OT- Are all 5th grade girls so mean?! Vent...

[tchrrx]

A side trip here....

I had a child bring me a note from her parent today saying that another student was bullying her. There are definite issues on both sides of the story. What really bothered me was that the note-giving child handed me the letter with a flourish, a grin, & the comment, "And justice is served!" Ooohhh....that went all over me b/c it made it even more apparent that it was not only the 'bully' that's a problem, but that this child has her own personal agenda too.

 

[melbournekiwi]

I read these posts with interest. All great ideas - but quite difficult for young kids to put into practice when faced with the situation.

I'm learning with my girls - and I've told them this - that there is very little you can do to stop the bullying. You can only control your own behaviour.

There's a great line in Princess Diaries when Joe says to Mia "Nobody can make you feel inferior unless you let them".

I concentrate on facing reality - there will always be bullies in every situation - and building my own girls' self esteem and life skills.

So far, so good!

 

[my*2*angels]

Just so you know, it is all girls! My dd started K this year, that's right, she is only 5yo and she has come home to tell me the other girls do not want to play with her! My dd is VERY sensitive, and wants to be friends with every child, so it is hard for her to understand when other kids don't reciprocate. She also came home and told me that one little girl said that my dd was not "popular"! My dd has no clue as to what popular even means! I am NOT looking forward to the coming years!

 

[miprender]

My DD5 started Kindergarten too and so it has begun for us also!! I know some of it is her problem because she wants to be best friends with this one girl that keeps telling my DD that she doesn't like her. When school first started they had a picnic and when DD saw this girl she started crying and wanted to go home. It just breaks my heart but I told DD she needs to move on to other friends. Luckily there are other great kids in the class.

 

[momx2]

Hi everyone,

I need a little support here. I'm about ready to email the teacher, so I thought I better calm down and vent here first.

DD is in 5th grade. Today was the first day back from winter break. Already a girl (usually ugly to DD, even though they have been in class together since kindergarten and were once close friends) is pressuring her into giving up her seat so she can set with the girl my daughter sits by. They are good friends and have enjoyed being together. The friend is very easy going and doesn't seem to realize that the other girl is trying to move in on the friendship. She thinks it would be good to trade too. Now DD is upset and feels like her friend is being taken away by this other girl who is very manipulative. I know it sounds petty, but why do girls feel the need to gang up on others? This little girl is not content unless she is "messing" with DD. It happens all the time. Do I tell the teacher that I don't want her moved or let DD handle it? The teacher pretty much has a policy of sitting where they like if they can get their work done (not changing frequently though). There was no problem until the hateful girl started kissing up to DD's friend. (Boy when I type this it just sounds petty!) I guess I'm just wondering when do you stand your ground, when do you back down, and when should a mother step in? I feel like 5th grade is just a battle all the time with ugliness, hatefulness, competitiveness, etc. Is anyone else's daughter dealing with these issues?

And another "friend" ended school before break giving DD dirty looks. We were glad for break to arrive. Today, the dirty looks started again. What is this?! DD is upset by it and doesn't have a clue what she did to upset this friend. I know it sounds like everything is always happening to my daugher, but I feel like it is! We try to teach her to treat others in a respectful manner. She helps tutor a couple of girls in her room that are having difficulty with their math, and has offered to partner with the new girl who didn't have a partner. I know she is a nice girl. So do I tell her to sink to their level or keep doing what she is doing? I've told her to be nice to everyone, ignore ugliness, but to not take hateful talk off of anyone.

She does have a few girls in her class that she really likes and I try to steer her toward them.

Any advice or similar stories?

Thanks for letting me vent like a crazy person!

I have a 5th grader and she has had some problems this year also. The teachers tell me that this is the worst year it seems (her school goes to 6th grade). I know middle school is tough, but it seems that 5th grade is where they start marking their territory since by 7th grade they are thrown in with all the other kids from other schools in the county.

My gut instinct is to tell your daughter to stand up for herself. This is not a matter I would go to the teacher about, there are worse trials yet awaiting your DD at school. I think your DD needs to learn to somewhat protect herself at this age. I teach my DD to stand up for herself. I also have taught her that the worst thing she could ever do is bully or be mean to others. Now, I'm sure she is no angel, but she is the kid who befriends the children who don't speak english and protect them, so I must be doing something right, I hope.

