Online Colleges - Thoughts

[supercarrie]

I am currently in the last year of my undergraduate degree at UCLA. Concurrently, I am also taking an online class in HR through UCLA Extension, which is the continuing education section of UCLA. I see no difference in the difficulty level between the traditional classes and the online class. In fact, I feel like I am learning a great deal more in the HR class than in my other classes.

I think you will see a greater respect for online degree and certificate programs in the next few years, especially those offered by highly respected traditional institutions, as more people begin to take advantage of them. With my experience, if I were to hire someone with a degree or certificate from a respected online school, I would view it no differently than a traditional institution. I would hope those with responsibility for hiring would actually pay attention to evolving educational trends as opposed to simply writing something off they are not familiar with.

 

[drakethib]

Penn State University



University of Phoenix got in a lot of trouble with accredation a few years ago - teachers were passing out As to students who didn't go to class, who didn't turn in work. It was a degree mill. Since then they have become a lot more strict in their work and attendance requirements. I found through my experience there (I took 5 classes there) that teachers still handed out As like candy.

.

I wish I would have had some of these teachers.

Do you think it is safe to say that there are traditional brick and mortar teachers who pass out grades without much thought?

I had one teacher at a traditional college whose final exam was God as my witness multi choice answers of A,B,C,D,E,F,A,B,C,D,E,etc.

 

[drakethib]

I teach 8th grade, and my worry with colleges that are TOTALLY online is that some of these helicopter parents who still dress their children every morning in the 8th grade because they "need all the sleep time they can get" will end up doing the degree in the child's name. How do you prove that that is not happening?

The same way they can write their term papers, essay, thesis, etc for brick and mortars.

If someone wants to cheat, they are going to no matter where they are.

These type of shenanigans go on at traditional schools as well.

I also know of a guy (his folks were loaded) that paid people to take hard classes for him. He ended up graduating with honors.

 

[ead79]

When I graduated from college back in 2002 (brick and mortar college--UGA), degrees from the University of Phoenix were not looked upon favorably in the workplace. The consensus seemed to be that degrees were more easily obtained from an online college than from a traditional one. I think that what really remains to be seen in terms of employment opportunities is how each online college's graduates perform in the workplace vs. their traditional college counterparts. Only time will tell which become more competitive. Of course, just as traditional colleges vary widely in terms of how difficult it is to get in or to get your degree, online colleges differ as well. It would also depend on what the online colleges are being compared against. For instance, a University of Phoenix degree would certainly not be as well respected as a degree from Princeton or Duke, but to be fair, my degree from the University of Georgia is not nearly as well respected as an Ivy League degree either. Colleges, whether online or traditional, must earn their individual reputations via the success of their graduates in the workplace and in post-graduate program acceptance.

 

[MushyMushy]

The same way they can write their term papers, essay, thesis, etc for brick and mortars.

If someone wants to cheat, they are going to no matter where they are.

These type of shenanigans go on at traditional schools as well.

I also know of a guy (his folks were loaded) that paid people to take hard classes for him. He ended up graduating with honors.

Exactly! Also, they'd have to be pretty darn dedicated to do all that for their child. I saw the work my DH had to do, and it was something that took hours and hours every week to do all the required reading, message board postings, and essays.

 

[horseshowmom]

I have a M.S. in Geosciences degree from a major state university. It was done online (along with DVD instruction and a message board type environment). We did have two field courses (not online - sort of like oral comps) at the end where we demonstrated competencies in the various fields of study. I have had several individuals (who were interested in the program) question me about it, and I have been very honest about how strenous the work was (very).

I am very much in favor of online courses. My dd is in college now and took two last summer, one last semester, and is taking one now. She commutes, and it makes it easier to schedule her classes.

That said, I, personally, would NOT complete an online program through any means other than a brick and mortar college. There are so many traditional colleges/universities offering these programs that I can't see any reason to take a chance with something else. Furthermore, the degree you receive from the B&M schools are the same as any other degree they give (it doesn't have a notation saying it was done online). JMHO

 

[MassJester]

I was asked to explain what important differences exist between the UoP, and traditional schools.

I suppose the principal difference is the faculty. UoP has over 7,000 faculty members, 95% of whom are part time. Their own advertising points out that they draw on practitioners much more heavilly than people who have built a career in academia. Someone is going to have to explain to me how you adequately screen 7,000 faculty members, particularly when most come from the workplace with no proven track record of teaching.

