OT: Child care crisis at work.

[eliza61]

I need help from all the moms of young kids (my kids are grown). I'm trying to prevent a mutiny. I work in a lab for a major pharmecuetical company. There are 7 other women/young ladies who work with me. All of us are moms but 5 of us are moms of older kids (late teenagers/early adults). The problem is the 2 moms who have toddlers, we feel use their kids as some sort of "get out of jail free" card.
If the weather is bad, they always leave early because they have small kids.
They are constantly late, because they have small kids.
They always must leave early on Fridays because, yep you guess it they have small kids.
Now the other employees are really starting to get pissed. I'm the lead chemist so I'm getting all the gripes plus now I'm supposed to hire 2 more employees and I have to say, I would probably not hire any one with small kids if I can avoid it.

Any advice on what to say? I hate being the bad guy and I'm trying to see both sides of the coin especially since I realize that nowadays it some times takes 2 paychecks to survive. The young ladies are good workers in every other aspect.

E

 

[NJfamily2007]

I don't have much advice. I am currently home with my two kids, but I worked full time as a teacher when my son was a toddler. My husband and I took turns picking him up if he was sick. If the weather was bad, I usually had the day off.

I agree that some take advantage of these situations. It must really stink to be one without kids or with grown kids who has to take over when a co-worker has to leave. If a person is not doing her job, she needs to be reprimanded. If you can't handle parenthood and working, then something needs to change.

On a lighter note...my daughter's name is Eliza. Is that your name? We love her name. I chose it because my favorites, Ella, Ava and Emma got very popular and we wanted something unique.

 

[NotUrsula]

Let them know that if they come in late or leave early, they need to make the time up within 5 working days. Allow this for everyone else, too, for doctor appts., etc. up to whatever time limit requires taking vacation or sick leave (usually absences of under 4 hours.)

Make sure that you make it clear that Dad (or someone else) will need to help out on make-up days -- I'm sure you know that little kids and labs don't really mix, but IME it has to be spelled out to a lot of parents.

PS: If they claim that the Friday thing is because the daycare closes early on Fridays, ask to see that in writing from the daycare. I've heard that claim a lot, but I've never had anyone able to prove it, except for the days preceding major holidays.

 

[mommytobug]

Ok, boss here so I know all about this; if they come in late or leave early too often, it is because they are allowed to. When did bad weather become an excuse for leaving early? I have had a small child and I have employees who do. I am very very family friendly but I am not dumn either. Employee satisfaction is very important and for others to feel frustrated is not good. You cant legally ask about kids so some people may not share that. I would have a meeting and discuss the new rules. I never felt my child suffered because I always had very undrestanding bosses who allowed flexibility. BUt, I NEVER took advantage.

 

[Manda]

Ok, boss here so I know all about this; if they come in late or leave early too often, it is because they are allowed to.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

This has nothing to do with them having young children. I have a young child and I work. I can't remember ever being late because of him, but if I did, I would have to stay late to make it up or take vacation time. Whether my kid makes me late, my cat makes me late, snow makes me late, or the trains make me late... the excuse doesn't really matter.

These people are taking advantage of a situation. I can't blame them really though. Management should be controlling the situation and enforcing fair rules across all employees regardless of their family situation.

 

[eliza61]

Thanks Guys,
NJfamily, yep Eliza is it. My mom was a lover of musicals and I'm named after the character in My fair lady, Eliza doolittle. Now if I only looked like Audrey Hepburn

I think that's were the bad feelings are coming in, since all of us are moms and we really have a lot of freedom around our hours, we generally are very sympathetic and understanding to family issues and we try to accommodate alot of situations. The general consensus is that these 2 are taking advantage of the "flex time" benefit. I'm hoping that once I point out the problem, they'll be a little more respectful.

 

[brymolmom]

I work part-time - so I hear all sides of this. Some fellow employees do the 'I wish' thing when I come in for my 3 day week but here's the point - THEY COULD DO IT TOO if they wanted to give up a LOT of benefits and salary, they choose not to, but it doesn't stop them from complaining to me about my wanting to setup this situation I have.

A couple questions here: Are all the other women REALLY always on time and stay just on time (no doctor appoitments, no playoff games that their teenagers are playing in, no oversleeping (something those of us with young kids can't ever do ), etc? Also, are any of them smokers? The thing I have seen when I've had friends and coworkers question parents of young kids getting 'special' treatment is that they choose to focus ONLY on those things. I point out that person X constantly comes in late but has no children and that person Y takes a ton of cigarette breaks that none of the other non-smokers take. There are people who take advantage too often - but this is not contained to the parents - people all across the board take advantage - it is the personality, not the circumstance. My gut is that if these moms are really taking too much advantage - they would be doing so even if they didn't have kids - they'd have a different excuse.