 

[smylie1]

I work in a K-5 school and I can tell you, YES, there are those kinds of girls everywhere! As I was reading your OP, names of several girls in my school came to mind. I cannot stand it! I hate the "I'm hot stuff" attitude they get at this age and the "more I make someone else look bad, the better I look." mentality. I can always tell when some of the "groups" are feuding by the looks on their faces. Unfortunately it's always the same ones who look self-satisfied and the same ones who look hurt and upset. You don't see this near as much in the boys.

As a teacher who deals with it all the time, it's hard to watch and even harder to fix. Trust me, teachers do not turn a blind eye to it, it's just only so much you can do about it. Eventhough you'd like to just pinch the trouble-makers heads off!

You might could email the teacher and request that the girl who is wanting to swap seats be moved to another area of the room. It will be up to the teacher, but I'm sure she wants harmony in her classroom as much as you do.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

Yes! Girls are mean. My oldest DD who is 16 is now holding her own but for a while I was going crazy. Three girls have been suspended this year for harassing her. It's been going on since 8th /9th grade.

My younger DD, 10, had her fill last year with ONE girl who was a ringleader & trouble maker. This year has been better but there are still issues with some.
Mainly with the clothes that she wears & shoes and her purses and everything else. My DD likes nice things, don't we all, but the kids are so mean to her and others if they show up to school with the NorthFace jackets, Vera Bradley purses and Wallabees. It's insane. Even my older DD didn't have this trouble, and they are not like that at the HS. Nutts.

I do agree that YOU should not get involved unless they try to hurt your daughter, physically. It does make things worse.

 

[livndisney]

Just so you know, it is all girls! My dd started K this year, that's right, she is only 5yo and she has come home to tell me the other girls do not want to play with her! My dd is VERY sensitive, and wants to be friends with every child, so it is hard for her to understand when other kids don't reciprocate. She also came home and told me that one little girl said that my dd was not "popular"! My dd has no clue as to what popular even means! I am NOT looking forward to the coming years!

We had a bully in K too. This kid was so desperate for attention he made fun of my dd HAIRBOWS LOL. My DD put up with it for awhile and tried to ignore him. She finally looked at him and said "I like my hairbows, if you don't too bad-now sit down and shut up LITTLE BOY" LOL.

 

[Schmeck]

First of all - not all girls are mean, and if you think so, I feel sorry for you. Really, I do, because you must live in a pretty unhealthy place. My oldest daughter is thriving in her school setting, does not fit into any certain 'group' at school, doesn't care about fitting in, has a boyfriend, many male and female friends, and is admired by her peers and faculty. She has never had any situation in school caused by 'mean girls'. There were two times she stood up against a male bully in elementary school (yes, she took down the boy that was twice her weight and size at recess, when she was a tiny 1st grader - maybe that made her a hero?) and learned causes and consequences of actions. I guess I was lucky, as she never felt the need to be popular. Now, she is popular enough, valedictorian, off to MIT in the fall, happy, responsible, and glowing.

My younger daughter is more aware of the popularity thing, but would rather be head of her class rather than play the popularity game. She thrived in middle school, and is rather sad that some of her wonderful group of friends has gone - moving out of state, private schools, etc. She would like to go to private school herself, and we are working on that, but she is torn about leaving two of her dear friends behind. She talks about girls that 'hate' her, but she knows where they are coming from, as it is jealousy that drives them, and insecurity. I tell her to try to think about how bad these girls' lives must be if they are so miserable and eaten up with jealousy because their needs are not being met. How horrible to be so angry just because someone else got Ugg boots for Christmas!

I have always made sure my girls understand that other people's anger and dissatisfaction are not their responsibility. We feel sorry for them, try to help them if we can, and stay friendly and sympathetic.

There's been some wonderful advice given here. To the OP, I second the notion that your own daughter had - stay out of it for now. If you are so nervous about her in school, is there someone you can talk to for counseling, as a parent should not feel so stressed about a child going to school.

 

[wilderness01]

Thank you everyone! I'm so glad I posted here before flying off and emailing the teacher.

My daughter says she will handle it. When the girl tells her that she's taking her spot tomorrow, my daughter is going to tell her that she doesn't want to move right now. Supposedly the girl says she can't see from where's she sitting, so I told DD to suggest trading with someone on the front row. That, of course, will ruin her plan of stealing DD's partner.

Anyway, DD says she doesn't want me to say anything to the teacher unless it gets ugly. I am proud of her for taking care of it.

I think I better get some Xanax so my nerves can take this. Soooo glad my second is a boy. Not so much drama!
Please keep the advice coming, and again, THANK YOU for helping me cope with my frustration/anger/sadness/worry this evening!

xoxoxoxoxo!

