Old FP, New FP+

kasowell

Earning My Ears
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
41
A lot of people seem to be complaining about the new system only limiting people to 3 FP's per day. While I understand the problem I am confused as to the problem.
1. In the past were you not limited in the manner that one FP had to be expired before you could get another FP? For example if it was 10:00 am and I got a FP for Splash Mountain at 1:15 -2:15 didn't it not allow me to have another FP until after the first one expired? If I am right the theoretically if around 10:00 am I got a FP for the toy story ride at HS and by that time most of them were gone or if I was lucky I might get 8:45-9:45 then I was really limited to just the one FP.

2. If I get two FP+ at MK in the morning and then go to AK in the afternoon am I then allowed to get a FP+ for my remaining ride?
 
A lot of people seem to be complaining about the new system only limiting people to 3 FP's per day. While I understand the problem I am confused as to the problem.
1. In the past were you not limited in the manner that one FP had to be expired before you could get another FP? For example if it was 10:00 am and I got a FP for Splash Mountain at 1:15 -2:15 didn't it not allow me to have another FP until after the first one expired? If I am right the theoretically if around 10:00 am I got a FP for the toy story ride at HS and by that time most of them were gone or if I was lucky I might get 8:45-9:45 then I was really limited to just the one FP.

2. If I get two FP+ at MK in the morning and then go to AK in the afternoon am I then allowed to get a FP+ for my remaining ride?

1. No, you could get a new FP EITHER after two hours (I Believe) of the previous one, or when you used the previous one.

2. Nope...all FP+'s must be used in same park for that same day.
 
1. No, you could get a new FP EITHER after two hours (I Belive) of the previous one, or when you used the previous one.

2. Nope...all FP+'s must be used in same park for that same day.

1. Close. You could get another FP after the window opened (no requirement to use it) on your existing FP or two hours after you got the existing FP, whichever was earlier. As a result, you could easily get 6, 7, or even more FPs--especially if you arrived at rope drop.

2. :thumbsup2

OP, see the green link in my signature for more FP+ info.
 
A lot of people seem to be complaining about the new system only limiting people to 3 FP's per day. While I understand the problem I am confused as to the problem.
1. In the past were you not limited in the manner that one FP had to be expired before you could get another FP? For example if it was 10:00 am and I got a FP for Splash Mountain at 1:15 -2:15 didn't it not allow me to have another FP until after the first one expired? If I am right the theoretically if around 10:00 am I got a FP for the toy story ride at HS and by that time most of them were gone or if I was lucky I might get 8:45-9:45 then I was really limited to just the one FP.

2. If I get two FP+ at MK in the morning and then go to AK in the afternoon am I then allowed to get a FP+ for my remaining ride?

1. No you did not have to wait until your first fastpass expired. You only had to wait two hours or until your first fastpass expired. It always told you on your fastpass what time you could retrieve your next one. So if like you exampled above you got a TSM FP at 10 AM, you were eligible to get your next at noon. However, say you got a FP at 10 AM and it was good for say 11 AM, then you'd be able to get your next FP earlier than the two hour mark, or as soon as that 11 AM FP expired.

2. No, you have to use all FP+ selections in one park.
 

1. No you did not have to wait until your first fastpass expired. You only had to wait two hours or until your first fastpass expired. It always told you on your fastpass what time you could retrieve your next one. So if like you exampled above you got a TSM FP at 10 AM, you were eligible to get your next at noon. However, say you got a FP at 10 AM and it was good for say 11 AM, then you'd be able to get your next FP earlier than the two hour mark, or as soon as that 11 AM FP expired.

2. No, you have to use all FP+ selections in one park.

You could get another FP at the beginning of the existing FP's window--not when it expired (the end of the window).
 
Don't forget the FPs that weren't connected to the system that you could get whenever you wanted throughout the day. ;)
 
Don't forget the FPs that weren't connected to the system that you could get whenever you wanted throughout the day. ;)

:thumbsup2 There were typically 2 to 3 of these in MK (only).

And since you went there, I'll also add the "pixie-dust"/"surprise" FPs that you got in certain cases.
 
This isn't a putdown, so bear with me. The knowledge level of the FP system by the OP is typical, or greater, of maybe 95% of Disney World visitors. These people rarely used the FP system up to its potential. However, Disers mostly belong in the other 5% and know lots of ways to amass FP tickets and use them to get much more out of their day at a WDW park. The new FP+ system is not for the 5%ers, it is for the 95%ers.

