OKW 2042 - 2057 deed

[bababear_50]

My take on reading page two is that there is no mention of (OKW,,curious,will they have to go through this for each 2042 resort or is this authorizing them at any time to extend any of the 2042 resorts???) but that it is an extension of operation of the resorts from 2042 to --2057 ,,,a blanket statement .Making all OKW owners who have a shared interest in this resort effectively now owners until 2057.
By using a special assessment they have guaranteed their right to place lien upon said contract until the assessment fee is paid (25.00) or the extended ownership is paid out. In traditional condo situation a owner can be prevented from certain rights until this lien or assessment is honoured. I'm not sure how DVD works.??
I would hope that DVD takes care of any legal paper work and does not put this upon owners to do so,,,A few weeks ago I would have said this is a guarantee but not feeling to sure of DVD right now.
I would be hoping for a much lower price per point and perhaps that will happen.

 

[bababear_50]

That's the purpose of this resolution - to extend all of the current deeds thru 1/31/2057 and it's also the reason for the "Special Assessment". In this context, all OKW owner's deeds would get the extension without asking for it and would be required to either pay DVD the $25 per point or assign the rights for the additional years to DVD. After about 2:15pm on September 24, 2007 all OKW owners will own thru 1/31/2057 and will have a "Special Assessment" in recognition of that decision. Owners can satisfy the assessment by either paying the monetary amount or "subletting" the last 15 years to DVD. The resolution will automatically extend the timeframe for the deed - the only decision for current owners is how to satisfy the accompanying assessment.

In other words WELCOME HOME TO 2057----The NEW OLD KEY WEST!!!,lol

 

[mikesmom]

Just a hypothetical question, but the letter seems to indicate that this will be put on the table at the meeting. What happens if this is not voted in? Can they do it anyway?

 

[RobDoc]

Just a hypothetical question, but the letter seems to indicate that this will be put on the table at the meeting. What happens if this is not voted in? Can they do it anyway?

No, if the Board of Directors votes against these resolutions DVD cannot do this by themselves- HOWEVER - DVD has already "reviewed the proposed resolutions and considers them to be appropriate for approval. As a consequence, DVD intends to cast each Unit's vote to approve the resolutions at the Members Special Meeting." The resolutions have come from DVD and it is a foregone conclusion they will be passed by the body (DVD Board of Directors) that is suggesting them.

Those voting at the Members Special Meeting are basically DVD representatives and will also vote as directed. There is no real oppportunity for input from us as members regarding any of these resolutions. In addition, there will be little (if any) change in those doing the voting at these "two" meetings.

The DVD Board is the body recommending these changes and will be the first meeting to vote on passage. Five minutes later, essentially the same people will vote to have DVD accept the changes made by the Board.

 

[OneMoreTry]

DVD will take care of all documents for this assignment.

In fact, I suspect that the lien would not even be an issue unless/until you try to sell your contract. (Perhaps one of our legal experts can comment about that.) I suspect that the reported discount of $10 per point will be offered thru February 29, 2008 , DVD will also offer financing for those interested, DVD will provide assignment documents for those who do not want the extension, DVD will hold to the $25 pricing for anyone who decides after February 29, 2008 that they want the extension and those who end up with a lien placed on their account but simply allow the contract to expire on January 31, 2042 will have no other costs to pay. Those with a lien who try to later sell their contract will then need to either purchase the extension at $25 (or whatever the going rate may be at that time) or sign over the extension to DVD at that time.

So at that time we can buy the extra points if the buyer wants to pay the difference. Or not buy. Seems that not buying the extension now is kind of a win-win.

 

[m4travel]

I suspect that the reported discount of $10 per point will be offered thru February 29, 2008.

Just got the notice of the meeting on the 24th and started cruising the boards. I haven't yet seen a reference to the reported discount of $10/point. May I ask the source of this figure?

Thanks for all the information!

 

[RobDoc]

Just got the notice of the meeting on the 24th and started cruising the boards. I haven't yet seen a reference to the reported discount of $10/point. May I ask the source of this figure?

Thanks for all the information!

Several have reported they were told of the $10 discount, but nothing official has been sent out about that. $25 is the amount noted in the letter I received.

 

[Pa@okw95]

I paid less than $50 a point for 50 years so the $25 a point for 15 years is way over priced. I don't like the idea of being forced into making the decision so far awaw from 2042. I have seen changes in WDW in the last few years that would make me think twice about things down there anyway, what is WDW going to be like in 42?

 

[dianeschlicht]

That's the purpose of this resolution - to extend all of the current deeds thru 1/31/2057 and it's also the reason for the "Special Assessment". In this context, all OKW owner's deeds would get the extension without asking for it and would be required to either pay DVD the $25 per point or assign the rights for the additional years to DVD. After about 2:15pm on September 24, 2007 all OKW owners will own thru 1/31/2057 and will have a "Special Assessment" in recognition of that decision. Owners can satisfy the assessment by either paying the monetary amount or "subletting" the last 15 years to DVD. The resolution will automatically extend the timeframe for the deed - the only decision for current owners is how to satisfy the accompanying assessment.

