OMG, out of control brownie troop!

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

What did I get myself into? There were signs of trouble that I just didn't get until now.

My daughter's been in a girl scout troop for a couple of years and a friend of mine is the leader. I've been on the outings and I knew some of the girls had some out of control behavior but I didn't realize just how much until tonight - when I ended up as assistant leader. Tonight was our first meeting and it was horrible IMHO. I don't know if this is going to work for me, most of the girls in the troop act like it's a big playdate (they are 7-8 years), do not follow directions, won't sit in the circle and participate - it's basically a free for all. My friend and another Mom that is active in the group are very sweet, probably too much so and the girls are running all over. I try to keep them focused and end up being "the enforcer", while my daughter is pouting because I make her behave while even the leader's child is testing all the limits she can Makes me the great big bad guy.

I really hate to quit the troop and I talked to DF after the meeting. Said I think we need to set some boundaries for the girls. DF tried to justify that they aren't that bad, kids will be kids, that kind of thing. I just can't handle that kind of behavior, basically I feel we're just babysitting and not accomplishing much as far as scouts.

So, looking for suggestions. I feel we need to let the girls know they need to be respectful to the leaders and fair to each other. We do want them to have fun and not make it too much like school. However, there currently is no consequence at all for not listening/misbehaving, other parents drop their kids and leave, not sure how they'd react if I disciplined their girls (time out? report to parents?) I don't have experience with groups like this.

Any strategies? Thanks in advance.

 

[clh2]

At your next meeting, have a quick discipline discussion.

There might be a couple of things going on.

First - when the girls start the meeting...maybe you need a nice game of red light, green light; or shadow tag, or something else where they move around a little. It just might burn off enough energy that they'll not be so obnoxious.

Another idea - have each parent come and lead a meeting. Nothing against your DF - but if she has been the leader for a couple of years, maybe the kids are just bored with her. Preparing for GS meetings over the course of a couple of years is a lot of work. If each parent leads 1 meeting throughout the year...the parents may find out how thier kids are behaving Plus, the kids may be a little more respectful of the "special guest".

I sympathize with the "leader's daughter' being the problem. My DD was like that at some of our meetings. One meeting...my DD said something that was not nice about me at the beginning of the meeting. I had her move to a separate table, and she worked on her homework. She did not earn the badge we were working on. I wasn't going to be THAT disrepected by my own DD.

Back to your problem - there needs to be a consequence with girls who are not behaving. Personally - after a pre-determined # of warnings, they sit out the rest of the meeting. If the problem persists, notify the parents that they need to sit out an entire meeting. Unfortunately, it looks like your meetings are on a Friday night...so it is real convenient for the other parents to use you as free babysitting while they go out and have a nice dinner.

Good Luck!

 

[akhenaten]

don't be harder on your DD than the others.. when my dd19 was in GS and I was the leader..I found myself doing that also..and it was not fair to her....

 

[barkley]

no advice-just my sympathies.

one of the reasons i pulled dd out of scouting was the abhorant behaviour i witnessed by the girls-so different from the way we were expected to behave (esp. when in our uniforms representing scouting) when i was in it as a child.

i was among the moms that would stay and could'nt belive the manner in which the girls behaved. what made it doubly worse for me was the girls met through the generosity of a local church in one of their rooms-and would regularly cause disruptions of the church groups meeting elsewhere in the building (choir, church council, weeknite bible study) i spoke to the leader and co-leader about it and was told something to the effect that they only had the girls for a couple of hours per week and if they 'wasted' headache: ) their time teaching the kids how to behave they could'nt focus on the 'important' elements of scouting like working towards badges, gearing up for the cookie sales and going on outings that's when i perceived that scouts and i had very different view on what is important in young girl's development.

 

[SomePixiedust]

As the PP suggested a disciplinary meeting is definitely in order. The girls need to be told what type of behavior is expected from them as to be fair to everyone. What we have done in the past is place a quarter in the middle of the table and explained to the girls that it is the phone call quarter. Anyone who misbehaves after 1 warning will be taken to the payphone (we meet in an elementary school and yes, there is still a payphone ) to call their parent for a ride home immediately. The parents are told that this is a possibility. We are not a babysitting service, we are there for a purpose which should be enjoyable for everyone. The parent is responsible for being reachable during our meeting time should they need to come pick up their child. We've never actually had to use the quarter because the girls know their parents won't be too happy if they get "inconvenienced" to come pick up their child. One warning of using it usually calms them down .

The issue of it being the other leader's daughter is sticky. I did have a similar problem. My co-leader's daughter was constantly an instagator of pulling out her cell phone (junior troop) and playing with it (texting, playing ringtones, taking pictures etc) which then encouraged other girls to do the same. After my co-leader not saying anything after 1 or 2 meetings of this, I made the rule that all purses and cell phones were put on a separate table and no one uses them unless there is an emergency. Sometimes you just have to take charge. Good Luck!

 

[sha_lyn]

next meeting have the girls brainstorm on troop/meeting rules and consequences. Write those on a poster board and put it up at every meeting.
It worked wonders for our troop.

