OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[luvsJack]

It’s not my original thought. It’s often said that New Orleans is not a typical southern city although it’s in the south. I can understand where that comes from since I have grown up here, but lived in Baton Rouge for several years. They are vastly different although they're both in the south, in the same state & only 60 miles apart.

New Orleans is vastly different than most of the country let alone the south. Parts of it are very much southern. Parts not so much. But it has always been that way. They haven't "evolved" more than Baton Rouge. New Orleans is a product of so many people from so many different places. A lot of French. And the whole Cajun aspect. But they have the same history as the rest of the south as being part of the southern states.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

But when the statue was funded and put up by a a private organization of racists in the early 1900's, is it, really?

How about the Jefferson Davis monument in Jacksonville, that bears this quote:

"Let none of the survivors of these men offer in their behalf the penitential plea, 'They believed they were right.' Be it ours to transmit to posterity our unequivocal confidence in the righteousness of the cause for which these men died."

Are we learning from our history there? If so, what? Shouldn't we actually be saying 'They believed they were right', which is what Jefferson was arguing against?

 

[luvsJack]

How about the Jefferson Davis monument in Jacksonville, that bears this quoate:

"Let none of the survivors of these men offer in their behalf the penitential plea, 'They believed they were right.' Be it ours to transmit to posterity our unequivocal confidence in the righteousness of the cause for which these men died."

Are we learning from our history there? If so, what? Shouldn't we actually be saying 'They believed they were right', which is what Jefferson was arguing against?

You know, its entirely possible to change some things, remove some things and move other things with out just getting rid of everything.

And here is the thing, how much of history do people really know when their reaction is to take down any statue of any confederate officer but leave up Union officers who also owned slaves? Is that not a bit hypocritical?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

You know, its entirely possible to change some things, remove some things and move other things with out just getting rid of everything.

Where did I say we should?

 

[LSUmiss]

New Orleans is vastly different than most of the country let alone the south. Parts of it are very much southern. Parts not so much. But it has always been that way. They haven't "evolved" more than Baton Rouge. New Orleans is a product of so many people from so many different places. A lot of French. And the whole Cajun aspect. But they have the same history as the rest of the south as being part of the southern states.

Having lived in both places, I disagree about NOLA vs BR. NOLA has always been much more diverse which I think contributes to it’s evolution...French, Spanish, and African (also Italian & Irish). For goodness sake, BR was still trying to integrate schools when I first moved there in 1997. Nola’s history is considered more creole (black, French, Spanish) than Cajun. Cajun is more southwest Louisiana & bayou areas along the coast. Cajun is mostly played up for the tourist aspect.

I do agree that it’s different than most places. That’s my point. It’s not a southern city. It’s just located in the south.

 

[Kaleidodad]

But when the statue was funded and put up by a a private organization of racists in the early 1900's, is it, really?

Should we be keeping up monuments placed by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, who, at the at time, believed in the romanticized Lost Cause narrative? And supported the KKK?

As someone said before, Germany doesn't want to erase all of its history (although swastikas are illegal). But it doesn't romanticize the Third Reich. It uses its history as a warning.

The Kate Smith statue was not put up by "racists." On a related note, though, I spend a lot of time near a cemetery for Confederate officers (in Ohio), which includes a large statue erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy, and I would be quite dismayed if it were to be removed for any of the reasons people are putting forth here.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

You know, its entirely possible to change some things, remove some things and move other things with out just getting rid of everything.

I think it would be kind of entertaining to leave monuments but add plaques to each monument explaining who put it up when, and add some quotes from speeches made during the unveiling. For context.

Like the "Slient Sam" statue that was erected at the University of North Carolina in 1913. Instead of protesters tearing it down, they should have added a plaque with this quote from Julian Carr, who said this at the unveiling of the statue:

The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South—When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States—Praise God.

I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

The Kate Smith statue was not put up by "racists."

Oh, wow, right. I'm on a totally different topic now. I kinda forgot where we started with this, honestly.

 

[luvsJack]

Having lived in both places, I disagree about NOLA vs BR. NOLA has always been much more diverse which I think contributes to it’s evolution...French, Spanish, and African (also Italian & Irish). For goodness sake, BR was still trying to integrate schools when I first moved there in 1997. Nola’s history is considered more creole (black, French, Spanish) than Cajun. Cajun is more southwest Louisiana & bayou areas along the coast. Cajun is mostly played up for the tourist aspect.

I do agree that it’s different than most places. That’s my point. It’s not a southern city. It’s just located in the south.

But yet parts of the city is very much southern. That is my point. Much of its history is also the history of the rest of the south.

https://www.nola.com/education/2017/04/school_segregation_new_orleans.html

I wouldn't look to far down at Baton Rouge.

 

[LSUmiss]

But yet parts of the city is very much southern. That is my point. Much of its history is also the history of the rest of the south.

https://www.nola.com/education/2017/04/school_segregation_new_orleans.html

I wouldn't look to far down at Baton Rouge.

Look, I’m not saying things are perfect here. But IMO it is more progressive (like Atlanta) than other more typical southern cities. I’m not sure why you insist on trying to convince me otherwise of what I have lived & observed. I’ve know ppl who moved to BR BECAUSE things were more typical & they don’t like the diversity of NOLA. I’m not comparing your area to here. I have no idea where you even are. My opinion is based on 2 places that I have actually lived & worked.

