OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[DeniseJH]

What??

Was part of my post. You asked "Doesn't one show their beliefs through their actions?" I had said in my post that "When you've owned up to them (beliefs) and shown that you realize those beliefs were wrong." To me that does include "their actions". Does that explain?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Was part of my post. You asked "Doesn't one show their beliefs through their actions?" I had said in my post that "When you've owned up to them (beliefs) and shown that you realize those beliefs were wrong." To me that does include "their actions". Does that explain?

No, I am not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you looking for some sort of proclamation? Why not just be nice and respectful to people?

 

[DeniseJH]

No, I am not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you looking for some sort of proclamation? Why not just be nice and respectful to people?

It was in reference to another poster asking if everyone had to publicly apologize for past beliefs. My response, as I said, was in regards to public figures, i.e. Kate Smith, who have been found to have racist pasts. Obviously she can't do this now, but could have in the years before her death. Was she nice and respectful to people? I don't know, could be. But that doesn't mean she wasn't racist. In less I know otherwise I will never give a racist the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ford family]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored

The acceptable term for a person of color at the time of your grandparents (like my own born in 1918 and 1920) was colored. That's why it was still used until most recently by older generations and I can't fault them for that as new terminology does take time to work through the populace.

If using the term "coloured" in this context is such an unacceptable act why is the NAACP still called the NAACP?

ford family

 

[LovesTimone]

Overly sensitive... is putting it mildly... people look for some way to be offended, they dig and dig until they find something to be offended by, or some slight that may or may not have occurred, you can not change what happened 200 years ago or 100 years ago or 80 years ago or 10 year even last year... move on people to making today better....today and tomorrow and the next day should be the focus...

Come on Folks... stopping looking back and pointing fingers.... Look back and learn from it and keep moving forward... to make today better... there is nothing that we can do about the past, and that's were it should stay in the past... not that we should forget to past and the mistake that where made and we need to learn from them.. Quit dredging them up over and over its like beating a dead horse what good is it really doing? ... It really does more harm than good, it keep people at odds with each other, and only continues that type of thinking... it creates more fighting, and harsh feelings...Instead of using that energy and time for finger pointing why not use it to the betterment of everyone's future...

We only have today and tomorrow is not promised... so look forward to the future for our kids, grandkids and all the kids to come...

Look at a playground... there are children of all colors, family back grounds, religious belief, they all play together everyday, if there is a problem normally they work it out, and going on playing... If we all looked at the world through the eyes of the children... the world would be a better place...

 

[sam_gordon]

It was in reference to another poster asking if everyone had to publicly apologize for past beliefs. My response, as I said, was in regards to public figures, i.e. Kate Smith, who have been found to have racist pasts. Obviously she can't do this now, but could have in the years before her death. Was she nice and respectful to people? I don't know, could be. But that doesn't mean she wasn't racist. In less I know otherwise I will never give a racist the benefit of the doubt.

I still disagree that her singing those songs automatically makes her a racist. No different than someone using the term "colored" back then made them a racist.

I also don't remember you commenting when others pointed out a black man also sang those songs nor whether the Washington and Jefferson memorials should come down. Wouldn't owning slaves make you a racist? More so than singing a couple songs? So why should their memorials stand?

 

[PollyannaMom]

Again, to me, what's really important is how we actually treat people.

Exactly!

Look at a playground... there are children of all colors, family back grounds, religious belief, they all play together everyday, if there is a problem normally they work it out, and going on playing...

It is nice to see.

 

[DeniseJH]

I still disagree that her singing those songs automatically makes her a racist. No different than someone using the term "colored" back then made them a racist.

I also don't remember you commenting when others pointed out a black man also sang those songs nor whether the Washington and Jefferson memorials should come down. Wouldn't owning slaves make you a racist? More so than singing a couple songs? So why should their memorials stand?

And you are entitled to your opinion.

As far as the fact that Paul Robeson sang it as well? I think of it this way: black people can say the "N" word, whites can't. If he wanted to sing that song, for whatever reason, that was up to him.

And I did comment on a post - one of yours, I think, where you said that if we had to get rid of Kate Smith's version of God Bless America, what about the memorials , monuments, whatever. My reply was that the song was a good start. If the monuments come down, so be it. It wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

[Southernmiss]

If using the term "coloured" in this context is such an unacceptable act why is the NAACP still called the NAACP?

ford family

From the article I cited

In the 21st century, "colored" is generally regarded as an offensive term.[6][15] The term lives on in the name of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, generally called the NAACP.[6] In 2008, its communications director Carla Sims said "the term 'colored' is not derogatory, [the NAACP] chose the word 'colored' because it was the most positive description commonly used [in 1909, when the association was founded]. It's outdated and antiquated but not offensive."[16]

In contemporary English today the term "people of colour" became widespread since 2010 and is considered more acceptable than coloured and is much more frequently used in everyday conversation.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

How many songs is it?
I mean there are countless artist that recorded those songs what about Bing Crosby's Shine which song is also in Casablanca. Should we tear down everything related to them as well.

