. But in the summer we go back to the court agreed upon arrangment.

We started to track months ago, due to DH's ex going out of town with her boyfriend. Though this does not affect me, it's awfully convenient that she goes away during the 1st and 3rd weekends. Does not take the kids. He BF travels a lot for work and she tags along.

Again, this does not affect me, but if she is OK leaving her kids all the time, she should not try to take away our time with them. From March through present, she was away 48% of her days with them and left them with her mom and dad.

All we asked for was a little consideration. We gave up most of Father's Day weekend. Asked if she could come home early, she said no. I will be there by noon. From calling dd's cell phone at 9am to make sure they were on the road home, we found out they were less than 15 minutes away. Their pet had an emergency while they were gone and they were picking it up. Now you MUST pass my house to get to their mom's house, but they could not stop or meet up at the highway. Their dog was much too sick. When they did come at 11:30am, the dog was in the car. Again, a little bit would have gone a long way if they had come to our house by 9:30am.

Last year she wanted to take the kids the 2nd weekend in August. We said ok, we'll switch you for the 1st weekend. That was fine until the 1st weekend rolled around and all of a sudden we could get the kids for about 6-8 hours on Saturday and that was it, she made plans. Why would she make plans if we switched?

Sorry to vent, but I love my husband and my children, but feel as if I am going crazy at times.

 

[Darcy03231]

Been there done that. We finally had to just stick to the schedule without any switching around. Everyone knew what their time was and had to make their plans accordingly. We were always willing to accomodate DH's ex-wife requests to change the schedule or swap days and then she refused to do the same. When she called to ask for a change we just said sorry, we've made plans and can't change them.

As for your summer vacation time if she won't budge you'll need to get your lawyer involved (we had to do this too). To simplify things we took the 2nd week of July each year and the second week of August each year. That way everyone knew when their time was. It was the only thing that ended up working for us.

 

[wilderness01]

Sorry but I would then have the kids miss some things. She is using them as a weapon, knowing full well that you will give in because you don't want them to miss out. How about if she doesn't have them miss out with you guys. I would be talking with my attorney and holding a little firmer with her. She knows you guys will budge and that is why she is doing it. I also would be sticking with the agreement as stated, it makes things a little easier when the other party is unwilling to budge. Sorry you are going through this.

 

[haley's mom]

Well, DH just got off the phone with ex. I am so proud of him. He stood his ground. She explained to him that she wants to take the kids on vacation the 3rd week in July not the 1st due to cost of plane tickets being much cheaper. (I looked on expedia it for direct flight it would be $80 cheaper to go mid-July). She also said that if they went in mid-July they would due to money concerns have to take a connecting flight. (Again, I looked on expedia, the connecting flight the 1st week of July is cheaper than the direct flight the 3rd week. They would not disembark the plane, only stop in another city to get more passengers.) She said with 2 kids she did not want to deal with this. So her and her BF will travel with 14 and 8 year old and cannot handle stopping in another city for less than an hour?

Why should we care if it's cheaper and/or easier for her? DH suggested that they go 1st week in August. She said they can't as the kids are going with her Aunt on vacation the 1st week in Aug. After looking at calendar, if they go Sat-Sat it will in fact take our weekend. Not a big deal if they get a vacation. Only problem is that we have had plans for Aug 11 for months and we notified her 4 months ago not to make plans for that weekend.

This is another example of total distregard for our schedule, feeling, etc.

 

[badblackpug]

I am all for being flexible if it is best for the kids, but this flexibility has to go both ways. Both parents need to make accomodations for the kids and their activities. If this is an ongoing problem your ex needs to tell his ex that from now on thw visitation agreement will be followed to the letter of the law. Let him tell her that if she has an issue with this then she will need to contact her attorney. Of course, you have to be willing to stand the backlash, too. This means you also can't make arrangements or ask to have the kids on days that are "hers." Be prepared for this to get really ugly (been there, done that) Inform her that you will expect her to pick up/drop off the kids at the designated times/places. If she does not, be prepared to call the police and have the visitation order enforced. Keep a copy of the court order with you at all times.

