OT- Are all 5th grade girls so mean?! Vent...

[angiejg]

Hi everyone,

I need a little support here. I'm about ready to email the teacher, so I thought I better calm down and vent here first.

DD is in 5th grade. Today was the first day back from winter break. Already a girl (usually ugly to DD, even though they have been in class together since kindergarten and were once close friends) is pressuring her into giving up her seat so she can set with the girl my daughter sits by. They are good friends and have enjoyed being together. The friend is very easy going and doesn't seem to realize that the other girl is trying to move in on the friendship. She thinks it would be good to trade too. Now DD is upset and feels like her friend is being taken away by this other girl who is very manipulative. I know it sounds petty, but why do girls feel the need to gang up on others? This little girl is not content unless she is "messing" with DD. It happens all the time. Do I tell the teacher that I don't want her moved or let DD handle it? The teacher pretty much has a policy of sitting where they like if they can get their work done (not changing frequently though). There was no problem until the hateful girl started kissing up to DD's friend. (Boy when I type this it just sounds petty!) I guess I'm just wondering when do you stand your ground, when do you back down, and when should a mother step in? I feel like 5th grade is just a battle all the time with ugliness, hatefulness, competitiveness, etc. Is anyone else's daughter dealing with these issues?

And another "friend" ended school before break giving DD dirty looks. We were glad for break to arrive. Today, the dirty looks started again. What is this?! DD is upset by it and doesn't have a clue what she did to upset this friend. I know it sounds like everything is always happening to my daugher, but I feel like it is! We try to teach her to treat others in a respectful manner. She helps tutor a couple of girls in her room that are having difficulty with their math, and has offered to partner with the new girl who didn't have a partner. I know she is a nice girl. So do I tell her to sink to their level or keep doing what she is doing? I've told her to be nice to everyone, ignore ugliness, but to not take hateful talk off of anyone.

She does have a few girls in her class that she really likes and I try to steer her toward them.

Any advice or similar stories?

Thanks for letting me vent like a crazy person!

 

[RMulieri]

Yes girls are mean.I had a bunch gang up on me in 7 th grade(many moons ago) and try to throw me out a 2nd floor bathroom window.I really have no advice except that as a kid when my Mom intervened on my behalf the girls behavior got worse not better.I found a very interesting book called "Queen Bees and wannabes" which is a very interesting read on how to deal with this behavior.I am sorry for you and your DD,it is always awful watching your child go thru these things.

 

[Iott Family]

If you think 5th grade girls are mean you havent seen anything, yet! And its not ALL girls who are mean. It just takes one manipulative bee and the whole hive will start buzzing. YOur daughter really needs to learn now how to handle life, or when she is 30 she will be the outcast in the office pool. Have her stand her ground because as minor as this whole seating thing seems its really a power struggle with this other girl. If your DD doesnt put a lid on her antics now the mean girl will forever be bubbling over.
As a mother, I would give the teacher a heads up about the situation without any venting on your part just so she can monitor the issue and be clued in if it should expand.
On an ending note, I feel your pain. I am a mother of a teen and a girl scout leader/volunteer and I see this trash too often.

 

[mjkacmom]

And so it begins, and it only gets worse. I suggest the book Odd Girl Out, which gives girls tools on how to deal with bullies. Unless your dd is in physical danger, it's best that she learns to deal with these issues - they never end!

 

[pweyl36]

Sometimes my daughter would come home and tell how some girl would ignore her and I would just tell why would you want to be friends with somebody like that? She has lots of friends and I do tell her if somebody says mean things to you all you have to do is look them right in thier face and just laugh . Dd is also in 5th grade,but really havent in counter and mean girls.But next yr will be a different story, jounior high . My oldest son had a bully in his fathers naborhood, so one day his dad had enough went to the bullies father and told him every time your son picks on my son Ill be down to kick your a** .Well ds was never picked on again.

 

[girlsx2]

Been there, done that and have two more girls to get through it.