Also do you have a set routine?
Also Check with your SU or council for free training sessons.
I took one back aroudn the beginning of summer. I don't remember the name but it had to do with how to run a meeting smoothly.
Might have been something like how to lead without screaming.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Thank you clh2, you so get what I'm talking about

That's a great idea about letting them do something active before we settle down to business. Usually they've gotten a coloring sheet, something more like a quiet activity, before everything gets started. I think playing an active game is such a better idea. Definitely worth a try, maybe they can settle down a little more after burning off some energy.

You know, DF mentioned having each parent do a meeting this year and I think that's also an excellent idea - if we can get them to do it. Mostly they drop their girls and go. I am going to pursue that.

I personally love the warnings and then sit out idea - I was thinking along those lines. Not sure DF will go for it but the behavior is going to have to change as far as I'm concerned. I think I'm going to talk to her about sending an email out explaining we've had some behavior problems and are going to implement a system like this. Would like to give the parents a heads up.

It is a problem that DF is very lenient with her own child. DD is good friends with this child so I've had to deal with her often. For example, there is now a hanging swinging chair kind of thing in the room we meet in at a local church. We've got no control over whether it's there or not but it hangs on a big, swinging wooden beam by a room size glass window We told the girls they could not sit in it. Guess how many times I had to tell a girl to get out tonight? Mostly the same girls over and over and I can just see them looking at me with that "is she gonna stop me" look on their face and "maybe I can get away with it the fifth time I try?" Unfortunately DF's daughter is one of those. She keeps testing because it works with her Mom, maybe she gets stopped misbehaving once but she gets away with it on subsequent tries.

I am not going to babysit this group, seriously. Either we get some order or I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop out

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Thanks, lots of replies while I was typing mine above.

Great ideas guys, thank you, I might be able to keep my sanity and stay with the troop. I just have to get DF to buy into it. I feel better about it all with your ideas.

It is hard on my DD, I realize that. What I want to happen is the other girls to behave more rather then my let my DD behave badly. That's the goal anyway. The problem I saw tonight was that while some girls are inclined to behave, the whole room disintegrates when one starts up (and it's the same ones that always start it). Soon that one is joined by another, and another, then it's the whole "why does she get to do that" thing until the whole group falls apart.

Thanks for the sympathies barkley, I am dead serious when I say the attitude of most of the girls is this is a big group play date and they don't even seem to understand or care that there are actually goals to work on. It's play time! Yikes.

Oh, I love the quarter thing, although I guess we'll use a cell phone and that involve the girls in establishing some troop rules I need the "how to lead without screaming" class

Thanks again, so much!

 

[agnes!]

Thank you clh2, you so get what I'm talking about

That's a great idea about letting them do something active before we settle down to business. Usually they've gotten a coloring sheet, something more like a quiet activity, before everything gets started. I think playing an active game is such a better idea. Definitely worth a try, maybe they can settle down a little more after burning off some energy.

You know, DF mentioned having each parent do a meeting this year and I think that's also an excellent idea - if we can get them to do it. Mostly they drop their girls and go. I am going to pursue that.

I personally love the warnings and then sit out idea - I was thinking along those lines. Not sure DF will go for it but the behavior is going to have to change as far as I'm concerned. I think I'm going to talk to her about sending an email out explaining we've had some behavior problems and are going to implement a system like this. Would like to give the parents a heads up.

It is a problem that DF is very lenient with her own child. DD is good friends with this child so I've had to deal with her often. For example, there is now a hanging swinging chair kind of thing in the room we meet in at a local church. We've got no control over whether it's there or not but it hangs on a big, swinging wooden beam by a room size glass window We told the girls they could not sit in it. Guess how many times I had to tell a girl to get out tonight? Mostly the same girls over and over and I can just see them looking at me with that "is she gonna stop me" look on their face and "maybe I can get away with it the fifth time I try?" Unfortunately DF's daughter is one of those. She keeps testing because it works with her Mom, maybe she gets stopped misbehaving once but she gets away with it on subsequent tries.

I am not going to babysit this group, seriously. Either we get some order or I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop out

A couple of thoughts...
Ask to be moved to a different room for your meetings (if possible)
Consequences and sitting out and calling parents to come pick their miscreants up
EVERY single Brownie has to have their parents run at least one meeting.

I feel your pain. My DD's Brownie Troop had ...(drumroll please!)...
25 GIRLS. Yeah, you read that right. Sometimes it was like herding cats.

agnes!

 

[sha_lyn]

The name of the class I mentioend earlier was Be on your best behavior.
Luckily my co-leader was online and I IM'ed her. She wlaked me through how to check my training record online

Also in my notes I have the following that she recommended to help manage a meeting


Peer Proofing
How to be an Effective Leader with your daughter in the troop

What to do instead of Screaming

Ceremonies and traditions.


there is also a song and games class.

 

[Tinkerbelle's Mom]

Oh my, I had to quickly look to see where you were from to make sure you were not one of the moms from my troop!! LOL!!

