OK, let's all fight about what's wrong with kids today.

[Caradana]

True, but it seems to me that it doesn't matter whether you have money or not. My point was that if a parent lets their kid get away with whatever they want they will probably stay that way. My cousin is a good example of that. My aunt and uncle never set any limits for her, let her do whatever she wanted, etc. and then are positively baffled when she doesn't take them seriously on the rare occasion they actually try to disipline her And it started from when she was a kid. They would let her run around restaurants, bothering other patrons, yell and scream as loudly as she pleased, throw things, etc. so she knew she could get away with it. Kids are smart. They try to test their boundaries and if you let them get away with it, they'll continue to do so. My cousin may have grown up in age (she's 17 now) but she's still a pain to be around

Great point about boundaries, but I'd disagree around the issue of money. Money changes EVERYTHING in the eyes of a 16-year-old in the middle of a half-hour profile on MTV.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Money changes EVERYTHING in the eyes of a 16-year-old in the middle of a half-hour profile on MTV.

You have a point there. I suppose money can certainly make a difference. And maybe those parents who are filthy rich and spoil their kids figure once the kid turns 18 they'll be able to afford to send them to a college far, far away where they won't have to deal with them anymore

 

[auntpolly]

I really don't think those parents are all that rich -- I mean, they are more foolish with money than anything else. I'll bet anything most of them are living way beyond their means -- another great lesson to teach the kids.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I really don't think those parents are all that rich -- I mean, they are more foolish with money than anything else. I'll bet anything most of them are living way beyond their means -- another great lesson to teach the kids.

Yeah the two who's dad's owned record companies didn't surprise me. But some of the others I wonder about.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

So true! Some people are shocked when I tell them that I started telling my kids, "No" when they were 6-7 months old. (you know when they start touching things that could be a danger to them). But, like you said, it lays the foundation. I think too many parents think that their kids will just eventually start to behave and listen all on their own, as they get older. Not true! Parents need to stop thinking of disciple as a bad thing. Kids need structure, kids need boundries. It's a parents job to provide these things. It's much easier to start early.

It seems that so many people don't understand the babies and children have minds like sponges. They start to understand and pick up on things very quickly.

For example: My older sister is deaf. When she had her first child, she was not around hearing people much and lived alone. Within a couple months, the baby stopped crying when at home. She had learned by then that her mother did not come when she started crying. But, when she was around me or oer grandparents, she would cry. She had figured out that we came when she cried when we were around.
Also, my sister started teaching my niece very early about sign language. Of course, she would use the signs for milk and other things. After only after about 6 months, she knew the sign for milk. As my niece got older, my sister would sit her down in front of the tv with Sesame Street. As they said the words/letters and showed the words/letters on the screen, my sister would show the sign for that word/letter. Thereby teaching her to spell, read and pronounce the words and know the signs for them.
My sisters middle child started even earlier. She recognized the sign for milk after about 3-4 months. And my sister's youngest child recognized the sign for milk at only 6 weeks old.

So it is never too early to start teaching children anything. Including how to behave.

I don't know if I am defending myself or anyone else or just giving a different side. Re: restaurant dining.

As another poster said, I also grew up eating out a lot. I was an only child, my parents had excess cash, and we went out to a family dinner every Sunday. Now, of course, we didn't start this until I was about 8 years old. Way back in the 60s and 70s, most middle class people really didn't dine out a lot. And if they did, they certainly weren't dragging their kids along. But, as the 70s wore on and my parents made more money, and dining out was gaining popularity, we went. Of course, I was perfectly behaved. It would never occur to me to act out. But then again, I *never* acted out anywhere. If you ask my mom, she will tell you that she really doesn't take credit for that. I was a very mild-mannered kid (and still am as an adult). I was quiet. Period. Born that way. My mom was always able to set me on a blanket and never had to worry about me.

Then, my kids came along. I guess they take after my husband!! He is a very ACTIVE person. Had ADHD as a child, controls it now as he is in a very physical job. But I digress. My first child, a girl, was a ball of energy. Always on the go. When we went to the mall, all the other babies were snoozing in the stroller. Not her--she was up and begging to get out. We did take her out to dinner. Fortunately she was quiet, but we could never go anywhere that took a long time. She didn't mis-behave, just very restless.

