On-demand public shared-ride transportation

[bcla]

I was just looking up info on how to get around Orange County, California and came across a service I’d never heard of before, called EVE, or “Everyone Ventures Everywhere”, which is a service of Anaheim Regional Transportation that seems to specialize in airport rides to/from Orange Country Airport to stops that ART’s regular bus service serves.

ART itself has a bus service that started with fixed routes, mostly around Disneyland and the various hotels nearby. They have some peak demand routes to a couple of train stations, but now a lot of their service consists of on-demand rides requested through their app. It’s not quite door to door. It’s only to designated bus stops, but the on-demand routes can be random between nearly any of their stops. Their request system does try and schedule connected rides, but that’s not always possible. I’ve ridden it where I was either alone or with my kid as the only passengers going 5-8 miles. The service might be closer to how paratransit operates, although not door to door unless a stop happens to be there.

It is subsidized by local businesses - especially Disneyland. However, they’re legally considered public transportation (their buses have exempt plates) and they’ve gotten government subsidies. I’ve read about Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA) objecting to their applications for public transportation funding on the premise that it means less for OCTA.

OCTA has it’s own on-demand service called OCFlex, but it’s only for a limited area around Aliso Viejo, Laguna Niguel, and Mission Viejo.

https://www.octa.net/getting-around/bus/oc-flex/what-is-oc-flex

Some call it “microtransit”, especially when vans are used. However, in Anaheim I sometimes found myself riding with just the driver on a 40 passenger bus. One time I said I felt bad about it, but the driver said it was part of their service. Most of ART’s fleet is electric now, although it’s still transit sized buses.

 

[kdonnel]

MARTA in Atlanta ran a 6 month trial of an on demand service named MARTA Reach from March 1, 2022 to August 31, 2022.

It sounds like a similar service. It was to test how and if shuttles could be used to facilitate completing a journey using MARTA.

A FAQ covering the trial:
https://itsmarta.com/uploadedFiles/..._News/Demand Response factsheet - 2022 v3.pdf

Here are the findings of the trial:
https://itsmarta.com/uploadedFiles/...MARTA Reach - PCP Committee Briefing 2_23.pdf

As part of the trial they compared the cost of the program if run fully by MARTA to being run by outside vendors(Lyft, UBER). I guess if run by an outside vendor it would be similar to the MinnieVan service Lyft operates for WDW.

It looks like the Atlanta trial was well received by the public but like any public transit method, would need to be highly subsidized to keep the price point low enough that people will use the service.

The rides were basically $5-$10 UBER/Lyft rides being offered for the standard MARTA fee of $2.50 which granted transfer rights to the regular bus or rail service.

 

[LuvOrlando]

This is outstanding, so many great use cases!

 

[bcla]

I didn’t really understand how it all worked until I tried it out. ART is only $6 for a one day pass, so it’s a really good price. I remember when its utility for Disneyland visitors was rather limited though. They had some low frequency routes that were inconvenient and thus little used. The tricky part was selecting the endpoints. I might be willing to walk a quarter mile, but the app might not have cooperated.

Some of these services seem to be targeted toward lower income areas that might be considered “food deserts” in order for more convenient access to supermarkets. Or for medical care.

https://thesource.metro.net/2020/03...ng-point-to-point-trips-within-service-zones/

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Our metro has IRIS being piloted starting a couple months back.

It's on an app and is a collab with the public transit, z-trip and RideCo

"

• $3 per person per trip within a zone
• Free fare when connecting to the zone’s designated IRIS transfer point. See map for locations.
• $4 per person when traveling between Northland Zones
• Introductory $5 per person when traveling to entertainment districts, such as downtown or Zona Rosa
• Introductory $10 to/from KCI airport from/to any Northland Zone. This great bargain applies to multiple people in the same trip booking going to the airport. Just $10 per trip booking. A trip may have 1 or more passengers traveling together. IRIS will board and deboard at the RideKC
• Pay in the IRIS app or on the booking website, payments are made at the time of booking with a credit or debit card. Customers may also select the offline payment option (cash or credit card) at the time of booking. When you board the vehicle, you will pay in cash or using credit card to the driver. Please have exact change. Driver does not carry change.

What is IRIS?
IRIS is an app-driven premium service. The service utilizes an on-demand dynamic routing model which picks up and drops off riders in locations within one quarter mile of their request. The service will get residents within a quarter mile of their destination for a minimal fee within a defined zone. Each service zone has designated transit transfer hub. This project is funded and led by the City of Kansas City and is contracting with KCATA. The Transportation Authority will manage the on-demand service.