If I were going to hire a business professional, I would not look to an academic. I would look to someone who has made an accomplished career in business. Unfortunately, the ability to execute a job frequently does not qualify you to teach it.

Additionally, another poster suggested that hiring managers not be judgmental about learning processes they may not fully understand. Perhaps. One of my major clients, Intel, has publicly ended its reimbursement for UoP: "We would be wasting their time and wasting our money if we didn't make sure that the education that they are getting can be used at Intel," said an Intel executive. This sort of activity gives me pause as someone who must decide whether or not to lend weight to the accomplishment.

Finally, it's areal chore to figure out which of their degree programs are accredited and which ones aren't. Frankly it's just not worth the trouble.

I don't have any preconcieved notions about the online courses I have seen from other schools (although I have not seen many). If U Penn offers an accredited degree program that is done online, I'm gonna take their word for it that it's a quailty program. They have more to lose than they have to gain. If Bridgewater State College says they have an online MBA program, I'm gonna take the degree with a grain (or several) of salt.

It's not about being fair, nor is it a statement on how hard the online grads worked to get their degree -- I have a fiduciary responsibility to make decisions that are as sound as possible.

 

[drakethib]

I was asked to explain what important differences exist between the UoP, and traditional schools.

I suppose the principal difference is the faculty. UoP has over 7,000 faculty members, 95% of whom are part time. Their own advertising points out that they draw on practitioners much more heavilly than people who have built a career in academia. Someone is going to have to explain to me how you adequately screen 7,000 faculty members, particularly when most come from the workplace with no proven track record of teaching.

If I were going to hire a business professional, I would not look to an academic. I would look to someone who has made an accomplished career in business. Unfortunately, the ability to execute a job frequently does not qualify you to teach it.

Additionally, another poster suggested that hiring managers not be judgmental about learning processes they may not fully understand. Perhaps. One of my major clients, Intel, has publicly ended its reimbursement for UoP: "We would be wasting their time and wasting our money if we didn't make sure that the education that they are getting can be used at Intel," said an Intel executive. This sort of activity gives me pause as someone who must decide whether or not to lend weight to the accomplishment.

Finally, it's areal chore to figure out which of their degree programs are accredited and which ones aren't. Frankly it's just not worth the trouble.

I don't have any preconcieved notions about the online courses I have seen from other schools (although I have not seen many). If U Penn offers an accredited degree program that is done online, I'm gonna take their word for it that it's a quailty program. They have more to lose than they have to gain. If Bridgewater State College says they have an online MBA program, I'm gonna take the degree with a grain (or several) of salt.

It's not about being fair, nor is it a statement on how hard the online grads worked to get their degree -- I have a fiduciary responsibility to make decisions that are as sound as possible.

I just read the same article. What is funny that the executive for Intel who made the decision regarding reimbursement for UOP and the man who made the quote "We would be wasting their time and wasting our money if we didn't make sure that the education that they are getting can be used at Intel," no longer works for Intel. See below for the article


I do understand your point about having the choice to go to other online classes since more traditional colleges are offering classes.

I will say that the local university here where I live rely highly on teachers who work in the industry and do not have much experience in teaching. Screen all fo the teachers is proably tough I can imagine, but I really would rather learn from someone who works in an industry that I am studying then someone who just knows "what the book says".

There is a website called uopsucks.com so their agenda is clear. But it looks like they do have some good points about UOP.


Losing Intel a Blow to School

Dawn Gilbertson
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 5, 2006 12:00 AM


With about $2 billion in annual revenue and 300,000 students worldwide, University of Phoenix parent Apollo Group can easily weather the loss of Intel Corp.'s business.

But the prestigious chipmaker's decision to exclude the for-profit school, among others, from the list of approved schools in its tuition reimbursement program clearly stings, as Intel was a longtime customer.

And it will hurt worse if other high-profile employers follow Intel's lead of tying approval to a school's accreditation, or if prospective students outside the company view it as a mark against the university's programs - even though Intel says it's not a statement against for-profit schools. advertisement

Intel's move, which became effective Nov. 1, comes as the nation's largest private university is struggling with dramatically slower enrollment growth from demographic and economic changes and its own missteps. Apollo's stock is way off its highs and several executives have left.

