OKW discriminates to Handicap ?????

[BillM]

Now let me say first that OKW and DVC and also WDW are great destinations to the Wheelchair or ECV handicap...but.....I find it hard to understand that OKW will not let the above type handicap be booked in the new buildings with elevators. The reason I was given was that in case of fire the elevators stop working. I was told this at check in at OKW and also recently when I booked a ressie with MS.
But what I don't understand is that I have stayed at HH and had to go up an elevator to our villa and also at BWV.
I had thought that when the new buildings at OKW were built the WC and ECV handicap would have access to the upper floors. Also a Grand Villa. As you may know OKW prior to the new buildings did not have a Grand Villa that was accessible and neither does DVCHH. Also at HH they can build a ramp to the General Store on the second floor but they can't build a ramp to access the Grand Villa. Or what happens if you stay at the Contempoary or the GF.
Again we think DVC and WDW is great but are we being discriminated at OKW?

How do you figure????

 

[RobDoc]

There is one GV at OKW with 1st floor access and all other villas with accessibility are on the ground floor- no problem with accessibility there- no elevator needed.

At GF and CR there are also ground floor rooms which require no elevator access.

At HH, all 5 GV's enter on the 3rd level of the building- one level higher than the General Store. There are no ground floor rooms at HH in any building. I don't know what they'd do if the elevator was shut down at HH.

At VB, none of the Beach Houses (GV's) are accessible, but there is an accessible lock-off 3BR in one of the other buildings.

At BWV and VWL there are also ground floor villas which are accessible without the need for an elevator.

Good question.

 

[BillM]

Thanks Doc. Glad to learn that there is at least one GV at OKW that is accessible. But it does seems that DVC is inconsistant with our resorts as to accessiblility to GV.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Which building is the ground floor GV in?

We asked for building 62 because my Mom will be with us and she needs a wheelchair. MS never mentioned the restriction to me when we made the request (and they knew the request was because of the wheelchair).

Is this a policy that MS doesn't know about?

Frankly, I find the argument regarding the elevators to be suspect. While it's difficult, a wheelchair can be manuvered down steps in an emergency. Do other Disney resorts restrict wheelchairs to ground floor only rooms?

 

[Chuck S]

I haven't stayed in any of the new buildings, yet. But, could it be possible that while the floors may be accessible via the elevators, that the rooms themselves are not w/c evc rooms (lower sinks, roll in shower, etc)? Since MS knows someone in your party will be in a w/c perhaps they assumed you wanted a room outfitted for full access. Just a thought.

If the new rooms are indeed fully outfitted for w/c it really doesn't seem like it would have to do with fire/evacuation. While a w/c can be manuevered down steps, an ecv cannot. And neither would be good if time is of the essence for an evacuation. Power could fail to the elevator in an emergency situation.

 

[BillM]

Firefighter Mickey

We had also requested in my Nov ressie that we would like a building with an elevator. Also handicap accessible. When we checked in at the front desk at OKW 11/26 we showed them our confirmation which had the above requests. They assigned us to Bldg 27. I asked about the new buildings with elevators and they said "you can't stay on the below ground floors because the elevators don't work in the event of a fire". Recently when I made a March ressie the CM told me the same thing.

We have always stayed on the ground floor at OKW and we wanted to stay on an upper floor to improve the view.

As I indicated I have stayed in handicap 1 BR villas at BWV and HH and in both cases you had to use the elevator to access the villas.

 

[Towncrier]

The handicap accessible GV is in either building 47 or 48. We stayed there in 1998 with my sister (who needs a wheelchair to get around the parks but who can negotiate stairs if necessary) and her family. I was under the impression that there were two Grand Villas that were equipped for wheelchair access. If there is only one, I can hardly believe that we were fortunate enough to book 10 months out for a July vacation.

 

[RobDoc]

I was under the impression that there were two Grand Villas that were equipped for wheelchair access.

There could well be 2. That was the area I was thinking of for a ground floor GV.

Thanks, Towncrier!

 

[mikek]

firefighter micky-

dont mean to be morbid, but i'm kinda shocked that you would qestion that.

Dont mean to be freak any one out, but did you see any of the stories about handicapped folks in the WTC? I know its a far cry form 3 stories at 110 but i dont think anyone wants to do have it on their mind the day after the 1 in a 1000 freak accident.

My wife's friend's husband worked in the WTC. He and a co-worker started walking down from the 80's. The husband stopped to help some wheel-chair bound folks down because his father needs one and he worried that the firefighters wouldn't get to them in time- the co-worker kept going by himself. The co-worker made it but they still haven't found the the husbands body.