When my son came along, we tried to dine out a few times but he was just impossible. I guess many of you would call it "bad behavior." It certainly would appear that way. But it was basically just that he could not sit still. Believe me, it used to mortify me because I am so quiet. I read all the discipline books, did everything I could. But restaurant dining was not for him. I'll never forget one of our dinners at The Outback. He grabbed the wrapped utensils, whipped the knife out and started to throw it. It was just awful. So, for many, many years, we stopped dining out. Just too painful for us and I am KEENLY worried about other diners.

Now that the kids are 14 and 11, they are perfect angels (most of the time) and behave fine (and have since they were about 8 years old).

I guess my point is that not every parent who has a kid who can't behave in a restaurant is a bad parent or is lacking discipline. Some kids just do not do well dining out. It is extremely boring to them and painful to sit through without touching anything, or moving. Other kids are very calm (like myself).

Of course, there probably *are* some parents who don't discipline and this is the cause for it, but don't judge them all as bad parents. Of course, I do agree that if your kid can't tolerate it, you really should just stay home.

Yes. There are children who are just naturally hyperactive. And the parents should realize that this is how their child is and until they can teach the kids to calm down and how to act in certain places, they should stay home. Id the parents want to go out to a nice restaurant, get a babysitter! That's what they're for!

The point is, kids can be taught proper behavior for different places. The park or the backyard is for running and jumping and playing. A restaurant is the place for sitting still and eating in a polite manner.
I also take this problem at restaurants as a lack of being taught proper behavior at any dinner table. Including at home. Many families don't sit at a table and eat dinner together anymore. And those that do on occasion may not discipline their kids and teach them proper etiquette.

 

[Sleeping~Beauty]

I wasn't gonna bring this up but with all the people defending bad behaviour on the other thread, you've all got me curious how this one will go.

In the other thread, I don't think most of the posters were defending bad behavior, they were just responding to that thread's particular situation.

I agree that as teachers, it has become increasingly difficult in dealing with parents (not all of course). But just wanted to note that the other thread had a completely different issue than the issues being addressed here.

 

[Marseeya]

I can't believe the people haven't come out to say (as they inevitably do in these discussions) that my perfume bothers them, or the way I chew -- that adults can act just as bad. They are sooooooo missing the point. If an adult were standing on their chair or playing tag around my table, I'd think they should leave just the same.

Actually, this came up with DH and me last night. We went out to eat sans kids (who, I might add, I have always controlled in restaurants, including marching their butts out when they became disruptive), and before we were seated, we were next to a family with 4 very active little ones. DH and I were like, oh no, they're going to seat us with them!!! because we were at a hibachi restaurant. We breathed a huge sigh of relief when we were seated with all adults, only to be horrified when the four middle aged men next to us proceeded to behave like a bunch of halfwits. They were loud, drunk, and totally obnoxious.

Too bad their mommas weren't there to keep them in line.

 

[Marseeya]

In the other thread, I don't think most of the posters were defending bad behavior, they were just responding to that thread's particular situation.

I agree that as teachers, it has become increasingly difficult in dealing with parents (not all of course). But just wanted to note that the other thread had a completely different issue than the issues being addressed here.

That's true. I took a little flak in that thread, which I thought was hilarious considering I actually took my son OUT of school to homeschool him for his bad behavior.

I simply felt that the teacher in the other thread should have managed her class better and she could have prevented what happened with that child. Plus I get so sick of the generalization that unruly kids MUST have bad parents. That gets old.

 

[Quinn222]

How about some good news?
We were at Longhorn the other night (just me and my elderly uncle) and were seated near a booth that had a little boy in a high chair at the end. I was apprehensive but he was quiet. Well, that child was not two years old and was absolutley charming. Quiet except for some babbling, seated in his chair playing with something on his tray. Eating whatever mom and dad were giving him. They were there for a good long time and I was seriously impressed by how well this kid was behaving. Towards the end of the meal he put his arms out to get out of his high chair and his dad told him over and over, "Say 'please", "You have to say please first" etc. etc. and the child did say please (as best he could) and his dad took him out to sit on his lap.