All right, now THAT makes sense to me. I didn't understand that before either. We are still on the fence about what we will do, but it's looking like we will NOT extend unless they have a discount for extending early.

 

[Cap]

DVD will take care of all documents for this assignment.

In fact, I suspect that the lien would not even be an issue unless/until you try to sell your contract. (Perhaps one of our legal experts can comment about that.) I suspect that the reported discount of $10 per point will be offered thru February 29, 2008 , DVD will also offer financing for those interested, DVD will provide assignment documents for those who do not want the extension, DVD will hold to the $25 pricing for anyone who decides after February 29, 2008 that they want the extension and those who end up with a lien placed on their account but simply allow the contract to expire on January 31, 2042 will have no other costs to pay. Those with a lien who try to later sell their contract will then need to either purchase the extension at $25 (or whatever the going rate may be at that time) or sign over the extension to DVD at that time.

If someone does not want to extend and the lien gets placed, how will this impact their credit ratings?

 

[tjkraz]

If someone does not want to extend and the lien gets placed, how will this impact their credit ratings?

Well, if you don't want to extend, just fill out the paperwork sent and there are no worries.

I completely agree with Doc's take on the specifics of what is happening here, but in the end it boils down to a $25 (or $15) charge for adding 15 years to the contract. If you don't want the added years, respond to DVC's notification by saying as much and that should be the end of it. The contract will still expire on 1/31/2042, no addititional fees are due and no lien will be placed.

The only circumstances under which there would be a lien is if one fails to respond to the notice, is billed the Special Assessment, and does not pay the fees. If a lien is placed it may or may not impact credit, but it will certainly impact one's ability to use one's points. DVC can suspend all current reservations and future booking abilities until the debt is satisfied.

 

[tjkraz]

My take on reading page two is that there is no mention of (OKW,,curious,will they have to go through this for each 2042 resort or is this authorizing them at any time to extend any of the 2042 resorts???) but that it is an extension of operation of the resorts from 2042 to --2057 ,,,a blanket statement .Making all OKW owners who have a shared interest in this resort effectively now owners until 2057.

I finally got a chance to read the notice carefully and wanted to respond to this statement. Actually OKW is mentioned by name--it's legal name. Old Key West was originally known as the Disney Vacation Club Resort when it was the sole DVC property. As such, whenever the Notice / Resolution specifically addresses "Disney Vacation Club Condominium", it is specifically citing what we know as Old Key West. The notice applies to OKW only, not the other 2042 resorts.

 

[tjkraz]

Several have reported they were told of the $10 discount, but nothing official has been sent out about that. $25 is the amount noted in the letter I received.

I find it interesting that the (rumored) $15 figure is nowhere to be found. In fact, the first paragraph of the resolution states that "the Association" (which I understand to be "DVC") will pay $25.00 per point to DVD (the developer.) If the resolution is going to bind DVC to paying $25 per point to DVD, why would they then turn around and discount the amount of the owner assessment to just $15 per point?

I know to a large degree this is just Disney taking money out of one pocket and putting it in another. But to me it doesn't make sense to have both the Board and the Condo Association pass resolutions which specifically cite the $25 figure, only to later discount it to $15.

 

[ATCMickey]

A question for those legal minds on this board,

First, before anyone blasts away, I realize that if I don't care to extend that my resolution may be as simple as signing a piece of paper....

But from a principle standpoint...

How is it a special assessment could be used to involuntarily extend a contract. I understand special assessments as a concept. They would allow a governing board to make financial obligations on behalf of its members in order to protect owners interests. BUT OUTSIDE OF THE CONTRACT PERIOD! Surely someone must be able to substantiate these legal assertions that it is within the purview of the association to extend my contract without my express consent?

Sure...the roofs deteriorate prematurely within my contract period...assess a special assessment. The siding deteriorates prematurely within my contract period, assess a special assessment. But someone please show me where our contracts afford the association the right to to extend my personal contract, on my behalf, beyond the agreed upon contract period....

Thanks in advance

 

[DVC92]

After reviewing the POS, it appears the ground lease upon which our contracts are based is considered a common element of the condominium. As such, it may be proper to base a special assessment upon it. However, any special assessment should be used to fund current shortfalls of the condominium as they arise. The only use of this money appears to me to be for DVD's payment of rent for the ground lease to Lake Buena Vista Communications (a Disney Co.).

I don't see how they can use this guise to essentially effect a unilateral modification of our purchase contracts. It is a basic tenet of contract law that there must be an agreement of both parties and include some form of consideration for a contract to be valid. There may be consideration of 15 additional years if we pay the fee (they made us an offer and we accepted); however, putting a lien upon us if we don't deed something to them we don't own appears to me to be illegal. In effect, they are destroying the old contract and creating a new contract.