It all comes down to - how good are they at what they do and how badly do you want to keep them? A certain degree of 'bending' IMO is a good thing for all employees, obviously this can be taken too far. I am good at what I do and my boss knows it so when I take time off to see my Kindergartner on the bus for the first time - he understands that and he knows that I still perform at or above the level of most others. And, he also knows that I do not take the 5 - 10 cigarette breaks that many around the office do as well.

I guess my point is to forget the kid thing for a moment and focus on the people, their habits and their work effort. If it is still way one-sided - have a word with them and ask them to curb it back to a degree.

 

[Whosemom]

I am not dumn either.

I don't usually pick at spelling or grammar, because I'm a bad speller. But given the context, this is too funny.

On topic though, I agree with the pp. Are they really taking more time than anyone else, or are they just more obvious? And is their quality of work such that it matters? Are others left with more work, or are they just annoyed?

 

[DISNEYFOS]

I'm a mother of small children. I work for a large company that is very family friendly. The focus is on the quality, consisentency of our work and whether we are able to get our jobs done. It is never about "face time". If my child is sick, if they have an activity at school etc. My management has no problem with me leaving.

I have a job to do and I'm required to do it...they don't care if I'm doing it at 8PM at night because I was on my daughters field trip. If someones child is sick, they work from home.

I think in order to retain highly educated talented women/mothers in our workforce...more companies need to think this way rather than focus on a time clock. They are a lot of studies out there that when a company institutes flextime/flexible hours they get more productivity from their employees rather than less.

Sorry for the :soapbox Its a crusade of mine

In this instance, I think its important to focus on how they are performing? If it the type of work that is only done in the lab, if they leave early one day do they come in early the next? try to make up the time and the work? Are they much more efficient than others?

 

[Aristomommy]

I am a working mom of two small(er) children. There has not been a day in my career that I have been late because of my children (without a valid reason and that's rare). I've been late because of weather or unusual traffic, but not because of my kids. I leave early for this reason. My co-workers know that if I am absent because my child is ill, it has to be something serious, and they know I am willing to work extra or cover their vacations by working late or weekends to help out.

There is NO reason to be late on a regular basis because of children. If there is a snow day, there are daycares, grandma's house etc. that will help with that. It may be more expensive that way rather than staying at home, but kids are expensive anyway.... I just don't care for people who will use their kids as an excuse for everything.

It depends on the type of job these people are doing, how I would approach it. I wouldn't treat someone differently because they have small children, but maybe there is a way that they can make up the time they missed. Maybe they need to use up their vacation time if they are absent? Believe me, I am all for flex time, job sharing etc. but whatever agreement you have with your employer, you should show up when expected.

 

[LilGMom]

I'm a working mother and while there are times when I've come into work late or left early to take one of my kids to a doctor's appointment or because they are sick I either make that time up or I have to use PTO (paid time off). Having small children is not an excuse to leave early due to bad weather. There have also been times when I've taken off time from work to attend a fieldtrip, but again that is either time that I make up (either at home or by adjusting the rest of the week's hours) or I have to use PTO. I do understand the coming in late if their child's daycare doesn't open up early enough or is far from the office (btdt) but again that is when they need to adjust the rest of the schedule (if permitted to do so) to make up for that time.

Is flextime an option? Are these women performing their jobs properly? If morale is suffering than something definately needs to be done, like flextime for all. Example: One mother wants to leave early because she has a young child, another mother should get to leave early for some other reason (i.e. shopping trip, movie, etc.) and both reasons should be treated equally.

I wouldn't shut the door on hiring everyone with small children. I bust my butt to prove myself and feel that sometimes I am going above and beyond just so that people won't think that I am ever using my kids as an excuse for special treatment.

Just my two cents.

 

[mom2aredhead]

I work part-time - so I hear all sides of this. Some fellow employees do the 'I wish' thing when I come in for my 3 day week but here's the point - THEY COULD DO IT TOO if they wanted to give up a LOT of benefits and salary, they choose not to, but it doesn't stop them from complaining to me about my wanting to setup this situation I have.

That's so funny. It's the exact schedule (and problem) I have in my office. ! work 3 days a week - Sat/Mon/Tues - 8 hours per day (varying times). I am able to do this because it is one of the benefits offered by my company and i was willing to work on Saturdays, something that most everyone else didn't want to do but had to on a rotating basis before I came back from maternity leave.