Too bad they left before we did, I would have loved to compliment them on their child's excellent manners. Who knows, maybe next time he'll pitch a fit and start screaming but clearly they are making an effort and making it early.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Ok.Got it. Kids sometimes act up and parents choose not to go ballistic,sooo:

1.The kids of today are horrible little brats with no hope of becoming responsible grown-ups(except the children of those who know everything about parenting).

2.If your kid does act up and you don't jump up,apologize,do a pirouette,curtsy,and pay for everyone's meal you are a deplorable human being who doesn't deserve a spot on planet earth.

You don't have to go ballistic to disipline and teach proper behavior. I hate this type of attitude, like we can't disipline our child b/c it might hurt his feelings

 

[Goobergal99]

On the flip side of the coin, I can't stand adults who go to FAMILY friendly restauraunts and expect total peace and quiet. I mean give me a break, It's Fridays not the Ritz

 

[Tigger&Belle]

The funny thing is that growing up I so clearly remember my mother talking about "kids these days". Basically the same discussion we are having. Not about eating out, since as already mentioned we didn't do that much and the rare times we did it was a treat that we behaved for. But about things in general. She compared the kids to kids when she was growing up and thought that they were out of control (I'm talking 30-35 years ago she made these comments). And if I were to ask my older sister, I bet made the some comments when my sister was little. Of course her mom likely said the same thing and I bet our kids will make the same comments when they have children.

Back to the original point...none of this is an excuse for bad restaurant behavior. If I didn't let Jake ruin the dining experience for others there's no reason why any child should get away with it. Like I always say, he's been my true test of parenting.

 

[Christine]

One thing I want to point out that may change the way kids behave is that the darned restaurants have become so informal. They almost encourage bad behavior. I think that when I restaurant sets it standards to be "formal" then that type of behavior follows--especially in the mind of the parents.

For instance, our local TGIFriday's routinely hires a clown during the weekends. The clown comes through and makes animal balloons, plays jokes on the kids, etc. I know they do this so more people with kids will want to come to the restaurant. But it also encourages the kids to jump up out of their seats, run to the clown, and basically instead of feeling like they are at a restaurant where they need to have some sort of control, they now feel that they are at a "kids place" and it's okay to run around like a banshee. I think the parents falll into this mindset also. Even though I have two kids, once I saw that the clown was a regular, we stopped going because I couldn't stand the chaos and MY kids weren't getting out of the booth.

Our local Outback Steakouse also has an "informal" atmosphere. The waiters/waitresses are constantly "sitting" in my booth (which I hate) and the dining atmosphere is one of informality and jocularity and the music is always very loud. Probably to cover the screams of small children. I don't know--it just kind of breeds an environment of "fun" versus trying to create a nice atmosphere of dining.

I've noticed that many of the mediocre chain restaurants are like this now (line dancing by the waitstaff is another). I feel like it gives parents the permission to let their kids act like idiots--because they don't take the environment seriously.

I'm sure at WDW, the mentality is even worse when it comes to stuff like this. You've spent the last four meals at character buffets, then you go to the CA Grill and, hey, it's Disney right?

I don't agree with it but just trying to explain what might be going through the heads of some of these dumb parents.

 

[Goobergal99]

I have to admit kids behavior really doesn't get to me all that much. My DH and I have had to endure plenty of judgemental, condescending stares b/c we don't look old enough to drive (I hope I keep these genes into my 40's ) and here we are sitting in a nice restaurant with our DD (who is very well behaved BTW)

I try not to judge a book by it's cover, I don't think that a kid acting a little wacky in Disney World is anything to get upset about.

 

[auntpolly]

The funny thing is that growing up I so clearly remember my mother talking about "kids these days". Basically the same discussion we are having. Not about eating out, since as already mentioned we didn't do that much and the rare times we did it was a treat that we behaved for. But about things in general.

I don't really think kids are that different, and I really titled the OP incorrectly -- it's parents who have something wrong with them.