I have been the leader for three years now. What a pp said about the girls being "bored" with the same leader all the time is so true. While I remain the leader I have parents come in to lead meetings and activities. A "new" face can certainly change things up enough for the girls.

Our first meeting was so bad behavior wise. So I made tonights meeting a girl/parent combo meeting. Once we settled into our circle we had the rules discussion. I let the girls decide the rules and consequences for the most part with modifications where needed. The reason I had the parents there was so that they too would understand the consequences. Once the discussion was done I reviewed the troop rules and had the girls agree to them. At our next meeting a document will be sent home for the girls and thier parents to read, sign, and return.

I try to be as fair to my dd as possible. It is hard though. It is so much easier to be harder on her than the other girls. I don't have to worry about her mom complaining to me. LOL!!! Sometimes my dd is the instigator and is treated accordingly. DD has begun to understand her role as the leaders daughter and has enjoyed helping plan and suggest activites to the girls.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

agnes! - 25 girls! You must have the patience of a saint! Ours has 10 right now, and I do like all those ideas

sha_lyn - thanks for finding out about those classes for me. I'm so new to this, I will have to find out about taking those. I think DF needs to go with me! I know she's done training but I don't know what she's taken, will have to do some investigating.

Of course we want them to have fun but ya know, there is an objective here and at scouts you are supposed to learn about things like respect, teamwork . . .!

 

[sha_lyn]

Oh and co-leader said the peer proofing and How to be an effective leader wre great classes and had much more info.
Of course I'm certain that ll depends on the instructor, but I know the peer proofing is a "spelled out" program

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Tinkerbelle's Mom - that's too funny, at least I know we're not alone in our struggle.

Another great idea - to have the parents there for the "rules" meeting and to have them all sign a contract. I sure hope I can get DF to buy into all this, it makes so much sense to me!

Y'all have a great weekend, you've done your good deed for the day!

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Thanks for that too sha-lyn. I will check into that too.

We are supposed to have a brownie sleep over in about a month at DF's home. This has got to get under better control before we try that.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Now if you guys could just help me with my 12 yr old DS who can't seem to get his language arts homework turned in, even though he's done it! Oh, but that's a separate thread . . .

 

[sha_lyn]

you are very welcomed

I'm the "head" leader this yr for the first time. We have a multi-level homeschool troop.
I've volunteered with the trop from the beg and lead the dasies last yr

Now I'm the main leader and co-leading the Jr level

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

Well, I may be asking brownie questions here along the way, good to have all of you with experience around!

Seriously, I feel a lot better. This has bothered me all night, I just couldn't see it going on that way.

 

[barkley]

maybe this is just too simple an idea but how spending a troop meeting (and revisiting it as needed) reviewing the girl scout promise and the girl scout law?

the law that every girl promises to uphold includes being respectful of others-and specificaly those in authority-, considerate, helpful and responsible for what one says and does.

maybe spending time reviewing what the promise and the law says and how those things are to be practiced at the meetings could generate a discussion of behavioural expectations. have the kids brainstorm what being respectful means, what being considerate and helpful at the meetings entails, what personal responsiblity in ones words and actions 'looks like'. introduce it this way and then send the kids home with your troop's meeting and official gathering's code of conduct for the parents to review (and idealy reinforce).

don't know if it will work much but i can share that back in the day when i was a brownie and then a junior our meetings were right after school got out. as such the only way you could manage to wear your uniform (or modified version) was if it was worn to school that day. the leaders of the troops in our area were very intent on teaching us that when we were representing the scouts we had to be on our BEST behaviour-to the extent that if they learned and verified we had been in trouble at school on a day we had worn any portion of our uniform there-we lost the priveledge to do so and depending on the severity of what occured could be suspended from attending a subsequent meeting or event. this of course took 'buy in' from the parents but at least with the groups i was in the pledge and the law were instilled in us as not just what we recited at the begining of every meeting, but what we were to live and model to others.

 

[aprilgail2]

don't be harder on your DD than the others.. when my dd19 was in GS and I was the leader..I found myself doing that also..and it was not fair to her....

I don't discipline my daughter at all during the meetings- my co-leader deals with any issues with my daughter and I deal with any issues with her daughter so this was we are not yelling at our own child and this way you can't be harder on her than the other kids. We are a junior troop this year so we have 4th grade 8 and 9 year olds.
We had a parent come to each meeting last year so this way they could see how their little angels behaved at meetings and they were there to help out if needed- it was also that parents day to provide snack for the girls.
We only have 14 girls in the troop but when they come in they go right to their patrols- they are broken down to 3 patrols for the year and each patrol has a certain table to sit at. And magically the girls that are "trouble" when together are in seperate patrols right now! They come in, collect dues from each of the kids in their patrols and log it in, then they have snack and can talk a bit with each other and then comes the time they have to listen and my co-leader is good at that- she doesn't put up with anything!
My friends daughters troop is a mess, the kids are wild- the good thing about 6th grade and going into Junior High is that 5 grade schools combine so there are 5 6th grade girl scout troops so she was able to pull her daghter out of the wild one and pick a new one in the same school for her!