My three are 16, 12 and 7. My 16yr is in HS. If you think 5th grade is bad, you haven't seen anything yet. The BS just keeps getting worse. My daughter was pulled backwards down a flight of stairs by her hair by some girl she didn't even know because my daughter said hello to her boyfriend. And because she fought back she was suspended from school for three days.

My 12yr is in middle school, 7th grade. They have a softball team. There was enough 6th graders last year to make up the entire JV team. My daughter has been in school with many of them since kindergarten. Well, my daughter was chosen to move up to the varsity team to be the catcher. All the girls on the JV team that she has been friends with forever now wouldn't talk to her and even went as far as to start calling her names and tell her what a bad player she is.

I will say, my oldest DD has learned to deal with it for the most part, especially after the fight. My middle DD still has lots to learn. It is hard to set back and watch as your child is hurting.

I do agree with the above poster who said that her mom interfered and things got worse. I too, thought I was doing the right thing and went to the school and talked to the other girls parents but all to no avail and it only got worse for her.

Hang in there!! It will get better!!

 

[richmond282]

I agree w/ the PP about maybe just giving the teacher a heads up, but no demands or threats. I think if there was no physical contact or verbal threats, you should just let the situation work itself out.

 

[tchrrx]

The new American Girl movie came on HBO tonight. I think it will be repeated this weekend & is also for sale on DVD. Anyhow, it deals with bullying. Maybe it would help your daughter find some coping skills and, if nothing else, increase the communication that it seems like you already have.

 

[DisneyKT]

I don't think it's just 5th grade girls but all girls. My DD is in 4th grade and had a similar problem a few weeks ago. Known this girl since pre-school. Now the girl thinks she is the queen bee and tries to boss everyone around.

I just asked my DD do you want me to give the teacher a heads up or do you want to handle it. She said she would handle it. So far it has been ok. Just tell your DD to hang in there. And if she doesn't want to move her seat then tell her not to.

 

[mom2minniemouse]

No real advice, other than we're going through the same thing w/DD, and she's only in FOURTH grade.

It really stinks because, as the mama and papa bears, we feel like tracking these little snotty girls and running them over with our cars. The rational side of us knows we can't, but it sucks seeing our own kids upset every stinking day just because someone chooses not to be nice.

I'm expecting, and thank GOD it's a boy! I LOVE my daughter, but I don't think I could go through this hormonal rollercoaster for an extra decade. LOL!

 

[angiejg]

Thank you everyone! I'm so glad I posted here before flying off and emailing the teacher.

My daughter says she will handle it. When the girl tells her that she's taking her spot tomorrow, my daughter is going to tell her that she doesn't want to move right now. Supposedly the girl says she can't see from where's she sitting, so I told DD to suggest trading with someone on the front row. That, of course, will ruin her plan of stealing DD's partner.

Anyway, DD says she doesn't want me to say anything to the teacher unless it gets ugly. I am proud of her for taking care of it.

I think I better get some Xanax so my nerves can take this. Soooo glad my second is a boy. Not so much drama!

Please keep the advice coming, and again, THANK YOU for helping me cope with my frustration/anger/sadness/worry this evening!

xoxoxoxoxo!

(If only I could get on a plane for Disney. Sigh. Come on June!!!!!)

 

[melbournekiwi]

Hi there. It's universal. Girls are mean at any age. I don't know what your 5th Grade is, but ours is 10 and 11 year olds.

I find even with my 9 year old daughter that the girls are really mean. I think they find the children that will react or seem the most sensitive and they act on it.

You mentioned that your daughter helps other kids in class. Both my daughters 'tutor' other kids in their class and maybe this is also a case of 'tall poppy syndrome'.

Insecure kids tend to pick on others to make themselves feel better.

I've taught my girls to use humour and laugh or make a funny comment - it seems to work.

... we're going to Disney World in June for the first time ever (part of a 6 week trip in USA). Can't wait and am soaking up all the info on these forums.

Happy new year all!

 

[ardig123]

Supposedly the girl says she can't see from where's she sitting

Funny because in the American Girl movie about bullying the one "mean girl" said the same thing...the teacher moved her to a new seat and she complained that she would be unable to see from that seat...the teacher replied with "Then we will make sure to send a note home to your mom so she can take you to have your vision checked!!" That kept her quiet!!! But like somebody commented above...the Chrissa Stands Strong movie by AG is a great movie and does teach how to deal with bullies in a very positive way!