When I think of how life was in the 60s when I was growing up, it was just so different, everything. Many things about it were worse than they are today- this is just one of those things that is not. There is this weird new thing with parents who think that their kid can do no wrong and in fact, everything they do is precious and the sign of genius.When one little boy at the CA Grill was standing on his chair and singing, DD and I turned to look at what the commotion was and the mom gave us a beeming smile as if to say, "Isn't he adorable?" Well, no, we had another adjective in mind, as a matter of fact....

I saw kids stomping through flowerbeds continuously, while parents smiled admiringly. I saw kids lie down and take up 3 seats on the bus while senior citizens stood.

Granted there were lots of little kids that weren't doing these things -- plenty adorable kids, but I hold that there are an alarming amount out there that could rob a cast member at gun point and their parents would just gush about how precocious they were and excited to be at WDW.

 

[auntpolly]

I try not to judge a book by it's cover, I don't think that a kid acting a little wacky in Disney World is anything to get upset about.

OK, let me just ask -- so running amuck at the CA Grill is "just acting a little wacky"? I give slack to parents at 98% of the other WDW restaurants, but if we are at the really nice ones, I don't know, I feel I have a right to be upset.

 

[golfgal]

Kids aren't any different today then they were 100 years ago, what is different is what is expected of them. Growing up, I didn't know anyone that let their kids act like you see kids acting today, the spoiled I want everything, get everything, the world revolves around me attitude. If a kid misbehaved in school, the parents actually blamed the kid for misbehaving not the teacher for the problems (not that the teachers can't be the problems sometimes but it is almost always the kids). If you went out for dinner, you didn't run around the restaurant unless you want a spanking right there in the restaurant. Too many parents these days don't expect their kids to behave. They don't want to be the bad guy. I had one mom tell me that she refused to discipline her children because she worked all day and didn't want to be the bad guy when she came home--she can't figure out why her kids are in trouble at school all the time now either???

Kids are going to act up in public from time to time, the problem lies in what the parents do about it. If you are in a restaurant and your 2 year old is getting antsy and disturbing others, if you try to stop the behavior, great, most people will put up with that. If you don't even attempt to do anything while your little princess is running around the restaurant screaming like a banshee, people are going to get upset.

DH and I have always said our goal in parenting is that our kids behave in public.

 

[Goobergal99]

OK, let me just ask -- so running amuck at the CA Grill is "just acting a little wacky"? I give slack to parents at 98% of the other WDW restaurants, but if we are at the really nice ones, I don't know, I feel I have a right to be upset.

I am not saying that is appropriate, I just don't want to be judgemental. Personally I wouldn't take my DD there anyway b/c she just wouldn't be interested.

On the flip side, what about parents who act selfishly and drag their kids to fancy resturaunts in the 1st place? I mean truthfully me and DH have just about had it with buffet meals with a bazillion disney chracters but it's Disney and we are there primarily for DD's enjoyment. One day when we are older (and all of our friends are just starting to have kids ) and DD is all grown up, we will go and eat at the California grille

 

[auntpolly]

They don't want to be the bad guy. I had one mom tell me that she refused to discipline her children because she worked all day and didn't want to be the bad guy when she came home--she can't figure out why her kids are in trouble at school all the time now either???

It's amazing how many parents can't connect the dots. I've seen it all from diapers to college, with my friends and their kids. The ones who didn't discipline are the ones who are having the worst trouble now, plain and simple,, but they really act like they can't figure out what went wrong.

And what good would it do me to say, "Well, remember that time at McDonalds when your kid was smearing ice cream all over the slide and you said "If you don't stop, we're leaving", but he kept doing it and you didn't leave -- in fact, when the McD's employee yelled at your kid you got mad at the employee? Well, that -- in effect, is why your kid isn't coming in until 5:00 am and he smells like marijuana." (actual example!!)

Of course there are exceptions -- we know a couple that seemed to be doing all the right things and their kid is sitting in jail right now... but those cases are rare.

 

[auntpolly]

On the flip side, what about parents who act selfishly and drag their kids to fancy resturaunts in the 1st place?

Good point -- but the night I was there, the place was filled with kids who were having a great time. Just at my -- and the anniversary couple, the wedding party, and the foursome in their 20s on a special night out for sushi and martinis -- at all of our expense.