Ok, I'm really confused about this FP thing

[Rip]

Alright, I am reviving this recently deceased thread because I said I wanted to confirm this FP behavior. And you were all quite correct as I suspected. I only had a chance to try it twice. Once on EE and the other on Splash. Both this week. A good tip to keep in mind for the future. After 2 hours have passed you can get a FP for anything including the same ride.

But now I have a mystery. At least to me. On Tuesday we were on task and at the Splash FP machines at 8:10AM and got two different "Another FP Ticket will be available at" times. If someone told this to me I would not believe it so I took the photo below.

Notice the FP on the left follows the standard "40 minute rule" with a next FP availability of 8:50AM. But the one on the right says the next one is available at 8:10AM. To confirm this was valid we were already headed to BTMRR and I tried both entrance passes and I got one BTMRR FP at 8:11AM. The other pass gave the standard "wait until 8:50AM" message.

I got both of these within seconds of each other from the same FP machines, but someone must have been messing with the system somewhere to make this happen!

The one on the right also says "override" at the bottom.

 

[doconeill]

Alright, I am reviving this recently deceased thread because I said I wanted to confirm this FP behavior. And you were all quite correct as I suspected. I only had a chance to try it twice. Once on EE and the other on Splash. Both this week. A good tip to keep in mind for the future. After 2 hours have passed you can get a FP for anything including the same ride.

But now I have a mystery. At least to me. On Tuesday we were on task and at the Splash FP machines at 8:10AM and got two different "Another FP Ticket will be available at" times. If someone told this to me I would not believe it so I took the photo below.

Notice the FP on the left follows the standard "40 minute rule" with a next FP availability of 8:50AM. But the one on the right says the next one is available at 8:10AM. To confirm this was valid we were already headed to BTMRR and I tried both entrance passes and I got one BTMRR FP at 8:11AM. The other pass gave the standard "wait until 8:50AM" message.

I got both of these within seconds of each other from the same FP machines, but someone must have been messing with the system somewhere to make this happen!

Note that the second one does not have your ticket ID at the bottom, it says "OVERRIDE". That typically means it was obtained via the CM's override option, not via a ticket. If the CM was not involved, then something may have glitched in communications and it issued you a FP anyways. I wonder if you used the other ticket again if it would have given you another...

You said "same FP machines" - was it physically the same kiosk?

 

[Balt ravens fan]

Let's remember FP is a computer programmed system, therefore it will have bugs. There is NO computer system in the world that is 100% completely free of "anomolies" or bugs as we call them in the business.

Also software has continuous release cycles, so one month it may work like "X" and the next month it might work like "Y". What will give you even more headache is that it will be hard for us to keep up with the changes.

So, I would suggest being a "tester" of the FP system seems to be a futile mission, keep trying if you must but it will change. But being a "benefactor" or should I say "having fun" because of the wonderful FP system seems to be a great idea!

But if you want to keep testing it Hydro - by all means do so. I don't go often enough to test my tickets, I want to use them for the things I want to ride, but I do appreciate people like you do who do! But I am afraid we will never fully get our answers because of Bugs and constant new releases of software. So go with the flow.

 

[HydroGuy]

Note that the second one does not have your ticket ID at the bottom, it says "OVERRIDE". That typically means it was obtained via the CM's override option, not via a ticket. If the CM was not involved, then something may have glitched in communications and it issued you a FP anyways. I wonder if you used the other ticket again if it would have given you another...

You said "same FP machines" - was it physically the same kiosk?

Sorry, yes same kiosk a mere 10 seconds apart. As fast as one can put the entrance tickets in and get the FPs out. The first one came out with the 8:50 and the second with the 8:10.

Not sure if this has anything to do with it but Splash opened late that day due to some technical difficulties. They finally got going at 10:30 or 11. And had sound problems both times we rode.

 

[HydroGuy]

The one on the right also says "override" at the bottom.

Yep, I noticed that too. Not sure what override was involved as I was just getting my FPs like everyone else.

 

[waynesgirl]

I'm glad you mentioned this! We plan on gathering FPs all day and then using them in the late afternoon/evening when we're feeling less patient and the lines are at there peak. Great strategy

This has been hotly debated on other threads, so I will go ahead and say- that's not nice to do. It states very clearly to return between certain times- specifically for crowd control. Yes, some CM's have let people go ahead but I have seen them turn people away as well.

It is just like line hopping- if I have a FP and I have a return time of 7PM on a busy day, and someone else decides that they can ride whenever, and decide if their FP is for the time frame of 2 to 3 that it is okay to get in line whenever, then what's the point?

Just because some CM's let you do it does not make it right. Remember that during busy times some people aren't as nice as they would be during slower times. God forbid you tick off the mother that has planned and planned and you just decided that 7PM was the time to return on a 2PM FP.

