OK, let's all fight about what's wrong with kids today.

[Goobergal99]

It's amazing how many parents can't connect the dots. I've seen it all from diapers to college, with my friends and their kids. The ones who didn't discipline are the ones who are having the worst trouble now, plain and simple,, but they really act like they can't figure out what went wrong.

And what good would it do me to say, "Well, remember that time at McDonalds when your kid was smearing ice cream all over the slide and you said "If you don't stop, we're leaving", but he kept doing it and you didn't leave -- in fact, when the McD's employee yelled at your kid you got mad at the employee? Well, that -- in effect, is why your kid isn't coming in until 5:00 am and he smells like marijuana." (actual example!!)

Of course there are exceptions -- we know a couple that seemed to be doing all the right things and their kid is sitting in jail right now... but those cases are rare.

LOL.... I agree but again, I try not to be overly judgemental of ppl's parenting either. My mom occasionally spanked me and didn't allow me to do whatever I wanted and I still made some pretty big mistakes in life in some ppl's eyes. I mean I am a college grad, a registered nurse, I am working on my masters raising an incredible kid with my husband and yet some ppl can't look beyond how old we were when she was born. I certainly don't think my mom was a bad mother just b/c of that but some ppl would disagree.

I will say that even here on the DIS "most" ppl are very tolerant of poor choices but really you can be a perfect parent and still end up with a messed up kid. one of the docs I work with was just telling me a story about how his son was thrown out of Princeton for selling drugs out of his bedroom.

 

[Goobergal99]

This thread reminds me of that Carlin skit....

The kid who sticks pennys in his nose repeatedly may not grow up to have kids of his own.

Well he put it somewhat differently but I don't want to get flamed

 

[auntpolly]

I will say that even here on the DIS "most" ppl are very tolerant of poor choices but really you can be a perfect parent and still end up with a messed up kid. one of the docs I work with was just telling me a story about how his son was thrown out of Princeton for selling drugs out of his bedroom.

Just because they go to Princeton and their parents are professionals, it doesn't mean they were parented perfectly -- sometimes I think people with money are waaaaaaaaay worse than people without.

In fact, DD and I were just saying how it seemed like the parents who obviously weren't poor and probably "looked" like great parents were doing a much worse job than some of the "have nots" we saw at WDW.

 

[Goobergal99]

Just because they go to Princeton and their parents are professionals, it doesn't mean they were parented perfectly -- sometimes I think people with money are waaaaaaaaay worse than people without.

In fact, DD and I were just saying how it seemed like the parents who obviously weren't poor and probably "looked" like great parents were doing a much worse job than some of the "have nots" we saw at WDW.

Well thats true too.... I sort of knew that would be the response. But honestly, they had a very good relationship, his kid just messed up. I think some of the strictest parents also end up with messed up rebellious kids. Take my DH and his siblings for instance

There needs to be a middle ground

 

[auntpolly]

LOL.... I agree but again, I try not to be overly judgemental of ppl's parenting either.

I really don't want to be judgemental of friends, either, but when they are saying to me, "What happened? I can't imagine why he won't listen to me!!!" I can't help but think about when they were little and they never made their kids listen.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I don't really think kids are that different, and I really titled the OP incorrectly -- it's parents who have something wrong with them.

I totally agree! I've made it clear to my kids that I do not expect to be their buddy all the time. I'm their mom and it's my house, my rules. When they are supporting themselves they can do as they wish. Our roles are clear. I am close to my kids, but I am the parent and they know that. But I also think that they get comfort from that since they know that I am always there for them as a parent--not someone trying to stay on their good side.

 

[auntpolly]

I think some of the strictest parents also end up with messed up rebellious kids. Take my DH and his siblings for instance

There needs to be a middle ground

That's what Dr. Phil says, LOL! You are very right! He says that kids in jail today come from 50% of parents who were too unplugged, and 50% who were too strict.

I'm not saying that you should beat a kid who crawls under the table at the CA Grill -- not at all! But you don't ignore it either.

 

[Pinnie]

I really don't want to be judgemental of friends, either, but when they are saying to me, "What happened? I can't imagine why he won't listen to me!!!" I can't help but think about when they were little and they never made their kids listen.

