Omers and Cupe Strike - Are you going to go out illegally?

[tink&cinderella]

This is going to effect everyone - those of you not getting an Omers Pension will be paying for it through property tax increases.

It isn't fair to those who don't even benefit from Omers to have to fund the bill and the pension for those who do.

That is why everyone, should be concerned about this bill, not just CUPE and Omers affected individuals.

As far as taking risks goes - no where in my job description does it stipulate that I should expect that a client should assault me every now and then. In 11 years this is the first time this has happnened to me. So I am not an inexperienced worker. We take police with us to protect us from the risks and in this case two officers in uniform and another worker that was present were not able to protect me. Sorry but I don't think they pay me enough money to put up with that.

What is difficult is to go home and try to explain (or not) this to your family. If you don't you can't expect support, if you do, they no longer want you to work there as they fear for your safety.

Any way you look at my job- there are few positives - the media only picks up the negative - when was the last time you read in the papers or heard in the news that CAS returned a child, closed a file or helped a family with housing, support, counselling, finances etc. It is only when a child dies or gets injured - that stuff of course sells papers and has a lot of interest.

 

[digskat]

there are easy ways around the '49' issue, such as setting a minimum age factor. It has been done with other unions, such as Bell, and OPSEU's 60/20 early retirement. It would be easy to implement a 25 and out, with a 55 factor.
For Police/Firefighters I don't see too many 49 year old retirees. It is in a very rare case, that you see an officer hired before the age of 25, they tend to complete university, do a couple years of Auxilliary or Cadet work, then Police College, and finally they start a career. Most firefighters end up starting with volunteer careers first. Life expectancy of a firefighter and police officer, is also well below average, hence the request for early retirement, so a retirement at even 50, would mean closer to 15-20 years of payout, than 30-35.
Retainment isn't an issue, but historically has been an argument by the government. They talked up nursing and teacher shortages, but failed to mention that they reduced class space for teachers college, and changed requirements for nurses, from a 3 year college course, to a 4 year university course. The replacements are there, and with proper management, so is the funding. OPSEU has well over a billion dollars in their OPTrust pension coffers (even after losing $450 000 to the Tories) and it is even healthier after our recent court win versus Nortel. The teachers pension fund is the wealthiest of any union.
These groups do deserve the 25 and out, but it shouldn't be on the backs of the remainder of OMERS.

 

[digskat]

Any way you look at my job- there are few positives - the media only picks up the negative - when was the last time you read in the papers or heard in the news that CAS returned a child, closed a file or helped a family with housing, support, counselling, finances etc. It is only when a child dies or gets injured - that stuff of course sells papers and has a lot of interest.

I completely understand your frustration. As I said, I run that risk every day I work, and in 13 years, have had several assaults. My frustration levels skyrocketted, when a judge threw out criminal charges against an assaulter, because he felt it was "an inherent part of my job." I don't have the 25 year window, and McGuinty tossed aside 'factor 80', so I can look forward to the same crap for another 25 years, since the first 8 years, I was under contract, and don't count for pensionable time. When I am fortunate to retire, I will have put in 38 years. In the 13+ years I have worked in my building, 3 officers have retired, and lived another 2 years, while 4 have suffered heart attacks before they made it to retirement.
There is zero positive press for my profession, we are seen as brainless ogres, even portrayed that way by hollywood (The Green Mile, Alcatraz, Shawshank Redemption). The only time we are in the news, is when an inmate claims assault, commits suicide or escapes. There is no wall for tese officers killed in the line of duty, and when our contract comes up, we are portrayed as overpaid pencil pushers. I have experienced 3 riots, where my spouse has heard of the danger in the press, as I have been in the midst of it.

But at least I have my yearly trip to Disney

 

[MultiMut]

digskat, in the interests of sharing info (not a flame..., and of course we can all have different opinions)

1) Agree that setting an minimum age like 55 would be sensible and would help reduce concerns, but that's not what this bill is about. The bill also allows for a higher pension than 2% per year. This bill is about substantially better pensions for these groups.

2) Agree that freedom 49 is rare. But freedom 52 is the same order of magnitude in cost (i.e. count on 30% of pay in annual contribution split between member and municipality).