 

[3princesses+aprince]

It sounds like the only way for everyone to get there visits is to enforce the visitation schedule. Tell her you won't lose your visits anymore, unless once in awhile you think they get to do something nice and let it slide, other than that tell her she can't have them on one of your weekends unless you will have them on her 1st weekend. And though i'm sure getting attorneys involved again will cause more issues , it will make her stick to the schedule, It seems like you and your DH are being very accomodating and she is abusing that.
I believe another post had mentioned this too, but you should have your set vacation weeks every summer, so there is no making sure she remembers the dates , as they will be the same every year.
Good LUck with everything, I have a 10 yr old stepson, so I know how things get, fortunatley we rarely have issues, we have him every weekend, and during the week over summer vacation and holiday breaks. We got lucky, we have a very tolerable ex. But I have a friend at my dd's school, that had such a battle with her ex, that the principal had to hold the visitation agreement and make sure that the correct parent was signing their daughter out every day.
Good Luck

 

[disneyfreak74]

I so understand where you are coming from. My DH's ex plans tons of stuff for DD 12 to do that we NEVER SEE HER. He did not even see her AT ALL on Father's Day because the lovely ex planned for her to be at camp. She says that DD has camp from Sunday to Thursday, so we even asked if we could get her Thursday evening and bring her back Saturday. . .no they have plans!!! The last time we saw her was MAY 26!!! She LET her come for the day for DD4's birthday!!! When we take trips (I am self employeed and DH is a full time student (like 16 hrs this summer) we do not bat an eye at letting DS 8 miss a day of school. She never lets her go. But we play it RIGHT back. .not mean. . .but I am QUICK to make sure that DD12 knows that her MOM would not let her go. I do not do it in a MEAN WAY. We tell the ex that we are going to Disney on these days because of our schedule and would like for DD12 to go. Ball in the ex's court!!!


Giving lots of hugs because I understand!!!

 

[*KeepMovingForward*]

I am both an ex-wife and a stepmother, so I am on both ends. Personally, I think DH needs to go back to court and get everything spelled out to the letter in the agreement-including the exact time period that his days in the summer with the kids starts. I think it is a huge mistake to be deviating from the court agreement with the ex. I know it suits you guys and the ex at times, but it could definitely come back to bite you in the butt. What is to stop his ex from saying that the changes you made were to be year round and not just during the school year? Women can be very very very bitter-and this is coming from a woman. (I only say this because while men can be bitter for a time, they usually get over it rather quickly). She may have moved on, but maybe she hasn't gotten over the divorce and the circumstances surrounding it.

As far as the ex-wifes expenses and/or inconvenience, too bad. That's what the court system here tells folks. You have a visitation and/or vacation schedule-that's it. You work around it and if it causes you time or money, its part of being a parent and to just deal with it. This woman needs to suck it up and get over it. Kids are very perceptive-if the ex is doing all this just to be vindictive, they'll know and they will almost certainly come around as they get older. Her attempts to put DH at arms length will backfire on her at some point.

DH has this situation with his ex-wife and their DD. The poor man pretty much lived in the courthouse for 8 years. At the time, the ex was doing her best to make DD unavailable to DH-always some lame excuse. Of course when we got to court and she was threatened with contempt (jail time and a fine) for interfering with the visitation, the whole situation changed. Yes, she was still a witch and difficult, but in the end, she had to stick to the court order and if she ever asked to change something, DH said no. We also understood that in return DD might miss some events with our family when it didn't fall during our time, but we lived with it. Now that my DSD is grown, she has said she knew what the ex was doing (trying to punish my DH) and that she understands why he always had to be in court with her. Needless to say, DSD is not very close to her mother anymore (because of this and other issues).