 

[jeepgirl30]

My DD is in 3rd grade and has been telling me horrible stories since 1st grade.

She has soft teeth and sometimes they appear yellowish. In her first grade pic you can see a bit of discoloration. She came home with a crumpled pic and said one of the girls crumbled it up and threw it at her saying she looked ugly with yellow teeth. I cried. DD just said "that was rude she should have just said she didn't want it so I could give it to someone else". I was very proud of her but my heart was breaking.

Last year she got picked on because I am a working mom. Most the other girls parents were SAHMs and they'd have afternoon playdates. One mom would host 4 other girls everyday and they'd rotate. Since I worked I could not. One mother called me about a playdate and I explained I worked. She asked if she could pick my DD up from daycare and then i'd pick her up on my way home. I was excited but explained I would not be able to get there until close to 6pm. She insisted it was no problem. Well the woman started calling me at 5 and became very rude saying I needed to pick up my child as she had her almost all day and needed to go somewhere. Her DD was really nasty the rest of the year to my DD and said how they'd never have her over because I didn't come until late. I got there at 5:30 and reminded the mother I had told her it would be close to 6. She said she didn't think I was serious

This year DD has been mentioning the kids teasing her for the clothes she wears (dresses, skirts with leggins, etc). She doesn't want to wear jeans, they do. She said there are 3 groups, Desires Populars and Claires Cool Kids then her and a special needs child.

DH keeps telling her to stay friends with the special needs child and not let the other kids be mean to her. He reminds me it hurts me and effects me more than it does DD. I hope he is right. She seems to shrug most of it off but I keep thinking it has to hurt and hope it doesn't continue.

 

[crisi]

Thank you everyone! I'm so glad I posted here before flying off and emailing the teacher.

My daughter says she will handle it. When the girl tells her that she's taking her spot tomorrow, my daughter is going to tell her that she doesn't want to move right now. Supposedly the girl says she can't see from where's she sitting, so I told DD to suggest trading with someone on the front row. That, of course, will ruin her plan of stealing DD's partner.

Anyway, DD says she doesn't want me to say anything to the teacher unless it gets ugly. I am proud of her for taking care of it.

I think I better get some Xanax so my nerves can take this. Soooo glad my second is a boy. Not so much drama!

Please keep the advice coming, and again, THANK YOU for helping me cope with my frustration/anger/sadness/worry this evening!

xoxoxoxoxo!

(If only I could get on a plane for Disney. Sigh. Come on June!!!!!)

The one interference you can do, that would be welcome (as long as your daughter really does like this girl and its reciprocated), is to encourage the girl your daughter sits next to to come over for a sleepover, go out for a movie. Work on strengthening the friendship outside of school. It may not make them Best Friends Forever - plenty of things come along to divide girls over time.

Also keep in mind that we only ever get one side of the story. My daughter has some social issues - and some of them ARE kids being mean to her. But some of them are her own issues - she can be bossy and disrespectful. Sometimes kids grow apart - their interests change - and instead of saying "we don't have much in common this year" it becomes "she's mean!" The world of young girls is very black and white.

ETA: The response to someone looking at you funny is to say "Are you OK?" Either they will have to up the insult level to something that the teacher might overhear and might take steps against (i.e. "You are ugly") or they need to back down. If they continue, it continues to be "Are you OK?" "Are you really OK?" If they up the insult level, then the response is "excuse me?" - like you didn't quite catch it (and obviously, you didn't, because a good mannered person would never insult anyone - and our assumption is everyone is good mannered) - once again, they either need to up the insult level (eventually they will up to to the point the teacher takes notice) or back down.

 

[angiejg]

The one interference you can do, that would be welcome (as long as your daughter really does like this girl and its reciprocated), is to encourage the girl your daughter sits next to to come over for a sleepover, go out for a movie. Work on strengthening the friendship outside of school. It may not make them Best Friends Forever - plenty of things come along to divide girls over time.

