One injury after another...

[budpaulsaint]

For some reason I'm having an issue with my left knee. I took a week off from running after some overtraining a couple of weeks ago. I did a little 2.5 mile training run on Thursday just to get back into the swing of things and for some reason I'm having knee pain. This is unlike any other pain I've dealt with over the months - this feels like someone whacked right above my kneecap with a hammer. Not hard, mind you, just enough to cause pain when I walk.
I've dealt with pulled muscles, a nasty plantar faciatis issue which I think is finally worked out, and a sore hip in addition to some other knee pains, but this one is different. Yet I didn't do anything that I can recall that would have caused this new pain. I was really ready to start training again and was scheduled to run 10 miles on Saturday morning in preparation for the Akron Half-Marathon coming up in two weeks but another injury seems like it could sideline me. This was to be my last long run before a six-mile taper the following week. Now I don't know what I'm going to do. Part of me is thinking that I ought to just go out running tomorrow since it's not a sore muscle and just see how I do, but then the rational side is telling me that I could do even more damage so I should just take it easy. Well, I'm tired of taking it easy! Grumble grumble grumble...

 

[bounceliketigger]

Ever do any research into barefoot or minimalist shoes? Not sure what you're using now, but I've had some success in minimizing my use of running shoes, the result being fewer injuries.

 

[budpaulsaint]

Ever do any research into barefoot or minimalist shoes? Not sure what you're using now, but I've had some success in minimizing my use of running shoes, the result being fewer injuries.

I started with some Asics and they were fine; I moved on to Saucony and I haven't been displeased with those either.

Per your advice, I've started doing a little research into minimalist shoes. Probably not something I should consider given that it would take a lot of time to adjust to a new running motion, but long term it's certainly something to consider.

 

[bounceliketigger]

There is absolutely a learning curve when you switch, and it's much more physically demanding so you really have to ease into it. Probably not conducive to an upcoming race.

That said, your shoes & your stride may be contributing to your perpetual injuries without you even realizing it, particularly if you're a heel-striker. Of course it's all in the philosophy and there's a point of view supporting both camps. But, if you're at all interested, check out some sources on "Chi Running" while you're looking into barefoot & minimalist theories.

Good luck!

 

[cewait]

If you read this before heading out the door on Saturday ----- DO NOT go out for the run. There is an absolute rule of not running through a joint injury. Missing the 10 mile run this weekend is not a deal breaker for the half in two weeks. Snapping a tendon is.

Obviously there is no way this can be diagnosed through the net so suggest resting and icing the area. Get on an over the counter NSAID for a couple days. If the knee is still as painful as you describe on Monday get to a doc.

As far as making it into the race, run 8-10 miles the following weekend and just call it good. One really does not need a taper for a half; it’s helpful but not necessary.

With regard to minimalist running, before drinking the koolaid let me ask what shoes you are currently running in. If you are in a motion control shoe minimalist running can be a negative, not a positive. Research demonstrates that minimalist running works well for a large percentage of runners; but not all. If you are overweight and your feet are splaying outward (think penguin) or you are otherwise a severe over pronator, the loss of support can lead to injury.

I would whole heartedly support a chi running stride for all. The philosophy packages up what all running coaches point out to maybe a third of their runners - your stride is too long. Chi running simply focuses you on a mid-foot strike.

Finally, I would offer that a great strength routine is a runner’s best friend. The routine should include a shoulder/arm day, a push/pull day and a leg day. Yes legs during race training. Each of the days incorporate a core routine or two. I would avoid the gym machines and work with free weights and in unstable stances. Think working from the top of a Bosu Ball or wobble board. This forces you to recruit the smaller stabilizer muscles and also forces you to work with less weight.

Take time to heal. Running undertrained in a race is much better than not running due to injury

 

[budpaulsaint]

Well, I actually didn't read the post prior to my Saturday morning run. And yes, the darn knee hurt a lot, but it made me decide to actually go see my doctor about it, which I likely wouldn't have done otherwise. Because of meetings I wasn't able to make an appointment until Thursday. I am lucky to have a doctor who is also a runner (he's running Boston next year) so he understands that sometimes runners do dumb things like run when they shouldn't. He diagnosed me with tendinitis and prescribed me some anti-inflammatory medication which seems to be working. I'm also doing the RICE thing as much as my work and daily activities allow.

He's aware of my half next Saturday and told me to chill out this weekend, then see how the knee feels come Tuesday. If it feels alright I should try a mile or two. Basically, I should play it by ear.

It would be a real milestone for me if I can complete this coming run but I need to think long term so if I'm not sabotaging myself for the real goal of Disney in January.

 

[cewait]

Well, I actually didn't read the post prior to my Saturday morning run. And yes, the darn knee hurt a lot, but it made me decide to actually go see my doctor about it, which I likely wouldn't have done otherwise. Because of meetings I wasn't able to make an appointment until Thursday. I am lucky to have a doctor who is also a runner (he's running Boston next year) so he understands that sometimes runners do dumb things like run when they shouldn't. He diagnosed me with tendinitis and prescribed me some anti-inflammatory medication which seems to be working. I'm also doing the RICE thing as much as my work and daily activities allow.