The crowds at WDW parks the last several years have gotten very noticeably larger and the vast majority just didn't know how to get a moneys-worth day from their perspective. By changing the FP "day of" system to FP+ "advanced reservation" system, Disney is giving a better "moneys-worth" day to the 95%ers by guaranteeing them short lines on some popular rides.
 
This isn't a putdown, so bear with me. The knowledge level of the FP system by the OP is typical, or greater, of maybe 95% of Disney World visitors. These people rarely used the FP system up to its potential. However, Disers mostly belong in the other 5% and know lots of ways to amass FP tickets and use them to get much more out of their day at a WDW park. The new FP+ system is not for the 5%ers, it is for the 95%ers.

The crowds at WDW parks the last several years have gotten very noticeably larger and the vast majority just didn't know how to get a moneys-worth day from their perspective. By changing the FP "day of" system to FP+ "advanced reservation" system, Disney is giving a better "moneys-worth" day to the 95%ers by guaranteeing them short lines on some popular rides.

I agree with this in principle. Doesn't mean I like it. ;)
 
This isn't a putdown, so bear with me. The knowledge level of the FP system by the OP is typical, or greater, of maybe 95% of Disney World visitors. These people rarely used the FP system up to its potential. However, Disers mostly belong in the other 5% and know lots of ways to amass FP tickets and use them to get much more out of their day at a WDW park. The new FP+ system is not for the 5%ers, it is for the 95%ers.

The crowds at WDW parks the last several years have gotten very noticeably larger and the vast majority just didn't know how to get a moneys-worth day from their perspective. By changing the FP "day of" system to FP+ "advanced reservation" system, Disney is giving a better "moneys-worth" day to the 95%ers by guaranteeing them short lines on some popular rides.

:thumbsup2 exactly what I was going to say
 
This isn't a putdown, so bear with me. The knowledge level of the FP system by the OP is typical, or greater, of maybe 95% of Disney World visitors. These people rarely used the FP system up to its potential. However, Disers mostly belong in the other 5% and know lots of ways to amass FP tickets and use them to get much more out of their day at a WDW park. The new FP+ system is not for the 5%ers, it is for the 95%ers.

The crowds at WDW parks the last several years have gotten very noticeably larger and the vast majority just didn't know how to get a moneys-worth day from their perspective. By changing the FP "day of" system to FP+ "advanced reservation" system, Disney is giving a better "moneys-worth" day to the 95%ers by guaranteeing them short lines on some popular rides.

By your math, its likely that wouldn't be the case.

As more people use FP+ to skip lines but also to take ride capacity via FP+, SB lines would slow down considerably.

This isn't the reality of course, as FP- was being used, often to its fullest, but there is no way that 5% of guests were using 100% of the FP- capacity. It also might be true they have added more FPs to add additional FP capacity to headliners ... not sure if they have or not.

Which means, a good deal of people in your 95% will also have their ability to take advantage of FPs curtailed.

I see how FP+ works for some people, who went in busy season and didn't want to RD. Or for people who like "knowing" they have FPs booked, even if that means they have the capacity to do fewer rides than before.

But I don't really see this as a marked improvement for 95% of people, who, will be just as likely to have Disney select FPs for them, since they don't know which to pick, and show up with an FP in hand for a ride with a 10 min or less wait, while not getting FP for the ride with an hour plus wait. Knowledge will still be a factor here, but they have simply reduced the ability to maximize the system, without really ensuring that it increases the enjoyment of others, only giving them the option/potential for some.
 
I see how FP+ works for some people, who went in busy season and didn't want to RD.

I understand the thinking, but for me and my family I think RD is actually more important now than ever before. Now we need to RD to get to some of the n busier rides, and not waste a FP+ on them. Then use the other three to FP+ other rides. Plus the if you want to park hop, then RD is very importnat since you have to choose the park to FP+ (which is probably the second or third park).
 
This isn't a putdown, so bear with me. The knowledge level of the FP system by the OP is typical, or greater, of maybe 95% of Disney World visitors. These people rarely used the FP system up to its potential. However, Disers mostly belong in the other 5% and know lots of ways to amass FP tickets and use them to get much more out of their day at a WDW park. The new FP+ system is not for the 5%ers, it is for the 95%ers.

The crowds at WDW parks the last several years have gotten very noticeably larger and the vast majority just didn't know how to get a moneys-worth day from their perspective. By changing the FP "day of" system to FP+ "advanced reservation" system, Disney is giving a better "moneys-worth" day to the 95%ers by guaranteeing them short lines on some popular rides.

I'm also with you on this. It almost looks like one of the goals of FP+ was to get people to use FP. I'm sure they kept a list of people that complained about long lines and when the CMs asked them if they used FP- they either got "Whats FP?" or "I'm not giving Disney any more money just to skip lines.".