It's like my grandmother used to say, "The way the twig is bent, is the way the tree will grow."

If these parents ignore the "little" problems when kids are little, don't be surprised when BIG problems come up later.

pinnie

 

[Christine]

Well, I've noticed that kids behavior went totally downhill when parents went on the NO SPANKING bandwagon.

I remember back when I was about 10years old (back when we ran around the neighborhood). There was a family on the block who had two young boys. I think when I was 10 they must have been about 5 and 7 years old. These two boys were the biggest brats in the neighborhood. We all dreaded it when they came outside.

I remember one day all of us kids were talking about how we couldn't stand them and one of the kids said "You know, their parents don't spank and I think that's why they are like that." Later on, I went home and asked my mom about it (because in that neighborhood all the parents knew each other). My mom says "Oh yes, there's a new theory that if you don't spank your kids they will be better behaved, less prone to hitting others, and it will make them feel better about themselves." We both kind of shrugged and broke out into laughter. Even at 42, I've never forgotten that family, those kids, or that conversation. Apparently, that was the start of the new movement and bad behavior!!

 

[Goobergal99]

That's what Dr. Phil says, LOL! You are very right! He says that kids in jail today come from 50% of parents who were too unplugged, and 50% who were too strict.

I'm not saying that you should beat a kid who crawls under the table at the CA Grill -- not at all! But you don't ignore it either.

You are right, I think I would have had to react. However my DD acted up in a toy store once and I got a lil loud with her and by the stares I got from other ppl you would have thought I was knocking her around

My mom was in the middle..... but she leaned toward the left a lil more probably b/c of the trauma of losing my dad so unexpectantly, she tried to shelter me from it but I was a very in touch, sensitive, gifted child so she really couldn't.

I always joke with DH that had my dad been alive I would have gotten married a virgin with a chastity belt

 

[Goobergal99]

That's what Dr. Phil says, LOL! You are very right! He says that kids in jail today come from 50% of parents who were too unplugged, and 50% who were too strict.

I'm not saying that you should beat a kid who crawls under the table at the CA Grill -- not at all! But you don't ignore it either.

My DH really wasn't that bad but my DBIL was a reck. In fact I have a kind of funny story...

MY DH use to wash dishes at a local restaraunt and he was on his way home after work when he was hit by a car. My MIL received the call and was fuming all the way to the hospital b/c she thought that it was my DBIL running from the cops. When she got there and signed the papers, she saw that it was my husbands name and birthdate on the form and still she swore that my DBIL used his identity. She finally got to the room and saw my DH and then just broke down... "Oh my god, it's my good son"

Not really funny, but it did cheer him up a lil. I remember her calling me and telling me the story that night and I just had to laugh. When I had DD, my FIL sorta freaked on my DH but my MIL said "well he was always the good one so he had to do something against the grain" we still have a laugh about that one

 

[auntpolly]

My DH really wasn't that bad but my DBIL was a reck. In fact I have a kind of funny story...

MY DH use to wash dishes at a local restaraunt and he was on his way home after work when he was hit by a car. My MIL received the call and was fuming all the way to the hospital b/c she thought that it was my DBIL running from the cops. When she got there and signed the papers, she saw that it was my husbands name and birthdate on the form and still she swore that my DBIL used his identity. She finally got to the room and saw my DH and then just broke down... "Oh my god, it's my good son"

Not really funny, but it did cheer him up a lil. I remember her calling me and telling me the story that night and I just had to laugh. When I had DD, my FIL sorta freaked on my DH but my MIL said "well he was always the good one so he had to do something against the grain" we still have a laugh about that one

That is a good story! And you know it makes me think though, how a good parent never really stops trying to help a kid do the right thing.

Im not so old that I don't remember wanting to give up, to look the other way, to let DD "just do it because I'm tired and I don't want to deal with it anymore." This parenting stuff isn't for sissies. DD wasn't perfect when she was a teenager just because I made her behave in public places when she was little. But you just never can give up. You have to keep saying, "no" "stop that" and it's exhausting. Sometimes you just want to say "Oh just do it I don't even care anymore."

 

[Goobergal99]

That is a good story! And you know it makes me think though, how a good parent never really stops trying to help a kid do the right thing.