Where is IRIS?
In time, the service will be available throughout city limits. IRIS will offer connected service to KCI's new terminal. IRIS will launch March 15 in the Northland. The goal is for the service to be rolled out city-wide by the end of the summer."



It's not really helpful to me because I don't really live near the intended service areas so I'd always have my car but I do know people who live in the areas of service who do uber and will be helpful to people who don't live quite as close to a RideKC bus stop or need more convenient pick up/drop off abilities.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Some of these services seem to be targeted toward lower income areas that might be considered “food deserts” in order for more convenient access to supermarkets. Or for medical care.

In my area the place the service is being piloted wouldn't be considered a food desert but would be considered lower income overall that is. Being connected to the entertainment zones and the airport (see my above comment) is more going to help those who use rideshare already, the rest is going to help lower income.

 

[bcla]

In my area the place the service is being piloted wouldn't be considered a food desert but would be considered lower income overall that is. Being connected to the entertainment zones and the airport (see my above comment) is more going to help those who use rideshare already, the rest is going to help lower income.

I do remember seeing someone boarding ART who appeared to be a Disneyland CM. I'm not sure if maybe employees of certain companies are provided passes.

At least this photo of one of their vans doesn't seem to have a California exempt plate. That looks like a standard commercial plate.

It seems that most of their buses are exempt (there used to be this E in an octagon), which can only be used by public entities.

But I do like the idea of public transit offering random rides. Some seem to contract with rideshare operators or with vans or truck-based buses. I look at taking public transportation sometimes and I'll see a route that looks promising until I find out that (for various reasons) only operated for commute hours.

Last year I spent about 7 days in the LA and OC area and got around solely on public transportation. Wasn't that easy. LA wasn't too bad because I spent a lot of time in areas with frequent service, although it could get a little bit interesting at times. But in Orange County the bus system didn't seem so great. But once I got to Anaheim I had something that was really nice where I spent $16 on a 3-day pass and could make up my own route, although there were a lot of holes in the service area. Buena Park had a small island of stops at/near Knott's, Medieval Times, and one hotel. It probably had to do with what businesses helped subsidize the service.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I do remember seeing someone boarding ART who appeared to be a Disneyland CM. I'm not sure if maybe employees of certain companies are provided passes.

At least this photo of one of their vans doesn't seem to have a California exempt plate. That looks like a standard commercial plate.

It seems that most of their buses are exempt (there used to be this E in an octagon), which can only be used by public entities.

But I do like the idea of public transit offering random rides. Some seem to contract with rideshare operators or with vans or truck-based buses. I look at taking public transportation sometimes and I'll see a route that looks promising until I find out that (for various reasons) only operated for commute hours.

Last year I spent about 7 days in the LA and OC area and got around solely on public transportation. Wasn't that easy. LA wasn't too bad because I spent a lot of time in areas with frequent service, although it could get a little bit interesting at times. But in Orange County the bus system didn't seem so great. But once I got to Anaheim I had something that was really nice where I spent $16 on a 3-day pass and could make up my own route, although there were a lot of holes in the service area. Buena Park had a small island of stops at/near Knott's, Medieval Times, and one hotel. It probably had to do with what businesses helped subsidize the service.

Yeah it looks like the IRIS here runs from 4am to 11pm so not super late but def. in times that are more helpful than a set schedule that the normal public transit might have.

Looks like the vehicles here will be z-trip ones branded as either IRIS or RideKC


When I read about it coming here a couple months back I thought it was a good addition to the metro, that ability to schedule a cost-effective ride option really helpful IMO.

We also have the Streetcar (which is free) in Downtown with an expansion being built so it's nice to do a more encompassing transportation option

 

[bcla]

Yeah it looks like the IRIS here runs from 4am to 11pm so not super late but def. in times that are more helpful than a set schedule that the normal public transit might have.

Looks like the vehicles here will be z-trip ones branded as either IRIS or RideKC
View attachment 761428

When I read about it coming here a couple months back I thought it was a good addition to the metro, that ability to schedule a cost-effective ride option really helpful IMO.

We also have the Streetcar (which is free) in Downtown with an expansion being built so it's nice to do a more encompassing transportation option

I've seen various free bus systems, but often they're private. Like Emery-Go-Round in Emeryville, California, which is subsidized by local businesses and employers.

But I do like the idea of on-demand systems, although efficiency could be a concern. A lot of these pilot projects seem to be car/van based with the idea that there are likely limits to how many riders can share a ride.

