OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[Klayfish]

You don't know what it was like back then either, so your opinion is based through YOUR own lens. Do you believe everyone thought that racism was ok?

Nor do I pretend to know what it was like...hence why I won't psychoanalyze and judge what Kate Smith or George Washington knew, didn't know, believed, should have believed, felt, should have felt decades or centuries ago.

Not going to go down your rabbit hole with you. You've beaten this horse to death quite nicely, and yet are still kicking it.

 

[DeniseJH]

Nor do I pretend to know what it was like...hence why I won't psychoanalyze and judge what Kate Smith or George Washington knew, didn't know, believed, should have believed, felt, should have felt decades or centuries ago.

Not going to go down your rabbit hole with you. You've beaten this horse to death quite nicely, and yet are still kicking it.

I am? I'm expressing my opinion just like everybody else. You started this conversation with me, if you'll remember. You don't want to judge them, you think there are acceptable reasons to be a racist? That's you - not me. And I will express it, since that's what the topic is here in this post. You and I can certainly end our conversation here - since we both are well aware of the others opinion.

 

[penn19]

At least Rizzo still stands.... Still love his altercation with Stan Bohrman.... LOL

For now. It’s been defaced before and there was a call for it to be removed. Because....you guessed it. He was racist.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I'll explain it again - ....And yes, if someone was a racist- I will judge them. There is no excuse, there is no acceptable reason. (And they don't show a lot of those cartoons anymore for the exact same reason.)

yeah but Bugs Bunny is still adored and they made one or two of those cartoons

 

[Klayfish]

I am?

you think there are acceptable reasons to be a racist? That's you - not me.

Yes, you are beating your dead horse. Over and over. To anyone who comes in and gives a differing viewpoint.

Can you find a quote from me where I actually said that, or is that just another judgment on your part?

 

[DeniseJH]

Yes, you are beating your dead horse. Over and over. To anyone who comes in and gives a differing viewpoint.

Can you find a quote from me where I actually said that, or is that just another judgment on your part?

Judgement, no. It is a question. And if you don't think there are ever acceptable reasons to be a racist, then you must believe that in the 1930's those racists were wrong. Just as I believe.

How many times have you shared your opinion?

I'll share my opinion as often as I like, as are the others.

 

[mnrose]

But at what point does it not matter any more? Should it have been a "big deal" back then? Possibly, depending on what you're talking about. But people change. You've changed, I've changed, we've all changed. From our values to our morals to our ethics to our beliefs. Every one of us has changed to a certain degree. So at what point do our former beliefs no longer matter to what is going on today? Or should everyone be expected to apologize publicly for every "bad thing" we've done?

The question, for me, is whether you own up to what you did, admit that it was wrong, and that you've learned from it, or whether you lie about it. And, it depends on what "age" the alleged "youthful" indiscretion occurred. Was it when you were 13 or 23? Very different, IMO.

 

[sam_gordon]

The question, for me, is whether you own up to what you did, admit that it was wrong, and that you've learned from it, or whether you lie about it. And, it depends on what "age" the alleged "youthful" indiscretion occurred. Was it when you were 13 or 23? Very different, IMO.

Agree on all your points. But to who(m?) do you need to own up to? Just because it isn't on Youtube now doesn't mean this singer didn't apologize at some point or admit she was wrong. If you do something "bad" before you're in the public eye, once you're in the public eye, do you need to apologize again (not saying that's the case here, just in general)?

 

[luvsJack]

I am? I'm expressing my opinion just like everybody else. You started this conversation with me, if you'll remember. You don't want to judge them, you think there are acceptable reasons to be a racist? That's you - not me. And I will express it, since that's what the topic is here in this post. You and I can certainly end our conversation here - since we both are well aware of the others opinion.

No one is saying there are acceptable reasons to be racist. No one is defending anything. The simple fact of “it was a different world then” is what was said. And that is a true statement.