Im not so old that I don't remember wanting to give up, to look the other way, to let DD "just do it because I'm tired and I don't want to deal with it anymore." This parenting stuff isn't for sissies. DD wasn't perfect when she was a teenager just because I made her behave in public places when she was little. But you just never can give up. You have to keep saying, "no" "stop that" and it's exhausting. Sometimes you just want to say "Oh just do it I don't even care anymore."

Your right, and you know what as strict as my DFIL was. I think my MIL was the medium even if they were divorced, she still kind of kept him in touch. It's funny b/c despite all the crap my BIL did, he turned out ok in the end. My FIL and my DH are pretty close now too, my FIL even admits to be hard on him. But in the same respect, he also tells him what a great father he is to DD and how proud he is of him.

My mom might have taken a different approach by being my buddy but then again, I wasn't an immature kid. I made mistakes, yes, we all do. But I also made some very mature and wise decisions so she must have done something right.

Now back to the matter at hand, what about the kids who talk down to their parents, I think I would have been knocked out.....

 

[challada]

Haven't read all 8 pages, but have to say, I agree w/the general frustration.

I am a parent of young ones, but can say my DH and I have created very clear and REINFORCED expectations for our children. These kids KNOW what will happen if wrong choices are made...just as they KNOW what will happen w/good choices.

I also work w/kids. Here's what I've observed: most of the parents of these unruly kids are folks who really don't have a clue. I have tested preschoolers whose parents just sit back and watch the behavior and say "I don't know what I should do"...therefore, they do nothing...which reinforces the behavior. I have often seen a child for 5 minutes and been the one to say "STOP THAT" before the parent. It's very sad.


Here's my tidbit story:
DD goes to an advanced gymnastics class. Most of the girls are older than her except for one who is about the same age as DD (only a year older instead of 3 or 4). I always here complaints from DD after gym about this other younger girl being "not nice". We talk about how my DD can deal w/it and when to get adult help (DD will be on gym team w/her for the rest of forever now). Well, I stayed to watch gym last week...and watched this other girl actually hitting kids (not DD), etc. I then watched her grandma who was waiting w/her younger brother. The entire time, grandma smiled at the hitting and said nothing. When younger brother started hitting grandma, she just smiled and said nothing. Then grandma started play punching the boy too.
hmmm...don't say anything and then behave just like the three year old...I wonder why there is a problem!
At one point the boy was beaning grandma w/dodgeballs as he stood about 3 feet away from her. When one ball got loose and came my way, I took it away from him and said "excuse me" (to prompt him to show any manners). He tried to grab the ball away from me, but I stood up w/the ball and walked away saying "no, you don't know how to be nice to your grandma, you are not going to play this game any more." All I got was a pissed off grandma for that!!!!

 

[allie&mattsmom]

I see so many parents that have the attitude that their child can do no wrong. It drives me crazy. I am always getting accused (in a friendly, laughing sort of way ) that I'm too hard on my kids, especially my DS b/c he's the one who usually is into mischief. For example, he has been corresponding with a little girl as his penpal all year and they were finally going to come to his school the other day to meet face to face. So I talk and talk to him about making a good impression, etc.. Well, he comes home that day and I asked how it went. He says fine and runs off to play. DD tells me she heard him telling his buddy on the bus that his penpal called him weird. So I talk to Matt and he says she did but that he didn't care because he was kindof being weird. Finally I get it out of him that he was being his usual class clown, goofy, silly, show off self in front of her. So I grounded him from TV the rest of the night. My friends were saying "Aw, poor Matt, can't catch a break, get's called weird by his penpal and then his mom grounds him for it!". Well, the point of the grounding was because he knew we had talked about making a good impression and instead he goes of and acts, well, WIERD! So I guess sometimes maybe I'm too hard on my kids but at least they know there are consequences to their behavior. I think that is so important.

 

[pigletz]

I teach 8th grade so I get to see how they turn out when parents don't parent. I teach in an inner city school and some of my kids have excuses for being difficult. They truly have had awful things happen to them. Most of my kids though come from normal families whose parents just don't have a lot of money. I never blame the kids. I blame the parents whether it's a parent who is still a gang member and has raised their child in that environment or its a parent who has completely spoiled their child. There are a few general things that I've noticed have changed over the years that have contributed to this attitude that kids can do whatever they want.