3) It's common perception that mortality for police/firefighters is much higher than average. But the reality is the difference in expected lifetime is not that big at age 50 (I'm not suggesting there is no difference, but that we're still taking about more years in retirement than as an active contributing member) (we all know examples of people who die within a short period of time after retirement, but the numbers show that the average expectation is still for a long retirement).

4) On the rich plans.... Ontario Teachers is very rich in assets, but they are also extremely rich in liabilities. The reality is that Teachers is in a very poor funded situation. The story is not much better for OPSEU, OMERS, etc... These plans are all facing serious deficit problems at this time.

On deserving a full pension after 25 years... sure they deserve it as do people in other roles like yourself and tink. But is it really affordable to provide full pension for 25, 30, 35 years of retirement at age 50 with contributions for only 25 years of employment. We're talking annual contributions of 30% of pay. I don't think 25+Out is affordable for society, not matter how worthy/noble/dangerous the profession.

McGuinty says don't worry about it, because the improved benefits will be paid for by the police/firefighters and municipalities, not by other OMERS members. But I would say that more often than not, pensions cost more than originally expected. Higher pensions for some translates into more risk for all. Risk for all OMERS members, and risk for all taxpayers in the province through higher property taxes.

I really posted more than I expected, but as I said, I have some knowledge about pensions.

 

[digskat]

have to disagree on the strength of the OPSEU Pension Trust (OPTrust), since 2002, we have rebuilt our surplus to the $900M mark, and our only blip, the Nortel mess, was just corrected by a lawsuit. A settlement of $600M in cash, and a further $150M in shares, was accepted by both parties. OPTrust is in the best shape it has been in 20 years.
As far as payouts, the average career in my profession is 35 years, the average retirement less than 10.........

 

[ambushangel]

It isn't the teachers it is the teaching assistants and teachers aids so the children with special needs that these people help out with are being ased to stay home all otehr students are to be in school. We got a letter yesterday from DD's school informing us of this. DD will be at school we have no problems but those families that have children with special needs will have to find somone to look after thier child or stay home from work.

My DS has a teching assistant with him from the minute he arrives at school to the minute that he leaves to go home. She is a wonderful person, but because of this possible I have had to make other plans because he can't be at school unattendent. My day care is going to charge me full day price because he will be there all day (I sort of understand their point), I can't take the time off work, one because no one knows how long this might last and two my company is downsizing and we're closing our doors March 31st and I don't want to cause any problems. So my only answer is to send my son out of town to family until this is resolved.

I understand that it's frustrating for the members, but what about the public that this will really affect. Don't get me wrong everyone will be affected by no snow clearing, no garbage removal and other city services, but thank god for my family or this would have cost me alot. It's not fair!

 

[tigercat]

I just have problems with the whole thing. My dh & I have no pension to look forward to. Very few benefits as well. He will have to keep working until the day he dies so that we will be able to live. We do not live high at all. We have struggled every day of our marriage to pay for our house and food and clothes. My ds now works at a government job and the is looking at a pension and has really nice benefits. We are glad that at least someone from the family will get something because I know we won't and neither will my 2 dd's whose dh's don't get either thing as well. It is really hard to hear people complain about these things.
tigercat
by the way my dh works 14 hr. days for 5 days and 8 hr. days for 2 days with no overtime earnings so that he can keep his job.

 

[tone.def]

by the way my dh works 14 hr. days for 5 days and 8 hr. days for 2 days with no overtime earnings so that he can keep his job.

Um, excuse me, but if he does those hours for the same employer, THAT'S ILLEGAL. I'm assuming you're not an illegal immigrant? Heard of the labour board? Enployment standards? That equals 86 hours a week. Even if he has 2 jobs and puts in 5 days at 14 hours at one job only, that's 70 hours a week. If he's not making overtime money, again, THAT'S ILLEGAL and it's time to find new jobs.

 

[Scratch42]

Um, excuse me, but if he does those hours for the same employer, THAT'S ILLEGAL. I'm assuming you're not an illegal immigrant? Heard of the labour board? Enployment standards? That equals 86 hours a week. Even if he has 2 jobs and puts in 5 days at 14 hours at one job only, that's 70 hours a week. If he's not making overtime money, again, THAT'S ILLEGAL and it's time to find new jobs.