Just saying- and please don't flame me. I don't care about the technical side of it or the "I have done it and I will continue to do it until they pry the FP from my clenched fingers" crowd. I do not feel the urge to get FP's for anything like TSM- that ride is absolutely not worth the wait time, even with a FP. But, it is nice to see it from someone else's viewpoint, especially when it involves people's feelings.

 

[HydroGuy]

This has been hotly debated on other threads, so I will go ahead and say- that's not nice to do. It states very clearly to return between certain times- specifically for crowd control. Yes, some CM's have let people go ahead but I have seen them turn people away as well.

It is just like line hopping- if I have a FP and I have a return time of 7PM on a busy day, and someone else decides that they can ride whenever, and decide if their FP is for the time frame of 2 to 3 that it is okay to get in line whenever, then what's the point?

Just because some CM's let you do it does not make it right. Remember that during busy times some people aren't as nice as they would be during slower times. God forbid you tick off the mother that has planned and planned and you just decided that 7PM was the time to return on a 2PM FP.

Just saying- and please don't flame me. I don't care about the technical side of it or the "I have done it and I will continue to do it until they pry the FP from my clenched fingers" crowd. I do not feel the urge to get FP's for anything like TSM- that ride is absolutely not worth the wait time, even with a FP. But, it is nice to see it from someone else's viewpoint, especially when it involves people's feelings.

Uh oh. Now you did it.

 

[waynesgirl]

Uh oh. Now you did it.

Yeah, sad isn't it? I'm usually the nice one, or the one who calls out the trolls. Probably should've kept my giblet shut (my internet giblet, that is). Guess I should grab my popcorn and sit back for all the flames I'm about to get.

 

[doconeill]

Well, it's your opinion that it is bad, nothing more.

If WDW felt it was bad, then they wouldn't make it policy/procedure/mantra/whatever to accept them. Which they do. It's not "some CMs". Ask all of them if you wish. Even the executives have said it. WDW's opinion is the only one that really counts.

Not flaming, just facts.

No one says you HAVE to use them late. Continue to use them as you feel is right.

'nuff said.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

This has been hotly debated on other threads, so I will go ahead and say- that's not nice to do. It states very clearly to return between certain times- specifically for crowd control. Yes, some CM's have let people go ahead but I have seen them turn people away as well.

At this point, I don't think there has been any reported instance of CM's preventing people from returning after the return window for several years.

And, from the standpoint of the "virtual line", it doesn't matter:

-------------------

Let's assume for a moment the FastPass algorithm is something like this:

1. The current time is ##:##
2. Find the wait time for the ride.
3. Find how many FastPasses I have already given out today
4. Take current time, add current wait time, plus some number of minutes based on number of FastPasses already handed out. Round up to the nearest 5 minute interval.
5. Print ticket with that start time.

Assuming this is how it works, the FastPass system makes no effort to determine possible future wait times based on the current wait time and time of day. The system therefore, is basically telling you "if FastPasses didn't exist, and everyone that got a FastPass instead would have gotten in line ahead of you, the time in which you would be able to ride would be ((INSERT START TIME OF WINDOW))".

Since the FastPass system works like a virtual line, by going later in the day, what you are doing is basically let real people ahead of you in the virtual line you are waiting in. Since going later in the day than your alloted time, it does not affect the people ahead of you in the virtual line.

The only thing you possibly could be doing is giving that Mom with the 7PM return time 30 more seconds of waiting in line. But somebody who returned for their FastPass between the 1 and 2PM got on the ride 30 seconds earlier since you didn't show up then.

 

[bwilcox]

This has been hotly debated on other threads, so I will go ahead and say- that's not nice to do. It states very clearly to return between certain times- specifically for crowd control. Yes, some CM's have let people go ahead but I have seen them turn people away as well.

It is just like line hopping- if I have a FP and I have a return time of 7PM on a busy day, and someone else decides that they can ride whenever, and decide if their FP is for the time frame of 2 to 3 that it is okay to get in line whenever, then what's the point?

Just because some CM's let you do it does not make it right. Remember that during busy times some people aren't as nice as they would be during slower times. God forbid you tick off the mother that has planned and planned and you just decided that 7PM was the time to return on a 2PM FP.

Just saying- and please don't flame me. I don't care about the technical side of it or the "I have done it and I will continue to do it until they pry the FP from my clenched fingers" crowd. I do not feel the urge to get FP's for anything like TSM- that ride is absolutely not worth the wait time, even with a FP. But, it is nice to see it from someone else's viewpoint, especially when it involves people's feelings.