1. Too much emphasis on self-esteem. Self-esteem is a good thing and we should instill it in our children. The problem, I think, is that we have gone way overboard. Parents are afraid that if they discipline their children the child will feel bad. It's the same with sports teams where everyone gets to play or this trend of giving gifts to the siblings of a birthday child. What ever happened to teaching kids that sometimes you won't make it the first time, or maybe you need to work harder, or it just isn't your turn.

2. Parent's who defend and even reward bad behavior. It's not vandalism, he's showning his artistic ability. She's just social. I can't tell your how many times I've heard excuses like this. I'm sorry, but your child can't write on my walls and your child can't get up in the middle of class to walk over and visit her friend. A lot of my kids have no fear of any consequences that we can give. Why be afraid of a detention when your mother will make up an excuse to get you out of it. Why be afraid of being suspended when all it really means is you'll get to sit at home and watch tv for a couple of days. We even have parents who attempt to transfer a kid out of school during the last month in hopes that their new school won't notice the kid was failing and will pass them on. The sad thing is that sometimes it actually works. We only take our well behaved kids on field trips. If you can't behave in the classroom, I'm not taking you out in public. We get so many parents calling and complaining that it's not fair that their child can't go anywhere. For example we are taking 80 kids to Washington DC this week. The teachers that are going are paying for the trip by working at Jacob's Field. We chose the best of the best to go on the trip. I'm not taking anyone that I have to worry about acting crazy. I've had several parents call and ask why their child can't go and when I explain that they can't go because they've been in fights, cursed out a teacher, only come to school once a week, are failling etc. the standard response has been either I'm going to sue you or I'm going to the superintendant.
3. This last one I'm not sure how to put. We were taught that you respect adults because they are adults. For some reason over the past two years I've heard "You have to give respect to get respect" from some of my children. This had never come up before. Each time it's been said it has been in private conversations when I've pulled kids into the hallway to discuss their behavior. When I explain that their behavior in class was disrespectful, this is the response that I get. When I ask how I disrespected them the answer is always, "You told me to sit down" or "You told me to stop talking". Keep in mind, I didn't scream it at them or say it in a nasty way. I just simply was enforcing the rules of my class. Obviously someone taught them that they can do whatever they want and if someone tells you to stop they are disrespecting you. Of course these kids are the same ones whose parents will come up and curse me out because I told their child to stop talking. We have even had parents come up and assault other kids because they felt that child disrespected theirs.
Sorry this was so long. Once I got started, I just couldn't stop.

 

[Disney Doll]

Parents are what's wrong with kids today. They don't want to parent.

They want their kid to be their "best friend". I can always remember my mother saying to one of my friend's mother "What in the world would I want with a 10 year old friend?" when this other woman was going on and on about how here 5th grade daughter was her "best friend".

They don't want to squash their child's "voice" or "crush their spirit". Well, what you call "voice" and "spirit" I call spoiled brat.

They want their child to behave like a small adult, but don't want to put in the effort to raise the child.

They don't want their child to have to face any negative situations or consequences...everything is always someone else's fault.

They don't want their child to learn that life isn't always going to be fair and that they'd better get used to it.

They don't want to take the time to prepare the child for the path.

And I think the next couple of generations are going to suffer for it.

 

[Kath2003]

Parents are what's wrong with kids today. They don't want to parent.

I'm not a parent but I agree with this statement from the families I know. Having children is NOT something you do a "bonus" to your life - it is something you agree to do FULL TIME every single day for the rest of your life. I will not have children until I am prepared to make that committment and go without what I want for the needs of my family. And if I'm never able to make that committment, then I will never have children because it is not fair to do a half-assed job of it!

They want their kid to be their "best friend". I can always remember my mother saying to one of my friend's mother "What in the world would I want with a 10 year old friend?" when this other woman was going on and on about how here 5th grade daughter was her "best friend".