In exchange for only working 60% of my hours, I get 60% of my vacation time, 60% of any bonuses paid out, 60% of the money we receive toward health/dental etc. benefits, and the big whopper that people seem to forget ONLY 60% OF MY SALARY! Yet I still hear the "your so lucky" comments all the time. Yup, give up your Saturdays and 40% of your salary and you too can have my life.

I don't complain because it works fine for my family since my husband has benefits, and when I did the math and figured out the daycare costs for 5 full days vs 2 full days as an infant, I probably ended up with the same amount of money on my pocket.

If my son's school/daycare is closed, I plan ahead to take vacation time. If someone else is off, my husband takes vacation time.

And I agree with DISNEYFOS's post, but in a lot of companies, "face time" is equally important as quality of work. I'm not saying this is the right approach, but unfortunately it is what I've experienced in the very male dominated auto industry. I need to sit here for 24 hours/week to provide "coverage".

 

[eliza61]

A couple questions here: Are all the other women REALLY always on time and stay just on time (no doctor appoitments, no playoff games that their teenagers are playing in, no oversleeping (something those of us with young kids can't ever do ), etc? Also, are any of them smokers? The thing I have seen when I've had friends and coworkers question parents of young kids getting 'special' treatment is that they choose to focus ONLY on those things. I point out that person X constantly comes in late but has no children and that person Y takes a ton of cigarette breaks that none of the other non-smokers take. There are people who take advantage too often - but this is not contained to the parents - people all across the board take advantage - it is the personality, not the circumstance. My gut is that if these moms are really taking too much advantage - they would be doing so even if they didn't have kids - they'd have a different excuse.
.

Unfortunately, I do think this is the case. My job is pretty family friendly, you can make your own hours but it must add up to 35 hours/week (we still get paid for a 40 hour week) and it's not leaving 30 minutes early, it's usually 90 minutes early. Most of us who have doctor's/dentist/teacher confrences etc will usually flex their schedule to sat or sunday. When my youngest had his braces (why do orthodontist never have evening hours?) I would take the day off on his appointments and then work either friday nights or Saturday to make the time up. I agree it's definitely not contain to just us parents unfortunately I think the young ladies always peg the kids as an excuse because they know it's hard to argue with.

Basically they do the work but as some one said, this is a fortune 500 company, "face time" is a definite. and of course there are other pressures (we're the only lead lab with all women in control, I think it freaks the guys out a little). I'm just hoping that since they are still pretty young (24 & 25) they just might need a little maturity update. They both had their kids while in college and this is their first corporate America job.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

Unfortunately, I do think this is the case. My job is pretty family friendly, you can make your own hours but it must add up to 35 hours/week (we still get paid for a 40 hour week) and it's not leaving 30 minutes early, it's usually 90 minutes early. Most of us who have doctor's/dentist/teacher confrences etc will usually flex their schedule to sat or sunday. When my youngest had his braces (why do orthodontist never have evening hours?) I would take the day off on his appointments and then work either friday nights or Saturday to make the time up. I agree it's definitely not contain to just us parents unfortunately I think the young ladies always peg the kids as an excuse because they know it's hard to argue with.

Basically they do the work but as some one said, this is a fortune 500 company, "face time" is a definite. and of course there are other pressures (we're the only lead lab with all women in control, I think it freaks the guys out a little). I'm just hoping that since they are still pretty young (24 & 25) they just might need a little maturity update. They both had their kids while in college and this is their first corporate America job.

So it does sound like they are abusing the flextime system you have in place. Maybe a reminder from their manager regarding your policy you have in place.

Not sure what "face time" has to do with Fortune 500 companies. Mine is in the top 15. In my view, a successful company would be more focused on productivity, output, efficiency rather than whether someone is sitting at their desk at 2PM. Of course, in some roles its required...sales, customer service, receptionist or some direct contact with the public..but if its just to have everyone looking busy when the big boss walks around well thats rather silly. My industry is IT so that could have a lot to do with the differing of opinions.

 

[seashoreCM]

What counts is whether each person is getting his share of the work done.

If these other workers are leaving early on one day, are they staying later on another day when someone else needs to leave early or staying later on another day to get a head start on the next day's workload?

When desks or counters or phones need to be covered, do the workers get together with each other to provide the needed coverage even with flex time?

If some workers consistently work fewer hours than a normal work week, then perhaps they should be reclassified as part time.

There is nothing that forbids paying exempt employees extra for some of the extra hours beyond the normal work week although the extra pay does not have to be time and a half. This could eliminate the animosity that may occur when others leave early and leave work undone.

Day care facilities often assess large penalties for not picking up your child punctually. So some parents need to leave work early under certain weather conditions. Do we want to (1) declare those employees inherently unfit for that regular job or (2) mandate flexibility on the part of the day care center, or (3) expect the regular job to have flexibility?