My situation with my ex-husband is pretty much the same. The nicer I was and the more workable I was (switching times or giving up time) the worse he was. And just because I was workable didn't mean he was that way to me in return. I have custody of the kids, but there were still many many problems to deal with in respect to his time with them. He was famous for cancelling his time with the kids at the last minute (like as in 5 minutes before he was supposed to show up) and then he'd demand I give up my weekend to make it up. Ummm...no...I don't think so. I had to take my ex back to court last year and since then, things have been wonderful because there is no room for interpretation-it is all cut and dried. Its a crappy way to have to do things, but it saves soooo much time , there is no more constant aggravation and most importantly, the kids are not caught in the middle!

 

[haley's mom]

I love the idea of set weeks in the summer. I'll mention it to DH and his ex.

One thing we have is excellent communication with the kids. When we send a note or have to talk to their mom about something we tell them why we are asking, or why we are saying no, etc. This way the kids realize that if/when the miss out of things it will not be our fault. The kids realize the games being played. DSD14 actually said on Father's Day that the games "suck because they get stuck in the middle." Their mom is vindictive and if they choose to side with us, she yells and treats them like crap from a few hours/days.

In this instance we spoke to the kids last week, told them we were going to stick to the custody agreement. If they miss out on something it is not our fault. It's their mom's fault for 2 reasons. Due to all of her games, we are forced to enforce the custody agreement as it is written - no exceptions. And secondly, their mom continues to choose to make plans on our weekends.

She treatened last night to take us back to court to get every other weekend. She does not want them that much, but ok. DH says that is fine, we will open up the custody agreement for modifications, he has a few also. She asks what, he tells her a few things, then proceeds to tell her he will request the court papers limit the distance which she can move. She has asked/threatened to move the kids across the country. Once he said that she shut-up, she was just making a threat, give me what I want or you may lose weekend visitations.

I suggested to DH about a year ago, me and him, her and her bf all go to family counseling. I'm sure they have a program for blended families. We have to find a way, she said there is no way we will all be in the same room.

I wanted to tell her to Grow Up!

 

[cheapi86]

I personally would keep the adult issues (games being played about vacations, etc) to adults. I would not bring the kids into it by saying "you could go but your mom wont let you, etc". They may realize it, but it's still their mom.

It's very uncomfortable to hear things like that (I had divorced parents), you may look like the bad guy sometimes, but the kids shouldn't have to deal with adult situations.

 

[Princess Stitch]

Wow, tell her to plan her vacation around when the kids are going to be at her house. If it's inconvenient for her, she can give you 60 days notice and at that time offer you an alternative choice of weeks which you can agree on. I also think it's great that you're involving the kids. My parents were divoriced as well and I woudlnt' have liked being left out of the loop on stuff liek this. It doesn't sound like you're putting the kids in the middle, just explaining things to them.

My step-father's ex wife (they have 3 kids) gives them problems all the time too. She's always taking the kids back to our house early after their weekend with her (the kids live with my mom and step dad primarily). She's also planning a trip this summer but "doesn't know when yet". I know they want to go last-minute, but you must have some kind of timeframe in mind! If she wants to change the custody order, tell her you're perfectly happy to go back to court if SHE pays for it, otherwise leave it as it is and either strictly enforce it or find some compromise that works for both families.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

take her court and this fixed
have dates and examples to back up how she isnt sticking to the agreement

 

[haley's mom]

Well I leave soon to pick up the kids. With her being mad, it's anyones guess if they will be there or not.

I did tell her on the phone one night that if she decides to take the kids on our weekend without prior approval we will call the cops. She said with DH call the cops on the mother of his kids? I said if not, I will call the cops of the crazy ex-wife.

 

[Memaw2Wm]

Been there done that. We finally had to just stick to the schedule without any switching around. Everyone knew what their time was and had to make their plans accordingly. We were always willing to accomodate DH's ex-wife requests to change the schedule or swap days and then she refused to do the same. When she called to ask for a change we just said sorry, we've made plans and can't change them.

As for your summer vacation time if she won't budge you'll need to get your lawyer involved (we had to do this too). To simplify things we took the 2nd week of July each year and the second week of August each year. That way everyone knew when their time was. It was the only thing that ended up working for us.

That's my advice too ... stick to the letter of the custody agreement ... frequently that's the best thing you can do if the other party is only willing to make changes that suit them.