 

[Suger Mag]

i am fine with not stagnating in the past. Move on, use a different recording, no big deal. There is no shortage of amazing singers who could be used to record the song, people who actually are alive now and without such an unsavory past... why can't we move forward, grow and evolve as a society instead of swimming in proverbial circles and complaining about change?

As for changing out statues, well there are many amazing people who deserve statues, past, present and in the future, if we never swap out a statue every now and then to reflect our changing society, then either we can erect no more new statues or eventually we will look like Medusa's lair or the Terra Cotta Army... statues, statues everywhere

 

[Klayfish]

"So at what point do our former beliefs no longer matter to what is going on today?"

If you are/were a racist: when you've shown reform. When you've owned up to them and shown that you realize those beliefs were wrong. If you are in the public eye, then yes - the apology needs to be public. Otherwise it's between you and your family, friends, etc.. Again, I'm speaking about racism. Every other "bad thing"? Depends on the thing.
Also, not everyone changes.

You seem very clear in your conviction that you want to judge historical figures by your personal viewpoints, using 2019 societal norms. That's perfectly fine if that's what suits you. Just understand that not everyone agrees with you. History is just that...history. Kate Smith lived in a VERY different world, one in which none of us were a part. George Washington lived in a world which none of us could even fathom. If you want to judge them harshly for what you feel should have been the societal norms all those years ago, that's your decision. By those standards, we should judge many older Disney movies harshly. Heck, I should judge Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, and the Three Stooges harshly because of content in some of their shows. Sorry, those were my childhood heroes, I won't taint my view of them.

 

[L&Lfan]

How many songs is it?
I mean there are countless artist that recorded those songs what about Bing Crosby's Shine which song is also in Casablanca. Should we tear down everything related to them as well.

In 1937 the legendary Judy Garland recorded “All God’s Chillun Got Rhythm” and in 1941 she donned blackface for a minstrel show sequence in “Babes On Broadway “. Should we now ban “The Wizard Of Oz” and “Meet Me In St Louis”?

 

[DeniseJH]

You seem very clear in your conviction that you want to judge historical figures by your personal viewpoints, using 2019 societal norms. That's perfectly fine if that's what suits you. Just understand that not everyone agrees with you. History is just that...history. Kate Smith lived in a VERY different world, one in which none of us were a part. George Washington lived in a world which none of us could even fathom. If you want to judge them harshly for what you feel should have been the societal norms all those years ago, that's your decision. By those standards, we should judge many older Disney movies harshly. Heck, I should judge Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, and the Three Stooges harshly because of content in some of their shows. Sorry, those were my childhood heroes, I won't taint my view of them.

I'll explain it again - there is a difference between societal norms and what is morally acceptable. What I'm saying is that racism was not morally acceptable, or accepted BACK THEN. I don't have to have lived in that era to know that people knew better. If you truly believe that all those who were racist didn't know that they were wrong, and that that was the majority of the people in this country - I'm going to say that you are wrong. That IS what I believe. I'm well aware that others here disagree - that doesn't make them right. And yes, if someone was a racist- I will judge them. There is no excuse, there is no acceptable reason. (And they don't show a lot of those cartoons anymore for the exact same reason.)

 

[Klayfish]

I'm well aware that others here disagree - that doesn't make them right.

And yes, if someone was a racist- I will judge them.

And your opinion doesn't make you right.

Yes, you've made it crystal clear that you intend to judge through your own lens. No need to explain it again, you've done it many times.

 

[DeniseJH]

And your opinion doesn't make you right.

Yes, you've made it crystal clear that you intend to judge through your own lens. No need to explain it again, you've done it many times.

You don't know what it was like back then either, so your opinion is based through YOUR own lens. Do you believe everyone thought that racism was ok?

And I've always stated that it is my opinion. And I've included many times that others are entitled to their own.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'll explain it again - there is a difference between societal norms and what is morally acceptable. What I'm saying is that racism was not morally acceptable, or accepted BACK THEN. I don't have to have lived in that era to know that people knew better. If you truly believe that all those who were racist didn't know that they were wrong, and that that was the majority of the people in this country - I'm going to say that you are wrong. That IS what I believe. I'm well aware that others here disagree - that doesn't make them right. And yes, if someone was a racist- I will judge them. There is no excuse, there is no acceptable reason. (And they don't show a lot of those cartoons anymore for the exact same reason.)

Wow, can I ask your educational background? I assume you have years of research to back up an opinion that isn’t shared by most?

 

[DeniseJH]

Wow, can I ask your educational background? I assume you have years of research to back up an opinion that isn’t shared by most?

You mean the opinion that is shared by you and a dozen or so people on this board? I don't need research to know that there were people who realized that racism was wrong. Is that something that really needs to be defended?

 

[mjkacmom]

You mean the opinion that is shared by a dozen or so people on this board? I don't need research to know that there were people who realized that racism was wrong. Is that something that really needs to be defended?

Thanks, that’s what I thought.

 

[DeniseJH]

Thanks, that’s what I thought.

I don't know what you mean by that.

Do you believe that the majority of people in the 1930's believed that being racist was perfectly fine and acceptable? Do you have research to back up your opinion?