As far as the article you sent, I would argue that has much more to do with socioeconomic status in this area rather than race. Most catholic schools is this area are very diverse. I attended one. In fact it was probably 60/40 where white/non-Hispanic was in the minority. The education system in this area is still a very unfortunate situation b/c the only kids who attend public schools are those who have no choice (for the most part). I’m only using BR as example b/c I lived there too. In BR, new cities were formed (or wanted to be) so they could avoid having to bus kids into their schools from less desirable parts of the city. I haven’t kept up with local stuff there since we have been back in NOLA for the last 8 years, but it was still going on when we left.

 

[BLAZEY]

You make some very good points. As I said before, I think most would have to be looked at and dealt with individually. And certainly NEVER getting rid of "Gone With the Wind". It may not be an accurate representation of slavery at the time, but it certainly doesn't make it look pretty. Me personally, I am in favor of getting rid of the statues that are of people connected to slavery. The point of a statue is to honor someone, those people should not be honored. (My opinion )

Then are you also of the opinion that EVERY church and religious monument be removed as well? For churches/religions are equally if not more guilty in racism ,abuse and mass murder the world over. A few songs pales in comparison.

 

[LSUmiss]

Then are you also of the opinion that EVERY church and religious monument be removed as well? For churches/religions are equally if not more guilty in racism ,abuse and mass murder the world over. A few songs pales in comparison.

Most religious statues are not prominent in public locations. I don’t care who ppl want to pay homage to in their own personal religion. They can fight that out amongst themselves.

 

[Hikergirl]

Better change the name of Pennsylvania while we are at it.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I think that’s the issue in a nutshell (for me). To say anyone is “too sensitive” about anything related to this type of issue is dismissive. If you have not lived on the other end of it, how dare anyone tell anyone how sensitive they should be.

Kind of funny how we're all too sensitive, but we're not the ones bringing these things up all the time. It's the same people claiming everyone else is too sensitive that are always bringing these things up and ranting about them.

 

[sam_gordon]

Kind of funny how we're all too sensitive, but we're not the ones bringing these things up all the time. It's the same people claiming everyone else is too sensitive that are always bringing these things up and ranting about them.

Since I started this thread, can you please find another thread where I've done the same?

 

[Hikergirl]

Kind of funny how we're all too sensitive, but we're not the ones bringing these things up all the time. It's the same people claiming everyone else is too sensitive that are always bringing these things up and ranting about them.

No not really. We are discussing current events and in this day and age current events always seem to include someone offended by a song, or a name, or a statue from the past and it being removed or erased so that those offended never have to see anything that hurts their feelings.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Some facts about Kate Smith from Wiki that I thought were interesting.

"Smith's role was to be the butt of Bert Lahr's often cruel jibes about her girth. She said later that she often wept with humiliation in her dressing room after the show."

"Smith "stirred patriotic fervor" during World War II[9] and contributed to selling over $600 million (equivalent to $10.2 billion in 2018) of war bonds during a series of marathon broadcasts. No other show-business star came near her as revenue producer of War Bonds to finance the United States' war effort.[10]"

"On October 26, 1982, Smith received the Presidential Medal of Freedom, America's highest civilian honor"

"Smith also starred in the weekly The Kate Smith Evening Hour which included a rare American TV appearance by Josephine Baker" (Josephine Baker https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Baker )

Besides the aforementioned songs

[In the late 1920's, as an early 20-something, early in her career] "Smith went into the road company of Vincent Youmans' Hit the Deck, where she won acclaim singing "Hallelujah!" as a mammy in blackface.[3] Back in New York City, she took the company lead in George White's Flying High, which opened at the Apollo Theater on March 3, 1930, and ran for 122 performances."

She never married nor had children.

 

[LSUmiss]

No not really. We are discussing current events and in this day and age current events always seem to include someone offended by a song, or a name, or a statue from the past and it being removed or erased so that those offended never have to see anything that hurts their feelings.

“Hurts their feelings”...how dismissive. I guess Jewish ppl are offended by the use of swastika b/c it “hurts their feelings”. So what is the alternative? Do we just do & say what we want no matter who we insult, injure, or offend? Imo, a civilized society should strive to be better than that & really LISTEN & understand why the said person feels offended.

 

[luvsJack]

Look, I’m not saying things are perfect here. But IMO it is more progressive (like Atlanta) than other more typical southern cities. I’m not sure why you insist on trying to convince me otherwise of what I have lived & observed. I’ve know ppl who moved to BR BECAUSE things were more typical & they don’t like the diversity of NOLA. I’m not comparing your area to here. I have no idea where you even are. My opinion is based on 2 places that I have actually lived & worked.

As far as the article you sent, I would argue that has much more to do with socioeconomic status in this area rather than race. Most catholic schools is this area are very diverse. I attended one. In fact it was probably 60/40 where white/non-Hispanic was in the minority. The education system in this area is still a very unfortunate situation b/c the only kids who attend public schools are those who have no choice (for the most part). I’m only using BR as example b/c I lived there too. In BR, new cities were formed (or wanted to be) so they could avoid having to bus kids into their schools from less desirable parts of the city. I haven’t kept up with local stuff there since we have been back in NOLA for the last 8 years, but it was still going on when we left.

I know you aren’t comparing New Orleans to where I am. And look, I love New Orleans. I am just pointing out that removing satutues doesn’t make NOLA more progressive or have fewer racial issues or anything else than other parts of the south.

I don’t particularly care one way or the other about the statutes, I am just curious what the next thing will be that is removed.

 

[amberpi]

The Kate Smith statue was not put up by "racists." On a related note, though, I spend a lot of time near a cemetery for Confederate officers (in Ohio), which includes a large statue erected by the Daughters of the Confederacy, and I would be quite dismayed if it were to be removed for any of the reasons people are putting forth here.

I think that we could argue if those folks were racists. I certainly would.