So I think that while they might be able to figure out a way to build ramps, questioning their logic on this one is a little harsh.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

2 flights of stairs is not the same as 110 stories. Further, to compare the sudden collapse of the WTC with a typical fire (even in a high-rise structure) is also stretching things quite a bit.

Generally, people in wheelchairs can be safely evacuated from a building even if the elevators are not functional.

Disney's policy regarding this is silly. They allow people in wheelchairs to go on rides like Spaceship Earth - a difficult ride to evacuate anyone from, let alone someone in a wheelchair.

 

[walter]

Many building codes require an area of refuge for the handicapped. Therefore as posted earlier by someone, this inability to use the new buildings seems inconsistant with the intended design. In New York State (outside of NYC), the building code requires multi-story, multiple resident housing w/elevators for all units to be accessible.

 

[Chuck S]

They allow people in wheelchairs to go on rides like Spaceship Earth - a difficult ride to evacuate anyone from, let alone someone in a wheelchair.

True, but they limit the number of mobility challenged guests that are on the hard to access rides at any given time...usually folks with mobilty problems wait longer to board than if they had waited in line with the ambulatory folk. Theoretically, all guests in one DVC unit could be in w/cs, thus slowing an upper level evacuation.

 

[mikek]

Firefighter micky-

I know theres a BIG difference -thats why i mentioned it originally

its a far cry form 3 stories at 110

Also You mean to tell me you cant think of a scenario where access to the elevator could be impeded but the stairways were clear and before rescuers arrived the stairways too became blocked?

My point was- they do have a basis. That the policy wasnt arbitrary or malicious. Maybe 'silly' as you point out but not meant to discriminate.

Maybe they never thought that there was a big difference between a 2nd or 3rd floor and the ground floor. So assuming all else being equal, they decided why risk it (although i agree its tiny.) I have occasion to make safety related decions at work, and i always ask myself- is there any way i'm going to have to explain my decision to someone's widow or children that it was my stupid decision that got somebody hurt or killed. If i can think of any way that could happen, I dont permit the situation to exist.

 

[drusba]

As to the OKW elevator buildings, I believe this is one that you should probably take up with DVC management. My understanding is that the new buildings were given elevators mainly to comply with building rules created after the older units were built, which new building rules were adopted to assure that upper floors were handicap accessible (although not necessarily with handicap facilities in the rooms). Other hotels (including BWV) have elavators to handicap rooms and the statement that the rooms cannot be used by persons with disabilities because the elevators might stop in a fire sounds facetious (if that were the case persons with disabilities would be effectively eliminated from every major hotel in any large city where all rooms are accessible only by elevator).

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Firefighter Mickey
Which building is the ground floor GV in?

We asked for building 62 because my Mom will be with us and she needs a wheelchair. MS never mentioned the restriction to me when we made the request (and they knew the request was because of the wheelchair).

Is this a policy that MS doesn't know about?

Frankly, I find the argument regarding the elevators to be suspect. While it's difficult, a wheelchair can be manuvered down steps in an emergency. Do other Disney resorts restrict wheelchairs to ground floor only rooms?

I used a wheelchair at WDW for a couple trips after back surgery. MS knew that I would need a wheelchair, although I was mobile, and did NOT want or need an accessible room--I wanted to save that for the guest who really needed grab bars and such. But both times we were assigned first floor rooms. Since I'm feeling better and no longer using a wheelchair, I haven't had that notation when I called, and we've always had upper floor rooms. Coincidence?

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by BillM
Now let me say first that OKW and DVC and also WDW are great destinations to the Wheelchair or ECV handicap...but.....I find it hard to understand that OKW will not let the above type handicap be booked in the new buildings with elevators. The reason I was given was that in case of fire the elevators stop working. I was told this at check in at OKW and also recently when I booked a ressie with MS.
But what I don't understand is that I have stayed at HH and had to go up an elevator to our villa and also at BWV.
I had thought that when the new buildings at OKW were built the WC and ECV handicap would have access to the upper floors. Also a Grand Villa. As you may know OKW prior to the new buildings did not have a Grand Villa that was accessible and neither does DVCHH. Also at HH they can build a ramp to the General Store on the second floor but they can't build a ramp to access the Grand Villa. Or what happens if you stay at the Contempoary or the GF.
Again we think DVC and WDW is great but are we being discriminated at OKW?

How do you figure????

Very simply put, read the ADA. You are not being discriminated against. The ADA states that 'reasonable accomodation' must be made to give access to all individuals regardless of handicap. Reasonable accomodation. It does NOT mean that you get exactly the same room, exactly the same view, exactly the same anything. It means that there is some give and take. The company has to spend money to be able to offer a reasonably similar experience to you that it offers to other guests. It also means taht guests with handicaps must have reasonable expectations of what a company will do for them. So if they choose to build all barrier free rooms on the first floor, as long as they are building them, they are in compliance. They do not even need to have barrier free rooms in every catagory of room if they do not choose to do so! As long as they aren't all the most expensive rooms, or they don't charge more for a barrier free room, they are in compliance.