CEO Brian Mueller was unavailable for an interview Monday. Spokeswoman Ayla Dickey issued a statement saying the loss of new Intel business won't have a "material financial impact" on Apollo, meaning it isn't significant enough to warrant disclosure by a public company.

The company said it just learned of Intel's new policy - it was disclosed to employees in a memo late last week - and hopes it will reconsider given the long-standing relationship between the two.

Intel executive Alan Fisher, manager of global extended education programs, said he had several discussions with a top Apollo executive about the changes when they were under consideration. The executive recently left the company.

Intel is raising the standards in its tuition reimbursement program in a bid to create what Fisher calls a world-class program. Intel noticed higher-than-normal attrition among employees who had taken classes on the company's dime and set out to find out why.

A big finding: Some workers left or were planning to leave because their new degree didn't help them advance at Intel, Fisher said.

Competition is stiff for promotions and new jobs at Intel, with a top-notch education often a deciding point for those who score interviews, Fisher said. Plus, the company only recruits recent college graduates from first-rate, traditional universities. The new standards are designed to level the playing field, he said.

"We would be wasting their time and wasting our money if we didn't make sure that the education that they are getting can be used at Intel," he said.

There are currently about 600 Intel employees enrolled. They will be able to finish their degrees and be reimbursed for the cost.

The policy dictates that the company will only pay for students who enroll in degree programs accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB) or ABET, an accrediting body for engineering and technology programs.

University of Phoenix has long bragged that it had the same general regional accreditation as Arizona State University, Harvard, Yale and others.

That's true, but what it didn't say was that those schools also have additional accreditation for specialized programs like business and engineering. That's where AACSB and ABET come in. Schools must go through a rigorous process to earn accreditation. At AACSB, it takes three to seven years to gain accreditation, President John Fernandes said. Once accredited, they are re-examined every five years.

What sets the 90-year-old group apart, he said, is its intense focus on faculty credentials and continuity, admissions standards and graduation rates, research, libraries, and student resources, among a host of other factors.

Just 530 of 9,000 business schools worldwide have the accreditation. None is for-profit.

Fernandes said University of Phoenix probably wouldn't make the cut unless it changed the makeup of its faculty, which he called nomadic. The school prides itself on its lineup of teachers with work experience, but most are part time. At AACSB schools, the majority of the faculty is full time and have a long relationship with the school, he said.

Fernandes said he is aware of companies who direct employees to AACSB schools as a practice but has not seen any employer come out with a requirement like Intel.

"It sounds to me like Intel wants to make sure that the money they're spending for executive education has some quality assurance behind it," he said.

Faith Ivery thinks Intel has gone too far at the expense of many of its employees, especially those who don't want to rapidly climb the corporate ladder.

"Not everyone wants to be their top engineer," said the founder and president of Scottsdale-based Educational Advisory Services, which helps companies craft and manage tuition reimbursement programs.

Ivery said the new policy severely limits employees' choices, something working adults need to complete a degree or get an advanced degree.

For-profit schools like University of Phoenix build their models around choice and flexibility, with online degrees, part-time classes and more. Intel is clearly favoring traditional schools, she said.

"It's absolutely ludicrous what they're doing," she said of Intel's move.

Fisher acknowledges Intel set the standards "extremely high" with its new policy. He does not rule out changes as it studies the impact and said he likely will re-examine the program in a year.

 

[MassJester]

yep, that article just about wraps it up.

 

[arminnie]

Just a follow up, here is a list of a few traditional colleges (well known) that now offer online degree programs:

Notre Dame
Tulane University
Vanderbelt
Villanova
Loyola
Duke
Indiana State University

There are countless more

Tulane offers an online Master's Certificate in Business Management or Marketing. That's a certificate not a degree. I'm not saying it doesn't have any value, but it is not the same as getting an MBA.

And getting an MBA from Tulane comes no where near getting one from Stanford or Harvard. It's all relative.

I'm in favor of getting as much education as you can. I don't think it should be an all or nothing thing. Online education may not be as rigorous as some sticks and bricks classes, but it is still better than not doing anything.
And I found this interesting:

Online college degree brings down Tulane business instructor
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Published on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 09:45 PM [/FONT]
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Tulane University has fired a business instructor after it found out he had a doctoral degree from the same unaccredited online college that caused the downfall of a University of Louisiana at Lafayette basketball coach.