My sister was a CM for the college program at Fantasyland a few years ago. She said they were told during training to accept late FPs. That has also been confirmed by other CMs on these baords. It is not just "a few" CMs-they are TRAINED to accept late FPs. Disney gets to make their own rules. If they allow late FPs, then what gives you the right to say it is wrong?

 

[vicki_c]

Right - when CMs stop standing in the line yelling out reminders to the entire line that you can use your FPs up until the park closes, or start refusing late FPs as a matter of their policy & training, then I'll consider rethinking my strategy.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but that's your own prerogative to feel that way. Doesn't seem as bad to me as taking liquor into the park.

 

[mom2rtk]

And to think .............. this thread was almost dead and buried!



Anyone think TenderDonkey will show up???

 

[jgates]

We had another thread ?last week where this was extensively being argued. But in the subject of this thread.............

You have probably figured this out by now anyway, but if you do have a FP - when your window opens up you would be MORE practical in being at a nearby fast pass machine (or same ride) so you can get another FP BEFORE you go on the ride. Otherwise, depending on ride & current FP queue & the ride duration, you can be losing up to 30 minutes on the NEXT FP's time.

Example: If you have a FP for ToT for 10:05 AM, then walk to the RnR FP machine at 10:05 & grab a FP for there for (example) 12:15. THEN go on ToT AFTER you have the new FP. If you wait until you have completed the entire line & queue for ToT, the new FP time at RnR may now be 12:40 & you lose that time. It's a VERY obvious move if you like the rides that are close to you that provide add'l FP's, but so often I see a MASS of bodies waiting for that next 5 minute window to open up. Obviously they are doing their ride before they go get new FP's - thus wasting time in their day. Even if the queue is a little ways away, it can still save you time in the long run. Example - you are at Caseys & your Splash FP comes up for 1:00 - now you can get another one. You want Space Mountain - instead of going to Splash first - head to Space & grab that pass -you are still in your time window (to avoid the previous argument) & yet you have now brought your Space FP probably 20 minutes closer in time by grabbing it first before you headed to Splash. And if you are an 'E' type rider, you probably wouldn't be doing a lot of 'A' or 'B' tickets during that time you spent walking over there anyway.

Does that make sense? We do it often on BTMRR & Splash, and ToT & RnR. If DS is along with we do it for Space as we can send him with the tickets & the rest of us can shop until he gets back to Splash/BTMRR area.

 

[Robo]

Anyone think TenderDonkey will show up???

Under what user name?

 

[waynesgirl]

Under what user name?

Now, back to the responses...

Again, don't care. BUT....for all of you posters talking about hurt feelings and making words all CAPS, like TRAINED, I have news for you. I have personally seen it done, and it was also done to me at Expedition Everest in 2009. Maybe not all CMs have been there for the class.

It doesn't hurt my feelings any more than those of you on here, trying to be snide with your comments, would be upset if I had a flash on my camera and took a pic in your face or if another person talked during the show or anyone else kept using profanity in line in front of your kids or pushed by you in line for TSM standby. So what if it is in writing- it doesn't mean you have to follow it. As far as wait times go- Spring Break is a 10 nearly every day- if 200people have a FP with a return time of 2 to 3, and all 200 decide to return at 7:30 so they can go to F!- you have now added 200 people to a line of 200, making it 400. It does change the ride time for those with the correct time by over 200 additional people- logic doesn't fly out the window when simple mathmatics come into play.

Again, Don't Care. I go at least twice a year and don't feel the need to tell people how to deliberately make someone else's potential only vacation less enjoyable. At least, that just an opinion. I could circumvent the rules, the unwritten rules, or just flat out not care about what I read on these boards. But hey, common courtesy is out the window in this day and age.

Nobody cares that anything that is said on these boards is an opinion when it counters their own. That's what makes this such great entertainment for me at work...

 

[PrincessTiffany]

Now, back to the responses...

Again, don't care. BUT....for all of you posters talking about hurt feelings and making words all CAPS, like TRAINED, I have news for you. I have personally seen it done, and it was also done to me at Expedition Everest in 2009. Maybe not all CMs have been there for the class.

It doesn't hurt my feelings any more than those of you on here, trying to be snide with your comments, would be upset if I had a flash on my camera and took a pic in your face or if another person talked during the show or anyone else kept using profanity in line in front of your kids or pushed by you in line for TSM standby. So what if it is in writing- it doesn't mean you have to follow it. As far as wait times go- Spring Break is a 10 nearly every day- if 200people have a FP with a return time of 2 to 3, and all 200 decide to return at 7:30 so they can go to F!- you have now added 200 people to a line of 200, making it 400. It does change the ride time for those with the correct time by over 200 additional people- logic doesn't fly out the window when simple mathmatics come into play.