Discrimination takes place once a business decides that it would be too costly to make simple modifications and does nothing. Or if the barrier free rooms were only available in the most expensive catagory. But this is not the case. They have barrier free rooms in all four possible configurations, and with all views available for that cofiguration. When you book a DVC room, regardless of which resort, there is never a guarantee of exactly which room you will be in. You can only choose your size and general view, and "request" other things, such as building number, floor, etc. So I don't see where there is discrimination based on that. I've NEVER had my request for a specific view or floor granted. Does that mean I'm being discriminated against? I think not.

Anne

 

[Dean]

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here but there are some points I feel I must make. If anyone is offended, I'll apoligize in advance for upsetting them but not for the statements themselves.

It is impossible to build a room that provides the optimal situaion for every different type of need or disability, the companies must meet certain requirements based on the ADA laws and the interpretation of those laws. This will not work the same for everyone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who asks for a first floor room for medical reasons and is upset when they get a handicapped room, is being unreasonable. At this point, there are more handicapped rooms than the need for them and that means that some people must therefore get these rooms. Until the need picks up (as it will some day), one is not taking a handicapped room away from someone who needs it. It's certianly OK to ask for a ground floor, non handicapped room but remember it's only a request. What I wonder is that since requests cannot be guaranteed, what happens if they don't have a handicapped room for someone that needs it. I assume they book those with hard requests and further assume if they have 28 requests and 25 handcapped rooms (just an example) that they would tell 3 people they don't have a room for them, even if there are regular rooms available. What would they do if a room went out of usage like a flood or fire and then then didn't have enough handicapped rooms to fit the need. It's much like a parking lot required to have 6 handicapped spaces but there are 8 that need the spaces, the company is still in compliance with the laws.

If I were in charge, I'd have concerns about having those with limited mobility, such as wheelchair bound, being on the upper floor where the elevator is the main means of getting up and down for EXACTLY the reason Disney quoted. If someone wanted to sign a waiver AND legal review suggested that waiver would hold up in court, I'd let them go for it. Obviously there is no way to take all of the risk away but remember that most companies are trying to follow what the ADA says for legal reasons not altruistic ones. They will rarely go above and beyond without a specific reason to do so and they should not be expected to.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Ground floor rooms for medical requests such as a wheelchair are the same as any other request as far as I can tell - they come first on this list, but nothing I've seen says that DVC does anything to go out of the way to accomodate those requests - certainly my experience has been otherwise.

You wonder about the liability of DVC with regard to elevators. How about the liability if because of this stupid policy, someone is placed in a situation where they have no choice but to move a wheelchair up and down those steps 2 or 4 times a day? It would make an interesting court case I think to deny someone access to an elevator building, even if it was available, and they were subsequently injured by falling down the steps because they had no other option.

 

[Dean]

Disney tries very hard to accomodate medical requests. I guess I was thinking with my fingers, wondering out loud if DVC or WDW for that matter, matched the handicapped rooms on the front end. Then what would they do if they didn't have a handicapped room to meet the needs of a guest. I guess if I were curious enough, I could go over to the disabilities board but not tonight. If Disney doesn't have room and one decides to go anyway, I doubt there would be much liability. Disney is usually pretty good at covering their back side.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

I'm not convinced that they try very hard to meet medical requests, though I'm sure they do very well at covering liability issues.

Last time I invited my folks and grandmother, knowing what I thought was the situation with the GV's (all on second floor), I also secured 2 studio rooms. My mom is in a wheelchair, my grandmother, while mobile, cannot negotiate steps. At 11 months, I asked for both studios ground floor for medical reasons, all non-smoking, and if possible near each other.

We got one studio on the ground floor, the second studio on the second floor and all of us in a smoking building - the only request that was fully met was the one I cared about the least.

Luckily my grandmother cancelled out on us, so having the second floor studio was not an issue. Housekeeping went above and beyond to change out bed covers and blankets as well as ionizing the GV (wife has asthma, and smoke bothers her quite a bit).

My single biggest fear with this trip, is that even though I made the reservation 14 months in advance (SSPL*) and so should be at the top of the list for requests, is that we'll end up with another smoking GV on the second floor w/o at least elevator access. I would have done a ground floor studio for my parents again, but because of all the changes with the rest of the family cancelling out, it wasn't an option.



*SSPL - special seasons preference list; no longer used at any of the DVC resorts, but when it was active, it allowed you to get on the list first-come first-served and make reservations for the Christmas holiday period in advance of the normal booking windows.