I am pretty sure you can walk from all of their resorts to the parks.
Orange County Commissioners vote & rumor leaks...
- Thread starter HopperFan
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wareagle57
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You can walk from all properties. Every property but Cabanna Bay is an easy walk. I don't even bother waiting for the boats. It's also quite scenic. We stayed at CB last year and it was a hike. But I didn't know how reliable the bus service was and didn't want to end up being late so we took matters into our own hand. I would say it was at least a mile, maybe a mile and a half. It SEEMED longer than walking between DHS and Epcot, but I could be wrong.
Chumpieboy
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Skyplex is at the corner of International and Sand Lake just south of Wet & Wild. Universal has been fighting it hard with no real issue - other than competition which really made no sense. Over 50 people came to speak, I think only 4 were against the project: two were Universal lawyers, one a man who lives west of Universal (not near SkyPlex) and other a teen boy who was predicting dead bodies from the crime and rides???? The rest from all walks of life were there to support SkyPlex.
Towards end of meeting there were discussions happening that Universal had bought a large plot of land that became available recently I believe by foreclosure. It is a part of a huge parcel on the other side of Lockheed. Apparently several folks were buzzing and then SkyPlex did their closing arguments. They alluded to it as well with some things SkyPlex lawyer and owner said. Great meeting to watch, worth all 3 hours of it.
We discussed it at our house earlier today that this fight of Universals made no sense unless they felt the project would interfere somehow with some bigger plans they have.
Above links give some of the info put together tonight and what I found when the land came to light.
Quick draw map but:
LIME is Universal Parks, Wet & Wild and parking
YELLOW is SkyPlex property
ORANGE is the Orlando Eye and future Unicorp Project
PINK is part of the large amount of land that is available and they are saying Universal has bought.
Thanks! And wow. What a huge tract of land...
Scalemaster34
°O° + °Õ° = °õ° & °õ° & °õ° & °o°
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Would love to hear Universal officially announce a new 3rd Gate......
Harry Potter was needed to get Disney to pay attention to WDW.... a 3rd Universal gate and another Resort might put even more pressure on Disney to make some MUCH over due improvements to the existing parks.
I
Harry Potter was needed to get Disney to pay attention to WDW.... a 3rd Universal gate and another Resort might put even more pressure on Disney to make some MUCH over due improvements to the existing parks.
I
Universal isn't going to announce it until they are ready which I would suspect being sometime next year seeing how things are playing out.
Flyerjab
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Wow. Disney just announced all of those projects at D23 and I clearly remember Pete Werner on a podcast saying that UNI is mounting a response. Well, it seems that this could very well be the response. Disney announces a total redo of DHS with Star Wars and Toy Story, Pandora/other additions to DAK, Frozen and upgraded Soarin' for Epcot, and another total redo of DTD to Disney Springs. How does UNI match this? More hotels, Volcano Bay, and now a potential freaking 3rd gate? Then the next question is what will WDW do to counter that? Phases 3 and 4 for DHS? A new night time parade for MK? Maybe we finally hear how that additional $350 million for MK and Epcot each will be spent. Or the rumored Frontierland expansion. Who knows what new rumors come true or not. All I know is that I love this.
@HopperFan it sounds like you were actually there, thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm shocked Universal couldn't swing this, perhaps their case was a bit rushed out of the gate due to the changing circumstances surrounding the land purchases. I saw some people complain the initial challenge gave little time for Skyplex to react. It's possible Universal itself didn't have much time to prepare either, seeing how this land probably only became viable a short time ago.
This is new territory for Universal if they decide to go forward. Gate three could send serious shockwaves throughout Orlando. This will essentially sink park 5 at WDW probably for as far as I can see. In 2009, it was easy to go on a all WDW vacation. Now it's becoming increasingly hard to ignore Universal. There aren't enough people, with enough money, with enough time, with enough interest to spend enough days to get full enjoyment out of 8 world class theme parks in the Orlando region.
Frankly, I think Universal is getting greedy here. Many of their best properties are already in use at their existing two parks. Those two parks are finally joining the ranks of the big dogs. Why rock the boat when you're already ahead. Disney's restraint in the west on building a park 3 should be noted. After years of weakness they're enjoying two strong parks with great attendance. Better to have two strong parks then three weak parks. This could be their DAK. Or this could also be their defining moment where they breakaway from WDW's shadow.