Lemme tell you, my Mum is my best friend. And I'll tell you why she is - because she earnt my respect over the eighteen years I lived at home with her. We knew exactly what the rules were, exactly where the lines were and yes, she was the meanest mommy in the world at times. But despite being reasonable strict, I never ever felt unloved or that I couldn't turn to my parents or play with them. I just knew what behaviour was appropriate and what was not.

Children need to learn skills which prepare them for adult life. Whilst this includes feeling like an important part of the family unit, being praised for achievements and being encouraged to develop your own opinions etc. it ALSO includes knowing when it is appropriate to do so, and to respect those with authority as well as your peers. The problem, as I see it, with many people of MY age, is that they saw themselves as "equals" within the family unit. Whilst I felt that I was equal in terms of I was as loved as any other member of the family, I never felt I had the same rights as my parents in terms of making decisions about the family group until I was much much older. I knew my parents would come down on me like a ton of bricks if ever I disrespected them in any way but I respected them enough that the idea of crossing them never entered my mind.

They don't want their child to learn that life isn't always going to be fair and that they'd better get used to it.

Exactly. I see this in a lot of the kids I babysit for. They cannot comprehend even the simple ideas of losing a game (because Mummy wouldn't want to hurt their spirit by letting them lose) or that older brother gets to go to bed half an hour later (because Lil Jimmy doesn't WANT to do that, so he doesn't have to). Encouraging good qualities in children is one thing but sheltering them from the negative aspects of the world means they get a big hard shock when they enter the real world.

Now I don't have children, I only babysit and I know how hard THAT is so I can't imagine doing it 24-7 (incidently, this is why I don't have kids right now!). But as I say, if I'ma do it, I'ma do it PROPERLY. If I have to work 20 hours a day at home and work to do it, fine. If I don't go on a vacation for the next twenty years, fine. But I will not sit back and let my children "raise themselves".

My Mum works in an infant school (in the UK, that's kids aged 4-7). They have something called a Nurture Group. It's for children who are behind, not just academically (which is an easier problem to solve) but socially. Whilst this classroom and their amazing teachers do WONDERS for these children and is a huge asset to the school, one has to wonder why there is a need for this type of class in the first place.

Some activities which go on in this classroom include sitting down and having a meal together - for children who do not understand that. Learning to use a knife and fork and make polite conversation at the dinner table should be something that a parent does, not a teacher. Children learn to tie their shoelaces and button up their shirts. They learn to brush their teeth, to make their beds. They take them to the shops so they learn how to behave in public, how to buy a simple item etc. They teach them to share and to play together; to wash their hands after they've been to the bathroom etc. These are things that a parent should teach their child but where the parent fails, the state now has to pick up the pieces.

I think that classroom is amazing and the staff there do an amazing job but the point is: they shouldn't HAVE to. If at five years old, my child didn't have the basic skills like holding a knife and fork, washing their hands when they've been to the bathroom etc. I would be extremely concerned! I'm not talking about mistakes that all children make, being forgetful etc. but genuine lack of social skills and common sense skills. It's really really sad.

 

[Goobergal99]

Parents are what's wrong with kids today. They don't want to parent.

They want their kid to be their "best friend". I can always remember my mother saying to one of my friend's mother "What in the world would I want with a 10 year old friend?" when this other woman was going on and on about how here 5th grade daughter was her "best friend".

They don't want to squash their child's "voice" or "crush their spirit". Well, what you call "voice" and "spirit" I call spoiled brat.

They want their child to behave like a small adult, but don't want to put in the effort to raise the child.

They don't want their child to have to face any negative situations or consequences...everything is always someone else's fault.

They don't want their child to learn that life isn't always going to be fair and that they'd better get used to it.

They don't want to take the time to prepare the child for the path.

And I think the next couple of generations are going to suffer for it.

My mom is my best friend and I hope one day DD will be mine as well

Tell me, why wouldn't you want that relationship with your child? Would you prefer to be a dictator and have a child that resents you later in life for it?

 

[Quinn222]

Parents are what's wrong with kids today. They don't want to parent.

They want their kid to be their "best friend". I can always remember my mother saying to one of my friend's mother "What in the world would I want with a 10 year old friend?" when this other woman was going on and on about how here 5th grade daughter was her "best friend".

OMG it makes my skin crawl when someone says that! Kids don't need you to be their best friend, they need you to be their parent.