No one here (or at least I don’t think) is singing these songs now and saying “it’s ok because they were written in the 30’s”. Most sane people would not do that. It would be wrong. But you cannot pluck any person out of the 30’s and judge them by standards today. As a woman, I know that during that time there was treatment of women that I would be appalled at today but I don’t judge the ignorance of the men then by what I know now and what I Hope most men know now.

The 30’s were a hard time for everyone. If women worked they were accused of taking the jobs away from family men, if blacks moved from one area to another they too were thought to be taking jobs and resources. Whites would move out of their neighborhood if a black family moved in. They didn’t want to live by them, work with them or their kids to go to school with them. Separate schools, seperate water fountains, seperate everything. Were they right? No. Should they have known better? Yes. Why didn’t they? Because they were ignorant of the fact that the black family moving next door was no different than them.

There were extremes and the KKK and lynchings and all those horrible things. Those things are different and yes, they knew better and most people probably didn’t support such terrible actions. But that is a whole different type of racism than most here are talking about.

If we continue to judge the people in history by our standards today, what will be left of our history? If we remove every statue, every book, every song, every movie, etc that represents, honors, shows, or was made by someone in our history that showed any racism, sexism or any other ism, what will we have left exactly? Surely not the place that this very message board honors. Take a hard look at all the racist stereotypes in Disney films! And not just Song of the South by a long shot! There is a video on YouTube that shows all of the stereotypical/racist moments in Disney films. Take a look if you haven’t seen it. Many Asian and black stereotypes. And one thing said again and again, these films were a product of their time.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

In 1937 the legendary Judy Garland recorded “All God’s Chillun Got Rhythm” and in 1941 she donned blackface for a minstrel show sequence in “Babes On Broadway “. Should we now ban “The Wizard Of Oz” and “Meet Me In St Louis”?

If whoever owns the rights to those films decides to ban them, it's quite all right with me. "We" don't get to decide.

For now. [statue of Frank Rizzo] It’s been defaced before and there was a call for it to be removed. Because....you guessed it. He was racist.

Well, there's plenty of evidence of his racism while he was mayor, not just in his distant past. He's THE main reason Philadelphia languished in the 1970's and was considered a third-rate big city.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

I wonder if cult film director John Waters will re-edit his "celluloid atrocity" Multiple Maniacs to remove Kate Smith's God Bless America from the final scene.

 

[LSUmiss]

Overly sensitive... is putting it mildly... people look for some way to be offended, they dig and dig until they find something to be offended by, or some slight that may or may not have occurred, you can not change what happened 200 years ago or 100 years ago or 80 years ago or 10 year even last year... move on people to making today better....today and tomorrow and the next day should be the focus...

Come on Folks... stopping looking back and pointing fingers.... Look back and learn from it and keep moving forward... to make today better... there is nothing that we can do about the past, and that's were it should stay in the past... not that we should forget to past and the mistake that where made and we need to learn from them.. Quit dredging them up over and over its like beating a dead horse what good is it really doing? ... It really does more harm than good, it keep people at odds with each other, and only continues that type of thinking... it creates more fighting, and harsh feelings...Instead of using that energy and time for finger pointing why not use it to the betterment of everyone's future...

We only have today and tomorrow is not promised... so look forward to the future for our kids, grandkids and all the kids to come...

Look at a playground... there are children of all colors, family back grounds, religious belief, they all play together everyday, if there is a problem normally they work it out, and going on playing... If we all looked at the world through the eyes of the children... the world would be a better place...

You know...I bet more ppl would be willing to look forward & stop looking at the atrocities of the past if things weren’t STILL happening.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

Nope, nope, nope. I liked Kate Smiths' rendition and it gave me goose bumps every time it was played. Eric Lindros laying unconscious on the ice because he couldn't watch out for 200+ lb Scott Stevens in a crucial game 7 sinks the Flyers. Pelle Lindbergh making an uncharacteristically bad choice and getting himself killed sinks the Flyers. Ed Snider having a strangle hold on the team for decades sank them.