Now that everyone (at least onsiters) knows about FP+, overall there are less FPs available.

Thats about all I can comment since we were one of the last people to get to use FP- at every park. The machines were turned off a few days after we went to AK.
 
This isn't a putdown, so bear with me. The knowledge level of the FP system by the OP is typical, or greater, of maybe 95% of Disney World visitors. These people rarely used the FP system up to its potential. However, Disers mostly belong in the other 5% and know lots of ways to amass FP tickets and use them to get much more out of their day at a WDW park. The new FP+ system is not for the 5%ers, it is for the 95%ers.

The crowds at WDW parks the last several years have gotten very noticeably larger and the vast majority just didn't know how to get a moneys-worth day from their perspective. By changing the FP "day of" system to FP+ "advanced reservation" system, Disney is giving a better "moneys-worth" day to the 95%ers by guaranteeing them short lines on some popular rides.

Not inaccurate. I said in a previous thread that my husband and I were informed on multiple occasions that Disney research discovered that the average guest only used 1.3 Fast Passes per day. If I were a betting woman, I would bet that the majority of people dragging down the average were people who didn't realize that Fast Pass was free with their park ticket. The problem, however, with limiting the FP+ to just 3 a day is that it will not negatively impact those who used fewer than 3 a day, but it will negatively impact those who used more than three, especially those who used 6, 7, 8, and even more a day.

I also said in a previous thread that depending on your touring strategy, you will either love or hate Fast Pass+. My family has always been a bunch of early risers. We don't set an alarm at Disney and still end up waking up, showering, getting ready, and being at our park of choice before rope drop. At every park, there was at least one ride that we used multiple fast passes on. There were two parks (Hollywood Studios and Epcot, if you are curious) where we only used FP on two rides, but we used multiple FPs for those rides. It was not unheard of for us to use 6 a day and at a park like Magic Kingdom, where we could take advantage of detached fast pass rides such as Barnstormer and Dumbo, we used even more. As such, FP+ has drastically changed how we tour and, in our opinions, it has changed it negatively. We work around it, we still go to the parks, but our touring strategies are quite different.

My sister, on the other hand, is a night owl. When we were young, she was always the one who kept my parents and me from getting to the park early. She would much rather sleep in, get to the parks when she got there, and do her thing. For her, FP+ is a better fit. She doesn't have to worry about the TSMM or Soarin' fast passes all being gone. She doesn't get to do them multiple times, but in the past, she never did them multiple times, either, and sometimes didn't get to do them at as she was unwilling to wait in a line for over an hour. She didn't typically use more than 3 FPs so the limit to only 3 FP+ isn't really a problem.




Personally, I feel that what would have been the best solution is to have kept legacy Fast Pass for all guests. In other words, business as usual for Fast Pass. Then, as an added bonus to resort guests, Fast Pass+. That way, as long as you are a resort guest (and, let's face it - that is what Disney wants), you can tour in a style that best fits your family. As is, they are making it more difficult for one group or another. I'd assume that the previous poster is correct and they are trying to make it better for that 95%, which isn't necessarily a poor decision, but if that 5% turn out to be the repeat guests that we all believe them to be, it might turn out to be a poor decision. I guess time will tell.
 
Should also say it would have be interesting to actually get some specifics here, we know Disney has them.

On the financial call the other day it was stated that FP+ usage as increased over FP- ... which is interesting. Although we don't know if that means people are "booking" FP+s or are actually showing up for FP+s, if this is a result of more rides having FPs for them etc.

But its pretty clear that Disney has numbers on what % of people "used" FP- and what % "use" FP+ ... they just deign not to tell us :P For all we know it was an uptick from 64% to 65% using FPs, or it was an increase from 5% to 90% .... though I imagine if it were the later they would have proudly announced those numbers.
 
Not inaccurate. I said in a previous thread that my husband and I were informed on multiple occasions that Disney research discovered that the average guest only used 1.3 Fast Passes per day. If I were a betting woman, I would bet that the majority of people dragging down the average were people who didn't realize that Fast Pass was free with their park ticket. The problem, however, with limiting the FP+ to just 3 a day is that it will not negatively impact those who used fewer than 3 a day, but it will negatively impact those who used more than three, especially those who used 6, 7, 8, and even more a day.

Would really like to know where the information comes from, I mean, it could very well be true, but if we are going to use numbers its always nice to know where they are coming from.

I generally agree with the second bolded portion, though, it might not work out that way for a few reasons I can see.