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[ldo]

Our work used to be more face-time and now it is more flexible.
One issue is whether a company is willing to make an "investment" to retain talented persons. And, yes, it does cause resentment from others.
I agree that working mothers need considerations--I have 3 kids and there are times the bus is late, etc.--but it should be reciprocated--arriving/leaving early means putting in extra time another day, bringing lunch and taking only 15 minutes vs. 1 hour, or taking work home.

 

[badblackpug]

I'm not really understanding the flex time thing. I am a nurse, I work a shift. I work from 7-7. If I plan to leave early or come in late I have to find someone (who will not be paid overtime rates) to cover that portion of my shift. If by "flex time" it means that your employees make their own hours, as long as they add up to 35, what is the issue if they come late or leave early, as long as their hours add up? Regardless of their excuse. If their hours are not adding uo to the requisite hours then they need to be disciplined or their pay needs to be docked. Please explain the flex time to me.

Now, flextime aside. If these employees are chronically late, then you need to enforce disciplinary action. There is no excuse for chronic lateness. Everyone has an extraordinary event every once in a while, such as an accident that blocks traffic or something, but not on a regular basis. I also understand leaving early in extreme weather, such as a snowstorm that closes kids' schools, but in most cases, no. My kids went to daycare. They never closed early on Fridays. The closing time was the same every day. Maybe you need to sit down and draft a memo about the use of flextime, and about lateness and absenteeism policies, and forward it to EVERYONE in your department. Make it clear that EVERYONE is expected, from now on, to adhere to approved policy.

 

[eliza61]

Please explain the flex time to me.

Now, flextime aside. If these employees are chronically late, then you need to enforce disciplinary action. There is no excuse for chronic lateness. Everyone has an extraordinary event every once in a while, such as an accident that blocks traffic or something, but not on a regular basis. I also understand leaving early in extreme weather, such as a snowstorm that closes kids' schools, but in most cases, no. My kids went to daycare. They never closed early on Fridays. The closing time was the same every day. Maybe you need to sit down and draft a memo about the use of flextime, and about lateness and absenteeism policies, and forward it to EVERYONE in your department. Make it clear that EVERYONE is expected, from now on, to adhere to approved policy.

Hey Philly,
We're neighbors (right over the Walt whitman bridge). Flex time was instituted at our job to make it a little easier on families to work. At my job you can arrive between 5:00 am - 9:00 am and you can also take time off during the day for family emergencies. This is all at the Discretion of your manager, because the lab has to be covered. It unfortunately not the type of job that can be done at home. It is a pharmaceutical lab. Chemistry, lab test, trials etc. Like your job if some one is out the trials still have to be done, which means some one else has to pick up the slack. This is where the resentment is coming in, people are g etting pissed at always having to cover or do more work because these ladies have child care issue.
I have a 1:00 pm meeting today to go over the benefits today, for every one and to explain what I expect going forward. Hopefully this will help.

 

[eliza61]

I'm a mother of small children. I work for a large company that is very family friendly. The focus is on the quality, consisentency of our work and whether we are able to get our jobs done. It is never about "face time". If my child is sick, if they have an activity at school etc. My management has no problem with me leaving.

I have a job to do and I'm required to do it...they don't care if I'm doing it at 8PM at night because I was on my daughters field trip. If someones child is sick, they work from home.

I think in order to retain highly educated talented women/mothers in our workforce...more companies need to think this way rather than focus on a time clock. They are a lot of studies out there that when a company institutes flextime/flexible hours they get more productivity from their employees rather than less.

Sorry for the :soapbox Its a crusade of mine

In this instance, I think its important to focus on how they are performing? If it the type of work that is only done in the lab, if they leave early one day do they come in early the next? try to make up the time and the work? Are they much more efficient than others?

Now think how would you feel if your sick child was depending on lab results that couldn't be done because some one left for the day early. If it was only now and then, I don't think it would be a problem, after all we are all moms here so we know the drill. Don't apologize for the soapbox, Its a worthy crusade, that's why I really want to find an good way to resolve this. I think moms should stick together.

E

 

[kab407]

I usually don't post on this board. However this is a topic that I am facing now.

I am also the boss. I have several people working with me with young children and have had several of the same incidents. Rather then get in to a argument, I simply pull out the company policy on working hours, core business hours for my site and flex time. This is not my policy but corporate policy that everyone signed when they started working for the company.

I understand that kids get sick, school is cancelled due to weather and there are once in a life time moments that you do not want to miss. The company offers a generous amount of vacation and PTO. I will work with you when special circumstances exist, but do not take advantage of me.