Even if you don't accept, your original contract will have been altered since future yearly assessments for reserves will take into account the years 2042-2057.

 

[zzyzx409]

I won't be alive in 2042, much less 2057, but...

It seems to me that extending is a good idea. Aren't some of the newer resorts already a longer time than OKW?

Right now, I believe OKW resale is about $75 and other resorts are about $100. It seems to me that having the longer time could be a benefit for resale and a detriment if one does not have it.

Also, if I am not mistaken, doesn't OKW have larger room sizes than other properties at WDW? So a longer term should make OKW a more valuable property.

I see 2042 OKW going down in value and 2057 OKW going up in value for resale.

What do you think?

Andy

 

[ATCMickey]

Even if you don't accept, your original contract will have been altered since future yearly assessments for reserves will take into account the years 2042-2057.

DVC92,

Thank you for your well reasoned response. The point you outlined above is a factor I had not considered. To a certain extent we'll be paying for it whether we choose to or not.

ATCMickey

 

[Amy5000]

I won't be alive in 2042, much less 2057, but...

It seems to me that extending is a good idea. Aren't some of the newer resorts already a longer time than OKW?

Right now, I believe OKW resale is about $75 and other resorts are about $100. It seems to me that having the longer time could be a benefit for resale and a detriment if one does not have it.

Also, if I am not mistaken, doesn't OKW have larger room sizes than other properties at WDW? So a longer term should make OKW a more valuable property.

I see 2042 OKW going down in value and 2057 OKW going up in value for resale.

What do you think?

Andy

While other resorts may have higher resale prices than OKW, it's not necessarily a function of a longer lease. While OKW is around $75, SSR resales (which expire in 2054) are around $82 to $85. The other WDW resorts with higher resale values (other than AKV) also expire in 2042. I believe they command higher prices due to (1) location, and (2) the fact that they are smaller resorts than SSR and OKW (supply and demand).

Of course, the closer we get to 2042, there will be a difference in resale value. But I suspect that the difference in resale values will not be $25 per pt for some time. (It may not even been $15 per pt immediately either).

Anyway, I don't own OKW, but good luck to all you making this decision.

Amy

 

[Mississippian]

I won't be alive in 2042, much less 2057, but...

It seems to me that extending is a good idea. Aren't some of the newer resorts already a longer time than OKW?

Right now, I believe OKW resale is about $75 and other resorts are about $100. It seems to me that having the longer time could be a benefit for resale and a detriment if one does not have it.

Also, if I am not mistaken, doesn't OKW have larger room sizes than other properties at WDW? So a longer term should make OKW a more valuable property.

I see 2042 OKW going down in value and 2057 OKW going up in value for resale.

What do you think?

Andy

The present value of 15 extra years 35 years from now is about two or three dollars, at most. $15 dollars invested at nine percent, which is not an unreasonable return, would grow to more than $300 in 35 years. $25 would grow to $510. So take the $25, multiply by the minimum point purchase of 150 to get $3,750, put it in a tax-deferred retirement account, and you will have $76,552 to spend in 35 years. Of course, if you figure 12 percent, which is the historic return of the stock market, that figure grows to $197,998. Both of these figures far outstrip inflation. If you figure inflation at five percent, which is far more than it has been for the past 20 years, then it will take $20,685 to in 35 years to match the buying power of $3,750 today.

This buy 15 extra years scheme is one of the biggest scams I've seen in a long time. The way Disney is forcing the members to opt out or be billed is sure to cause some lawsuits, as well it should. This is as crooked a deal as I've ever seen.

 

[zzyzx409]

The present value of 15 extra years 35 years from now is about two or three dollars, at most. $15 dollars invested at nine percent, which is not an unreasonable return, would grow to more than $300 in 35 years. $25 would grow to $510. So take the $25, multiply by the minimum point purchase of 150 to get $3,750, put it in a tax-deferred retirement account, and you will have $76,552 to spend in 35 years. Of course, if you figure 12 percent, which is the historic return of the stock market, that figure grows to $197,998. Both of these figures far outstrip inflation. If you figure inflation at five percent, which is far more than it has been for the past 20 years, then it will take $20,685 to in 35 years to match the buying power of $3,750 today.

This buy 15 extra years scheme is one of the biggest scams I've seen in a long time. The way Disney is forcing the members to opt out or be billed is sure to cause some lawsuits, as well it should. This is as crooked a deal as I've ever seen.

You make some really good points. Since my original post that you responded to, we have been doing a lot of thinking and have decided not to extend. Just not worth it! Your calculations show just how much it is not worth it from a financial standpoint (for us the extension would only be about the financial advantage, if any).

We will not be around in 2042 or 2057 and we were planning to just sell our intertest in 5 to no more than 10 years anyway, and the additional investment outlay just would not make sense.

It will be extermeley iteresting to see just how many people do extend.

Andy