Not sure yet.
What I can tell you is these Resort experiences are becoming more and more insular. This is great for Disney and Universal. Sea World and everyone else should be hating life right now.
This is new territory for Universal if they decide to go forward. Gate three could send serious shockwaves throughout Orlando. This will essentially sink park 5 at WDW probably for as far as I can see. In 2009, it was easy to go on a all WDW vacation. Now it's becoming increasingly hard to ignore Universal. There aren't enough people, with enough money, with enough time, with enough interest to spend enough days to get full enjoyment out of 8 world class theme parks in the Orlando region.
Frankly, I think Universal is getting greedy here. Many of their best properties are already in use at their existing two parks. Those two parks are finally joining the ranks of the big dogs. Why rock the boat when you're already ahead. Disney's restraint in the west on building a park 3 should be noted. After years of weakness they're enjoying two strong parks with great attendance. Better to have two strong parks then three weak parks. This could be their DAK. Or this could also be their defining moment where they breakaway from WDW's shadow.
Not sure yet.
What I can tell you is these Resort experiences are becoming more and more insular. This is great for Disney and Universal. Sea World and everyone else should be hating life right now.
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Pete said in the next 18 months someone will be announcing a theme park in orlando whether it be disney or universal and it seems we have our answer.
Phase 3 is supposed to be already budgeted for so this could potentially prompt phase 4 to get the green light and the frontierland expansion.
I don't think we should underestimate Uni yet. This 3rd gate could be home to nintendo propertoes not used in the two existing parks, juassic world, and potentially lord of the rings. Heck they could add a third HP area. With now the info I am hearing about more hotels and another entertainment district Universal is doing a lot.
lockedoutlogic
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I doubt that this skyplex
Project actually gets built...
But if it does it's not a huge deal in the context of universal.
I expect universal to aggressively try to buy up/consolidate the areas highlighted over time if their business continues to grow AND Comcast survived the destruction of cable...
On the Disney front...anyone see the sentinel article about the new water management application yesterday? (I'm assuming most have)...
That is good news for wdw fans...they are responding due to things like this thread. You can't trust an 87 year old cartoon to carry you forever. Nobody is untouchable in perpetuity.
Project actually gets built...
But if it does it's not a huge deal in the context of universal.
I expect universal to aggressively try to buy up/consolidate the areas highlighted over time if their business continues to grow AND Comcast survived the destruction of cable...
On the Disney front...anyone see the sentinel article about the new water management application yesterday? (I'm assuming most have)...
That is good news for wdw fans...they are responding due to things like this thread. You can't trust an 87 year old cartoon to carry you forever. Nobody is untouchable in perpetuity.
I think this was one of the bigger hurdles for skyplex they seem pretty set on constructing it now.
Comcast is what is keeping Universal going. They noticed right away that they need to build and be innovative in order to get people to come. About a week or so ago Universal had one of those behind the scenes specials on the destination network. Disney is known for having those but not universal times are definitely changing.
No I am not finding it either link?
lockedoutlogic
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Lol...I saw it on a Facebook link.
It's from
October...not "news" at all.
Still the first time I really looked at it and it was very intriguing.
Rookie mistake -
My bad
Ok thanks. I links to both permits filed in the DHS construction thread where they show maps and one shows exactly where Toy story land will go which is right where many had said it would behind TSMM.
HopperFan
"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
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I was not in the room but had I been in Orlando I would have been. I was at my computers watching a live feed of the entire thing, also following several in the room who know many and were standing by the the resulting conversations. Let's just say all my computer screens were alive and well and heating up my office. I am periodically involved in zoning issues at home, just finished mostly final round of a 14 year process. In the end I got what I wanted, what the applicant wanted by creative strategy that the lawyers (one of top zoning lawyers in ATL) knew nothing about. But it worked and he thanked me. My point is I do enjoy (which as I type sounds awful) zoning discussions and digging for details regarding them.