The first is that wait times may increase, which means that for those who didn't use FP- their over all experience might still decrease, they might use FPs for rides that don't really need them, while overall wait times might increase.

Even if they only used to use 2 FPs for example in Epcot, Soarin and TT, no longer possible.

There might be specific increases in wait times (as opposed to the general increase I spoke about earlier) on rides that now have FP that did not in the past.


For the record, I think the new system will be a net positive for some people, though even most of them have noted that they are making trade offs, but on balance like the new system more. I think more people will use the system, I don't know if you count this as a positive for them or not, since they could have always used the previous system, and thus it wont be a system change that really is the difference rather than an informational change, and for many this will be major detraction from the value of their trips.
 
Would really like to know where the information comes from, I mean, it could very well be true, but if we are going to use numbers its always nice to know where they are coming from.

I generally agree with the second bolded portion, though, it might not work out that way for a few reasons I can see.

The first is that wait times may increase, which means that for those who didn't use FP- their over all experience might still decrease, they might use FPs for rides that don't really need them, while overall wait times might increase.

Even if they only used to use 2 FPs for example in Epcot, Soarin and TT, no longer possible.

There might be specific increases in wait times (as opposed to the general increase I spoke about earlier) on rides that now have FP that did not in the past.


For the record, I think the new system will be a net positive for some people, though even most of them have noted that they are making trade offs, but on balance like the new system more. I think more people will use the system, I don't know if you count this as a positive for them or not, since they could have always used the previous system, and thus it wont be a system change that really is the difference rather than an informational change, and for many this will be major detraction from the value of their trips.
We were quoted the 1.3 number by different cast members. The first time we heard it was a guest relations person at Epcot. A survey taker at Epcot told us the same thing, as did one cast member working the turnstiles at Hollywood Studios.
 
I'm going to be a bit simplistic in offering an explanation, so I apologize in advance.

There is one stat provided by Disney that I don't think anyone will dispute:

  • 50% of previous park guests did not use FP.

Now let's assume that Disney was being proactive, noticed increasing crowds and standby lines, correctly assumed that was only going to get worse in years to come, and wanted to do something about it - besides adding new attractions, of course, which could have the effect of further increasing crowd levels, aggravating the original problem, and ultimately calling for the original solution anyway.

So Disney comes up with an elaborate (and patented) system designed to:

  • Increase guest usage of the reservation system to as close to 100% as possible
  • Add more attractions - if not all of them - to the pool of resources available that can be scheduled
  • Manage, as best and as closely as possible, the daily guest experience in a manner that attempts to accommodate both learned and predicted personal preference

What we have is FP+ and it is entirely possible that "3 in one park" has nothing to do with what the average guest used in the past and how they used them but is based more on what the current pool of you-can-schedule resources can accommodate on any given day based on a particular daily guest load established by Disney planners and managed as best as possible by an app (MDE) using algorithms and formulas and predictive behaviors intended to meet the above outlined objectives as efficiently as possible.

Which is, incidentally, why they also commented they were able to accommodate an additional 3K guests in MK over the holidays.


(And Shaden, I responded to your PM but I don't know if it went thru).

...
 
I'm going to be a bit simplistic in offering an explanation, so I apologize in advance.

There is one stat provided by Disney that I don't think anyone will dispute:

  • 50% of previous park guests did not use FP.

Now let's assume that Disney was being proactive, noticed increasing crowds and standby lines, correctly assumed that was only going to get worse in years to come, and wanted to do something about it - besides adding new attractions, of course, which could have the effect of further increasing crowd levels, aggravating the original problem, and ultimately calling for the original solution anyway.

So Disney comes up with an elaborate (and patented) system designed to:

  • Increase guest usage of the reservation system to as close to 100% as possible
  • Add more attractions - if not all of them - to the pool of resources available that can be scheduled
  • Manage, as best and as closely as possible, the daily guest experience in a manner that attempts to accommodate both learned and predicted personal preference

What we have is FP+ and it is entirely possible that "3 in one park" has nothing to do with what the average guest used in the past and how they used them but is based more on what the current pool of you-can-schedule resources can accommodate on any given day based on a particular daily guest load established by Disney planners and managed as best as possible by an app (MDE) using algorithms and formulas and predictive behaviors intended to meet the above outlined objectives as efficiently as possible.

Which is, incidentally, why they also commented they were able to accommodate an additional 3K guests in MK over the holidays.



(And Shaden, I responded to your PM but I don't know if it went thru).

...

This is what I think is the case as well. Perhaps that number will vary with actual attendance numbers. On a day when attendance is low, people may be given access to more than 3 (but of course those would be the day of).
 


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