Back on topic, I still stand by what I initially felt. The Kate Smith rendition of the song had a special place in my heart. After having read the article, my mind hasn't changed one bit. If that makes me a bad person, so be it I guess. I don't know what her true feelings were, I'm not going to guess. She lived in a very different world than we did, one which I don't truly understand (only read in history books).

Tis fine with me that you like the song.

As for me, by the early 90's, I would have preferred Roseanne Barr's abomination.

 

[sam_gordon]

You know...I bet more ppl would be willing to look forward & stop looking at the atrocities of the past if things weren’t STILL happening.

Because there are problems now, lets look at what people did in the past and fix those? That makes sense? I would think the better response would be to fix the problems happening NOW.

 

[Klayfish]

I wonder if cult film director John Waters will re-edit his "celluloid atrocity" Multiple Maniacs to remove Kate Smith's God Bless America from the final scene.

View attachment 396567

Wow, I'm going to give you bonus points for digging that deep. I had zero clue about that.

Tis fine with me that you like the song.

As for me, by the early 90's, I would have preferred Roseanne Barr's abomination.

By the early 90's, the Flyers would have been better off if Roseanne Barr sang and then suited up and went into goal.

 

[LSUmiss]

You seem very clear in your conviction that you want to judge historical figures by your personal viewpoints, using 2019 societal norms. That's perfectly fine if that's what suits you. Just understand that not everyone agrees with you. History is just that...history. Kate Smith lived in a VERY different world, one in which none of us were a part. George Washington lived in a world which none of us could even fathom. If you want to judge them harshly for what you feel should have been the societal norms all those years ago, that's your decision. By those standards, we should judge many older Disney movies harshly. Heck, I should judge Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, and the Three Stooges harshly because of content in some of their shows. Sorry, those were my childhood heroes, I won't taint my view of them.

A lot of ppl do & that’s part of the reason they aren’t shown on TV anymore.

 

[LSUmiss]

Because there are problems now, lets look at what people did in the past and fix those? That makes sense? I would think the better response would be to fix the problems happening NOW.

No, but you’re asking ppl who were the victims of these things to just get over it when much of it is still happening.

 

[tazdev3225]

I have been trying to stay away from this thread because I am a long time Flyers fan and a Kate Smith fan. She was my grandfather's favorite singer so that meant something to me. That being said I think it is sad that a woman is being called a racist for 2 songs out of over 3000 she recorded. Further proof to me that she was not a racist is that when no one else would allow Josephine Baker, a singer and activist, on TV Kate Smith did. Josephine Baker was a controversial figure at that time. Smith was the 1st person to have her on an American TV show.

I will not condemn someone as being a racist when I do not know them or what is in their heart. I will not judge someone of my grandparents generation by todays standards because standards change and evolve. By today's standards my grandparents would be called racist and I know that they were not. They just said things that were accepted in their time and Kate Smith was the same generation and age as they were.

 

[luvsJack]

You know...I bet more ppl would be willing to look forward & stop looking at the atrocities of the past if things weren’t STILL happening.

So let’s look forward and change the things we can. We can’t change the past.

 

[Klayfish]

A lot of ppl do & that’s part of the reason they aren’t shown on TV anymore.

I have no clue why they aren't shown as much. It could be that. It could be that those cartoons/shows are now anywhere from 50-90 years old and just don't have the same attraction to kids. It could be that back then there was a very limited choice of cartoons and shows, now there are hundreds and hundreds of cartoons (including online). Could be a combination of all these factors.

Regardless, doesn't matter to me. I love all the old Looney Toons and the Three Stooges, and to a lesser degree Tom and Jerry (especially the years when their producer was the same one who did a lot of the Looney Toons, Chuck Jones). And for the record, Bugs isn't a racist.