I watched every minute of it. I took notes the entire time writing down speakers names, "story" and what they said. A number of them were so interesting and this Universal info at the end is what good movies are made of. They were from all walks of life and it truly was a great 3 hours of Davy & Goliath, with so many of us following shocked at the inability of Universal to get folks to speak for them, even after mailing tens of thousands of mailers. All I've said as I've followed is that all Universals complaints were not valid, should be proven to be not valid, but they kept fighting so this is way bigger than anyone knows. I was truly shocked when the Orange County Planning and Zoning Commission voted 4-3 against the SkyPlex. You always have that rogue one who hates a project but to split a PLANNING commission who are to work from very specific guidelines.... I don't think they had any true grounds given the project is being so well planned on paper - so it makes you wonder how much Universal influenced those members. Especially since the Commission not only overrode their recommendations but it was unanimous. Commissioners listen to Planners. I think everyone was prepared for this meeting to be much more intense with lots of opposition.
How these work is that there is a clock and certain minutes allowed. SkyPlex gets so many so they split it to presenting and closing arguments. Speakers then get 2 minutes but may reassign 1 minute to someone if there is a good speaker with longer speech. Universal had two lawyers sign up. All these speakers go and bells go off if you are going over. At end SkyPlex does closing. At that point Commissioner can discuss, argue etc and I've sat through lengthy but they were ready to go. The first one said she was so thrilled to see such a community effort even among competitors to come to the same place.
Some of the speakers -
- First up Rosen Hotels representative for owner. Anticipation as they are a huge player and partner with Universal for stuff. They said they support both Universal and SkyPlex as businesses so they felt best for them to back the neighborhood closest to the project, Tangelo, and whatever they wanted to do. Of course they knew already what that neighborhood was going to say so they basically gave their opinion through the back door. Great business move.
- Up next was Tangelo. FOR for SkyPlex (so add Rosen to that). They hate the condition of the area, want renovation and ability to walk to jobs. This is a win win for their community.
- Young man about 12 spoke well and of good business and he was FOR.
- Laura, 62 and 32 year resident. Rumble in room was to expect her to be against. Nope she is a roller coaster junkie and travels all over to ride. She brought up all the roller coaster clubs and they will travel from around the world to go on tallest. Said international groups 300-400 at a time travel and they will hit all the parks to ride all the coasters.
- Transplant that has mostly lived here and watched it grow .. not voting yes to this tells all developers we are closed for business.
- Homeowner talked of all the folks losing their homes due to soaring property taxes. This kind of business and what it will bring will help keep taxes in check as they bring in more.
- Several hotel and restaurant owners in the area.
- Many business owners on International with great stories talked about how bad that stretch is, how many businesses have closed and this would be the anchor to make all of International a destination.
- Teen was really passionate and then it went off tangent that it would bring crime, drugs, traffic that would be so bad the CSI couldn't get through to the bodies from the rides and crime. Thinking he watches way too much tv....as I visualized bodies flying off the coaster.
- Lawyer, 60, born and raised FOR. Great speech.
- Brett who got his GED and worked hard and now has 3 hotels.
- Bishop, great speaker, a win for the folks in the community.
- Transplant from Russia and all her family already planning to come for the SkyPlex.
- Wallack's son spoke, maybe 12, he has a big future. Spoke that he has a Universal AP, his whole family does. This will not hurt Universal, just bring more folks to Orlando so it will help everyone.
- Woman talked of her work with those needing a new start, the drugs and crime in that area, and that SkyPlex has met with her and committed to hiring folks that have come out of jail and need a second chance at life.
- Owner of Orlando Eye, great speech about area. He got to speak longer because some folks gave him their minutes. Well played.
- Jaclyn, an artist with her husband who Mangos has hired to do work. The companies commitment to hire the small guy and small businesses.
- Many called Universal a bully.
- Father and Son spoke who own land in the area and sold some to SkyPlex, who live behind Universal and talk about all the debris they have to clean from Universal fireworks - point being that Universal is not a quiet, non-impacting neighbor.
- Folks of many colors and ethnic groups all coming together to support this project with like reasons: that area of International is derelict and getting worse, the tax money it will bring to the digest, the jobs that it will bring with easy access, boost to tourism and conventions .....
Developers, Architects, Bishop, Lawyers, Retired, Small business owners, community leaders, native Floridians, transplants, bloggers, hotel owners, realtor ........ was really interesting to see them all coming together.