With ART they're just shifting some of their bus infrastructure for some on-demand use so that they can distribute rides in more random ways. I suppose they might otherwise have had limited bus service to more remote parts of their coverage area, which then self-limits who chooses to ride those routes. An on-demand service fills the holes nicely and can be really convenient for the rider. But it was really bizarre being the only passenger on a 40 passenger bus that wasn't on a fixed schedule.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But I do like the idea of on-demand systems, although efficiency could be a concern. A lot of these pilot projects seem to be car/van based with the idea that there are likely limits to how many riders can share a ride.

Actually I think it would be the opposite. They aren't intended to be like buses because well what would be the point? You might as well just have a structured bus stop. It costs money to operate not only in purchasing the vehicle but the gasoline and the maintenance involved in it but also the salaries of the drivers.

If the point is to be on-demand it would be more efficient to have more smaller vehicles than less larger vehicles. Operating a bus for 1 person to be picked up on demand at one random location costs a lot in the end. Seems inefficient to me to have 1 passenger in a 40 person bus.

You have to look at it like they are more akin to uber or lyft. That is what these pilot programs are modeling after.

 

[bcla]

Actually I think it would be the opposite. They aren't intended to be like buses because well what would be the point? You might as well just have a structured bus stop. It costs money to operate not only in purchasing the vehicle but the gasoline and the maintenance involved in it but also the salaries of the drivers.

If the point is to be on-demand it would be more efficient to have more smaller vehicles than less larger vehicles. Operating a bus for 1 person to be picked up on demand at one random location costs a lot in the end. Seems inefficient to me to have 1 passenger in a 40 person bus.

You have to look at it like they are more akin to uber or lyft. That is what these pilot programs are modeling after.

But that's what they're using in Anaheim. Not sure what the deal is other than they're already subsidized and perhaps a lot of their equipment was already paid for with public grant funding. Most of their newer buses are electric though, so that helps a bit with efficiency.

This was the typical bus I was taking, whether it was a fixed route or on-demand. This was one of the smaller ones so it might have seated maybe 30. The default image for this vid is of one at the train station, and ART no longer goes there with any fixed service. My first on-demand ride from the train station was actually the first time I'd ever ridden ART (other than the Toy Story Shuttle). It did feel a bit different than other rides. We were going straight from the train station to Buena Park for lunch. We boarded an empty bus, but didn't make a beeline for Buena Park. Our bus did pick up several passengers at hotel stops along the way and headed for Disneyland before going to our final destination. I thought that was the way it was supposed to work to make better use of the resources.

 

[tvguy]

We've had it here for 5 years. Called SmartRide. Never used it or public transit here with the current operator. Only time I have used public transit here was about 60 years ago when I was a kid.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But that's what they're using in Anaheim. Not sure what the deal is other than they're already subsidized and perhaps a lot of their equipment was already paid for with public grant funding. Most of their newer buses are electric though, so that helps a bit with efficiency.

This was the typical bus I was taking, whether it was a fixed route or on-demand. This was one of the smaller ones so it might have seated maybe 30. The default image for this vid is of one at the train station, and ART no longer goes there with any fixed service. My first on-demand ride from the train station was actually the first time I'd ever ridden ART (other than the Toy Story Shuttle). It did feel a bit different than other rides. We were going straight from the train station to Buena Park for lunch. We boarded an empty bus, but didn't make a beeline for Buena Park. Our bus did pick up several passengers at hotel stops along the way and headed for Disneyland before going to our final destination. I thought that was the way it was supposed to work to make better use of the resources.

I know but you mentioned the other pilot programs so I was speaking towards those. It's my guess that in Anaheim there are enough riders in a small designated area, basically population density. I think what they are more doing is in essence adding a flexibility feature to their public transit.

To me an on demand service is intended to quickly get someone from point A to point B based on that singular person requesting a ride from where they are at. It is sporadic in nature.

The way that IRIS here works presently is virtual stops that they say is located within 0.25 miles of "most areas of the Northland including neighborhoods, stores, restaurants, workplaces and community centers" So instead of a person having to walk to where a designated bus stop is (which can be much farther) and wait for the bus to come based on that schedule for that day and season (which could mean taking a bus that picks up long before their work schedule for instance) they can walk much closer and just on the app request a ride more on a timeframe that works. It more mimics uber and lyft and from my understanding most of the pilot programs are more like that and is used as a lower cost option.

At least here a person isn't likely to be located in close proximity to another person looking to go to the same area at the same time as they are. So you'd stand to have more of a chance of having one or two passengers in a bus meant to fill many times over that amount. But a smaller sedan or small enough van can more easily meet the demand of that one passenger needing that ride and then move onto the next rider, getting in and out of parking lots and whatnot obviously easier as well. The one here in addition to picking you up in the zone to drop you off where you want also has fixed stations that a person can request a ride to so they can transfer to the actual bus system for schedule route access. That feature is free and I would say adds that flexibility feature you're talking about for Anaheim.