He's aware of my half next Saturday and told me to chill out this weekend, then see how the knee feels come Tuesday. If it feels alright I should try a mile or two. Basically, I should play it by ear.

It would be a real milestone for me if I can complete this coming run but I need to think long term so if I'm not sabotaging myself for the real goal of Disney in January.

I am NOT a big fan of sleeves or other bracing like a J Brace but you may see what his thoughts are on a neoprene sleeve, brace or cho-pat just to get through the race. I think using them on a temporary, short term bases is not all that bad, especially to get through a target race. I know several folks swear by them but all too many feel the need to wear them every run for years.... That is not a great idea.

Hang in there. I agree that a B race should not jeopardize an A race

 

[bunnyfoo]

Sounds like me I always have one strain or another. They're usually a result of me overtraining or not paying enough attention to what I'm stepping on as I run. I'm also having a little bit of a problem with my left knee. I'm taking things easier but I know that can be hard to do. I picked up a patella brace specifically for my 1/2 next Sunday but I'm hoping I can go without.

You might want to see if your physio, chiro, doctor or RMT can do some ART on your knee. I've found that's really helped me in the past (aside from just general rest).

Good luck with your 1/2 and see you in January

 

[bounceliketigger]

What's a J-Brace? Cause boy do I think I need one! Or something....I've historically had issues w/ my left knee when I go down hills or stairs, but not with running until the Princess, when it buckled at the 1/2 way point. I was able to get it working again, but it took a lot of walk, run, stretch & added an unGodly amount of time to my finish.

I was off for 3 months for a shin injury & started running again in July. Took it slow till I got into the W&D off the WL. I have had zero problems with the knee until today, when I set out to do 12 miles. Around 7 or 8 I could feel the ITB start to hurt from my hip down, (which it never did before) & pretty soon, WHAMMO- there goes the knee again. So I quit just over 11 miles after much walk-run.

Now I'm super nervous about the W&D. HEEELLLP!!

 

[cewait]

What's a J-Brace? Cause boy do I think I need one! Or something....I've historically had issues w/ my left knee when I go down hills or stairs, but not with running until the Princess, when it buckled at the 1/2 way point. I was able to get it working again, but it took a lot of walk, run, stretch & added an unGodly amount of time to my finish.

I was off for 3 months for a shin injury & started running again in July. Took it slow till I got into the W&D off the WL. I have had zero problems with the knee until today, when I set out to do 12 miles. Around 7 or 8 I could feel the ITB start to hurt from my hip down, (which it never did before) & pretty soon, WHAMMO- there goes the knee again. So I quit just over 11 miles after much walk-run.

Now I'm super nervous about the W&D. HEEELLLP!!

I would not head off to the drug store and buy an off the shelf one of these, rather look to a doctor to have them prescribe one. The level of quality is night and day.

A j-brace has a j-shaped pad that rests laterally to and under the knee cap. Once put in place the brace has two straps that pull the pad inward in an effort to hold the patella on track.

http://www.donjoybraces.com/productcart/pc/DonJoy-Lateral-J-Knee-Brace-40p1215.htm#details

Another solution is to try kinesio taping the knee. I am not sure of who will be at the expo but KT Tape has been at all large events I have been to since the China Olympics. KT has promise in light injuries. A light case of runner’s knee or tight IT and may be helped with something like this. It is simple to tape up but if KTTAPE is at the expo, have them tape your knee at the expo. Showing once is better than trying to learn on your own.
http://www.kttape.com/instructions/

 

[budpaulsaint]

Wow, what a nice website. I'll check out the expo on Friday before the half in Akron to see if there are any demos.

I'm also glad you noted the difference between a store-bought brace and a prescribed one. I've worn the store-bought type on occasion and it's one of those things where I'm not sure if it did anything positive or negative.

Anyway, per the doc's instructions, I've really taken it easy and spent most of the day sitting with my knee elevated and occasionally iced while watching football and monitoring my fantasy football team. The knee feels good. There's almost no pain, just the occasional very mild discomfort. It's like night-and-day from even a few days ago. I don't plan to run until Tuesday and I'm sticking to that. I'm honestly enjoying walking around without pain and I'm in no hurry to irritate it.

 

[mytripsandraces]

I would whole heartedly support a chi running stride for all. The philosophy packages up what all running coaches point out to maybe a third of their runners - your stride is too long. Chi running simply focuses you on a mid-foot strike.

I was considering chi running, but I already have trouble with my calves. They tend to be sore a lot. Would chi running help or hurt calf pain.

Finally, I would offer that a great strength routine is a runner’s best friend. The routine should include a shoulder/arm day, a push/pull day and a leg day. Yes legs during race training. Each of the days incorporate a core routine or two. I would avoid the gym machines and work with free weights and in unstable stances. Think working from the top of a Bosu Ball or wobble board. This forces you to recruit the smaller stabilizer muscles and also forces you to work with less weight.