The buzzing in the room started about Universal was getting this land and now we know two commissioners had already been approached by Universal that this hurts their plan. Their two lawyers attempted some opposition but all of it had already been presented and disproved, visual, noise, lights (they actually have way more lighting that this will ever have). Lots of scrambling and googling going on. SkyPlex lawyers had obviously already done their digging and it was part of the final statement that they allow. They did a bullet point on every issue Universal had and said they were wrong. At one point the music "Money money money" started playing, lawyer and Wallack danced and the graphic turned to picture of pile of money. Point this is about competition.
Very entertaining compared to most zoning and some great stories. Full video will eventually post in OC archives.
HopperFan
"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
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- It is technically on the same block as Wet & Wild etc which Universal owns and should have no need for after Volcano Bay.
- If they close it what will they do with all the property that really makes sense.
- Universal's property is all in the City except for the lake by Wet & Wild.
- Universal is suing Orange County over storm water coming in lake from neighboring properties.
- If Universal is going to build on the old Lockheed property why would SkyPlex be a problem?
- It could be they were trying to take over this whole block for "something" and it would place it in close proximity to the rest.....
- So maybe the expansion Universal alluded to was the International area, and this sudden purchase of other land is Plan B....
If nothing else it's going to interesting to follow all this the next couple years.
Ursula's Apprentice
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Very interesting read, and I'm sure that's way more info then I'd get out of reading an article about it. Thanks for posting all your notes!
It was already announced that wet & wild will close to make way for future projects. From what I have heard that site will be hotels and another entertainment district.
I do think you may be right about Universal having more plans than we know.
Side note...
An insider when Volcano Bay was announced said that Universal was planning more than just the hybrid theme/water park that Volcano Bay will be. Universal is planning a DisneySea level theme park right in Orlando. Universal is going full steam ahead with this project as it seems. Even if universal doesn't do full scale DisneySea level theming but at least gets to HP level theming Disney may want to react. This third park coud be a game changer depending on how it turns out.
I'm just worried that they're about to hit their peak draw power. How many more people can they draw in? How many people can afford or want to go on Resort destination vacations? When does Orlando hit the same peak it hit in the late 1990s and mid 2000s?
Orlando has been undergoing one of the most aggressive expansion campaigns in its history. Not only is Universal building, but everyone's building at the same time. Imagine if this park 3 comes out of the gate with even 10 million new guests and the other two lose millions at the same time. We have a repeat of the DAK situation. A chain of events that led to the toxic environment of cheap investments that aren't meaningful at Disney. Imagine Universal Florida having its own stall mid-air. Disney is being cautious, perhaps to their detriment, in Disneyland. I'm thinking that they're more prudent. We'll have to see though.
Even the much celebrated Tokyo Disney Sea lowered attendance growth at its companion and it took years before margins and growth returned to pre Tokyo Disney Sea levels. WDW is still feeling the effects of DAK. WDS sent Euro Disney into hard times. Of course through time each of those investments ended up adding value. Yet it took growing pains, and growing pains lead to dissatisfaction with the idea of new investments.
What could the landscape look like by the early 2020s? A Magic Kingdom fully upgraded with a new nighttime spectacular, parade, a New Frontierland, and maybe more. A completely refocused DHS that should have opened up Toy Story Land, Star Wars, a 3rd Phase, maybe a 4th in development, and new Great Movie Ride inbound. A DAK that will have vibrance and new life, with Avatar, a new Nighttime Spectacular, Harambe Marketplace, Safari Upgrades, and newly refurbished park environments. And Epcot that will probably be even more painful then today, though hopefully upgrades considered. That doesn't even consider how Universal intends to be upgrading and replacing their Marvel, Lost Continent, Toon Lagoon, and Kid Zone areas. Nor does that even begin to take into account the effects of all the other theme park operators investing.
This is just without precedent. I want to believe they'll pull this off smoothly, but there are glaring risks. This is make or break.
Nintendo had been rumored to go elsewhere, but yes it could theoretically come to Park 3. Jurassic World would be interesting, but would likely necessitate the closure of the existing attraction based off that IP. Lord of the Rings would be a true dark horse. I wonder if they can swing that. I still can't help but feel they're scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
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