(If only I could get on a plane for Disney. Sigh. Come on June!!!!!)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but boys can be just as mean and just as big of drama queens. My son is now in high school so things are fine, but middle school was a nightmare for him.

 

[minniebeth]

OP, boys are a little easier because they are not as dramatic, but they go through many of the same issues the girls do!
My oldest is a boy and middle school is really rough. Definately a misconception that boys do not struggle with this, and sometimes maybe even more so because many boys supress it thinking it's not ok for them to be emtional!
The drama is just more intensified with girls....
My heart goes out to all the kids! Growing up is hard and hard to watch your kids that you love and protect more than anything struggle with it!

 

[MinnieForMe]

Yes, 5th grade girls are nasty! My son is in fifth grade and they tease and pick on him all the time. The funny thing is he's a good looking boy plus he's athletic and someday what goes around will come around!

I would at least bring the situation to the teacher's attention. She might be able to have a talk with the other girl and smooth things out.

 

[fireflymedic]

Been there, done that and have two more girls to get through it.

My daughter was pulled backwards down a flight of stairs by her hair by some girl she didn't even know because my daughter said hello to her boyfriend. And because she fought back she was suspended from school for three days.

OK i dont have school age kids or any girls, but let me say this,

why on earth would we want our kids to become door mats just begging to be steped on, I will teach my kids to defend thimselfs (will not allow bulling)

I dont beleave in this suspending both parties

 

[Schmeck]

OK i dont have school age kids or any girls, but let me say this,

why on earth would we want our kids to become door mats just begging to be steped on, I will teach my kids to defend thimselfs (will not allow bulling)

I dont beleave in this suspending both parties

They suspend both parties because both were involved in the situation. I believe that most students involved will blame the other one for starting it, and of course one would be lying (not saying the PP's daughter was lying at all!) and how would administration know?

Of course we don't want our children to be stepped on, and should defend themselves, but there are better ways to stop bullying. My daughter took down the second grade bully. She got an in-school suspension for the rest of the day, suitable for punching a boy in the private parts.

 

[Wendy_in_Wonderland]

I am a substitute at my daughter's elementary school and I actually love subbing for 4th-5th grade even though they tell me that's pretty unique LOL. I end up subbing for the upper grades at least 3/4 of the time I sub.

It isn't just girls and it isn't all girls and it isn't just in 5th grade. However, there is a definite shift in social structure around late 3rd to early 4th grade. It becomes increasingly intense before it kinda climaxes in middle school and it actually mellows out quite a bit by mid high school years. It's very fluid, I can go one day and two girls are BFF and the next they are worst enemies and or a girl who was smart and funny and loved reading is all the sudden hanging all over the boys. It literally can turn on a dime and it can be so tough for kids to navigate. 5th graders have so much anxiety about the transition to middle school and here they try to help by having them switch classes twice a day to get used to travelling but they know that it will be a new world in 6th grade. It's sad too I have learned to do my best at making it a non-issue while I'm teaching. If they start talking about who is whose friends and who hates who etc I ignore it or very pointedly change the subject. I do my best to give all the kids a safe time to learn and relax before they have to go all guerrilla warfare at recess.

I remember it. I always promised myself that I would try not to forget so that I could try to help from the other side. It can be so brutal. I had a group of girls decide they hated me once, I had hardly spoken to them ever and one day one of them started dating a male friend of mine and I became public enemy #1. They would give me dirty looks, come up to me all fake-sticky-sweet and ask me to never talk to the boy in question again, and then when I refused they would call me a slut and a ***** and yell at me in the halls. After dating two of my male friends one of the girls approached me one morning and asked if we could be friends now that she had broken up with the latest one. I told her it was ridiculous, she had been hateful and cruel to me for weeks for absolutely no reason and now wanted to create a relationship where none existed previously. I had good friends and I was glad I was strong enough to stand up for myself. Another group of girls talked constantly about my breasts, I developed early and obviously. I was called "stuffer" and "milkshake" (as in You want some fries with that shake?) among other charming nicknames.

I think it is important to let the girls handle it themselves unless there is physical danger. It helps their confidence at a time they could really use the boost. It can also get much worse if parents interfere unneccessarily. The "mean girls" will often up their game in response and worse if the parents are fully aware of the situation or how their child may be contributing to it they can inadvertently reinforce their child's negative behaviour. (not saying this is your situation but it is very common so I thought I'd mention it)

I think your daughter is to be admired for her willingness to deal with this herself and her openess in talking to you about it.