What is a push/pull day?

 

[cewait]

I was considering chi running, but I already have trouble with my calves. They tend to be sore a lot. Would chi running help or hurt calf pain.



What is a push/pull day?

My bad.. Chest (push) and Back (pull)


With regard to chi running.... in real simple terms it is a shortening of the stride so that you are landing mid to fore foot. You are attempting to bound off the ground with the foot already pulling back. You may feel a little new ache from changing styles of running, but i would think not for long.

For your sore calves, have you tried rolling them out on a foam roller (or other device that will focus pressure in a small area)? I find taht is one of the few ways I can keep calves loose.

 

[mytripsandraces]

My bad.. Chest (push) and Back (pull)


With regard to chi running.... in real simple terms it is a shortening of the stride so that you are landing mid to fore foot. You are attempting to bound off the ground with the foot already pulling back. You may feel a little new ache from changing styles of running, but i would think not for long.

For your sore calves, have you tried rolling them out on a foam roller (or other device that will focus pressure in a small area)? I find taht is one of the few ways I can keep calves loose.

Thanks - that makes sense!

I'm a heel striker, I think, so it would take a major adjustment to change to mid to forefoot landing. I guess I could give it a shot, though.

I do have a foam roller, but have been using the Stick. I'll try the foam roller for a while, too. Thanks!

 

[cewait]

Thanks - that makes sense!

I'm a heel striker, I think, so it would take a major adjustment to change to mid to forefoot landing. I guess I could give it a shot, though.

I do have a foam roller, but have been using the Stick. I'll try the foam roller for a while, too. Thanks!

It is really not a hard transition. I would only think shorter stride if you are running W&D in a couple weeks. The best way I know to self teach a form of chi running is running long and relentless hill workouts on the treadmill. OK no flaming from the crowd, there are other ways but many if not most runners are just not body aware enough to learn through other means.

By running on a 6-10% grade you are
1) forced to run on your forefeet, it is near impossible to heal stike on these slopes.
2) working the ham/glute complex, a necessity to pull through on the stride - as opposed to falling from stride to stride as a heal striker.
3) in a controlled enough environment that you can occationally look down at youfeet in the stride to see if you are landing foot nuetral, inward or outward. You want to work towards nuetral.

Hope this helps. In the mean time if you have access to the book it is a great read.

 

[mytripsandraces]

It is really not a hard transition. I would only think shorter stride if you are running W&D in a couple weeks. The best way I know to self teach a form of chi running is running long and relentless hill workouts on the treadmill. OK no flaming from the crowd, there are other ways but many if not most runners are just not body aware enough to learn through other means.

By running on a 6-10% grade you are
1) forced to run on your forefeet, it is near impossible to heal stike on these slopes.
2) working the ham/glute complex, a necessity to pull through on the stride - as opposed to falling from stride to stride as a heal striker.
3) in a controlled enough environment that you can occationally look down at youfeet in the stride to see if you are landing foot nuetral, inward or outward. You want to work towards nuetral.

Hope this helps. In the mean time if you have access to the book it is a great read.

I think I'll wait until I've finished W&D before I make any changes. That half is my A race, now, because it's the last race of my Disney year and I will have run every single Disney race (except the kids' races, unless you count my running the Disneyland 200-yard dash with my niece).

 

[crewmatt]

Focus on making the running light on your feet. Shorten the stride, I wouldnt worry so much (as you dont have a lot of time left) about where you land on your foot. Just make sure you aren't reaching your foot forward of your center of mass. You want to take lots of short quick strides, with the foot landing underneath or like half an inch ahead of you. You want to make sure you're landing with a slightly bent knee. Also make sure your feet are hitting the ground softly, make a conscious effort to relax your leg muscles as you lift your foot from the ground behind you swing them through and forward so you're not pounding them down. If you run with music I'd recommend you go for a run or two without it so you can hear your footfalls.

 

[mytripsandraces]

Focus on making the running light on your feet. Shorten the stride, I wouldnt worry so much (as you dont have a lot of time left) about where you land on your foot. Just make sure you aren't reaching your foot forward of your center of mass. You want to take lots of short quick strides, with the foot landing underneath or like half an inch ahead of you. You want to make sure you're landing with a slightly bent knee. Also make sure your feet are hitting the ground softly, make a conscious effort to relax your leg muscles as you lift your foot from the ground behind you swing them through and forward so you're not pounding them down. If you run with music I'd recommend you go for a run or two without it so you can hear your footfalls.

Thank you for the advice! I'll try it. I only use headphones on the treadmill or on a training run. When I run in races, I don't use technological devices, except my watch to track my split times. My next training run will be tomorrow, so I'll work on the soft footfall and the follow-through.

 

[bounceliketigger]

I just went to a new chiro who's also a PT. She was fantastic & did a number on my ITB treatmeant wise. She used a frozen water bottle instead of a foam roller --WOW!