It's not Illegal if it's your own company! Unfortunately, those rules do not apply!

It's a catch-22 and the best solution.....................

Have the Polititians Give Up their Pensions and spread it around!

Scratch

 

[tone.def]

Have the Polititians Give Up their Pensions and spread it around!

That's the best idea yet!

 

[Reese]

Now I am home because I was assaulted by a client on Valentines day in the presence of two officers and have a contusion on my face.


Tink&Cinderella

I hope your feeling better. My last face contusion was when I was seven months pregnant, Dh couldn't take me out anywhere because everyone kept glaring at him thinking he did it. I'm in long term care and since the closed the mental hospitals we became placement places for a lot of those residents. I have suffered a placental hemmorage from a punch to the stomach at three months, bites, scratches, a co-worker had a nose broken another an arm broken. Believe me they never told us we'de encounter this in school.
I'de hate to think that I'll have to pay more into Omers so that one section deemed as risky can retire early. If these jobs are so stressful and demanding why are there waiting lists of people hoping to obtain a job in these fields?

 

[CanadianPaco]

My parents both had union factory jobs and it was their union jobs that help pay for my university education. My university education allowed me to get a very good government job. I worked 2 jobs for 4 years to cover my costs and I earned my education. As I am paying into MY pension plan. All CUPE is asking for is what that Prov gov't promised (hahaha) the other unions: the ability to negoitate these benefits. It is that simple!

 

[tone.def]

This press release circulated at work (yes, I'm media) around 6 p.m.:


CUPE political action stepped down as talks progress

TORONTO * Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) Ontario President
Sid Ryan has stepped down province-wide political action scheduled to
begin at midnight tonight.

"We have had good, productive, constructive discussions with the
government during the course of the last 24 hours," Ryan said. "As I and
the Premier both said this morning, we have been working hard at a
solution that is mutually satisfactory."

While talks are continuing, Ryan said he hopes and expects that they
will be concluded shortly.

"We are determined to continue working at this with a view to complete
our work today," he said. "We are working hard to resolve the last few
details; however, I am confident enough at this stage to say that we can
step down our political protest planned for tomorrow."


-30-

For more information, contact:

Pat Daley, CUPE Communications, 416-***-****


I blanked out the phone number, but I left the name so you would know it's legit.

 

[BitsnBearsMom]

great...... so now can someone hurry up and get the 'legal' cupe strike in Guelph sorted out!! My builder can't even give me a close date for my new house b/c he can't get a building permit.... ds' swimming is out and my garbage is piling up to the point of being ridiculous!!

Sigh... hurry up city of Guelph and sort all this out!!

 

[tigercat]

Yes my dh works for one employer and no we are not illegal. Canadian born and bred. It is not for his own business either. It is however a family business. Working for a family business (unless you are in control which he isn't) as a family member with no control is the pits. As well working for a small business means that you are pushed to the limit by the big businesses. He is the electronic technition, the computer specialist (he sets up the computers, programmes them and takes care of all the problems that come up), the phone guy, outside sales, inside sales, tech support, the person who fixes the customer's machines at their place of business, and is part of the construction crew (he does all the electrical work when there is construction at the plant as well as helps do the rebuilding). I think that is all the jobs he does but I never really know now because things just always are added. He does this for a salary position with no overtime pay. It is work that has to be done so he does it. No pension, very little benifits and the pay until 8 years ago (He has been with the company for 32 yrs.) was bordering on the poverty line. Although he does now get 4 weeks vacation paid. That is really nice because he now takes off at least 2 weeks a year. He has 4 weeks on the books but everytime he looks at taking time off something else comes up but now we get 2 weeks. Before when he had 2 weeks we were lucky to get a week.
I agree that the government has no right to do things with the money that people have earned and put in, but I have a problem listening to people who get so much and then complain when they are not getting more. Maybe I am really talking about some of the employees that are not in any way risking their lives but are sitting behind a desk getting a lot of money, getting great benefits, a nice pension a lot of time off and thinking that they deserve more. I have a couple of family members that are part of the government or part of CUPE and they make me so mad. They are just very lazy greedy people. They in no way risk their lives sitting in front of a computer. They are not teaching anyone, or out in the front lines having to face the public.
tigercat