Also keep in mind that we only ever get one side of the story. My daughter has some social issues - and some of them ARE kids being mean to her. But some of them are her own issues - she can be bossy and disrespectful. Sometimes kids grow apart - their interests change - and instead of saying "we don't have much in common this year" it becomes "she's mean!" The world of young girls is very black and white.

ETA: The response to someone looking at you funny is to say "Are you OK?" Either they will have to up the insult level to something that the teacher might overhear and might take steps against (i.e. "You are ugly") or they need to back down. If they continue, it continues to be "Are you OK?" "Are you really OK?" If they up the insult level, then the response is "excuse me?" - like you didn't quite catch it (and obviously, you didn't, because a good mannered person would never insult anyone - and our assumption is everyone is good mannered) - once again, they either need to up the insult level (eventually they will up to to the point the teacher takes notice) or back down.

Nope. This is definitely not my daughter's own issue. This little girl left my daughter and her seat partner out of her big birthday party in September, but is now trying to tear their friendship apart, possible because she made a mistake. The "mean" girl has been to Bible school with us, sleepovers, swimming, movies, etc., etc. I do think it is a jealousy issue that is causing her to act ugly. And I see these things myself as I am also the Girl Scout leader for these girls and have been for years. I know my daugher isn't perfect, but she hasn't developed these sneaky tactics yet. I think she may be a little behind in the devious department! I wish it were only a growing apart issue. We've discussed how this happens and DD has a few friends that this has happened with. No problems, just not much in common anymore.

Anyway, things were ok when she headed off to school this morning. I'll update on any "drama"! Thanks again everyone!

 

[crisi]

Nope. This is definitely not my daughter's own issue. This little girl left my daughter and her seat partner out of her big birthday party in September, but is now trying to tear their friendship apart, possible because she made a mistake. The "mean" girl has been to Bible school with us, sleepovers, swimming, movies, etc., etc. I do think it is a jealousy issue that is causing her to act ugly. And I see these things myself as I am also the Girl Scout leader for these girls and have been for years. I know my daugher isn't perfect, but she hasn't developed these sneaky tactics yet. I think she may be a little behind in the devious department! I wish it were only a growing apart issue. We've discussed how this happens and DD has a few friends that this has happened with. No problems, just not much in common anymore.

Anyway, things were ok when she headed off to school this morning. I'll update on any "drama"! Thanks again everyone!

I'm not saying your daughter is being sneaky - just that without being there, you are only hearing about her perceptions. Even with being there, you can only see and perceive what you see and perceive.

 

[angiejg]

I'm not saying your daughter is being sneaky - just that without being there, you are only hearing about her perceptions. Even with being there, you can only see and perceive what you see and perceive.

No, no. What I'm saying is the other girl is sneaky and my daughter doesn't get that yet. She hasn't learned how to "play the game" yet. I KNOW my daughter isn't sneaky. Thanks for your input, but this isn't about perceptions.

 

[AuroraBeauty]

There is an excellent book called Queen Bees and Wannabees. It was the basis for the movie Mean Girls. The lady who wrote the book is a psychology professional and the book really opens your eyes to the girl's (and there is stuff for boys too) perspective and how as a parent you can really help.

Posts like this make me feel old b/c I want to start everything with, 'Well, in my day....'.

Check out the book, it really is an eye opener.

 

[janets]

And let me tell you as a mom of a 5th grade boy, it's not just the girls.

My son comes home with stories of the stuff the boys say to him. He might be a bit bossy and can act silly, but he's basically a good kid. Yet they don't want him as part of their group, pair up so that he's left with no one, that sort of stuff. On Halloween, we were in the neighborhood where some of them live (went with another family) and DS walked up to the house where about 4-5 of them were (planning on going TorTing) and asked if he could join them. They basically told him that they didn't want him there, that there were too many people already and to leave.

He came back almost in tears. Yet when they showed up at our friend's door, there were no adults (so it wasn't the issue of parents not wanting to supervise another kid) and it was only about 5 kids. And none of them seemed to think that this behavior was nasty.

So believe me, it's boys too.