What you're talking about with a bus making multiple stops along the way would only really work when you have enough people are calling on for transit at the same time and going to the same area. It is possible that Anaheim has more of that characteristic but I would imagine they would be rethinking that option if enough rides were going out with such little passengers. That's how bus routes get modified or removed as they notice ridership down in a particular area or time of the year. I know that the IRIS vehicles are shared but because they don't hold as many passengers as a bus like you're talking about the chances of being more efficient in getting someone from point A to point B more quickly would reasonably be higher. Think of it like a car holding 4 passengers at most would have 4 stops but a bus holding 30 passengers could potentially make that many stops if it was completely full. IMO I'm betting many of the IRIS vehicles would have 1 to 2 passengers with probably many having just 1 as they more quickly pick up and drop off.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We've had it here for 5 years. Called SmartRide. Never used it or public transit here with the current operator. Only time I have used public transit here was about 60 years ago when I was a kid.

I looked into that and the hours kinda suck. 7am-7pm or 6am-9pm. That immediately puts most workers in retail out of the ability to use it and it's only M-F..geez why even have that service? I'm sure people use it but that is not really helpful in the end IMO.

The one here is 7 days a week and 4am to 11pm.

 

[tvguy]

I looked into that and the hours kinda suck. 7am-7pm or 6am-9pm. That immediately puts most workers in retail out of the ability to use it and it's only M-F..geez why even have that service? I'm sure people use it but that is not really helpful in the end IMO.

The one here is 7 days a week and 4am to 11pm.

TV station I worked for moved to a new building in a new city. That city got a Federal grant to survey all our employees and suggest public transit and car pooling options. They couldn't come up with one suggestion. They asked questions like "the woman who anchors the 11 pm news lives a few blocks from the woman who anchors the 5 am news, can you change their work hours so they can car pool?" Ah, NO..
I worked 11 pm to 7 am for 25 years, and 3 am to 1130 am for 13 years and the public transit system was shutdown for at least half my commute on either schedule.
When I worked days, I did flirt with riding my bike to work. That was a 15 minute commute by car, and an hour by bike, and I checked public transit with with 3 bus changes, it would have taken 3 1/2 hours EACH WAY.

 

[bcla]

I know but you mentioned the other pilot programs so I was speaking towards those. It's my guess that in Anaheim there are enough riders in a small designated area, basically population density. I think what they are more doing is in essence adding a flexibility feature to their public transit.

To me an on demand service is intended to quickly get someone from point A to point B based on that singular person requesting a ride from where they are at. It is sporadic in nature.

A lot of these systems to make it clear that one might end up sharing a vehicle, but it probably depends on demand and the particular endpoints.

ART specifically caters to the tourism industry in Anaheim, so it was never designed as a general purpose transportation system for everyone. I absolutely get why they service the sports facilities and train stations. I'm not quite sure how Buena Park got involved, other than maybe Knott's or Medieval Times asked to join in. It's like this weird island in the service. But I was glad that I could use the service there.

If I had a service like that around here, I might just not drive some of the time. My biggest issue is frequency of service, so have the flexibility to

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

ART specifically caters to the tourism industry in Anaheim, so it was never designed as a general purpose transportation system for everyone

Ah then that's really different then. That's for the ease of tourist much like the KC Streetcar is. Sure the Streetcar takes workers from some place Downtown to another spot Downtown like maybe on their lunch break but really a lot is used by tourists when they come for events, locals use it of course too but usage is primarily for like events and such.

But to service the community itself and be primarily for the community's needs do not seem like that is the intended purpose.

 

[bcla]

Ah then that's really different then. That's for the ease of tourist much like the KC Streetcar is. Sure the Streetcar takes workers from some place Downtown to another spot Downtown like maybe on their lunch break but really a lot is used by tourists when they come for events, locals use it of course too but usage is primarily for like events and such.

But to service the community itself and be primarily for the community's needs do not seem like that is the intended purpose.

I don't know exactly how it works. Some of their vehicles have normal commercial plates, but others have California exempt plates that can only be for a public purpose. I used to use a garage that city vehicles would use and they all had exempt plates. So do all public transit buses, police/fire vehicles, and public utility maintenance vehicles.

The description I've heard of Anaheim Regional Transportation is that it's "quasi-public" similar to something like a port authority. It's legally chartered as a nonprofit corporation. Their board of directors is almost entirely executives at private companies - mostly hotel operators. The only member from a public agency represents the city of Anaheim. Apparently the Angels have a permanent seat on the board as does the Anaheim Ducks (and their arena). So does Disneyland.

https://rideart.org/board-of-directors/