 

[drakethib]

Tulane offers an online Master's Certificate in Business Management or Marketing. That's a certificate not a degree. I'm not saying it doesn't have any value, but it is not the same as getting an MBA.

And getting an MBA from Tulane comes no where near getting one from Stanford or Harvard. It's all relative.

I'm in favor of getting as much education as you can. I don't think it should be an all or nothing thing. Online education may not be as rigorous as some sticks and bricks classes, but it is still better than not doing anything.
And I found this interesting:

Key examples of how things can be decivieng.

Thanks

 

[Nancy]

I do go to school online, I graduate in March with a degree in Business Management, then I move on to a different school (still on-line) for my Bachelors in Human Resource Management. I get scholarship money from work so obviously my place of business thinks on-line is ok.

With my work schedule I could never sit in a physical classroom. I work full time, and my schedule could be anywhere from 8 am until 12 midnight depending on what my training classes are that week.
So I work 40 hours a week, go to my on-line classes (2 per semester, 7 days a week) and take care of my family too...it's a lot but I feel it's worth it.

 

[SamRoc]

I was just going to ask about online colleges but found this thread. I am hearing about more and more people taking online courses. My dd's friend (who is a freshman in college in PA) just told us she is taking 3 online courses this summer through her college. She is also talking about finishing with an online school so she can still train at the same time (she is a professional ice skater) Her Mom is worried about her getting a diploma from an online college. I have heard alot of different opinions and wouldn't be sure what to do in this position.

 

[#1hockeymom]

I received my BS in education from a state brick and mortar college. I'm currently taking my master's classes at Kaplan University. My advice to prospective scholars would be to make sure you like to write! I write and read every day. The discussions you have to post on, the outside research, the papers... I'm working my butt off!

I was worried I would miss the camaraderie of a regular classroom, but that isn't the case. There is a lot of peer to peer/colleague to colleague interaction both in real time seminars and daily discussion/graded questions. My professors, so far, have been wonderful.

Another plus is being able to talk to educators all over the country rather than just my area. We have shared so many ideas and lessons with each other. Maybe I just got lucky, but so far I love the experience I've had working towards my MaTL.

Debbie

 

[lillygator]

Could you expand on what you think those are? I'm curious.

I guess you could also put a different spin on it and say that someone who managed to earn a degree while working two jobs or raising a houseful of kids as a single parent (or whatever their circumstances are) was disciplined enough to do the work and see it through, regardless of whether it wasn't done in a traditional setting. I think other factors need to be considered, too, like what field you're in, and whether you're already in a job but need a degree to advance, etc.


I didn't realize there was much difference between "online classes" and "web based classes". Can you explain more? What was terrible about them? Again, I'm curious.

It just seems to me online is the way of the future, but maybe I'm wrong.

web based usually has some meetings where online you never need to show up. My thing with UOP is - all my coworkers who have attended - no exams!! (business program) Everything is group based! I don't hold their degrees very highly especially seeing how it did nothing for them work wise...

My mom is going to Univ of Indiana (or maybe ISU?) online...it too is pretty easy, I have had to help her a lot with her homework...but amazingly her GPA is pretty high.

 

[#1hockeymom]

All online degree programs have different formats and can't be lumped together as one. If anyone is considering taking one make sure you do your research and understand what formats they are using and decide what you are comfortable in taking.

 

[katerkat]

We have been looking into this, as my husband will probably never be able to do a masters without it being online. (Deploying every few months puts a damper on the classroom participation!) From what I've researched, I think he'll be better off getting an online degree from an existing college (Penn State, etc) than an online-only college. It seems those degrees are more respected.

 

[horseshowmom]

DH and I got our M.S. in Geosciences from a brick and mortar state university. It was just as hard (or harder) than our undergraduate degrees. DD has taken several of her elective courses online (two from her own university and two from a community college). She has been very satisfied. Our state department of education offers a virtual school with online courses to high school students in our state. They are also of very high quality.

I am very much in favor of online courses, but I would not personally participate in a program that wasn't associated with a brick and mortar university (recognized by the appropriate regional accreditation authority, such as SACS, etc.). Since there are plenty of those to choose from, I can't see taking a chance on having a problem with one of the others. JMHO