Again, Don't Care. I go at least twice a year and don't feel the need to tell people how to deliberately make someone else's potential only vacation less enjoyable. At least, that just an opinion. I could circumvent the rules, the unwritten rules, or just flat out not care about what I read on these boards. But hey, common courtesy is out the window in this day and age.

Nobody cares that anything that is said on these boards is an opinion when it counters their own. That's what makes this such great entertainment for me at work...

Sorry, but you are just simply wrong on this issue. It's not an opinion nor bad manners, bad taste or against the "rules." It's how the Fastpass was set up and it does not "cheat" anyone out of anything.

Originally Posted by fellow Diser, Dawgdad:

WOW! This just always seems to rear it's ugly head. Now we have people wanting the "rules" enforced. Where do I start??? I always try to respond to these posts because I do feel like I have some worthwhile info that comes from actual Disney management (see below). First of all, if you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. You see, when I use my FP does not affect 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who choose to ride a certain ride. This is not a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

My cousin, Scott Bowden works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing (how would you like that on your business card?) We have spoken so many times on this subject that many times when I call him, the first thing he says is "Wassup, Fastpasses don't expire."

Remember, FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and people can not spend their money in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. When you use it does not affect the flow of the ride or the dynamics of the wait for ANYONE else. Now, there is one more thing. When we adopted our child from China 2 years ago, one of the other fathers in our travel group works for the company in Buffalo that (among other things) worked with Disney on the design and implementation of the fastpass. Trust me when I say that the idea was not to reduce your wait time, but to reduce your "non-buying" time in the parks. It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone. Yes, you could argue that if everyone held their fastpass for 1 hour then flooded the ride, there may be some fluctuations in wait times, but that is simply not realistic. Additionally, if everyone did that, many more standby riders than normal would get to ride earlier. Remember, how or when you use your FP does not affect the number of people in the park or how many people ride the ride.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire. If a castmember tells you otherwise, politely ask them to speak with a supervisor - you are not asking for a favor, you are asking for something that is specifically allowed under the fastpass.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire until park close of the day it was issued. [End Quote]


Also, in case I haven't posted enough fastpass jargin for ya'll yet, I also have verbage from the original Fastpass patent if anyone wants me to post it.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Sorry, but you are just simply wrong on this issue. It's not an opinion nor bad manners, bad taste or against the "rules." It's how the Fastpass was set up and it does not "cheat" anyone out of anything.

Originally Posted by fellow Diser, Dawgdad:

WOW! This just always seems to rear it's ugly head. Now we have people wanting the "rules" enforced. Where do I start??? I always try to respond to these posts because I do feel like I have some worthwhile info that comes from actual Disney management (see below). First of all, if you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. You see, when I use my FP does not affect 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who choose to ride a certain ride. This is not a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

My cousin, Scott Bowden works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing (how would you like that on your business card?) We have spoken so many times on this subject that many times when I call him, the first thing he says is "Wassup, Fastpasses don't expire."

Remember, FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and people can not spend their money in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. When you use it does not affect the flow of the ride or the dynamics of the wait for ANYONE else. Now, there is one more thing. When we adopted our child from China 2 years ago, one of the other fathers in our travel group works for the company in Buffalo that (among other things) worked with Disney on the design and implementation of the fastpass. Trust me when I say that the idea was not to reduce your wait time, but to reduce your "non-buying" time in the parks. It is not an accident that the Fastpass does not specifically prohibit late arrivals. In the original patent for the fastpass (and machine), there is a specific statement that details this "late" use. It is not only OK, it has zero bearing on the flow of the park or the wait times for anyone. Yes, you could argue that if everyone held their fastpass for 1 hour then flooded the ride, there may be some fluctuations in wait times, but that is simply not realistic. Additionally, if everyone did that, many more standby riders than normal would get to ride earlier. Remember, how or when you use your FP does not affect the number of people in the park or how many people ride the ride.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire. If a castmember tells you otherwise, politely ask them to speak with a supervisor - you are not asking for a favor, you are asking for something that is specifically allowed under the fastpass.

Fastpasses DO NOT expire until park close of the day it was issued. [End Quote]


Also, in case I haven't posted enough fastpass jargin for ya'll yet, I also have verbage from the original Fastpass patent if anyone wants me to post it.

The bold part is the point the poster is making, so really she isn't wrong. Your own source says you could argue that point, but dismisses it as unrealistic....and THAT is an opinion. just sayin.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

The bold part is the point the poster is making, so really she isn't wrong. Your own source says you could argue that point, but dismisses it as unrealistic....and THAT is an opinion. just sayin.

Anyone can argue any point, realistic or not, but the point is, Fastpass is DESIGNED to be used late for a reason. The other poster is wrong in her assumption, thinking and opinion.

 

[cajunbaby1]

OMG!! who knew a small piece of paper would cause such controversy